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It's the fact that you said it in reply to a quote that explains that he didn't do that, that is confusing me. ;) Greg stays away from the issues of science that 1) aren't relevant to the story and 2) he isn't good at. (And again, you keep making it sound like he was pushing sci-fi explanations. He wasn't; he was writing what was planned, how it was planned. More or less. :P)

 

BTW, this goes for both Mjol and Iblis, please remember our rules about all-caps and the like.

Edited by bonesiii

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Greg stays away from the issues of science that 1) aren't relevant to the story and 2) he isn't good at. (And again, you keep making it sound like he was pushing sci-fi explanations. He wasn't; he was writing what was planned, how it was planned. More or less. :P)

 

Maybe so, but he has said it was a Sci-Fi, which is patently not what he delivered when I look at say a Wikipedia article on Sci-Fi, Fantasy, or Science Fantasy, or when I look at what definitions I get from Google for those terms. I may have missed it but I don't believe you have actually offered any different definitions (unless one counts saying that it's ill-defined & therefore I'm not wrong, because there might be a definition out there which would indicate that Bionicle is Sci-Fi).

 

It's a Science Fantasy. Not Sci-Fi, Fantasy. According to the Wikipedia articles they blend into each other, but unless someone can show me why letting something in that has an alter-physics which aren't compatible with present understandings of the universe; it's what some of us call 'magic' (I've already talked about what specific type it is). & Sci-Fi can't have magic that isn't ultimately a sufficiently advanced technology with respect to the laws of our universe. Sci-Fi is about speculative technologies and theories;
 
If I create an alternate universe which contains things that simply aren't compatible with present science, then it doesn't matter if my story focused on "How they could use mini-loves (which are love, love isn't from a chemical reaction et cetera, in this universe it is a fundamental particle which happens to be the mirror image of a photon, sometimes) in a new found way to create warp fields to change the way space folds allowing me to go greater distance than if I were travelling in a conventional manner." wouldn't matter as the premise of  my story is violating what might possible by having something like mini-loves.
 
This shouldn't even matter as Bionicle doesn't offer any speculative techologies in it's universe, so whether it has magic or alternate physics, still don't matter. Many of the reasons I've listed are sufficient in their own right not to call Bionicle Sci-Fi. It's a Science Fantasy.
 
As it is, If everything that has been said in this thread now isn't going to convince you, then I have no interest in trying any more.
My belief is that: "Bionicle is a Sci-Fi" is wrong, if it is appended with "... and a Fantasy" it still isn't strictly correct as  that isn't synonymous with Science Fantasy but it's more helpful than saying it's just a Sci-Fi, what would be best though is to say it is a Science Fantasy.
 

BTW, this goes for both Mjol and Iblis, please remember our rules about all-caps and the like.

 

Noted.

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In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


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Maybe so, but he has said it was a Sci-Fi, which is patently not what he delivered when I look at say a Wikipedia article on Sci-Fi, Fantasy, or Science Fantasy, or when I look at what definitions I get from Google for those terms. I may have missed it but I don't believe you have actually offered any different definitions (unless one counts saying that it's ill-defined & therefore I'm not wrong, because there might be a definition out there which would indicate that Bionicle is Sci-Fi).

Iblis, I've had this feeling from over several posts of yours, perhaps my fault due to skimming, but I may as well bring it up now -- I say a feeling because your wording is just shy of being clearly saying this that I still can't be sure. So... just in case again; it sounds like you may have missed (or it didn't sink in) what I said about Boidoh's quote:

 

 

1) BIONICLE was a mystical story that I turned into a sci-fi story.

 

False. BIONICLE was always a sci-fi story - it was always about beings who were supposed to be (or were) living inside a giant robot. That was from day one. You just didn't know it at the start. And it was governed by a story team, I did not have the power to change its genre.

