Whitewashing in the Bionicle fandom

[Toa Kayn]

Ok fine. You guys are right. I have no right to police other people's behavior. I was unreasonable.

 

I was wrong.

 

You win.

 

Your cause is noble

[Vraiment]

Let me ask you a question, is there anyone who has posted in this thread who is not white?  Cause I have a feeling most of you are.

 

Yes, I am from Mexico and therefor "latino". Let me tell you a story. Back in 2000 I used to visit a lot the lego web page. Specially the sections about Throwbots and Roboriders. Suddenly this annoying teaser about other franchise would appear and it seems so lame. One day, after ignoring it a lot, out of curiosity I clicked it and BAM I was in the Bionicle website. Despite I didn't understood a word (back then I didn't speak english) it trapped me, it was awesome! I even remember playing through the entire entire MNOG without understanding a thing of the dialogs and my dad translating the closing conversation between Vakama and Takua.

 

I remember I sent a mail to LEGO asking them if they could translate the Bionicle website to spanish. Obviously a single little boy wasn't a excuse big enough to going through all the trouble ($) of translating the website. It wasn't racist, it was business. And it the long run it was better, I learnt english and now I can communicate in two different languages, something that I'm greatly thankful as I'm a developer and 99% of the good stuff about programming is in english as the USA produces most of it.

 

I have always find this "skin color" issue to be silly and here is why. This is a photo of my arm. If I stand right next to a very very white people I'll look like a "moreno" or people of color or whatever you wanna call it. If I stand next to someone native from Africa with a very dark skin tone I'll look like a "güero" or white or whatever. So you could classify me as BOTH, white or people of color. And is just silly and irrelevant. As long as I don't go asking the guy from Africa to clean my shoes because I am "the superior race" or go assaulting and hitting the white guy because I don't want to be oppressed by him, is totally irrelevant.

 

I don't think you are wrong, you are just doing it from the wrong perspective, as Toa Kayn said your cause is noble.

 

The artist very likely doesn't even think that the characters they are drawing could be black, "moreno", "yellow" or even fuchsia. They draw white because what they know is white, they are ignorant and that's fine, everybody is born ignorant. As I said before, the best thing you could do is point it out in a positive manner, that way you will enrich the artist and consequently its art.

[CaT in Rogue]

Ok fine. You guys are right. I have no right to police other people's behavior. I was unreasonable.

 

I was wrong.

 

You win.

That's...actually pretty big of you to admit.

 

Color me impressed.

[Mel]

 

Let me ask you a question, is there anyone who has posted in this thread who is not white?  Cause I have a feeling most of you are.

 

Yes, I am from Mexico and therefor "latino". Let me tell you a story. Back in 2000 I used to visit a lot the lego web page. Specially the sections about Throwbots and Roboriders. Suddenly this annoying teaser about other franchise would appear and it seems so lame. One day, after ignoring it a lot, out of curiosity I clicked it and BAM I was in the Bionicle website. Despite I didn't understood a word (back then I didn't speak english) it trapped me, it was awesome! I even remember playing through the entire entire MNOG without understanding a thing of the dialogs and my dad translating the closing conversation between Vakama and Takua.

 

I remember I sent a mail to LEGO asking them if they could translate the Bionicle website to spanish. Obviously a single little boy wasn't a excuse big enough to going through all the trouble ($) of translating the website. It wasn't racist, it was business. And it the long run it was better, I learnt english and now I can communicate in two different languages, something that I'm greatly thankful as I'm a developer and 99% of the good stuff about programming is in english as the USA produces most of it.

 

I have always find this "skin color" issue to be silly and here is why. This is a photo of my arm. If I stand right next to a very very white people I'll look like a "moreno" or people of color or whatever you wanna call it. If I stand next to someone native from Africa with a very dark skin tone I'll look like a "güero" or white or whatever. So you could classify me as BOTH, white or people of color. And is just silly and irrelevant. As long as I don't go asking the guy from Africa to clean my shoes because I am "the superior race" or go assaulting and hitting the white guy because I don't want to be oppressed by him, is totally irrelevant.

 

I don't think you are wrong, you are just doing it from the wrong perspective, as Toa Kayn said your cause is noble.

 

The artist very likely doesn't even think that the characters they are drawing could be black, "moreno", "yellow" or even ###### fuchsia. They draw white because what they know is white, they are ignorant and that's fine, everybody is born ignorant. As I said before, the best thing you could do is point it out in a positive manner, that way you will enrich the artist and consequently its art.

