Toa Mangai of the Green's Weapon Poll

[Archon~]

Boidoh, I think you're forgetting the bow. I think at least 2-3 people showed interest in that.

[Ballom Nom Nom]

Frankly, this topic marks the "Canonize all the things!" movement reaching new heights of absurdity. We have a Toa who never appeared and never will, brought into existence for some inexplicable reason, and now somehow it matters what their weapon could be? And the suggestions are in the same vein as "something wooden?"

 

Bionicle is returning. Let's focus on that instead of shoving even more details down the throat of the first generation's dead body. And remember that BZP has forums for fan fiction, which need more activity anyway!

 

Alternatively, I humbly petition for every other unknown Toa's weapon to be "something metal or perhaps protodermis."

 

~B~

Edited December 6, 2014 by Ballom

[Regitnui]

We actually have more defined for this character than we do for the other unnamed Mangai. Let's leave him alone, or canonize his name being Fau or something that'd make a difference to fan-fiction writers. He could have picked up hundreds of weapons in his time in Metru Nui, not least of which growing whatever he needed.

[bonesiii]

Frankly, this topic marks the "Canonize all the things!" movement reaching new heights of absurdity. We have a Toa who never appeared and never will, brought into existence for some inexplicable reason, and now somehow it matters what their weapon could be? And the suggestions are in the same vein as "something wooden?"

Have you ever participated in cooperative creation of fiction like this, Ballom? This is the sort of thing that is often done. One person can suggest a part of an idea, and others can expand on it, etc. Lots of the things you have probably liked about stories were made this way, you just didn't see the process at work. LEGO-only things, especially most of the oft-beloved content of 2001, was usually produced this way among the early story team, for example.

 

If you're closed to that, then okay, but must you flame it? Must you ignore points already raised as to why it could matter? (And BTW, must you offer no appreciation for the same person you're mocking in the last sentence here also being the one who extended an olive branch to your way of thinking? Why not instead of mocking, agree with that part and make the same basic point in a constructive way?)

 

 

And might I humbly add a liiiittle reminder that we do have rules about flame and trolling? I hope it was not your intent and you're just afraid your perspective is being drowned out and don't know what else to resort to. I don't personally mind it but we do have these rules and for good reason, and things always work better if we all respect them.

 

 

Bionicle is returning. Let's focus on that instead of shoving even more details down the throat of the first generation's dead body. And remember that BZP has forums for fan fiction, which need more activity anyway!

As said before: 1) Why does somebody (or multiple people) providing details have to be "shoving down the throat"? And 2) Continuing to refine Gen1's worldbuilding in a few small ways is not mutually exclusive with Gen2! We can do both!

Edited December 6, 2014 by bonesiii

[Ballom Nom Nom]

 

Frankly, this topic marks the "Canonize all the things!" movement reaching new heights of absurdity. We have a Toa who never appeared and never will, brought into existence for some inexplicable reason, and now somehow it matters what their weapon could be? And the suggestions are in the same vein as "something wooden?"

Have you ever participated in cooperative creation of fiction like this, Ballom? This is the sort of thing that is often done. One person can suggest a part of an idea, and others can expand on it, etc. Lots of the things you have probably liked about stories were made this way, you just didn't see the process at work. LEGO-only things, especially most of the oft-beloved content of 2001, was usually produced this way among the early story team, for example. 

 

If you're closed to that, then okay, but must you flame it? Must you ignore points already raised as to why it could matter? (And BTW, must you offer no appreciation for the same person you're mocking in the last sentence here also being the one who extended an olive branch to your way of thinking? Why not instead of mocking, agree with that part and make the same basic point in a constructive way?)

 

 

And might I humbly add a liiiittle reminder that we do have rules about flame and trolling? I hope it was not your intent and you're just afraid your perspective is being drowned out and don't know what else to resort to. I don't personally mind it but we do have these rules and for good reason, and things always work better if we all respect them.

 

My opposition is not to fan contributions to works on the whole, it's to the specific things that have been canonized for Bionicle in the last few years, which I think take a very poor approach to it. I think this case of seeking to canonize trivial details for an incredibly minor character is unnecessary. Essentially, I agree with Sumiki's well-written post in one of the other topics discussing fan canonization, here.

