Why Elements, Rahi and Makuta Should Come Back

[aldero]

Hello again, readers! Now be mindful that these opinions I will put forth are suggestions. The new Bionicle sets haven't even hit the shelves yet (at least in Australia), and we only have a synopsis of what will happen in 2015's line. In keeping with my belief that this theme should distinct itself more from it's predecessor, I will suggest some new ways to integrate it into the story, but I will still deviate from that a bit with these following suggestions:

 

Add more elements.

 

No matter when you joined the Bionicle crowd, you would always see a collection of six, distinctly coloured and powered heroes/villains dominate both the attention and the shelves. Fire, Water, Air/Jungle, Earth/Rock, Stone/Sand and Ice would be the elements and colours of whatever six-team we saw in any one wave. It is quite clear that this the first 2015 wave is following suit, keeping with the tradition. Personally, I believe we should change the elements up a bit. In the Generation 1 Bionicle story, we have several different elements besides the original six, and those other elements are plentiful. We have: 

 

Magnetism, Gravity, Sonics, Psonics, Plasma, Acid, Lightning, Sand, Rock, Plantlife, Light, Shadow, and Iron.

 

I say we introduce another six of these elements into the new story, but further along the way, of course, very much like the Bohrok-Kal. It would be a very nice way to break the mold (with the protagonists), and it also builds upon the expanse of powers in this new universe. 

 

Bring back our favourite bio-mechanical animals.

 

So far, the only animals we have seen are the Skull Spiders. That's a good start, hearkening back to the Toa battling Rahi controlled by Teridax, in that this year's heroes oppose creatures. But I feel that just these spiders aren't good enough. I really don't know if the Generation 2 storyline wants an emphasis on nature and creatures, but since Okoto is basically Mata Nui (the island) with a whole bunch more rocks and an ancient city, the story might as well bring back the Rahi.

 

Now I'm not saying that the creatures should be called the Rahi again, as I'm quite open to another name, but the animals should stay. The original island of Mata Nui had a very vast and interesting environment, and this wasn't just demonstrated through mountains and lakes. The Rahi gave the island a lot of character, and whether the jungle was full of friendly Gukko birds or hostile Nui-Jaga helped set the tone. It seems that the island of Okoto wants to seem dangerous, particularly with the menacing Skull Spiders, and if so, then populate the waters, plains and mountains with sharks, bulls and bears respectively. Not only that, but it widens the focus of the Generation 2 world, and expands in the same way that new elements do.

 

Also, we can possibly get another Rahi building competition! Yay!

 

Bring in the Brotherhood.

 

You know what one of my favourite things about Gen 1 was? The Brotherhood of Makuta. They were a collection of antagonists made of a green liquid who specialise in Rahi, weapon and virus creation. Sweet. In Gen 2, however, I am trying to stick to my main rule for this generation, but still keeping the appeal alive. I say that in this story, there are several fields of expertise in this universe, and maskmaking is one of them. Like the new Makuta, each of these masters become corrupt for... whatever reason, and plague the inhabitants of Okoto or whatever new location with their creations. These skills, each with their own, made-up names, should be the following:

 

Rahi Creation, Weaponsmithing, and Energy Crafting.

 

I think that these skills will add some variety to the threats our heroes will have to face, hopefully toning down the dominant use of shadow. With these also come a lot of potential for new enemies, and, yet again, expanding the lore of this new story to become as awesome as Gen 1 was.

 

So, that concludes my surprisingly popular topic. Am I fanboying too much about the return of these Gen 1 story aspects, or are these inspired? Let me know!

Edited December 7, 2014 by Turaga Coliak

[Mjolnitor]

I say we introduce another six of these elements into the new story, but further along the way, of course, very much like the Bohrok-Kal. It would be a very nice way to break the mold (with the protagonists), and it also builds upon the expanse of powers in this new universe.

And make the same mistake? No way.

[The 1st Shadow]

 

I say we introduce another six of these elements into the new story, but further along the way, of course, very much like the Bohrok-Kal. It would be a very nice way to break the mold (with the protagonists), and it also builds upon the expanse of powers in this new universe.

And make the same mistake? No way.

 

In what way was it a mistake? I loved the wide diversity of elements, and it did break up the monotony of just having the same thing over and over. With at least two or three other elements, we'd have a sense of familiarity while perhaps, for the first time, actually getting a good look at a character of another element (even if this is Generation 2).

 

Now, having TOO many elements may have been a bit much, but having more than just six was not a mistake. It was the best thing LEGO could have done--it showed us that there was more out there that we didn't know, that there was something that our favorite heroes were not entirely equal to.

 

Different elements would add so much potential in both story and sets.