 

That is actually a bit of an indicator of structural imperialism.  Why did Lego assume there wouldn't be Spanish speakers willing to buy their toys?  It's one of the most widely spoken languages in the world.

 

Look, the OP doesn't have the power to lock you up for drawing Bionicle characters as white.  There is no sensitivity police that are going to lock you up and force you to include more people of color.  But what OP is trying to say is that sort of thing is a little bit problematic (not to mention a bit basic).  I mean, the world is a big place with all kinds of people--why is it that your characters all turn out looking like white Europeans.

 

That said, I going off on a headcannon tangent I would think that the Mata Nuian matoran, having migrated from a trade center like Metru Nui, would be fairly diverse.  Of course, that said, one wonder's that where the Maori aspects of their culture came from.... (this is what you get when your worldbuilding goes only as far as to justify a toy line unfortunately)

[Toa Kayn]

Look, the OP doesn't have the power to lock you up for drawing Bionicle characters as white.  There is no sensitivity police that are going to lock you up and force you to include more people of color.  But what OP is trying to say is that sort of thing is a little bit problematic (not to mention a bit basic).  I mean, the world is a big place with all kinds of people--why is it that your characters all turn out looking like white Europeans.

 

There's the point already mentioned about local familiarization. Anyone drawing for fun shouldn't need to cater to the whole world.

[Vraiment]

 

 

 

 

Let me ask you a question, is there anyone who has posted in this thread who is not white? Cause I have a feeling most of you are.

Yes, I am from Mexico and therefor "latino". Let me tell you a story. Back in 2000 I used to visit a lot the lego web page. Specially the sections about Throwbots and Roboriders. Suddenly this annoying teaser about other franchise would appear and it seems so lame. One day, after ignoring it a lot, out of curiosity I clicked it and BAM I was in the Bionicle website. Despite I didn't understood a word (back then I didn't speak english) it trapped me, it was awesome! I even remember playing through the entire entire MNOG without understanding a thing of the dialogs and my dad translating the closing conversation between Vakama and Takua.

 

I remember I sent a mail to LEGO asking them if they could translate the Bionicle website to spanish. Obviously a single little boy wasn't a excuse big enough to going through all the trouble ($) of translating the website. It wasn't racist, it was business. And it the long run it was better, I learnt english and now I can communicate in two different languages, something that I'm greatly thankful as I'm a developer and 99% of the good stuff about programming is in english as the USA produces most of it.

 

I have always find this "skin color" issue to be silly and here is why. This is a photo of my arm. If I stand right next to a very very white people I'll look like a "moreno" or people of color or whatever you wanna call it. If I stand next to someone native from Africa with a very dark skin tone I'll look like a "güero" or white or whatever. So you could classify me as BOTH, white or people of color. And is just silly and irrelevant. As long as I don't go asking the guy from Africa to clean my shoes because I am "the superior race" or go assaulting and hitting the white guy because I don't want to be oppressed by him, is totally irrelevant.

 

I don't think you are wrong, you are just doing it from the wrong perspective, as Toa Kayn said your cause is noble.

 

The artist very likely doesn't even think that the characters they are drawing could be black, "moreno", "yellow" or even ###### fuchsia. They draw white because what they know is white, they are ignorant and that's fine, everybody is born ignorant. As I said before, the best thing you could do is point it out in a positive manner, that way you will enrich the artist and consequently its art.

That is actually a bit of an indicator of structural imperialism. Why did Lego assume there wouldn't be Spanish speakers willing to buy their toys? It's one of the most widely spoken languages in the world

No is not. They knew there would be spanish speakers because they sold sets (even before Throwbots) un Latin America and Spain.

 

Now lets add a little context:

 

A. Back then the trent of internet conection in houses was just beginnig in the USA and (saddly) as a general rule Latin America is a little behind of USA in techonology stuff. Therefor it was VERY WEIRD for people to have internet connection un their homes here un Mexico. I was lucky to have internet un muy home.

 

B. LEGO was comming going to bankrupcy, they didn't have resources to translate the web page to spanish (and as far as I remember to any other languages other than German or Finish I dont remember). Add that to A and it sounds like shooting yourself in the foot to waste money in using resources ($) translating.

 

I have to add that later media was translated (comics, movida, books). Failing to doing so would be very stupid from a business perspective as they are letting go possible profit.

 

Right now TLM appeared in mexican theaters, China is aires by mexican Cartoon Network and the new Bionicle website is available un spanish.