 

I didn't intend to flame or troll. I intended to voice my criticism of this case as symptomatic of the general problems with canonizing things. Perhaps I worded things too harshly. However, please don't suggest that the only other possibility other than flaming is that I "don't know what else to resort to." That sounds like a logical fallacy.

 

Also, I don't fully understand your first parenthetical sentence. You seem to be suggesting I'm mocking you, I gather, although if so I'm not sure why you're doing it in a roundabout way without pronouns. First, it's my understanding that all of the suggestions in the opening post were agreed on by a group of members, so I don't know why you would think I'm singling you out. Second, I criticized heavily the overly generic suggestion of something wooden by exaggerated analogy, but I don't consider it to be mockery. I mean due respect to the members involved in the discussion.

 

 

Bionicle is returning. Let's focus on that instead of shoving even more details down the throat of the first generation's dead body. And remember that BZP has forums for fan fiction, which need more activity anyway!

As said before: 1) Why does somebody (or multiple people) providing details have to be "shoving down the throat"? And 2) Continuing to refine Gen1's worldbuilding in a few small ways is not mutually exclusive with Gen2! We can do both!

 

It depends on which details are being provided, and in this case it's details that don't add meaning and just contribute to the bloat of the storyline. Detailing a tiny background character isn't much worldbuilding; it's clutter.

 

~B~

[Toa of Gallifrey]

If others enjoy it and you can just ignore the details you don't want and focus on G2, why not just let the others carry on? Yes, a lot of these things are trivial but evidently some find them cool enough.

[The Skakdi Chronicler]

How about bow with some elemental arrows of sort, I have noticed lack of range weapons similar to this in Bionicle.

[Boidoh]

I hope I don't sound like a mod but on every single one of these topics some person comes up and yells in rage about some negative thing concerning canonization. There are about 2 or 3 topics about that already, so I'd like if this topic could have a whole less arguing, and more suggestion-making.

 

Boidoh, I think you're forgetting the bow. I think at least 2-3 people showed interest in that.

Added.

[Archon~]

Also, what is a Filou weapon? Can we add a description for that one because it just sounds confusing and I can't possibly figure out what it is. And if it doesn't have a specific description, what's the point of keeping it up there?

 

Also idea for the polls since some people don't think the weapon should be canonized:

 

Q1: Do you want the Toa Mangai of Plantlife (Green) to have a defined Toa Tool?

A. Yes

B. No

 

Q2: What Toa Tool would you like the Toa to have?

A. (Insert weapon name and description here, repeat)

.

.

.

B. I voted "no" in the previous poll.

 

I think this would be fair to those who want to express their displeasure.

[Boidoh]

Thats why when Phase 2 of this comes around we will be discussing the option, to define what these weapons are.

 

I suppose.

[Dorek]

I hope I don't sound like a mod but on every single one of these topics some person comes up and yells in rage about some negative thing concerning canonization. There are about 2 or 3 topics about that already, so I'd like if this topic could have a whole less arguing, and more suggestion-making.

Or you could possibly take those criticisms to heart and rethink how you're conducting the poll, or if it needs to be made at all. If you still want to go through with it because you genuinely think it's a good idea, that's fine, but just because something runs counter to your viewpoint doesn't make it "negative", nor does being negative make it "bad".

 

Also, what is a Filou weapon?

A weapon based on Fikou, because Boidoh has a fixation on Fikou (alliteration!). I can't tell if it's up there as a joke or not... it's sort of a problem either way =/.

[fishers64]

Also, what is a Filou weapon? Can we add a description for that one because it just sounds confusing and I can't possibly figure out what it is. And if it doesn't have a specific description, what's the point of keeping it up there?

 

Also idea for the polls since some people don't think the weapon should be canonized:

 

Q1: Do you want the Toa Mangai of Plantlife (Green) to have a defined Toa Tool?

A. Yes

B. No

 

Q2: What Toa Tool would you like the Toa to have?

A. (Insert weapon name and description here, repeat)

.

.

.

B. I voted "no" in the previous poll.

 

I think this would be fair to those who want to express their displeasure.

Yeah, at this point I think it should become a common practice for canonization polls. We don't have any guidelines for those, perhaps they should be on order to get the objections, preferences, opinions, etc out of the wringer. 

[Boidoh]

If anyone has anything else to say, say it now. I'll be closing off suggestions soon.