 

Let me ask you something. (And this is assuming you've heard of things like MARVEL or DC.)

 

Look at how MARVEL is handling their movies lately--in Phase One, they introduced a group of six characters that came together in The Avengers. And they're all coming back for Phase Two's movie, Avengers: Age of Ultron. But you notice that they're not going to give us the same old characters for the rest of the Marvel Cinematic Universe--they've introduced Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, the Falcon, and a few others. Why? Because, like any entertainment company that deals in teams of diverse superpowered characters, they know that the same heroes over and over are going to bore people after a while. Would you go to watch a bunch of movies that used the exact same cast over and over? (Well, I would, but I would be constantly hoping for something MORE.)

 

LEGO did that with the Nuva--brought them back in '08. Was that a good decision? Well, yes, because the G1 Story did revolve around them and their destiny. But, at the same time, I noticed a lot of backlash at this decision, with people saying "Why are they back? Give us some new characters," or, "Let's see a team that doesn't consist of the main six elements." I don't think you realize how popular that sentiment was back in the day, and I'm sure there's no shortage of it now.

 

The point is, doing the exact same thing over and over with the exact same characters and elements is going to be boring for a lot of people. Would you object to having a Purple-and-Blue Toa of say, Gravity or Magnetism? What about an Orange-and-White Toa of Plasma? Are you saying six elements is already too many? Remember how amazed we were back in '03 when we learned that a seventh Toa element (light) existed? The Bohrok powers weren't confirmed as elements until later, but the point still stands.

 

More elements. Maybe not all of those that Coliak has listed up there, but more, even if it is just three. I say they should do the other elements as the enemies again--give the Masters a challenge--something they're not familiar with. 

 

Do you realize the potential this has?

Edited December 6, 2014 by ~T1S~

[Mjolnitor]

The point is, doing the exact same thing over and over with the exact same characters and elements is going to be boring for a lot of people. Would you object to having a Purple-and-Blue Toa of say, Gravity or Magnetism? What about an Orange-and-White Toa of Plasma?

Purple-and-blue? Yes. Gravity? Magnetism? Plasma? No way, leave them to settings where they are more suitable. More sci-fi-ish ones.

 

If one is going to add heroes with powers, one should carefully decide which powers are suitable for given setting.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Mjolnitor

[Iblis]

I think a few new ^{(well outside of the six so far)} Elements would be good, but not to many.

 

Although I would rather not see Plasma as a Mask &/or Toa Element or as it makes Fire feel weak by comparison; & I think the same similar can be said of Gravity: either it will feel to weak or strong compared to other Elements unless it has some ..interesting constraints on it.

I'm open to the prospect that they could work (with the other Elements), I just don't feel it is likely that they will if those particular Elements return.

 

I can still see a place for Plasma just as an enemy ability (whether it's an 'Element' or 'Power' I don't really mind), but things like Density Control, Gravity, & Molecular Disruption tend to feel like they should be more powerful/useful than other abilities... but limiting some of these can feel more natural than others; the names just...

 

I suppose they don't invoke the same type of feel that more mythological Elements have, or the more commonly ^{(than 'Molecular Disruption' etc.)} seen Heat Vision or Laser vision; whilst they are just as explicit Density Control is a much broader term, so limitations don't naturally come to mind.

 

I'm all for Electricity, Light, Metal ^{(preferably with Magnetism mixed into it or not at all, at least as far as Mask/Toa Elements/Powers go)}, & Shadow/Darkness appearing as Mask/Toa abilities; and the same for seeing Acid, Anger, Chameleon, Confusion, Fear, Fire Resistance, Hunger, Ice Resistance, Mind Reading, Poison, Sleep, Telekinesis, & Telepathy.

 

Something like Sonics (or Power Scream) as an Element/Power I would rather not see, although I have no issue with a monster/person that just has a really, really loud scream to the point of it being devastatingly painful. ^{(Something like various Elemental Resistances can fill both places IMO)}

 

I don't really know how I feel about Powers such as Accuracy, Dodge, & Slow...

 

I think an important thing is that there aren't too many Elements, but that a few can be advantageous.

[bonesiii]

Fire, Water, Air/Jungle, Earth/Rock, Stone/Sand and Ice would be the elements and colours of whatever six-team we saw in any one wave. It is quite clear that this the first 2015 wave is following suit, keeping with the tradition. Personally, I believe we should change the elements up a bit.

I'm confused. The part I've quoted here begins by mentioning that elements have been changed up a bit. *reads on* Well, I think Gen2 is probably better served by not copying off of Gen1's list. I'm not sure what precisely you were saying there, though. I kinda think this version should keep a more tree-and-rock focused style and avoid the more fundamental nature ones like Magnetism and Gravity. Although Light should probably be there. Then again, the focus on elemental masks does imply the list should eventually grow.