[Kek]

Ok fine. You guys are right. I have no right to police other people's behavior. I was unreasonable.

 

I was wrong.

 

You win.

Nobody really wins. This wasn't a competition. You have my respect for being humble, yet if somebody did win anything, it's those who learned something from this. Don't be too hard on yourself.

 

No personal animosity toward you, Sailor. I'm not going to judge your character entirely off of one obscure topic. I'm sure this could also be said for plenty of other users here. Have a good one.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Kek

[LegoSWfan]

Yes you shouldn't judge someone from a few controversial posts.

[Kek]

Yes you shouldn't judge someone from a few controversial posts.

Precisely. I've seen one too many do this, though.

[LegoSWfan]

 

Yes you shouldn't judge someone from a few controversial posts.

Precisely. I've seen one too many do this, though.

Such is the world of online forums, first impressions are made from the first posts.

[fishers64]

 

 

Yes you shouldn't judge someone from a few controversial posts.

Precisely. I've seen one too many do this, though.

Such is the world of online forums, first impressions are made from the first posts.

 

Yes, but unlike in a job interview, your impression can improve with time.

 

I never really saw this whole idea as too big of a deal either way, but that's because I feel so inclined on these things in general. Let the artists draw what they wish. 

[LegoSWfan]

Indeed.

[Palm]

 

point it out in a positive manner, that way you will enrich the artist and consequently its art.

 

This really says my own thoughts on the manner. Most people don't draw things the way they do intentionally. This isn't always a problem, but in the longest term it can lead to minor issues that contribute to larger problems that already exist.

 

Really, you shouldn't fault an artist for how they portray things. That being said, if it's brought up to them and they refuse to acknowledge the potential issue then there's an active issue at hand instead of a passive one. I've always considered this as something worth faulting somebody for. For example, if somebody tweets at somebody about racists jokes being made, and the person that makes the joke responds with an equally unkind gesture, they've gone from being passive to active and should certainly be faulted for their rude indifference: Somebody pointed out something they could use to improve themselves, and instead they were aggressively defensive.

 

Honestly, I'm at least half decent with an artist saying "I understand the concern, and I can't promise how I deal with what I've already portrayed to be different, but I'll keep this in mind for future works" instead of being aggressively defensive. It at least means that there's semblance of improvement in the future.

 

I'm not sure. I think that it's best to try and educate first and then wait for judgement upon hearing or reading a response. Ask for an artist's thoughts on the matter too maybe? This way the artist can look at things critically and maybe do some research as to how they portray work being important or not.

 

Personally, I think that in humanized art of Bionicle, drawing from a variety of ethnic groups is good. The world is vast and diverse and so are the characters! It only makes logical sense that the humanized characters would reflect that.

 

Also, this whole argument of "social justice warrioring" is really starting to bore me. It's good not to be overzealous over a variety of issues - especially ones that require great discussion between peoples - but I see no issue with looking at work critically and caring about the things you discover. A better argument would be to debunk what the so-called "sjw" is trying to say instead of just dismissing it entirely without doing your own research or looking things up on your own.

[Bedrock1]

Ironic when an obvious bait topic ends up agreeing with the people it's attempting to bait.

Uhh, most of the people here are disagreeing with the OP. The ones that are agreeing with it are really just following Poe's law.

Not denying that it's a bait thread though.

I had a link here to DV complaining about this post on his tumblr, but apparently DV's tumblr is inappropriate. Link with inappropriate language removed. -B6

Edited December 11, 2014 by Black Six

[SailorQuaoar]

Ok yeah I was kind of too aggressive and unreasonable. I wasn't entirely honest with my words, and I'm sorry for that.

But there have been threads on this very site that have argued similar things about race and culture, just with Ninjago instead of Bionicle. And a lot about genders too.

 

This is an issue that legitimately bothers me though, so let me give you guys my real opinions.

 

The very nature of art is that everything is open to interpretation. However, when doing fanart, a certain amount of your material is fixed, because it's based off an existing work.

 

If you were to do fanart of the Toa Mata but draw them as Medieval knights instead of Maori warriors, well I guess you could. But why would you? Bionicle is very obviously not a Medieval European (aka "generic fantasy") setting. It just wouldn't make sense. There's nothing on Mata Nui that even remotely suggests the European Middle Ages, or the modern era. Really, even most other places in Bionicle doesn't fit into that aesthetic.

 

Also, one of the big reasons Bionicle stood out (at least to me) was that it was probably the most famous speculative fiction work that used a Polynesian setting.