 

The vibe I'm getting is that you think he means PURE sci-fi here. (But in actuality he had defined it himself, as I've pointed out several times already, as science fantasy, and at about the time he defined the fantasy aspects under the common "science you don't understand" definition.) You do understand he was just adopting the terms of the questioner here, right? He's saying, the main parts that people thought were changes from the original plans (giant robot, AIs, etc.) were NOT changes but were always intended as some of the sci-fi side of the ingredients.

 

Always remember that Greg tends to give highly, highly shortened answers that MUST be read in the context of everything else he said. :)

 

Now if that's not what you meant, pardon. But had I had more time I would have said something along these lines just as a precaution right after Boidoh's post, and didn't have that time. :shrugs:

 

Anywho, over the course of this week I'll try to go back and read everything posted here in detail. I may send most of my reply to you, Iblis, as a PM though because it did get way more in-depth than this topic is really intended for. :)

 

And pre-emptive apologies that as a result of being forced to skim I have no doubt misunderstood you completely lol.

 

Edit: Most of the rest of this latest post oddly seems to be saying you somehow think I was saying Bionicle is sci-fi and NOT science fantasy. But I clearly said the opposite; fishers quoted me from years ago saying it was sci-fant, and I recognized on page 1 that that's a misconception. How you could think that I have no idea, unless it is cleared up by the above. Perhaps you were just skimming too. :P (But while I have a good reason to skim tangential posts to keep up with some of the others, and not end up with a single late monster post, everybody else reading here should probably take the time to read carefully what's been said already before replying. Okay? :) )

Edited by bonesiii

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

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Anywho, over the course of this week I'll try to go back and read everything posted here in detail. I may send most of my reply to you, Iblis, as a PM though because it did get way more in-depth than this topic is really intended for. :)

This is not good, because other users won't be able to see your reasoning.

TOO LATE.

IT WAS ALWAYS TOO LATE.

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Anywho, over the course of this week I'll try to go back and read everything posted here in detail. I may send most of my reply to you, Iblis, as a PM though because it did get way more in-depth than this topic is really intended for. :)

This is not good, because other users won't be able to see your reasoning.
I second this. We've come this far, we might as well end this, and publicly, to assure that it wont come back to haunt us in days to come.

 

Bonesiii will be akin to that of Alexios Komnenos, standing patiently in front of his Roman throne as he spends hours on end on top of countless days and sleepless nights politely and professionally debating against the Bogomils atop feet with gout; such amount of hard work will cause tumors in his feet and heart and swelling of the throat and we will remember his life as one of fruitful dedication and loyalty to his people. Bless you Bonesiii, we knew thee not well enough and you will be dearly missed. :)

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I was also thinking maybe we could extend long conversations like that into blog entries (on my blog), so everybody could see them (plus continue them). Might be a bit awkward as a topic, so yeah. :shrugs:

 

Anyways, now I want to do Earth and Stone, then Ice and Water... I think I'll do those two together, but I wanted to do something else between Fire/Plasma and those. Not genres -- ongoing complex discussions on a misconception are best finished up before posting something on them (though if I do that as a blog entry, I may include a draft for analysis). I'll be looking over the suggestions so far to pick one, but any yall think should go next, feel free to suggest. :)

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I don't know if this is a common misconception, but is Mata Nui (the island) part of the Matoran Universe?

 

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Yes and no: it is not within the MU, but can be accessed by MU inhabitants.

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Idk if this has been mentioned before, but I believe these things should be included and clarified:

•Makuta can only use one power at a time

Actually, he can use only one of his 42 Kraata powers at a time. Whether he can use his Mask of Shadows in conjunction with one of them is something I don't recall. I think he can.

•how Takanuva became a Toa by only putting on the MoL

•how Takanuva got ressurected

These aren't really misconceptions. They would be better dealt with by a list of the appropriate Greg answers/story quotes on the subject. I've actually debated whether questions dealing with Av-Matoran, Toa, and Bohrok should be emphasized in a topic, since we seem to have so many of those. Then again, we keep having the Voya Nui argument every 6 months or so lol, so yarr.