 

Anyways, next time please write your entire topic before posting it; "I'll post the content later" topics are discouraged. I'll leave this alone since you did at least write part of it.

[Boidoh]

Why does everryone say Plantlife!? It is the Green.

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

Why does everryone say Plantlife!? It is the Green.

 

not to sound snarky, but there is a very good reason people say plantlife instead of the green...

[Regitnui]

Because Plantlife is far more descriptive as a name than the Green. Would you honestly start calling the lement of Ice 'the White', if that was how it was described in-story?

[believe victims]

Would you go to watch a bunch of movies that used the exact same cast over and over?

People watched eight Harry Potter movies with no complaints that Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, and Hermione Granger continued to be the protagonists.

 

I like having a core six elements. It keeps things simple. Now, I still think Stone and Earth, and Water and Ice, are redundant, and would think it logical to simplify it down to the core four elements of Earth, Fire, Water, and Air (er, jungle I guess). But we have a fairly solid core here.

 

Old Bionicle didn't even know what to do with some of the elements it brought in, and it showed horribly. Unless you can think of a way to introduce new elements to an island that's already split up into six elemental sections, the same is bound to happen here.

 

Plus, you know, we need to keep the cast to a manageable size, both in terms of story and in terms of sets released. Too many characters, and it becomes difficult to release every character in a year, which is problematic, because if a character doesn't get a set in a year, they also don't get a story role.

[ALVIS]

I was drawn in by the title, and then disappointed to find that the OP only addressed one of the three concepts mentioned in the title. Allow me to weigh in on the other two.

 

Makuta is already coming back. "The Legend" and promotional materials indicate that this incarnation of the character will reprise his role as the Big Bad, so you should be satisfied -- unless you are referring to Makuta as a species. If you'll permit me, bringing them back would be a terrible idea. The idea of multiple Makuta was never very popular in G1, especially because it meant the writers had to find a new name for the OG Makuta, which was even less popular. What's more, the Makuta race was incredibly over-powered, even by G1's standards. In a low-power setting like Okoto, they would be nothing less than physical gods, and the Toa wouldn't stand a chance.

 

Rahi should come back, though not necessarily as Rahi; I'd be fine with them just being called "beasts". We're not actually sure if they have come back or not: the Skull Spiders and their Lord appear to be beasts, but their Lord (from what little information we have) seems to demonstrate intelligence and the ability to use Masks of Power. Regardless of that, I would like to learn much more about Okoto's fauna and flora. Proper, detailed, immersive world building is key to drawing in an audience and making them stay. It was one of G1's most redeeming features (in the early years, at least), and for G2 to skip out on that would be a terrible mistake.

 

As for more elements: I'm not averse to the idea of a few more masks (and their respective elements) being introduced. Light, Storm, and possibly Sound stand out as good candidates. The more esoteric and abstract elements from G1, however, would not fit G2's setting whatsoever, and should be avoided at all costs.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Yaldabaoth

[Click]

Might as well take out two Kahu with one stone, and have another wave based on elemental creatures. Some kind of plasma beast living the Region of Fire would make sense and be awesome. Something crystalline (please, please, please) in the Earth Region would also make my list.

 

The great thing about this is they introduced the Toa as "Masters of <insert element here>." If we had another guy, say "Vakama, Master of Fire," it would discredit both him and Tahu, because "Master" implies the one with the greatest power and control. It would make sense to go on to have a "Master of Light," "Master of Crystal" (please, please, please), "Master of Lightning," etc., but I wouldn't want a totally new team made entirely of new elements. It would feel so disconnected. I like the idea of introducing them like Takanuva back in '03: prophesies of another Master, he suddenly appears, and is released as a larger, special edition set. I guess that would get old after a while ("Wait, there's another Master with another amazing power!" "Enough already, Protector, we've already got six special masters!")

 

So, basically what I'm saying is the story leaves room for more powers, but it would have to be done carefully to avoid disconnecting this from previous stories (G1 and G2).

[Banana Gunz]

I do agree more elements are great, but I'm not a fan of your vision for them.

 

For me, I've always hated the list of extended elements. They just felt weird and needless. Magnetism and Gravity? They're interesting concepts in real life but feel redundant power wise in Bionicle and crowd things up.

 

My headcanon for the extended list is: Lightning/Storm, Plantlife/the Green (In this new reboot though this element would have to be changed, so something else would take its place, but I'm not sure yet), Crystal, Metal (but cannot control the metal of other beings), Sound/Sonics, and Acid/Poison. Light and Shadow are also in there as sort of legendary elements.

