Naming the Unnamed Masks

[Regitnui]

Kanohi Hau, Kanohi Garai, Kanohi Calix, Mask of Growth? While many Kanohi have Matoran names, many don't, most noticeably 4 of the Toa Hagah's Kanohi. So, using Tolkien's Matoran Dictionary and a little bit of thought, I've designed proper Matoran Names for the Kanohi that are Masks. Some already had names in the Dictionary, but aren't canon. What I'd like to know is if enough of the BZ-Koronans also think that these masks should have Matoran names and whether these names should be canonized.

 

(Best viewed on a computer)

 

BS01 Description (Mask of " ")         New Name (Kanohi " ")         Translation (Etymology)

 

Mask of Clairvoyance (Toa Gaaki)       Kanohi Inihu                            "Far-seeing"

Mask of Emulation (Toa Pouks)           Kanohi Mutuku                        "Emulation" (Already in the Dictionary)

Mask of Growth (Toa Bomonga)          Kanohi Awai                            "Growth" (Already in the Dictionary)

Mask of Rahi Control (Toa Kualus)      Kanohi Marahk                        "Control/Mastery of Wild-Thing"

Mask of Charisma (Trinuma)               Kanohi Mutatu                         "Charisma" (Already in the Dictionary)

Mask of Psychometry (Toa Helryx)      Kanohi Lumiha                        "Object Insight"

Mask of Intangibility (Toa Tuyet)          Kanohi Fehata                        "Make-Spirit"

Mask of Possibilities (Toa Nikila)          Kanohi Fuhisi                          "Change Possibilities"

Mask of Elemental Energy                   Kanohi Keka                            "Restore Energy"

Mask of Mutation (Makuta Miserix)      Kanohi Mutru                           "Mutation" (Already in Dictionary)

Mask of Scavenging (Vultraz)              Kanohi Juparga                       "Made Strong from Weak"

 

EM Masks (From the Expanded Multiverse, but made canon. Found in 'Other Kanohi' on BS01)

Mask of Adaptation                              Kanohi Vumufu                         "Always Shaping"

Mask of Aging                                      Kanohi Avaik                             "Intensive Passage of Time"

Mask of Biomechanics                         Kanohi Mafehi                           "Control Iron Object"

Mask of Conjuring                                Kanohi Leyaki                           "Speaking Actualize"

Mask of Fusion                                    Kanohi Yiya                               "Bring together"

Mask of Healing                                   Kanohi Amana                          "Healing" (Already in Dictionary)

Mask of Incomprehension                    Kanohi Uroro                             "Un-Word"

Mask of Rebounding                            Kanohi Elamat                          "Seeking Master"

Mask of Sensory Aptitude                    Kanohi Kamel                             "Increasing Sense"

Mask of Undeath                                 Kanohi Karigni                           "Rejection of Everything"

 

Discuss and correct my Matoran Grammar. please.

 

[The 1st Shadow]

Neat idea, but I would strongly advise against using the fan-made dictionary. Look at the Mask of Charisma in your chart. "Mutatu" is far too similar to the already existing Matatu, the mask of Telekinesis. "Mutru" is also one sound away from being "Metru."

And the Mask of Undeath: "Rejection of everything" sounds distinctly similar to the description of the Kanohi Crast, Mask of Repulsion.

 

I would say check the BS01 pages of all the already-named Kanohi before making attempts at these others.  

[Regitnui]

I am aware of the similarities. I didn't like Mutatu or Mutru either, but they were already in the dictionary, and I had enough troubles. Let's be fair though, it's not the first time we have characters/ objects with very similar names. Teridax and the Tridax pods, for one.

 

I did look at the BS01 pages, T1S. Undeath is a tricky concept to translate when the best word you have for death is 'end of life'. I settled on 'Rejection of everything' for the way the reanimated wearer would focus on one goal to the exclusion of all else.

 

And what do you have against making use of someone's work as oppposed to making the name up wholesale?

Edited November 21, 2014 by Regitnui

[Zeb]

What would you call the Mask of Creation? (The Gen 1 legendary mask, not the reboot one.)

[Regitnui]

Kanohi Fuhamak (Ultimate Mastery of Crafting). It's not a spectacular name, sounding Japanese to my ears. I refrained from including that name because of the Teridax Principle: Someone's not going to like it, and it's a large enough part of canon that those who don't like it will fight tooth and nail.

[The 1st Shadow]

What I have against it is that the entire thing claims to create verbs, adjectives, etc, based solely on a bunch of nouns, even to the point where some of the official names ended up getting rewritten for the sake of fitting into the dictionary. While I respect it as a well-meant project, I find the results of it rather silly. Also, look at the definitions he has for some of the character names. I can't remember which ones they were, but I know that some of them were simplified down to a single word that would hardly have defined their actual portrayal in the story. Also, everyone in-story had their words translated to English for the sake of the reader. We never once saw what a whole sentence would look/sound like in full-on Matoran. How did Tolkien manage to understand the syntax of a language we never actually saw? Star Trek fans were able to work out Klingon because the characters were actually given dialogue in their own tongue--something that cannot be said for anyone in BIONICLE. 