Pretty much all of Lego's other IPs are Sci-fi or Medieval Europe. And really, I can't think of another fantasy setting that uses a Pacific Islander base.

 

And that's why I don't understand people who draw Bionicle characters in modern day or Eurocentric settings. You've already got a pretty cool aesthetic to work from and yet way too many people ignore it.

 

Yeah "they can draw what they want" but it just seems like more work to deliberately use an unfitting setting.

[LegoSWfan]

So, its their art. Why should it matter to you what they draw?

[The 1st Shadow]

I'm just curious about one thing. You keep stating that BIONICLE is based entirely off of Polynesian culture. However, your only example of this at any given time is the temporary island of Mata Nui. It doesn't make sense.

 

They lived for 99,000 years in a city that clearly resembled nothing of what you're suggesting. Then, sudden destruction and desperate circumstances forced them to live on an island that wasn't even intended for them to inhabit. The same thing goes for the Matoran of Voya Nui--they were originally part of the larger continent that later got shot out of the GSR.

 

From a story perspective, your argument makes zero sense. 

[FallenCor]

<:I

 

Pardon if I'm misunderstanding your meaning, Sailor, but that kind of limits the range in which I, or anyone else, can draw these characters. I can only draw Bionicle characters if they conform to the 2001 theme? Personally, I see no reason not to draw them in "modern form" because they did originally come from a tech-based island. As for other themes, what if I wanted to goof around and show people some silly drawings of the Toa as knights, or even ninja or pirates? Heck, just last week I drew the Supernatural cast as pokemon gijinkas! My friends and I had fun talking about what pokemon moves they would use. We do this kind of thing with fictional characters all the time, not to offend anyone, but to explore and expand our artistic abilities.

 

And as I mentioned before, the Matoran originate in a futuristic setting, one in which they aren't outside as much as they were on Mata Nui (I like the idea of Onu-Matoran being somewhat albino). It would make sense, however, for their skin to darken over the years while on Mata Nui, perhaps, but not for them to have a tribal culture from the get-go. I always saw the 2001 versions of the characters as being like those poor people on The Walking Dead -- all kinds from all walks of life, being forced into making up one new culture, so to speak.

 

As for people "drawing what they are familiar with," this happens in EVERY country. I've seen a ton of Bad Cop/Good Cop fan art in which he looks very Polynesian, despite the fact that he has an Irish accent. Being half Irish myself, I could claim offense, but I actually find it fascinating.

Edited December 9, 2014 by SilverCor

[Aanchir]

Something else to keep in mind is that many human depictions of the characters are also intentionally "alternate universe" depictions of the characters, and as such, there is room for creative liberties in terms of characters' cultural. Rather than trying to directly adapt the characters to an identical version of their universe simply populated by humans, some people might deliberately put them in an American high school setting, a feudal Japanese setting, or a medieval European setting rather than a tribal Polynesian setting. Some examples of alternate universe stories that deliberately change the context of the characters, not just their appearance, include My Little Pony: Equestria Girls and Marvel 1602.

 

Of course, this kind of thing should ideally be done to exercise the creative muscles, not to relax them. It's no "get-out-of-jail-free" card for avoiding diversity in one's drawings, especially since you are still free to fictionalize the context as much as you choose. If you want to include one or more dark-skinned Moorish characters in "The Court of His Lordship Mata Nui", there's no reason you can't dream up a plausible justification for that decision.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Aanchir

[bioniclepluslotr]

If you guys are looking for discrimination within Lego, it's probably their glorification of humans always being the good guy and every other species is probably the villain. Power Miners, Atlantis, and that space police thingy all revolved around yellow humans going into the other groups' territories and messing stuff up, and they were marketed as the good guys. The Atlantis theme really irked me since I've been a marine environmental activist for many years, and Lego was selling sets with animals and little guys with harpoon guns. Also, the whole space cop thing with all human cops and all bad aliens bothered me too. And these weren't some random fan arts by fans. This went through Lego's official promotional teams and stuff.

[Mel]

No is not. They knew there would be spanish speakers because they sold sets (even before Throwbots) un Latin America and Spain.

Now lets add a little context:

 

A. Back then the trent of internet conection in houses was just beginnig in the USA and (saddly) as a general rule Latin America is a little behind of USA in techonology stuff. Therefor it was VERY WEIRD for people to have internet connection un their homes here un Mexico. I was lucky to have internet un muy home.

 

B. LEGO was comming going to bankrupcy, they didn't have resources to translate the web page to spanish (and as far as I remember to any other languages other than German or Finish I dont remember). Add that to A and it sounds like shooting yourself in the foot to waste money in using resources ($) translating.