 

These to me are all different/diverse from each other and the original six elements (with the exception of the green. This is my list for Gen 1, and all the elements except for that one are also for my Gen 2 headcanon) and all bring something cool to the list.

 

How would they be introduced? My idea is that the toa defeat Makuta after three years of Gen 2, and then the toa sacrifice their power or die or something, as long as they're out of the way and no longer having a direct effect on the story. There could be a Takanuva or Master of Light involved in the end. They discover a new island after some exploring where the other elements live and a new threat comes in, putting everyone in danger. A new series of toa is created from the new elements to fight this evil, and the story goes on from there. There are a bunch of problems with this idea, but it generally works for the most part. We have a new and interesting setting, the plot isn't filled with an excess of characters, and it feels linear.

 

My other idea is that the elements are made or found within the island. So, perhaps under every region there is like a giant altar or storage bay where one of the elements have been hibernating. They open them up, and there become two elements per region, the most similar ones living together. There are even more problems with this idea, but hey, it's all I got.

 

Having more elements and characters would be amazing for this new universe, but they have to come in at the right time and not crowd the story needlessly.

[Archon~]

Honestly, I don't think new elements should be added to new Bionicle at all. I feel this way because they were somewhat difficult to deal with in Gen1, and I don't want to see the same redundancy repeated.

It'd be cool if the Toa got powered up with some limited powers of secondary elements later on, but that's about it.

Since the Makuta is returning, I won't be addressing that, and I would like to see Rahi make a return but it'd be cool if there were subspecies of one type of Rahi that transformed due to the isolated geography? Idk. I never cared for Rahi that much.

[fishers64]

One possibility that hasn't been brought up is that the Toa could, thanks to the powers of different Elemental Masks, actually swap elements. For example, Tahu could swap his Mask of Fire for a Mask of Plasma. Cue a color scheme and equipment swap and a new set. 

 

I'd like to know what people think about that. I'm not sure what I think about it. Part of me says that "Tahu is Fire." and you don't do that, and the other half says that could open up a bunch of storyline potential for elements while avoiding BioniClassic character bloat. 

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

Regarding elements, the only elements I want to see return are:

- Air

- Lightning

- Sonics (Sound)

- Iron (Metal)

- Sand

- Light

- Darkness.

 

(Wow, I said only, but that's quite a lot... not all at once of course )

 

I think Crystal and  could work, but we can do without either really.

[Boidoh]

Because Plantlife is far more descriptive as a name than the Green. Would you honestly start calling the lement of Ice 'the White', if that was how it was described in-story?

 

But Plantlife is a non-canon name for the element, the Green. That excuse is awful. When you google "the green" a definition box comes up and a definition of it was something along the lines of "covered with plants". If you google, "the white", all that comes up is "the white house".

[believe victims]

 

Because Plantlife is far more descriptive as a name than the Green. Would you honestly start calling the lement of Ice 'the White', if that was how it was described in-story?

 

But Plantlife is a non-canon name for the element, the Green. That excuse is awful. When you google "the green" a definition box comes up and a definition of it was something along the lines of "covered with plants". If you google, "the white", all that comes up is "the white house".

 

When I googled "The Green" I got some reggae band so i don't know what on earth you're talking about. "green" does have an association with plantlife, but it's not a descriptive name. None of the other elements are named so vaguely; their element name succinctly describes what they are. Therefore, plantlife makes far more sense as an element name than "The Green."

[Aanchir]

I don't think the LEGO Group should be in any hurry to introduce a bunch of extra elements to BIONICLE G2. Frankly, part of the reason those elements were never really in the spotlight is because there were so many of them, and it would have been difficult to focus intently on those less iconic minor elements without it coming at the expense of the major elements.

 

Now, there wouldn't have been any serious harm in giving one of those less prominent elements to a new or minor character like Mazeka or Lesovikk. In fact, we actually DID see that with the Toa Jovan combi model. But when you only have six main protagonists for the year, who are usually long-established characters with long-established elements, and when the main antagonists for the year often don't even have elemental powers, there's not a whole lot of room to introduce a main character with a brand-new element.

 

BIONICLE G2 is already dabbling in different elements, though, by combining plantlife and air into a single element of Jungle (similar to the Chinese classical element of wood, which encompasses both plants and the wind).

Edited December 6, 2014 by Aanchir

[Boidoh]

 

 

Because Plantlife is far more descriptive as a name than the Green. Would you honestly start calling the lement of Ice 'the White', if that was how it was described in-story?