 

And look at Teridax and Tridax. One letter difference, but the pronunciation is entirely different. tear-uh-DACKS (3 syllables), and TRY-dacks (2 syllables, and the enunciation is on different parts of the word.)

Edited November 21, 2014 by ~T1S~

[Akavakaku]

I believe Tolkien's justification was that he's just doing the best he can with what he has. Also it's worth mentioning he already came up with names for the unnamed Kanohi.

[Regitnui]

Apparently I missed that blog post, as they are not in the dictionary. Only the ones I marked I could find.

[Banana Gunz]

This is a good idea, and this is one of the few things I'd actually love to see taken to Greg and canonized, but not in it's completely current state. Though some of these names sound great, others not so much, and I'm not entirely sure how strong Tolkiens dictionary is to base the names off of it.

 

But think of it this way; the kanohi names for masks weren't based off of dictionaries. The names were made because they sounded good/right. Since Tolkiens dictionary is not canon, I feel that imagination/taste/feel comes first in this case.

 

EDIT: I've always been a fan of flickr user JamesBaileyNuva746's headcanon for the Mask of Creation's name: The Kanohi Kau. It does sound maybe a little bit too much like Hau, but it still is simple, sounds good, and the similarity could even be considered a pro.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Banana Gunz

[Archon~]

I like the names and all however, the rule still stands: Greg cannot canonize any names that haven't been pre-approved by the legal team. Therefore, I don't see this happening.

However, I remember Greg saying that he had a list of approved Bionicle names he got for 2011, and that they're burried somewhere in his files. If we cpuld get that, I would be a happy man.

[Regitnui]

Somebody needs to ask him about that again. Especially if there are better names for these masks in there.

[Banana Gunz]

I like the names and all however, the rule still stands: Greg cannot canonize any names that haven't been pre-approved by the legal team. Therefore, I don't see this happening.

However, I remember Greg saying that he had a list of approved Bionicle names he got for 2011, and that they're burried somewhere in his files. If we cpuld get that, I would be a happy man.

 

But wait, Greg just canonized the first toa teams name. And plus B1 isn't being worked on anymore so doesn't he have control over most things?

[Regitnui]

Cordak was already accepted by Lego Legals as 'safe'. Greg didn't so much canonize a new word as canonize a new application for an existing one. These names are completely new.

[Archon~]

Exactly what Regit said.

 

I think that if you ask him again, you'll get the same answer because this is a matter of legal issues and intellectual property ownership. I HIGHLY doubt it Lego will be just like "Yeah guys! Go for it, go crazy!"

 

They would still be liable for any people we'd "offend" with these names.

[Banana Gunz]

Alright, I guess that makes sense. I still imagine that the application of the word would be something that would have to be reviewed as well if new ones have to approved, but I guess not.

[IcarusBen]

I call upon the mighty Greg! Will you please give us your list of pre-approved names!

Edited November 23, 2014 by IcarusBen

[Archon~]

He said it was burried under a bunch of files in his basement, after that he explain that it's pretty much lost forever, sadly. TSO's name was in that bunch too, fun fact!

[JRRT]

@Regitnui: This is a very creative attempt at filling in some of those pesky gaps in the canon, and I commend you for the thought and effort you put into it (and I think others should as well, since you’ve clearly spent time putting this together). However, as others have said, since canonization isn’t a possibility, this is more of an artistic work than a theory about the canon (although it may be based on canon material). In that sense, it’s in the same vein as what I’ve done with the Matoran dictionary – not canonizable, but still fun to think about and totally legitimate as a creative endeavor. I love to see other fans come up with stuff like this (juparga is particularly innovative: I assume ju- from ju-tlin “decay”, with par- “strength(ened)”, but not sure where -ga comes from?). Cool ideas.

 

@~T1S~: I feel like I ought to respond to your second post in detail, since you seem to have a pretty negative view of this, but don't really have time at the moment. However, I have actually addressed most of the objections you’ve articulated elsewhere. This post from my tumblr blog, in fact, hits most of the main points. Check it out, if you're interested. Otherwise, just two comments:

 

1. You start your second post by saying "What I have against it is..." I can't say that I understand why you'd have something "against" a project like the Matoran dictionary. I’ve never claimed that any of the material in the dictionary is canon, nor that it should be canonized. Canonization isn’t even a possibility anyways. Notice also that I’ve never posted it in S&T and have instead largely restricted it to my blog, where it belongs.  In that sense, the Matoran dictionary and everything related to it is one big art project. That’s how I like to think about it, at least. Explain to me why would you have something “against” that?

 

2. I'll quote you on this one:

 

While I respect it as a well-meant project, I find the results of it rather silly.