 

Misconception: The map (in Makuta's Guide to the universe) provides an accurate depiction of the size of Voya Nui.

•exactly what is needed for a being to be revived in heaven/###### (limbo?) the Red Star

I would suggest consulting the Official Red Star Guide.

 

•MU characters are 80% machine 20% organic and SM vice versa

85/15 and vice versa.

•Takanuva is the only Toa of light EVER in the prime universe

•Destinies can vary across alt. universes

These are actually true.

•The Great Beings are meatbags and hail from SM. They arent humans.

Meatbags is questionable, but otherwise, this is true.  

 

And in any event, that is the definition where you can have a misconception. If a bookstore puts Shannara in the sci-fi category, it's not really a misconception if a fan of Shannara calls it fantasy because of the magic that's at the forefront (if anything they'd be more accurate). It's just a difference of opinion of labeling convention among outsiders to the story. Only the authors actually determine what the intent of their story is, so an opinion trying to guess at that intent can be objectively inaccurate.

In every library/bookstore I've seen Bionicle in, it has been categorized as juvenile fiction. Which is actually a broader category than SF/Fantasy combined. :shrugs: 

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That's not so much a matter of a misconception but of semantics. It's often referred to as MU or MU-related by fans as shorthand, since it's made of protodermis like the MU and for 1000 years inhabited by them, and is physically connected to the robot. Same goes for Voya Nui, minus the connected part for some times.

 

Mjol, it would frankly be weird to post a new, non-revivable topic to continue tangential conversation from here, especially since you gave no reason to do it in your post. A blog entry could be posted in at any future point (basically revivable), and is more in line with past practice for such things. I don't see what difference it would make otherwise. Of course, any later conversation could just go here, but since it doesn't really matter, I'll go with blog.

 

And on that note, I'm halfway through the (four!) pages of this in my draft. I'm putting some of them for a reply that will go here to on-topic matters, and the genre stuff for the blog entry. Stay tuned for the link. :)

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

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Just read the Fire/Plasma article, and I'd like to add that plasmas don't have to be hot; they can be as cool as room temperature (and safe to touch). Whether Toa, Rahkshi or Bohrok-Kal of Plasma can generate cold plasmas is another question.

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Just read the Fire/Plasma article, and I'd like to add that plasmas don't have to be hot; they can be as cool as room temperature (and safe to touch). Whether Toa, Rahkshi or Bohrok-Kal of Plasma can generate cold plasmas is another question.

These things are meant to be brief so all possible technical tangents won't be explored. That is information people can look up on their own if they're interested. :)

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The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

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*allows self to DP* Okay, here is my "catchup" reply, plus the link to the blog entry for the genre tangent.

 

 

 

 

Well, at least the storyline and dialogue of MNOLG is canon; it's been referenced in Takanuva's Blog, BIONICLEstory.com, Toa Nuva Blog, and a few other places. Like I said, details may not be entirely accurate.


It would be better to just say that MNOG is canon unless contradicted elsewhere. The storyline and dialogue would actually be prime candidates to be so contradicted. It's not so simple that you can pick one sweeping category from the game and assume that all of that is canon.


A note to the continuing "first Toa" discussion. I'm really not sure why this one would really need addressed, actually. I honestly don't recall hearing anybody being confused over the timing of it. Has anybody actually seen that? It's pretty easily cleared up by just reading the BS01 Toa page (the History section):

http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Toa#History
 

 

I got one:

The Voyatoran are the Matoran versions of the Toa Metru.

Can't get enough of that one...


I don't seem to recall -ever- seeing this one.
 

 

 

Glatorian are robots


Already covered


For the record, I DO want people to post "repeat" misconceptions in here. Seems weird as normally repetition is spam, but in this case it can help show that a particular misconception is common. (But you don't HAVE to.)
 