[Rider Of Spiders]

IMO there's nothing wrong with these canonizations but we know more about this Toa who has existed for mere days, than for example Naho who was way more integral to the story. Things are uneven. Instead of this weapon poll, I would've taken polls figuring out the other Toa Mangais Kanohi. A wooden mace/the weapon does not outweigh the importance of six Toa already in existence.

[Boidoh]

Your Kanohi poll is up. Have a smile now.

[Archon~]

If anyone has anything else to say, say it now. I'll be closing off suggestions soon.

This is what I mean by rushing things. I doubt there will be any more notable suggestions, but I strongly advise you to keep it open for a few more days or a week in order to satisfy as big of a fan population as possible.

[Boidoh]

I was gonna close it Monday. Really, these types of open ended stuff has unlimited suggestions. The amount of people leaving suggestions are slowing down a lot. 

[Sergei Rahkmaninoff]

     I don't want to seem like I'm pushing my own agenda, but unspecified should really be on the poll. It was formally seconded twice and I think it's reasonable to assume all the people who have spoken out against canonizations would probably like it as well.

[Ektris]

I don't want to seem like I'm pushing my own agenda, but unspecified should really be on the poll. It was formally seconded twice and I think it's reasonable to assume all the people who have spoken out against canonizations would probably like it as well.

I was just checking the current suggestions myself to check for this as well, but perhaps that's what the "None" in the list means? If that is the case, it might not be the best word to use. It does imply you would be voting for literally not carrying a weapon, which wouldn't be the same as an "Unspecified" vote. So consider me seconding thirding fourthing whatevering it as well.

 

~|ET|~

Edited December 7, 2014 by Electric Turahk

[Sergei Rahkmaninoff]

     None is definitely different from unspecified.

[Boidoh]

Whatever keeps the minority group at ease.

[Sergei Rahkmaninoff]

     Minority or not, we all deserve the chance to voice our opinion. Perhaps when this poll is over you will find yourself in the minority, hmm? Surely you will not feel that you did not deserve to vote because of this.

[ALVIS]

Boidoh, for god's sakes, stop trying to paint yourself as the voice of the majority.

[fishers64]

Boidoh, for god's sakes, stop trying to paint yourself as the voice of the majority.

Actually, according to this poll, the pro-canonization people have a majority of 3 votes.

Edited December 7, 2014 by fishers64

[ALVIS]

 

Boidoh, for god's sakes, stop trying to paint yourself as the voice of the majority.

Actually, according to this poll, the pro-canonization people have a majority of 3 votes.

 

 

That may be so, but Boidoh does not speak for everyone in the pro-canonization camp. Boidoh has a perspective towards canonization that is shared by some, but there are other perspectives out there which have similar levels of support. I am frustrated by Boidoh's insistence on characterizing everyone who disagrees with him as being "the minority group" because a) it's patently untrue and b) it shows a stubborn unwillingness to accept criticism and consider the fact that other people might have valid opinions, which is a trait any individual seeking to be described as "mature" should jettison as soon as humanly possible.

 

The important thing to note is that everyone who has an opinion about canonization is in a minority group. The vast, vast majority of G1 BIONICLE fans either don't know or don't care about canonization; this is an activity that affects/pisses off only the fans who are most obsessed with G1 story. We are all the minority, and any division among us simply creates even tinier fractions of the fandom as a whole. No one on any side of this debate has any right to consider themselves a majority.

 

...I want to stress that, despite the above rant, I'm not trying to vilify you, Boidoh. I have defended you on several occasions, and I think you possess an idealistic enthusiasm for BIONICLE that many of the jaded oldies (myself included) are, to an extent, missing. I am simply frustrated that you so often ignore and dismiss your critics. I was the same way a few years ago. Learning to accept other people's perspectives, even if they disagreed with me, was really difficult. But doing so was a huge step in my personal journey of maturity. I think you need to take the same step.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Yaldabaoth

[Takhamavahu]

This sounds needlessly complicated.

[Toa R. Lih Nit]

Also, you're not limited to one suggestion per post or anything.

 

I suggest...

 

- Madu Fruit Launcher

 

Hmm. I suppose he can have one weapon and one shield. What do you all think? Should we vote for a shield and weapon?

 

This, Madu Cabolo, Kabum Launcher 

[Boidoh]

 

Also, you're not limited to one suggestion per post or anything.