 

Here are the two options available to us on this matter: (1) Try to creatively construct a non-canon etymological history tying together all known Bionicle names/terms in a way that is as consistent with actual canon as far as possible. (2) Do nothing. I’ve taken the first option because it’s fun and I enjoy it (as do others). That should be reason enough.  Personally, I find the second option (which you are apparently advocating for?) to be silly, at least when it's presented as you’ve presented it, i.e. without any real argument for why the project shouldn’t be done. You can easily ignore the project if you wish, but calling it "silly" is neither sporting nor productive.

 

JRRT

Edited November 27, 2014 by Tolkien

[Regitnui]

Thank you, Tolkien. I do understand why it can't be officially canonized, I was hoping the names would make their way into other fan projects, like the EM, and people's head canon. As for Juparga, I'll have to check my notes as to where the components came from. So I'll get back to you.

[IcarusBen]

You know what'd be nice? If we had a team of linguists build a Matoran language. Not just one person, but an entire think tank, working together with a legal team, to create a completely "canon" Matoran dictionary. Tolkien has a pretty good effort, but I feel the dictionary has a few problems (I can't seem to find the actual words for "island," "tale" or "story.")

 

As for the actual mask names, I always thought the Mask of Creation should be named something -au, like Kau, Tau, Mau, Nau, Gau, something like that, or the Kanohi Artakha, or even something like the Kanohi Velika or something named for a Great Being.

[The 1st Shadow]

 You know how in an essay, your paragraphs should have an opening statement which is then followed up with information that further explains the topic? I will admit that I sometimes proceed with the explanation without giving the "topic sentence," in hopes that my audience is already fully aware of the context. Looks like I did that here, and I'll apologize for that right up front.

 

 

@~T1S~: I feel like I ought to respond to your second post in detail, since you seem to have a pretty negative view of this, but don't really have time at the moment. However, I have actually addressed most of the objections you’ve articulated elsewhere. This post from my tumblr blog, in fact, hits most of the main points. Check it out, if you're interested. Otherwise, just two comments:

 

1. You start your second post by saying "What I have against it is..." I can't say that I understand why you'd have something "against" a project like the Matoran dictionary. I’ve never claimed that any of the material in the dictionary is canon, nor that it should be canonized. Canonization isn’t even a possibility anyways. Notice also that I’ve never posted it in S&T and have instead largely restricted it to my blog, where it belongs.  In that sense, the Matoran dictionary and everything related to it is one big art project. That’s how I like to think about it, at least. Explain to me why would you have something “against” that?

 

2. I'll quote you on this one:

 

 

While I respect it as a well-meant project, I find the results of it rather silly.

 

Here are the two options available to us on this matter: (1) Try to creatively construct a non-canon etymological history tying together all known Bionicle names/terms in a way that is as consistent with actual canon as far as possible. (2) Do nothing. I’ve taken the first option because it’s fun and I enjoy it (as do others). That should be reason enough.  Personally, I find the second option (which you are apparently advocating for?) to be silly, at least when it's presented as you’ve presented it, i.e. without any real argument for why the project shouldn’t be done. You can easily ignore the project if you wish, but calling it "silly" is neither sporting nor productive.

 

JRRT

 

I apologize if I misspoke, but you are right. 

 

First off, when I said that...

 

And what do you have against making use of someone's work as oppposed to making the name up wholesale?

...I was directly responding to his question through use of similar terms. I probably could have worded that differently, I'll admit. But no, I have nothing against the project in itself. You have every right to it and I'm impressed by the amount of work you put into it, given the extremely limited material that LEGO gave us. I do have some qualms about various bits where you redefined words. I quote:

 

So for us humans, kanohi translates as “mask”, but for a Matoran, it might translate more accurately as “something that sustains energy”.

 

 

This speaks for itself. And it makes very little sense when we consider that other beings, like Axonn, can use Kanohi, but it does not sustain them, rendering that redefinition invalid when you take the entirety of the story into perspective. This was done with some other official terms, as well. In other words, you redefined the words to fit your dictionary, rather than changing your dictionary to fit the definitions. Make sense? 

 

And, actually, you both seem to have misread my comment. It's not that I think it shouldn't have been done. In fact, you answered that bit for yourself:

Notice also that I’ve never posted it in S&T and have instead largely restricted it to my blog, where it belongs.

 

Correct. It was a fan-created art project, as you described it. So, my comment was directed at Regit, posting unofficial stuff based off of someone else's unofficial stuff in S&T and trying to pass it off as being directly related to something official, without the appropriate disclaimer. Since that's all it is, then it could simply have been regulated to a comment on your blog posts, or he could make his own, or post it elsewhere. 

 

What I'd like to know is if enough of the BZ-Koronans also think that these masks should have Matoran names and whether these names should be canonized.

 

Storyline & Theories =/= Fan-Created Media/General Art. There's a fine line between those concepts.