 

But Plantlife is a non-canon name for the element, the Green. That excuse is awful. When you google "the green" a definition box comes up and a definition of it was something along the lines of "covered with plants". If you google, "the white", all that comes up is "the white house".

 

When I googled "The Green" I got some reggae band so i don't know what on earth you're talking about. "green" does have an association with plantlife, but it's not a descriptive name. None of the other elements are named so vaguely; their element name succinctly describes what they are. Therefore, plantlife makes far more sense as an element name than "The Green."

 

 

It doesn't matter what makes "far more sense". In BIONICLE, the element is called 'the Green' in the Matoran Universe. If I thought that the Fikou made far more sense to be called the Orange Spider, that doesn't mean I should go around calling the Fikou the Orange Spider.

[Toa Smoke Monster]

One possibility that hasn't been brought up is that the Toa could, thanks to the powers of different Elemental Masks, actually swap elements. For example, Tahu could swap his Mask of Fire for a Mask of Plasma. Cue a color scheme and equipment swap and a new set. 

 

I'd like to know what people think about that. I'm not sure what I think about it. Part of me says that "Tahu is Fire." and you don't do that, and the other half says that could open up a bunch of storyline potential for elements while avoiding BioniClassic character bloat. 

I was thinking of something like this when I was reading through this topic. I think it would be a great idea to not only keep the Gen 2 Toa in the story, it would also give them new powers to use, which keeps them interesting in the story IMO. Or maybe the Toa could have two elements each. Like Lewa having Air and Plantlife elemental powers, or Kopaka having Ice and Gravity powers, just to name a couple examples. That is just my thought on this.

 

To address the topic, I wouldn't mind more elements being added into the story. But I would wait to introduce them until at least the third year of the story or after that, if the line continues into 2018 and/or beyond.

[believe victims]

 

 

 

Because Plantlife is far more descriptive as a name than the Green. Would you honestly start calling the lement of Ice 'the White', if that was how it was described in-story?

 

But Plantlife is a non-canon name for the element, the Green. That excuse is awful. When you google "the green" a definition box comes up and a definition of it was something along the lines of "covered with plants". If you google, "the white", all that comes up is "the white house".

 

When I googled "The Green" I got some reggae band so i don't know what on earth you're talking about. "green" does have an association with plantlife, but it's not a descriptive name. None of the other elements are named so vaguely; their element name succinctly describes what they are. Therefore, plantlife makes far more sense as an element name than "The Green."

 

 

It doesn't matter what makes "far more sense". In BIONICLE, the element is called 'the Green' in the Matoran Universe. If I thought that the Fikou made far more sense to be called the Orange Spider, that doesn't mean I should go around calling the Fikou the Orange Spider.

 

 

From now on, I'm only calling them Orange Spiders, just to spite you.

 

On a less petty note, though, it matters that it makes more sense because when you're talking about elements, it's more descriptive and less confusing to say Plantlife than "The Green" in an element list. Coming in to say "UM ACTUALLY IT'S CALLED THE GREEN" is no less obnoxious than people who correct "Masters" to "Toa".

 

Plus, this is a topic about G2. Even if G2 didn't have a mostly-equivalent element with a far more sensical name, it would be perfectly fine to call it something other than "the Green", because it's talking about possibilities for G2, and thus doesn't even fit within trying to rigidly enforce G1 terminology.

[Boidoh]

G1 had other names to describe the Green. The Makuta power was Plant Control, and the Agori tribe was Jungle. Why make up a word that never existed in canon? Plus, the Element Lord of Jungle was called "Master of the Green" in Riddle of the Great Beings. So, it doesn't matter what "makes more sense", it matters what is canon. Another example, one guy might think that the Toa Mangai of the Green should have worn a Mask of Rahi Control, but the Mask of Healing won. It wouldn't make sense for that guy going around s\aying that the Toa Mangai of the Green wore a MoRC.

 

Well many people use it on other threads too, and it annoys me beyond limits. Even in this thread, it was talking about the elements in G1. 

[believe victims]

Another example, one guy might think that the Toa Mangai of the Green should have worn a Mask of Rahi Control, but the Mask of Healing won. It wouldn't make sense for that guy going around s\aying that the Toa Mangai of the Green wore a MoRC.

 

Well many people use it on other threads too, and it annoys me beyond limits. Even in this thread, it was talking about the elements in G1. 

 

Key difference: it's terminology vs. hard facts. You'd be incorrect in saying that Orange Spiders are eight feet tall, even if you felt that made more sense. However, if you called Tahu a Toa of Flame, you wouldn't be incorrect, because "Flame" and "Fire" are synonyms. Sure, people like you might get riled up over it, but to me that's all the more reason for it. Toa of Flame, Toa of Snow, Toa of Dirt, Toa of Rock, Toa of Dihydrogen Monoxide, Toa of Wind. It's all factually correct, just different words.