 

I suggest...

 

- Madu Fruit Launcher

 

Hmm. I suppose he can have one weapon and one shield. What do you all think? Should we vote for a shield and weapon?

 

This, Madu Cabolo, Kabum Launcher 

 

 

Madu Fruit Launcher added to list.

 

Does anyone else have any suggestions, or would like to second any suggestion that never made it to the list? Does anyone else think we should close this now and start expanding on the suggestions we already have?

[Toa Smoke Monster]

 

 

Also, you're not limited to one suggestion per post or anything.

 

I suggest...

 

- Madu Fruit Launcher

 

Hmm. I suppose he can have one weapon and one shield. What do you all think? Should we vote for a shield and weapon?

 

This, Madu Cabolo, Kabum Launcher 

 

 

Madu Fruit Launcher added to list.

 

Does anyone else have any suggestions, or would like to second any suggestion that never made it to the list? Does anyone else think we should close this now and start expanding on the suggestions we already have?

 

This poll has only been open for about 4 days now. I would consider waiting at least a full week before closing this poll and moving on to the next one.

[Boidoh]

I wouldn't mind waiting longer, but what do you mean by moving on to the next one? Were just in phase one of this poll. Phase two would be elaborating on what these weapons are, what they do, ect. Then we take it to Greg for approval for them to be on the poll, then we vote.

[Archon~]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, you're not limited to one suggestion per post or anything.

 

I suggest...

 

- Madu Fruit Launcher

 

Hmm. I suppose he can have one weapon and one shield. What do you all think? Should we vote for a shield and weapon?

This, Madu Cabolo, Kabum Launcher

Madu Fruit Launcher added to list.

 

Does anyone else have any suggestions, or would like to second any suggestion that never made it to the list? Does anyone else think we should close this now and start expanding on the suggestions we already have?

This poll has only been open for about 4 days now. I would consider waiting at least a full week before closing this poll and moving on to the next one.

What he said.

What's up with you and rushing things?

[Boidoh]

As I said, I wouldn't mind waiting longer.

[Toa Smoke Monster]

I wouldn't mind waiting longer, but what do you mean by moving on to the next one? Were just in phase one of this poll. Phase two would be elaborating on what these weapons are, what they do, ect. Then we take it to Greg for approval for them to be on the poll, then we vote.

I thought there was going to be another poll after this one that would narrow down the weapon choices. My mistake. 

[Boidoh]

I don't think these need narrowing down. How much do we have? Like 7?

[Doctor Makuta]

Vine Whip sounds good. Although this seems less nessecary than the other polls.

[Pohatu: Uniter of Stone]

FIKOU MAAAAAAACE

 

It would be awesome, you know it.

[Boidoh]

I'd say it would be safe to call phase 1 closed now.

 

Commence phase 2!

 

---------------

 

First, we will begin expanding upon the weapon currently known as the Fikou Weapon. And yes Dorek, I do have a fixation on Fikou.

 

Some people have suggested that this Fikou weapon should be a Mace. Any other suggestions, or maybe expand how the mace looks and what-not.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Boidoh

[maxim21]

Boidoh, I think you're rushing it there. The last suggestion that was added was not even 24 hours ago. The topic was opened four days ago. That's too fast. Some people can't come on BZP every day, and word of this canonization hasn't really reached a fair part of the fandom, even on BZP. And that's even worth when you think of the other communities. For example, stuff like this usually take around a week to begin to be known in the french community.

[JMSOG]

If you're gonna go with the category "Fikou Weapon", It seems like it's not a weapon per se, but a design or motif applied to one of the other weapon types. So, it would be fikou staff, fikou bow, etc., and maybe not an individual choice on it's own. The same applies with the "something wooden" option.

[Ektris]

Aye, those two definitely shouldn't be taken to any sort of poll. They aren't concrete weapons.

 

I personally object to anything vine-based because those aren't weapons to me... As a Toa of the Green, he can just make whatever he wants out of plantlife. That's all those would be to me. But at least they're concrete forms that were suggested.

 

If you could narrow them down to, for example, a Fikou Mace, that'd be great. And a mace actually sounds cool to me. If you want the Fikou stylings, then just have the head shaped like a spider (legs being pointy bits).

 

~|ET|~