 

Does that clear that up for ya? I mean no disrespect to you, Tolkien. For the most part, my comments were directed at Regit's use of your work and his apparent (at the time) belief that it somehow translated into official canon. I guess I just took the long way around in saying that this probably isn't the best forum to put this in.

Edited November 27, 2014 by ~T1S~

[IcarusBen]

 

So for us humans, kanohi translates as “mask”, but for a Matoran, it might translate more accurately as “something that sustains energy”.

 

 

This speaks for itself. And it makes very little sense when we consider that other beings, like Axonn, can use Kanohi, but it does not sustain them, rendering that redefinition invalid when you take the entirety of the story into perspective. This was done with some other official terms, as well. In other words, you redefined the words to fit your dictionary, rather than changing your dictionary to fit the definitions. Make sense? 

 

Actually, he said specifically for a Matoran, it might translate to something different. He didn't say for a... whatever Axonn is, nor did he say for a resident of the MU, he specifically said Matoran.

 

This actually makes sense in the context of the movies, if you-

 

*boo! you suck, Icarus!*

 

Hear me out. In the movies (and I think in the comics and books, too) they always say Kanohi mask. Never just Kanohi, no, they tack on the "mask" to the end. At first, I thought it was just so that the audience would learn what a Kanohi is, but now I'm thinking it's because Kanohi doesn't actually mean "mask", but rather is an adjective that describes this particular type of mask. 

[Banana Gunz]

 

 

So for us humans, kanohi translates as “mask”, but for a Matoran, it might translate more accurately as “something that sustains energy”.

 

 

This speaks for itself. And it makes very little sense when we consider that other beings, like Axonn, can use Kanohi, but it does not sustain them, rendering that redefinition invalid when you take the entirety of the story into perspective. This was done with some other official terms, as well. In other words, you redefined the words to fit your dictionary, rather than changing your dictionary to fit the definitions. Make sense? 

 

Actually, he said specifically for a Matoran, it might translate to something different. He didn't say for a... whatever Axonn is, nor did he say for a resident of the MU, he specifically said Matoran.

 

This actually makes sense in the context of the movies, if you-

 

*boo! you suck, Icarus!*

 

Hear me out. In the movies (and I think in the comics and books, too) they always say Kanohi mask. Never just Kanohi, no, they tack on the "mask" to the end. At first, I thought it was just so that the audience would learn what a Kanohi is, but now I'm thinking it's because Kanohi doesn't actually mean "mask", but rather is an adjective that describes this particular type of mask. 

 

 

This makes some pretty good sense. There's more than one type of mask in the MU. There's kanohi but then there's also copper masks and Hydraxon's powerless mask. I can't remember off of the top of my head but there might be more.

[JRRT]

@~T1S~: Thanks for your clarification. I think everyone agrees that this material isn't really appropriate for S&T, but then again we don't seem to have a policy for where discussion of Bionicle linguistics should go, since the topic of Bionicle names/terms is uniquely sensitive in that there is zero possibility for addition to the canon (so speculation is, by S&T standards, somewhat pointless), but at the same time it can't be entirely divorced from the canon, since any such discussion is by nature tied to the canon words/definitions that we have. In this case though, it's clearly a creative addition, so maybe the topic should be moved?

 

I'll respond to your specific objection about word "redefinition" in the dictionary:

I do have some qualms about various bits where you redefined words. I quote:

So for us humans, kanohi translates as “mask”, but for a Matoran, it might translate more accurately as “something that sustains energy”.

This speaks for itself. And it makes very little sense when we consider that other beings, like Axonn, can use Kanohi, but it does not sustain them, rendering that redefinition invalid when you take the entirety of the story into perspective. This was done with some other official terms, as well. In other words, you redefined the words to fit your dictionary, rather than changing your dictionary to fit the definitions. Make sense? 

 

While I admit to this quote, it's my turn to clarify what I meant: I should properly have inserted "historically" before "translate" in that quote: "...for a Matoran, it might historically translate more accurately as...". In which case this is simply a misunderstanding about the concept of etymology.

 

No, I'm not claiming that, when a Matoran says the word "Where's my Kanohi?" they're really saying "Where's my thing-that-sustains-energy?" The word kanohi means "mask". The idea is simply that, if you look into the history of the name, it derives from a slightly more complex semantic concept that references the function of Kanohi.

 

And although it's a moot point given these facts, I could easily counter your objection about non-Matoran beings wearing Kanohi by saying that these are the exceptions that prove the rule. Matoran are the most prevalent being in the MU, and they are uniquely dependent on Kanohi. I don't think it's a stretch, therefore, to say that Kanohi were made for Matoran, and that the majority function of Kanohi is to sustain the energy of Matoran (and Toa, to a lesser extent). So the name-origin for Kanohi could easily reference a Kanohi's function for Matoran (i.e. sustaining energy). In addition, the word kanohi is a word in the Matoran Language. Why shouldn't it refer to the Matoran-specific function of a Kanohi? Lastly, setting all of this aside, even if a being like Axonn doesn't wear a Kanohi for energy-sustenance, he does gain something from a Kanohi, namely access to a mask power. The element ka in my decomposition of kanohi isn't specific as to what kind of energy is involved. Neither does it refer to energy-sustenance in particular. 