 

I have to add that later media was translated (comics, movida, books). Failing to doing so would be very stupid from a business perspective as they are letting go possible profit.

 

Right now TLM appeared in mexican theaters, China is aires by mexican Cartoon Network and the new Bionicle website is available un spanish.

 

My apologies then.  However, in that case it isn't really comparable--a company deciding whether to allocate resources to a laborious process like translation is different from an artist deciding whether or not to include certain details in their art.

 

There's the point already mentioned about local familiarization. Anyone drawing for fun shouldn't need to cater to the whole world.

 

No one needs to do anything.  However, personally I am not really interested in art that just repeats what has been done too many times already.  Representation isn't just a issue of being politically correct--it's an issue of reflecting reality.  I have a hard time believing that most authors live in areas that are 100% white-coded European.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Mel

[Toa Kayn]

 

There's the point already mentioned about local familiarization. Anyone drawing for fun shouldn't need to cater to the whole world.

 

No one needs to do anything.  However, personally I am not really interested in art that just repeats what has been done too many times already.  Representation isn't just a issue of being politically correct--it's an issue of reflecting reality.  I have a hard time believing that most authors live in areas that are 100% white-coded European.

 

 

We're talking about a medium that comes straight from the mind. It never needs to reflect reality.

 

 

If you guys are looking for discrimination within Lego, it's probably their glorification of humans always being the good guy and every other species is probably the villain. Power Miners, Atlantis, and that space police thingy all revolved around yellow humans going into the other groups' territories and messing stuff up, and they were marketed as the good guys. The Atlantis theme really irked me since I've been a marine environmental activist for many years, and Lego was selling sets with animals and little guys with harpoon guns. Also, the whole space cop thing with all human cops and all bad aliens bothered me too. And these weren't some random fan arts by fans. This went through Lego's official promotional teams and stuff.

 

 

I think the focus on invading habitats and such is completely unintentional. I see it more of a checklist for the target audience.

New area: Space, Ocean, Underground?

New Objective: Justice, Artifacts, Gems

New Obstacle: Alien criminals, evil animal hybrids, strange rock monsters.

I mean the whole thing is aimed at children who do many other things apart from play with LEGO and the company uses a demographic to come up with the ideas. What's going to be a hit with the kids this time?

 

I understand what you're saying though. 

Edited December 12, 2014 by Toa Kayn

[LegoSWfan]

If you guys are looking for discrimination within Lego, it's probably their glorification of humans always being the good guy and every other species is probably the villain. Power Miners, Atlantis, and that space police thingy all revolved around yellow humans going into the other groups' territories and messing stuff up, and they were marketed as the good guys. The Atlantis theme really irked me since I've been a marine environmental activist for many years, and Lego was selling sets with animals and little guys with harpoon guns. Also, the whole space cop thing with all human cops and all bad aliens bothered me too. And these weren't some random fan arts by fans. This went through Lego's official promotional teams and stuff.

I think its safe to say Logos just a little bit specist.

If you guys are looking for discrimination within Lego, it's probably their glorification of humans always being the good guy and every other species is probably the villain. Power Miners, Atlantis, and that space police thingy all revolved around yellow humans going into the other groups' territories and messing stuff up, and they were marketed as the good guys. The Atlantis theme really irked me since I've been a marine environmental activist for many years, and Lego was selling sets with animals and little guys with harpoon guns. Also, the whole space cop thing with all human cops and all bad aliens bothered me too. And these weren't some random fan arts by fans. This went through Lego's official promotional teams and stuff.

I think its safe to say Legos just a little bit specist.

Whoops! Double quoted!

[bioniclepluslotr]

 

If you guys are looking for discrimination within Lego, it's probably their glorification of humans always being the good guy and every other species is probably the villain. Power Miners, Atlantis, and that space police thingy all revolved around yellow humans going into the other groups' territories and messing stuff up, and they were marketed as the good guys. The Atlantis theme really irked me since I've been a marine environmental activist for many years, and Lego was selling sets with animals and little guys with harpoon guns. Also, the whole space cop thing with all human cops and all bad aliens bothered me too. And these weren't some random fan arts by fans. This went through Lego's official promotional teams and stuff.

 

 

I think the focus on invading habitats and such is completely unintentional. I see it more of a checklist for the target audience.

New area: Space, Ocean, Underground?