 

If this annoys you that much, consider this: finding better things to get annoyed about.

[The 1st Shadow]

 

Would you go to watch a bunch of movies that used the exact same cast over and over?

People watched eight Harry Potter movies with no complaints that Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, and Hermione Granger continued to be the protagonists.

 

 

With a new DATDA teacher every year, new enemies, new friends, etc. Sure, those three remained constant, but there were lots of other people, too. What would you say to Tahu, Kopaka, and Gali being joined by Kormou, Gharlax, and Steven? Keep some of the protagonists, while bringing in some fun, new faces.

 

 

 

The point is, doing the exact same thing over and over with the exact same characters and elements is going to be boring for a lot of people. Would you object to having a Purple-and-Blue Toa of say, Gravity or Magnetism? What about an Orange-and-White Toa of Plasma?

Purple-and-blue? Yes. Gravity? Magnetism? Plasma? No way, leave them to settings where they are more suitable. More sci-fi-ish ones.

 

If one is going to add heroes with powers, one should carefully decide which powers are suitable for given setting.

 

 

Okay, you come up with some better elemental examples at 3 in the morning. Purple and blue Master of Crystal or Kinetics. Orange and white Master of... Pie. Use your imagination.

Edited December 6, 2014 by ~T1S~

[Click]

Isn't that exactly what HF did, and a lot of people complained? (Or maybe they didn't and it's a great idea, I don't know).

[believe victims]

 

 

Would you go to watch a bunch of movies that used the exact same cast over and over?

People watched eight Harry Potter movies with no complaints that Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, and Hermione Granger continued to be the protagonists.

 

 

With a new DATDA teacher every year, new enemies, new friends, etc. Sure, those three remained constant, but there were lots of other people, too. What would you say to Tahu, Kopaka, and Gali being joined by Kormou, Gharlax, and Steven? Keep some of the protagonists, while bringing in some fun, new faces.

 

 

The main six Toa are like the main three of Harry Potter. If you got rid of any of them, you'd inspire outrage, because they are such central figures to the plot.

 

New villains are a given, and new friends would just be having new Protectors or other small side characters. New Toa would compete for time, shelf space, and relevance.

[The 1st Shadow]

 

 

 

Would you go to watch a bunch of movies that used the exact same cast over and over?

People watched eight Harry Potter movies with no complaints that Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, and Hermione Granger continued to be the protagonists.

 

 

With a new DATDA teacher every year, new enemies, new friends, etc. Sure, those three remained constant, but there were lots of other people, too. What would you say to Tahu, Kopaka, and Gali being joined by Kormou, Gharlax, and Steven? Keep some of the protagonists, while bringing in some fun, new faces.

 

 

The main six Toa are like the main three of Harry Potter. If you got rid of any of them, you'd inspire outrage, because they are such central figures to the plot.

 

New villains are a given, and new friends would just be having new Protectors or other small side characters. New Toa would compete for time, shelf space, and relevance.

 

What about when LEGO got rid of all six of them? "Here, have some Toa Metru! Here, have some Toa Inika! Oh, have four years passed already? Here, have the Nuva back!"

 

And when they did that, I remember quite a bit of outrage from a lot of people on here. "OMG, why do they keep bringing back the same characters? Yuck, the Newva look gross. We want new Toa!"

 

Am I the only one that remembers any of this?

[believe victims]

What about when LEGO got rid of all six of them? "Here, have some Toa Metru! Here, have some Toa Inika! Oh, have four years passed already? Here, have the Nuva back!"

 

Constant character shifting was a huge problem in G1. Don't assume my logic is inconsistent without knowing where I stand on said "inconsistencies". A solid core cast of characters is important for good storytelling.

 

(Plus there's a difference between shifting focus and changing the makeup of a team. If Harry Potter shifted focus to another three students, it wouldn't be the same as permanently replacing Ron with someone else.)

 

And when they did that, I remember quite a bit of outrage from a lot of people on here. "OMG, why do they keep bringing back the same characters? Yuck, the Newva look gross. We want new Toa!"

 

The Phantoka/Mistika being ugly as sin was entirely separate from whether or not it was a good idea to bring them back in the first place. In fact, you seem to be combining several different view points as if they were all held by one single entity, instead of being differing opinions over a group of people.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Wally

[Rider Of Spiders]

I use Plantlife because before I learned English enough, I visited the Finnish Bionicle Wiki when reading the story. The element was called Kasvillisuus = Vegetation.