 

So again, while it doesn't matter due to the fact that I'm not claiming that kanohi means something other than "mask", even if I was, I think it's a defensible position. I expect the same will apply to other words where you claim I've "redefined words to fit my dictionary". No, I haven't. I've taken the canon meanings of words and tried to extrapolate based on their form and similarity to other words what their etymologies (i.e. historical meaning) might have been.

 

Last point: You offer up that the other option available to us is to "change the dictionary to fit the definitions". This doesn't really make much sense, since, according to this logic, such a dictionary would consist of an entry for every canon-defined word with it's canon-defined meaning, with no extrapolation about etymology. Because of the fact that the canon has less information, making the dictionary a slave to the canon means having no real dictionary, no discussion of etymology (since there is no canon information on word-etymologies). In fact, if you want that sort of thing, you can easily peruse BS01's page on Languages, which is just a list of what the canon definitions of words are.

 

JRRT

Edited November 27, 2014 by Tolkien

[The 1st Shadow]

 

 

Hear me out. In the movies (and I think in the comics and books, too) they always say Kanohi mask. Never just Kanohi, no, they tack on the "mask" to the end. At first, I thought it was just so that the audience would learn what a Kanohi is, but now I'm thinking it's because Kanohi doesn't actually mean "mask", but rather is an adjective that describes this particular type of mask. 

 

You'll also notice that the target audience for the line was younger kids--kids who may not have a strong grasp on the entire storyline and need to have it simplified for them in various media. If I was telling someone about BIONICLE, someone who already knew very little, I wouldn't say the word "kanoka" and just expect them to know what it means. I would add the word "disk" so that they would later associate the term with something like a frisbee--because that's easier to understand. They did that purely for the sake of convenience for the kids, rather than a hard example of the actual grammar.

 

 

I'll respond to your specific objection about word "redefinition" in the dictionary:

I do have some qualms about various bits where you redefined words. I quote:

So for us humans, kanohi translates as “mask”, but for a Matoran, it might translate more accurately as “something that sustains energy”.

This speaks for itself. And it makes very little sense when we consider that other beings, like Axonn, can use Kanohi, but it does not sustain them, rendering that redefinition invalid when you take the entirety of the story into perspective. This was done with some other official terms, as well. In other words, you redefined the words to fit your dictionary, rather than changing your dictionary to fit the definitions. Make sense? 

 

1. While I admit to this quote, it's my turn to clarify what I meant: I should properly have inserted "historically" before "translate" in that quote: "...for a Matoran, it might historically translate more accurately as...". In which case this is simply a misunderstanding about the concept of etymology.

 

2. No, I'm not claiming that, when a Matoran says the word "Where's my Kanohi?" they're really saying "Where's my thing-that-sustains-energy?" The word kanohi means "mask". The idea is simply that, if you look into the history of the name, it derives from a slightly more complex semantic concept that references the function of Kanohi.

 

3. And although it's a moot point given these facts, I could easily counter your objection about non-Matoran beings wearing Kanohi by saying that these are the exceptions that prove the rule. Matoran are the most prevalent being in the MU, and they are uniquely dependent on Kanohi. I don't think it's a stretch, therefore, to say that Kanohi were made for Matoran, and that the majority function of Kanohi is to sustain the energy of Matoran (and Toa, to a lesser extent). So the name-origin for Kanohi could easily reference a Kanohi's function for Matoran (i.e. sustaining energy). In addition, the word kanohi is a word in the Matoran Language. Why shouldn't it refer to the Matoran-specific function of a Kanohi? Lastly, setting all of this aside, even if a being like Axonn doesn't wear a Kanohi for energy-sustenance, he does gain something from a Kanohi, namely access to a mask power. The element ka in my decomposition of kanohi isn't specific as to what kind of energy is involved. Neither does it refer to energy-sustenance in particular. 

 

4. So again, while it doesn't matter due to the fact that I'm not claiming that kanohi means something other than "mask", even if I was, I think it's a defensible position. I expect the same will apply to other words where you claim I've "redefined words to fit my dictionary". No, I haven't. I've taken the canon meanings of words and tried to extrapolate based on their form and similarity to other words what their etymologies (i.e. historical meaning) might have been.

 

5. Last point: You offer up that the other option available to us is to "change the dictionary to fit the definitions". This doesn't really make much sense, since, according to this logic, such a dictionary would consist of an entry for every canon-defined word with it's canon-defined meaning, with no extrapolation about etymology. Because of the fact that the canon has less information, making the dictionary a slave to the canon means having no real dictionary, no discussion of etymology (since there is no canon information on word-etymologies). In fact, if you want that sort of thing, you can easily peruse BS01's page on Languages, which is just a list of what the canon definitions of words are.