 

Not sure if this has been said or not, but people saying that the Great Spirit being a Metallic Titan was a later last minuter addition utterly annoys the heck out of me. We have sufficient amounts data and proof that it was planned since (for Bionicle), the time before time; and yet people deny themselves this truth. :lol:


Yeah, I keep running into this too (just did in a current topic). I'll add it to the list.

Edited by bonesiii

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  • 2 weeks later...

"A glitch made the Matoran sentient"

 

There are two issues here; the cause of the change, and the nature of the change. Let's put off the second as that's a trickier one.

 

The cause 'misconception' actually happened because it was once canon, but Greg Farshtey later retconned it in favor of the new explanation (after much discussion with fans) -- that a Great Being who went into hiding in the Matoran Universe actually caused the change. Exactly why has not (at time of writing, to my knowledge) been finally confirmed, but one suggestion Greg has given credence to is the idea that this Great Being would not be able to blend in well with beings that were not fully sapient as he was.

 

The other issue is one of terminology, though this can be just semantics (however, I have seen it be a more involved misconception often).

 

That is that in the official Bionicle terminology as defined by Greg, "sentient" just means self-aware and refers even to higher animals, like in the real world a dog, or a Rahi in Bionicle. A dog is intelligent (compared to a plant :P), can learn, can imagine, can solve problems, etc. and there can be varying levels to that. Matoran were definitely meant to be sentient, but not "something beyond." Now in some story franchises, especially sci-fi, it has become popular to use both "sentient" and even "self-aware" as shorthand for that something, but this doesn't actually make a lot of sense, and in any case is not how Bionicle uses the term.

 

The term Greg uses for that something is "sapient", meaning wisdom, as in of a human level.

 

It's difficult to pin down exactly what it means, but we have two main clues. First, a Great Being named Angonce noticed that the MU characters were sacrificing themselves for a greater cause and evidently saw this as proof that they had changed beyond their original programming, to become truly alive like him. Second, the change enabled some to choose evil (especially Makuta), so it seems it involved a granting of something like freewill.

 

A lesser known aspect of this is that at one point, Greg stated that the Great Beings actually did intend for the Matoran (etc.) to be sapient in some senses, just not in others. So we traditionally call what they were "partial sapience" (or words to that effect) -- that is, they were not just "sentient" like a dog, but somewhere in between -- and what they gained "full sapience."

The reason I heard was that Velika was conducting an experiment to see how fully sapient beings would work, or giving them sapience as a "gift," I've heard both ways.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The greatest misconceptions amoungst parents. "Ok, son, I'll get you one of those robots." - Every parent who bought their 7 year old a Bionicle

 

Another would be that Vahki are living.

 

Another would be that the blue characters are girls. When I was little, I didn't know Gali was a girl. (I was 7 or something)

 

Oh, and Bionicle=Hero Factory.

 

Can't get enough of that one.

Edited by moamahrimatoro
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cringe

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Rahkshi are living creatures.

 

Incorrect; they are suits of armour controlled by a Kraata with the same ability. A Kraata exposed to Energized Protodermis becomes an inanimate, robotic suit of armour another Kraata can control.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Where is this from?
 

Note that contrary to another misconception I've seen going around, all Bohrok were once Av-Matoran. None were made just as Bohrok from the start. There are theories as to why, but that's beyond the scope of this answer. I will probably do an answer about major Bohrok-related misconceptions at some point that may cover it.

 
Is this a LMB Greg answer? I don't recall this from anywhere else, so...?

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I don't recall, but it came up in a recent topic, and the BS01 Bohrok page says it. :shrugs:

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

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Bonesiii, your latest post left out the Rahkshi, which are also worth a mention as a inanimate suit for an 'organic' creature.

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Where is this from?

 

Note that contrary to another misconception I've seen going around, all Bohrok were once Av-Matoran. None were made just as Bohrok from the start. There are theories as to why, but that's beyond the scope of this answer. I will probably do an answer about major Bohrok-related misconceptions at some point that may cover it.