 

Toa of Vegetation sounds like a character made to encourage kids to eat broccoli, so Plantlife stuck on me. The Green sounds odd to me.

[Toa Jaxus]

 

One possibility that hasn't been brought up is that the Toa could, thanks to the powers of different Elemental Masks, actually swap elements. For example, Tahu could swap his Mask of Fire for a Mask of Plasma. Cue a color scheme and equipment swap and a new set. 

 

I'd like to know what people think about that. I'm not sure what I think about it. Part of me says that "Tahu is Fire." and you don't do that, and the other half says that could open up a bunch of storyline potential for elements while avoiding BioniClassic character bloat. 

I was thinking of something like this when I was reading through this topic. I think it would be a great idea to not only keep the Gen 2 Toa in the story, it would also give them new powers to use, which keeps them interesting in the story IMO. Or maybe the Toa could have two elements each. Like Lewa having Air and Plantlife elemental powers, or Kopaka having Ice and Gravity powers, just to name a couple examples. That is just my thought on this.

 

To address the topic, I wouldn't mind more elements being added into the story. But I would wait to introduce them until at least the third year of the story or after that, if the line continues into 2018 and/or beyond.

 

 

Well this does lead to a point that has been raised on at least one other thread, that maybe like advanced bending techniques in Avatar the Last airbender. Maybe when a toa gets to a certain level of skill and experience, they can learn new powers associated with their element or new, but related elements. I can't quite remember what was suggested for each element, but it does seem like an interesting idea, the only problem is that I like having toa of different elements more than the enhanced elements idea.

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

I use Plantlife because before I learned English enough, I visited the Finnish Bionicle Wiki when reading the story. The element was called Kasvillisuus = Vegetation.

 

Toa of Vegetation sounds like a character made to encourage kids to eat broccoli, so Plantlife stuck on me. The Green sounds odd to me.

 

Also, if i recall, toa of "The Green" are about 50% or more blue, so it's awkward and misleading..

[The 1st Shadow]

 

What about when LEGO got rid of all six of them? "Here, have some Toa Metru! Here, have some Toa Inika! Oh, have four years passed already? Here, have the Nuva back!"

 

Constant character shifting was a huge problem in G1. Don't assume my logic is inconsistent without knowing where I stand on said "inconsistencies". A solid core cast of characters is important for good storytelling.

 

(Plus there's a difference between shifting focus and changing the makeup of a team. If Harry Potter shifted focus to another three students, it wouldn't be the same as permanently replacing Ron with someone else.)

 

And when they did that, I remember quite a bit of outrage from a lot of people on here. "OMG, why do they keep bringing back the same characters? Yuck, the Newva look gross. We want new Toa!"

 

The Phantoka/Mistika being ugly as sin was entirely separate from whether or not it was a good idea to bring them back in the first place. In fact, you seem to be combining several different view points as if they were all held by one single entity, instead of being differing opinions over a group of people.

 

Agreed. But you should try to explain yourself in the future. Context is not just a friendly suggestion.

 

Who said anything would be permanent? What if Lewa, Pohatu, and Onua got captured by the villain and the remaining three needed to team up with some new characters to get them back? That's not permanent--That's Spiderman joining the X-men to fill an open spot for a little while before going back to his own thing.

 

As for that last bit, I was bringing up comments that were rather abundant back then. It wasn't just the sets--there were a lot of people who were averse to having the Nuva back again.

Edited December 6, 2014 by ~T1S~

[believe victims]

Who said anything would be permanent? What if Lewa, Pohatu, and Onua got captured by the villain and the remaining three needed to team up with some new characters to get them back? That's not permanent--That's Spiderman joining the X-men to fill an open spot for a little while before going back to his own thing.

 

 You'd want Lewa, Pohatu, and Onua to be completely useless and practically irrelevant for an entire story year just to introduce new characters? To bring back the Harry Potter comparison, that'd be like if Ron got kidnapped at the beginning of a book and didn't appear at all until the very end.

 

And again, I find the scenario of G2 bringing in new elements anyway, because Okoto is fairly strictly limited to 6 elements, and we have nothing yet to suggest we'll go anywhere else. After all, one of the reasons Bionicle switched locations is because it was all part of the giant robot twist, and we don't have that twist this time.

[The 1st Shadow]

 

Who said anything would be permanent? What if Lewa, Pohatu, and Onua got captured by the villain and the remaining three needed to team up with some new characters to get them back? That's not permanent--That's Spiderman joining the X-men to fill an open spot for a little while before going back to his own thing.

 

 You'd want Lewa, Pohatu, and Onua to be completely useless and practically irrelevant for an entire story year just to introduce new characters? To bring back the Harry Potter comparison, that'd be like if Ron got kidnapped at the beginning of a book and didn't appear at all until the very end.