 

JRRT

1. Ah, yes. That does make a bit more sense. Thanks.

 

2. Fair enough, but if that's the case, you need to clarify that right up front, or else all of this happens.

 

3. Yes, I was a bit uncertain about that bit myself. But consider this: We've been given the official number of Matoran in the universe: 10,000. Ten-thousand is a very small number. How many other species exist in the MU? Dozens? This and this confirm that much. We know not ALL of them can use Kanohi, but there are many that can. When you consider the sheer number of different sapient species, and the planet-like size of the GSR, we have to assume that the populations of those other species easily dwarf that of the Matoran. Also, the term "Matoran Language" is a name we use. The Great Beings may just refer to it as a programming language, since all the beings inside Mata Nui were intended to speak it, and they gave Mata Nui instructions for the creation of the other races besides Matoran. This implies that Matoran were just the first step. We call it that because the Matoran have a bit of an ego and like to claim greatness of anything that is theirs. Notice how only the Matoran call their islands "great." As such, they would probably name the universe and the language after themselves, too. (Metru Nui=Matoran, Stelt=not Matoran. See what I mean?)

 

4. Okay. Again, fair enough. Clarify that ahead of time (and Regit should have done that, too, if he was even aware of the fact). But still, you say "what they might have meant." Yours was just one translation. If someone else had gone in and taken up this same project, I can guarantee that their results would have been significantly different. No reason to assume that yours is the only way to look at it, though your reasoning makes sense.

 

5. Already covered in the above points. But, "mask" and "thing that sustains energy" are entirely different. I understand that you were intending to expand upon the official definitions, but something like that is not an expansion--it's an addition That's like adding the definition of my laptop's charger to the definition of my favorite hat. (I'm sure that's not the extent of your work, but I'm just going off that one example now since I'm in a bit of a rush this morning.)

 

Anyway, my main issue here is the whole "wrong forum for this" thing. I will use this example to explain it: A few years back, a member on here drew an amazing art piece that featured Toa Nuparu running through a rocky plain beneath Mount Valmai, slaying the Voya Nui Resistance Team Wolverine-style with his claws. That image used canon elements: Nuparu, the VNRT, and Mount Valmai. The events and actions portrayed in it are not. What if someone had done what RegitNui has done here with that same fan-created bit? Brought it to S&T and treated it as though it were applicable to official canon? You're welcome to use canon material to give credibility to your fanon project, but Regit's use of it by trying to apply fanon to canon and assuming that it is allowed to take precedence over it is not what this is for. That belongs down in the Creative Forums or in his personal blog. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Edited November 27, 2014 by ~T1S~

[JRRT]

2. Fair enough, but if that's the case, you need to clarify that right up front, or else all of this happens.

 

3. Yes, I was a bit uncertain about that bit myself. But consider this: We've been given the official number of Matoran in the universe: 10,000. Ten-thousand is a very small number. How many other species exist in the MU? Dozens? This and this confirm that much. We know not ALL of them can use Kanohi, but there are many that can. When you consider the sheer number of different sapient species, and the planet-like size of the GSR, we have to assume that the populations of those other species easily dwarf that of the Matoran. Also, the term "Matoran Language" is a name we use. The Great Beings may just refer to it as a programming language, since all the beings inside Mata Nui were intended to speak it, and they gave Mata Nui instructions for the creation of the other races besides Matoran. This implies that Matoran were just the first step. We call it that because the Matoran have a bit of an ego and like to claim greatness of anything that is theirs. Notice how only the Matoran call their islands "great." As such, they would probably name the universe and the language after themselves, too. (Metru Nui=Matoran, Stelt=not Matoran. See what I mean?)

 

4. Okay. Again, fair enough. Clarify that ahead of time (and Regit should have done that, too, if he was even aware of the fact). But still, you say "what they might have meant." Yours was just one translation. If someone else had gone in and taken up this same project, I can guarantee that their results would have been significantly different. No reason to assume that yours is the only way to look at it, though your reasoning makes sense.

 

5. Already covered in the above points. But, "mask" and "thing that sustains energy" are entirely different. I understand that you were intending to expand upon the official definitions, but something like that is not an expansion--it's an addition That's like adding the definition of my laptop's charger to the definition of my favorite hat. (I'm sure that's not the extent of your work, but I'm just going off that one example now since I'm in a bit of a rush this morning.)

 

6. Anyway, my main issue here is the whole "wrong forum for this" thing. I will use this example to explain it: A few years back, a member on here drew an amazing art piece that featured Toa Nuparu running through a rocky plain beneath Mount Valmai, slaying the Voya Nui Resistance Team Wolverine-style with his claws. That image used canon elements: Nuparu, the VNRT, and Mount Valmai. The events and actions portrayed in it are not. What if someone had done what RegitNui has done here with that same fan-created bit? Brought it to S&T and treated it as though it were applicable to official canon? You're welcome to use canon material to give credibility to your fanon project, but Regit's use of it by trying to apply fanon to canon and assuming that it is allowed to take precedence over it is not what this is for. That belongs down in the Creative Forums or in his personal blog. That's the point I'm trying to make.