 

Is this a LMB Greg answer? I don't recall this from anywhere else, so...?

 

The Bohrok's origin was revealed in a BIONICLE book, actually. I don't remember which one it was, but I think it was Swamp of Secrets. The Toa actually saw it happening to a group of Av-Matoran trying to escape the Makuta.

Remember Artwork III?

It was the best of times.

It was the worst of times.

 

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Bonesiii, your latest post left out the Rahkshi, which are also worth a mention as a inanimate suit for an 'organic' creature.

Well, they're more of a strange and poorly understood thing, and the weirdness of the Bohrok only came up because the Bohrok themselves are robotic, which was relevent to the basic idea of a mixture. Just discussing those things made that answer unusually long so I didn't want to get into the exceptions of every possible species. And we don't know what the remaining nature of the control of the suit is; do robotics control it? Or something similar to organics? Maybe even organics that just no longer have a brain. So, I think it might be best to do an answer about common Bohrok myths and another about common Rahkshi myths later.

 

 

Where is this from?

 

Note that contrary to another misconception I've seen going around, all Bohrok were once Av-Matoran. None were made just as Bohrok from the start. There are theories as to why, but that's beyond the scope of this answer. I will probably do an answer about major Bohrok-related misconceptions at some point that may cover it.

 

Is this a LMB Greg answer? I don't recall this from anywhere else, so...?

 

 

The Bohrok's origin was revealed in a BIONICLE book, actually. I don't remember which one it was, but I think it was Swamp of Secrets. The Toa actually saw it happening to a group of Av-Matoran trying to escape the Makuta.

 

That's not what she's asking. We know Bohrok now come from Av-Matoran for sure, but the question is if the original Bohrok really were Av-Matoran as BS01 says. Methinks it's a yes; that's most consistent with Nuparu's theory and the Bahrag's line, after all. But I haven't seen a Greg quote directly stating it so it's a fair question. I might need to add an "I think" into the answer if we can't get this cleared up soon.
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Nice idea, especially considering all the fans, old and new, who'll become interested in Bionicle again next year. I have a few suggestions:

 

- There is romance in Bionicle (Matau makes a few lustful comments towards Nokama in Legends of Metru Nui, and of course there's the Huki/Maku thing in that one Bohrok animation).

- Roodaka was killed in Web of Shadows (it sure looks like Vakama killed her, and even more so when Teridax grabbed her with his shadow hand [after all, this same hand killed Nidhiki, Krekka, and Nivawk])

- The Toa Mata/Nuva were the first Toa (anyone looking back at the beginning of Bionicle [i.e. 2001] would probably think this; of course, the Toa Metru came before the Mata, and even then there was Helryx, Lesovikk, etc.)

 

A) Yes, more evidence includes a dark hunter who became one to find his love and Samand says that there is a woman he loved who died.

B) NO! Makuta teleported her away! She had a whole Toa Haga revival and Federation of Fear thing.

C) I'm not sure what you mean..... Helryx was the first, is that what you said?

 

No, no, no, you misunderstand. The things I listed are the misconceptions - the comments in parentheses are why they're wrong.

 

A) No, there isn't romance in Bionicle - at least in the Matoran Universe. There is on Bara Magna (hence the Sahmad thing), and that Dark Hunter was looking for his best friend, not the love of his life. (By the way, ~T1S~, I never once thought that Agori/Glatorian did not love; I just wasn't thinking when I initially typed that. As you say, there is no romance in the Matoran Universe, but there is on Bara Magna, Bota Magna, Spherus Magna, etc.)

B) Again, you just misunderstood what I was saying. It's an easy misconception to have if you've never read the serials.

C) Helryx was first, followed by others, and in terms of storyline significance the Toa Mata were right near the end (even though they were created hundreds of thousands of years earlier).