 

And again, I find the scenario of G2 bringing in new elements anyway, because Okoto is fairly strictly limited to 6 elements, and we have nothing yet to suggest we'll go anywhere else. After all, one of the reasons Bionicle switched locations is because it was all part of the giant robot twist, and we don't have that twist this time.

 

Well, that is kinda how imprisonment works. It's worked well before. And it could be for just one wave. One winter, we get Tahu, and those others, then in the summer, we get Lewa, Pohatu, and Onua alongside the villains. Simple. The story doesn't have to take place over the course of a single wave--it could be a year-long story.

 

Okoto's got to be on a planet of some sort, and I seriously doubt that one small island is the only land mass. There could be a whole archipelago out there with different elemental tribes. 

[fishers64]

G1 had other names to describe the Green. The Makuta power was Plant Control, and the Agori tribe was Jungle. Why make up a word that never existed in canon? Plus, the Element Lord of Jungle was called "Master of the Green" in Riddle of the Great Beings. So, it doesn't matter what "makes more sense", it matters what is canon. 

Yes, but canon has to make sense. Otherwise, nobody finds it enjoyable anymore. Especially right now, with the trend toward "honest trailers" and "tropes" that micro-analyze every possible logical inconsistency. It's almost like no one knows how to sit back, relax, and enjoy a story anymore.

 

But even before this trend came about, if something didn't add up right, people would complain about it. Given that stories are supposed to please people and provide enjoyment, that's bad.

 

Now, in the insignificant matter of a name, this is probably not a necessarily story ruining thing. But I could just have easily argue that since the Agori tribe was called Jungle, the Toa element should be the same to be consistent - after all, it's just as poetic and vague as the Green. (In fact, they did that in Gen 2, so the latter probably actually does make more sense. Especially on Okoto.)   

[Toa Malachives]

 

Because Plantlife is far more descriptive as a name than the Green. Would you honestly start calling the lement of Ice 'the White', if that was how it was described in-story?

 

 

But Plantlife is a non-canon name for the element, the Green. That excuse is awful. When you google "the green" a definition box comes up and a definition of it was something along the lines of "covered with plants". If you google, "the white", all that comes up is "the white house".

Does it matter? Who cares whet people call it if if makes sense!

 

 

I do like the idea of other elements that sort of exist near other elements, plasma with fire, lighting with water?, earth with crystal, ect

[Pomegranate]

It would be nice to see new things, but no matter how many elements you can cram amongst the characters, it will have absolutely no impact on the quality of the story. I feel it's not necessary. Leaving the "other" elements to the baddies seems more than fine. There's a reason they're called "elements" and not just "powers", it's because of their relation to nature. Lewa already got the overarching theme of Jungle covering plantlife, and that doesn't really leave any basic elements of life unrepresented. Plasma, gravity, iron, sonics, and whatever else was canon in Gen 1 does not resonate nearly as well as the core elements of the Masters (that wasn't a sonics pun). Variety for the sake of variety is going the opposite way of the story team's vision for the reboot, which is to make everything more simple and focused. 

[The 1st Shadow]

It would be nice to see new things, but no matter how many elements you can cram amongst the characters, it will have absolutely no impact on the quality of the story. I feel it's not necessary. Leaving the "other" elements to the baddies seems more than fine. There's a reason they're called "elements" and not just "powers", it's because of their relation to nature. Lewa already got the overarching theme of Jungle covering plantlife, and that doesn't really leave any basic elements of life unrepresented. Plasma, gravity, iron, sonics, and whatever else was canon in Gen 1 does not resonate nearly as well as the core elements of the Masters (that wasn't a sonics pun). Variety for the sake of variety is going the opposite way of the story team's vision for the reboot, which is to make everything more simple and focused. 

Lightning is natural. Light is natural. Sound is natural. 

 

Actually, consider Fire--it's a phenomena, just like most of those others. Plantlife, water, earth, stone--Those are constants. So is gravity. Planets have magnetic fields, as well. Those two are constant natural forces, while fire is less common. Fire happens. If "natural" is what dictates the elements, then fire should be kicked out, since it is formed by a mixture of some of the other constants. And yet, there is stands--a temporary phenomena amongst the constant forces of nature.

 

And we can say the same thing about Light, Sonics, and Lightning. Personally, I'd be fine with having just those three later on in the new series.  No need for plasma and the others.

 

Just my thoughts on that.

Edited December 6, 2014 by ~T1S~

[Boidoh]

Lightning is Plasma... I never understood the separation. I guess it's like having a Toa of Earth and a Toa of Stone.