 

2. I didn’t need to clarify anything in the original context you pulled that quote from. In this context, however, clarification is necessary.

 

3. You’re begging the question here: Is 10k a “very small number”? We have zero knowledge about the population-size of non-Matoran species in the MU, so Matoran could easily constitute the general population. And regardless, the fact remains that non-Matoran species may be the exception that proves the rule: Non-Matoran species don’t require Kanohi, but Matoran do. Kanohi were clearly created with a function related to Matoran (and Toa, Turaga). Without Matoran, there would be no purpose for Kanohi (powerless Kanohi, at least). As for your ideas about the Matoran ego…this is an example of baseless speculation. For all we know, Metru Nui and the other -Nui islands could’ve been named by the Great Beings. Not relevant.

 

4. Again, clarification wasn’t necessary until now, because no one objected (or misunderstood) in the previous context. Also, I’ve never claimed that my version of Matoran is the only version. I’m not even sure how that’s relevant here. In fact, I’d love to see other people step in with their own versions—I shouldn't have a monopoly on this stuff, and I’ve made that clear on various occasions.

 

5. “Mask” and “thing that sustains energy” are not entirely different within the context of the Bionicle storyline. You seem to think that by “expansion” I mean “randomly adding whatever” to the meaning of a word. That’s hardly fair. Extrapolating that the word kanohi originates from a complex incorporating the well-established and highly-salient fact that Kanohi function as energy-sustainers for Matoran (and as objects granting special powers, in the case of Great Kanohi) isn’t a random addition. It’s an addition, yes, but it’s an addition in the form of a highly-constrained hypothesis grounded in the canon. In that sense, your laptop ~ hat metaphor is nonsense, since that is a truly random addition.

 

6. Point has been made. I've reported the topic to see what the mods think.

 

JRRT

Edited November 27, 2014 by Tolkien

[The 1st Shadow]

Alright, I get what you're saying on the rest of it. But keep in mind, my entire argument is directed towards Regitnui's use of someone else's fanon piece in S&T, where we deal with official stuff, is not entirely appropriate. That's the point I was trying to get across from the beginning.

 

3. You’re begging the question here: Is 10k a “very small number”? We have zero knowledge about the population-size of non-Matoran species in the MU, so Matoran could easily constitute the general population. And regardless, the fact remains that non-Matoran species may be the exception that proves the rule: Non-Matoran species don’t require Kanohi, but Matoran do. Kanohi were clearly created with a function related to Matoran (and Toa, Turaga). Without Matoran, there would be no purpose for Kanohi (powerless Kanohi, at least). As for your ideas about the Matoran ego…this is an example of baseless speculation. For all we know, Metru Nui and the other -Nui islands could’ve been named by the Great Beings. Not relevant.

 

I take it you never paid attention to the Official GregF Dialogue back on the old forums, then. Because that was a topic of discussion, and Greg did, as my memory serves, confirm that the Matoran have a bit of an ego in that regard. (Or, at least, in his opinion, they did )

 

EDIT: To further the discussion of population, there were at least a thousand Skakdi (don't remember if this was in Legacy of Evil or in one of the serials). Are you saying that the Skakdi and Matoran are the only species in the universe with populations that number into the thousands? The only two out of how many? With the dozens of races that exist, is it really that far-fetched to say that they don't add up to 10k? If that's the case, then Matoran are only about half of the entire population. Individually, they may have a majority, but as a whole system, not so much. The language was made for the entire system, not just one labor force.

Edited November 27, 2014 by ~T1S~

[IcarusBen]

Alright, I get what you're saying on the rest of it. But keep in mind, my entire argument is directed towards Regitnui's use of someone else's fanon piece in S&T, where we deal with official stuff, is not entirely appropriate. That's the point I was trying to get across from the beginning.

 

3. You’re begging the question here: Is 10k a “very small number”? We have zero knowledge about the population-size of non-Matoran species in the MU, so Matoran could easily constitute the general population. And regardless, the fact remains that non-Matoran species may be the exception that proves the rule: Non-Matoran species don’t require Kanohi, but Matoran do. Kanohi were clearly created with a function related to Matoran (and Toa, Turaga). Without Matoran, there would be no purpose for Kanohi (powerless Kanohi, at least). As for your ideas about the Matoran ego…this is an example of baseless speculation. For all we know, Metru Nui and the other -Nui islands could’ve been named by the Great Beings. Not relevant.

 

I take it you never paid attention to the Official GregF Dialogue back on the old forums, then. Because that was a topic of discussion, and Greg did, as my memory serves, confirm that the Matoran have a bit of an ego in that regard. (Or, at least, in his opinion, they did )

Many times, the Nui isn't referring to how great (awesome, cool, amazeballs) something is, but rather the vastness (a city that is great in size, a long voyage, a vast ocean, etc. etc.) We don't call it the "Great Depression" because it was pretty neat, or the "Great War" because we all liked it.