Sorry, confused about what you said, thanks

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I've got one: all blue characters are female. I've seen Boggarak/Gahlok/Vezok/Takadox/what-have-you assumed female way too many times to count. Also the reverse: all non-blue characters are male (slightly more understandable given a dearth of non-blue females in set form).

 

:mirunu: Lewa0111 Nuva :mirunu:

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Books are more canon than the movies.

 

Nope. Unless indicated otherwise, movies are more canon than the books. While Web of Shadows has some exceptions to yonder rule *cough* Rahaga propellers*cough*, it's generally not best to assume that the movies are less canon. Especially in the case of MoL, which had a Hapka novelisation, and books by Hapka are semi-canon. 

Edited by fishers64
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Just read the Fire/Plasma article, and I'd like to add that plasmas don't have to be hot; they can be as cool as room temperature (and safe to touch). Whether Toa, Rahkshi or Bohrok-Kal of Plasma can generate cold plasmas is another question.

These things are meant to be brief so all possible technical tangents won't be explored. That is information people can look up on their own if they're interested. :)

 

I was wondering about that. I was thinking in my Colab Su is any type of plasma not just the hot stuff but anything in the 4th state of mater. (Much easier to differentiate Fire from it if I do that  :P )

 

I do have something that maybe a misconception. The movies depictions of the physical appearance of the characters I.E. Masks having slightly unique appearances but it still can be seen that it's a Hau, Pakari, Ect and the armor having a well defined Abdominal muscle thing. Are how the characters are meant to look? I remember Greg said this is true and the sets are reasonable facsimiles of the character (Thanks to the fact they are lego pieces  :D )

 

Also The island of Mata Nui is it composed of Protodermis? I ask seeing how Protodermis is a ore for the Onu-Koro miners and I would assume as it is a cloaking device it would be made of normal matter.

Bionicle is amazing.

Legends Never Die!

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Just read the Fire/Plasma article, and I'd like to add that plasmas don't have to be hot; they can be as cool as room temperature (and safe to touch). Whether Toa, Rahkshi or Bohrok-Kal of Plasma can generate cold plasmas is another question.

These things are meant to be brief so all possible technical tangents won't be explored. That is information people can look up on their own if they're interested. :)

 

I was wondering about that. I was thinking in my Colab Su is any type of plasma not just the hot stuff but anything in the 4th state of mater. (Much easier to differentiate Fire from it if I do that  :P )

 

I do have something that maybe a misconception. The movies depictions of the physical appearance of the characters I.E. Masks having slightly unique appearances but it still can be seen that it's a Hau, Pakari, Ect and the armor having a well defined Abdominal muscle thing. Are how the characters are meant to look? I remember Greg said this is true and the sets are reasonable facsimiles of the character (Thanks to the fact they are lego pieces  :D )

 

Also The island of Mata Nui is it composed of Protodermis? I ask seeing how Protodermis is a ore for the Onu-Koro miners and I would assume as it is a cloaking device it would be made of normal matter.

 

It might be.That is very plausible. 

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Just read the Fire/Plasma article, and I'd like to add that plasmas don't have to be hot; they can be as cool as room temperature (and safe to touch). Whether Toa, Rahkshi or Bohrok-Kal of Plasma can generate cold plasmas is another question.

These things are meant to be brief so all possible technical tangents won't be explored. That is information people can look up on their own if they're interested. :)

 

I was wondering about that. I was thinking in my Colab Su is any type of plasma not just the hot stuff but anything in the 4th state of mater. (Much easier to differentiate Fire from it if I do that  :P )

 

I do have something that maybe a misconception. The movies depictions of the physical appearance of the characters I.E. Masks having slightly unique appearances but it still can be seen that it's a Hau, Pakari, Ect and the armor having a well defined Abdominal muscle thing. Are how the characters are meant to look? I remember Greg said this is true and the sets are reasonable facsimiles of the character (Thanks to the fact they are lego pieces  :D )

 

Also The island of Mata Nui is it composed of Protodermis? I ask seeing how Protodermis is a ore for the Onu-Koro miners and I would assume as it is a cloaking device it would be made of normal matter.

 

It might be.That is very plausible. 

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence. :)

 

Still I'd like a more definite answer. Bones can you shed any light on this? If your not too busy of course. ;)

Bionicle is amazing.

Legends Never Die!

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I'm really tired right now, but: 

 

1. Yes, plasma is "anything in the 4th state of matter". It's a super-hot ionized gas. 

 

2. The sets do come first in precedence in judging a character's appearance. The most common example of this is the Rahaga - canonically, they look like their set appearance, not like their appearance in the Web of Shadows movie. 

 

3. Yes, everything on Mata Nui, except for the air and water, is made of protodermis. That's because the island is a result of an EP spill. How EP became artificial proto is beyond my thinking at the moment, but it's probably an emergency activation of the Great Spirit Robot's camouflage system.

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I do have something that maybe a misconception. The movies depictions of the physical appearance of the characters I.E. Masks having slightly unique appearances but it still can be seen that it's a Hau, Pakari, Ect and the armor having a well defined Abdominal muscle thing. Are how the characters are meant to look? I remember Greg said this is true and the sets are reasonable facsimiles of the character (Thanks to the fact they are lego pieces  :D )

The movies are basically more canon for the little details, the sets more canon for the big basics. Rahaga helicopter blades being less canon is a major one. That one gives us the basic principle that if the movie form looks essentially like the set and would seem to work about the same way, the movie version's can be taken as canon, in essence, but any major contradiction between the two, go with the set (and imagine a more movie-styled version of the set; like imagine Rhotuka launchers like the Toa Hordika's there, and riding on controlled Rhotuka under their feet rather than helicopter blades on the back). But the little details like quality of the face of course remain like the movie.

 

However, there's some "movie universe, comic universe" type explanations used in a few cases, and fans are free to imagine it being so for others. Basically, there's usually no need to worry about it. :P

 

Also The island of Mata Nui is it composed of Protodermis? I ask seeing how Protodermis is a ore for the Onu-Koro miners and I would assume as it is a cloaking device it would be made of normal matter.

It's all protodermis. The reason for the reference to mining "protodermis" is that some very important or basic types, namely liquid protodermis (protowater), purified liquid protodermis, and energized protodermis are often referred to just as protodermis for short. EP was referred to that way in the Nuva-ization comic.

 

It is unclear which type they mined, but EP is unlikely because blobs of the mined type could be held safely (according to MNOG2). The name would make the most sense with purified protodermis, which might have power-generation capabilities for their machinery, but the "stuff of life" designation could make sense with protowater, since the normal water on Mata Nui was real water, which they can drink but possibly isn't as long-term nutritious for protodermic beings as protowater.

 

As for the disguise feature, depending on how advanced the visitors are, they won't likely be doing molecular analyses, yanno? To the eyes, protodermis imitates normal matter closely. It wouldn't make a lot of sense for EP to result in a non-protodermic island, although it might be possible. And any visitors that do come would generally be attacked by the Bohrok, trying to capture them to add them to the swarm and prevent them from leaving the island to tell about it to others on their planet, so more advanced ones' knowledge that it isn't normal matter would be kept from the populace at large too (presuming they're not so advanced or powerful that they defeat the Bohrok).

 

Also, it's best to refer to the island as a camouflage system, since "cloaking device" implies an invisibility power, and the giant robot almost certainly has one of those too for when it's landing and taking off. So doesn't make sense to call both things by the same term. :)

Edited by bonesiii
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I'm really tired right now, but: 

 

1. Yes, plasma is "anything in the 4th state of matter". It's a super-hot ionized gas. 

 

2. The sets do come first in precedence in judging a character's appearance. The most common example of this is the Rahaga - canonically, they look like their set appearance, not like their appearance in the Web of Shadows movie. 