 

While GregF is the head writer, that doesn't mean he can't be wrong about canon. The story team probably meant it differently, or it could be by a case-by-case basis.

[Orokai42]

I've been looking into the Matoran dictionary for a while (great job Tolkien!) and I have also made my own list of Kanohi names. When I found this post I was excited! You did a good job Regitnui, but if i could offer a few suggestions:

 

Adaption: Vamutru makes a bit more sense than Vumufu. Vamutru < vamu-mu(t)-ru, from vamu "always changing" and mutru "oriented towards change."

 

Aging: I used a similar translation of "intensive passage of time", but I chose to use Vaduisak < va-duisi-ak, from va "time", duisi "passage", and the intensifying particle -ak. Avaik is good, but doesn't exhibit the actual passing of time (the duisi part).

 

Clairvoyance: I initially went the same way as you did, using ihu "far-seeing" as a base. But "far-seeing" seems to lack the "future" aspect of the mask power. I ended up using Vakama (the future lit: moving time) as a base, and came up with Vakmaku < vakama-aku, from vakama "future", and aku "sight". lit: "future sight".

 

Conjuring: Kamuro < ka-amu-oro, from ka "power", -amu "through, during", and oro "word". lit: "power through word(s)."

 

Elemental Energy: This was was hard. I tried to find a word or phrase that translated directly as "elemental energy" but couldn't (does anyone know of one?). I ended up using Kevua < ke-vua, from ke "restoration" and vua "power reservoir." Its only slightly more descriptive than your Keka.

 

Incomprehension: For this one I used Rau and just took the opposite; Rauku < rau-ku, from rau "understanding" and the negative particle -ku. lit: "non-understanding."

 

Light and Shadow: I thought it would fun to make a name for this one Kavakra. it has two etymologies; 1. kai-avo-kra, from kai "unity", avo "light", and okra "shadow"; "Unity of light and shadow". 2. ka-avak-kra, from ka "power", avak, "bright", and kra "shadow". This last one comes from the supposed paradox of having two opposite powers in one mask; "Bright shadows" cannot exist.

 

Psychometry: you and I almost agreed on this one. I used Lumihi instead of Lumiha. In my case my etymology is lumi-hi, from lumi "insight", and -hi "object". I'm unsure why you used ha instead.

 

Rebounding: I had difficulty with this one as well. I came up with Trakama < ter-kama, from tra variant of ter "guiding force", and kama "to move". lit: "guiding movement". Honestly it sounds too much like an alternate name for a Mataku ("telekinesis").

 

Scavenging: for this one I had to create a new meaning for the word bour. In the dictionary it is listed as "wilderness, barrenness", but I took it a bit further and translated it as "death", since that is the literal translation of the word; not (plant)-life, not living. my name for this mask is Parzibur < par-zi-bour, from par "strength", zi, "drained, and bur, reduction of bour "death". lit: "strength drained from death."

 

Sensory Aptitude: we completely agree on the naming of this mask; Kamel < ka-mi-el, from ka "power", mi "up, above", and el "detection, sense." lit: "power of increased sense." Good job.

 

Undeath: once I made my new meaning for bour, this mask was easy to name. Urbur < ur-bour, essentially creating a double negative; lit: "not-non-life." This adds to the unnaturalness behind this mask's power. The user is not dead... but not quite alive either.

 

Creation: no list of Kanohi would be complete without this one! For the record, I liked the name you came up with, and I think it sounds cool. If you want an alternate, try this: Takhatra < takha-ter, from take "craft, crafting" and tra variant of ter "guiding force". lit: "guiding force of crafting".

 

I hope this gives you a few more ideas, Regitnui. If you see anything wrong with my translations please tell me (I'm very open to advice). I'm glad someone other than myself took interest in Tolkien's amazing work.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Orokai42

[Regitnui]

A few suggestions? You disagreed on pretty much every mask.

 

If your font didn't give me a headache, I'd read through and compare. I will take a look at them on my notepad, where they are in a more mind-friendly font.

[Orokai42]

I hope this font is easier to read. I'm used to using Courier fonts.

 

I didn't disagree with your translations, I merely got to the same translations using different etymologies. Most of your names still came out to approximately the same meaning as mine, they just have different etymologies.

[MrSciFiGuy]

Very interesting idea, and I am loved that all the masks had specific names, so I am down for it. 

[Jam Pot Studios]

This is a great thread and I love the Kanohi names! The only problem is that for these to become canon, they would have to go through LEGO's legal team, as they're new names, and I think the chances of them doing that are highly unlikely. Greg has stated several times that he can't canonize any new names himself.

[abstractAgamid]

I like the idea of "Ura" for Incomprehension.

[Tattorack]

This is great!

The only criticism I can give is that some names sound too much like ones that already exist.