 

3. Yes, everything on Mata Nui, except for the air and water, is made of protodermis. That's because the island is a result of an EP spill. How EP became artificial proto is beyond my thinking at the moment, but it's probably an emergency activation of the Great Spirit Robot's camouflage system.

 

1. Plasma need not be super hot just hot enough to enter the 4th state of mater. We have tvs with it and those lightning ball things that you'd find at a spencers gifts are plasma as well.

 

Funny thing if I may go off topic. You know the fire trails from Back to the Future the Delorean left? Someone who tried to apply true physics to it said that the Plasma of those flames would be in the teens on the Kalvin scale. Keep in mind on that temp scale 0 degrees Kalvin is absolute Zero. 

 

 

I do have something that maybe a misconception. The movies depictions of the physical appearance of the characters I.E. Masks having slightly unique appearances but it still can be seen that it's a Hau, Pakari, Ect and the armor having a well defined Abdominal muscle thing. Are how the characters are meant to look? I remember Greg said this is true and the sets are reasonable facsimiles of the character (Thanks to the fact they are lego pieces  :D )

The movies are basically more canon for the little details, the sets more canon for the big basics. Rahaga helicopter blades being less canon is a major one. That one gives us the basic principle that if the movie form looks essentially like the set and would seem to work about the same way, the movie version's can be taken as canon, in essence, but any major contradiction between the two, go with the set (and imagine a more movie-styled version of the set; like imagine Rhotuka launchers like the Toa Hordika's there, and riding on controlled Rhotuka under their feet rather than helicopter blades on the back). But the little details like quality of the face of course remain like the movie.

 

However, there's some "movie universe, comic universe" type explanations used in a few cases, and fans are free to imagine it being so for others. Basically, there's usually no need to worry about it. :P

 

Also The island of Mata Nui is it composed of Protodermis? I ask seeing how Protodermis is a ore for the Onu-Koro miners and I would assume as it is a cloaking device it would be made of normal matter.

It's all protodermis. The reason for the reference to mining "protodermis" is that some very important or basic types, namely liquid protodermis (protowater), purified liquid protodermis, and energized protodermis are often referred to just as protodermis for short. EP was referred to that way in the Nuva-ization comic.

 

It is unclear which type they mined, but EP is unlikely because blobs of the mined type could be held safely (according to MNOG2). The name would make the most sense with purified protodermis, which might have power-generation capabilities for their machinery, but the "stuff of life" designation could make sense with protowater, since the normal water on Mata Nui was real water, which they can drink but possibly isn't as long-term nutritious for protodermic beings as protowater.

 

As for the disguise feature, depending on how advanced the visitors are, they won't likely be doing molecular analyses, yanno? To the eyes, protodermis imitates normal matter closely. It wouldn't make a lot of sense for EP to result in a non-protodermic island, although it might be possible. And any visitors that do come would generally be attacked by the Bohrok, trying to capture them to add them to the swarm and prevent them from leaving the island to tell about it to others on their planet, so more advanced ones' knowledge that it isn't normal matter would be kept from the populace at large too (presuming they're not so advanced or powerful that they defeat the Bohrok).

 

Also, it's best to refer to the island as a camouflage system, since "cloaking device" implies an invisibility power, and the giant robot almost certainly has one of those too for when it's landing and taking off. So doesn't make sense to call both things by the same term. :)

 

 

Ah I see. Yeah the cloak description is a bit off isn't it. :)

 

Your right even if they had the tech they would be more concerened with the Bohrok. Hmm this brings a new question to light. Can the Krana control 100% organic beings? I know Kanohi wearers are but what of those who don't? Can a Agori be affected by it? :bigeek:  

Bionicle is amazing.

Legends Never Die!

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Huh, i never knew that Bohrok would attack any foreigners if they got on the camoflauge system of the Great Spirits face. That is some story potential.

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