New Objective: Justice, Artifacts, Gems

New Obstacle: Alien criminals, evil animal hybrids, strange rock monsters.

I mean the whole thing is aimed at children who do many other things apart from play with LEGO and the company uses a demographic to come up with the ideas. What's going to be a hit with the kids this time?

 

I understand what you're saying though. 

 

If they made a set featuring only non-humans I would've gotten it as a kid. I hated humans, that's why I've only bought Bionicles since 2001, and lately some HF and Chima.

[Jacks]

 

 

If you guys are looking for discrimination within Lego, it's probably their glorification of humans always being the good guy and every other species is probably the villain. Power Miners, Atlantis, and that space police thingy all revolved around yellow humans going into the other groups' territories and messing stuff up, and they were marketed as the good guys. The Atlantis theme really irked me since I've been a marine environmental activist for many years, and Lego was selling sets with animals and little guys with harpoon guns. Also, the whole space cop thing with all human cops and all bad aliens bothered me too. And these weren't some random fan arts by fans. This went through Lego's official promotional teams and stuff.

 

I think the focus on invading habitats and such is completely unintentional. I see it more of a checklist for the target audience.

New area: Space, Ocean, Underground?

New Objective: Justice, Artifacts, Gems

New Obstacle: Alien criminals, evil animal hybrids, strange rock monsters.

I mean the whole thing is aimed at children who do many other things apart from play with LEGO and the company uses a demographic to come up with the ideas. What's going to be a hit with the kids this time?

 

I understand what you're saying though.

 

If they made a set featuring only non-humans I would've gotten it as a kid. I hated humans, that's why I've only bought Bionicles since 2001, and lately some HF and Chima.

 

SAME THOUGH

 

like that is exactly why Life On Mars was and is my favorite theme -- because there, the humans were the invaders

[bioniclepluslotr]

 

 

 

If you guys are looking for discrimination within Lego, it's probably their glorification of humans always being the good guy and every other species is probably the villain. Power Miners, Atlantis, and that space police thingy all revolved around yellow humans going into the other groups' territories and messing stuff up, and they were marketed as the good guys. The Atlantis theme really irked me since I've been a marine environmental activist for many years, and Lego was selling sets with animals and little guys with harpoon guns. Also, the whole space cop thing with all human cops and all bad aliens bothered me too. And these weren't some random fan arts by fans. This went through Lego's official promotional teams and stuff.

 

I think the focus on invading habitats and such is completely unintentional. I see it more of a checklist for the target audience.

New area: Space, Ocean, Underground?

New Objective: Justice, Artifacts, Gems

New Obstacle: Alien criminals, evil animal hybrids, strange rock monsters.

I mean the whole thing is aimed at children who do many other things apart from play with LEGO and the company uses a demographic to come up with the ideas. What's going to be a hit with the kids this time?

 

I understand what you're saying though.

 

If they made a set featuring only non-humans I would've gotten it as a kid. I hated humans, that's why I've only bought Bionicles since 2001, and lately some HF and Chima.

 

SAME THOUGH

 

like that is exactly why Life On Mars was and is my favorite theme -- because there, the humans were the invaders

 

Lego wiki says "This the first and only theme that has both Humans and Aliens at peace together."

Edited December 13, 2014 by bioniclepluslotr

[LegoSWfan]

Its a hard life being a Lego alien. It seems no matter where you live, humans are out to get you.

[Iblis]

Its a hard life being a Lego alien. It seems no matter where you live, humans are out to get you.

 

Seems pretty consistent with reality ^{(Although there are many exceptions!)}

It would be nice to something the other way around, well,  I doubt they would not have some good humans (& I don't have an issue with that); but I think "both Humans and Aliens at peace together" was pretty apparent with Life on Mars, so whilst the circumstances of human colonisation there & are very vague; we don't have to read in bad things there

I thought it was an alright theme

[LegoSWfan]

I'd like to see a theme with no human mini figs. Just to mix it up.

[dotcom]

I'd like to see a theme with no human mini figs. Just to mix it up.

Chima? That's a thing. Unless you mean a space theme or such.

 

Not really sure how this conversation relates to the original point of the topic but....

[LegoSWfan]

China doesn't count, their still humanoid mini figs.

 

I don't know either...

[The 1st Shadow]

China doesn't count, their still humanoid mini figs.

 

I don't know either...

 

Humanoid:

"a being resembling a human in its shape."

 

The aliens from Life on Mars are humanoid, as they bore the same general shape. The shape of a Minifig doesn't have anything to do with species. The Chima characters are anthropomorphic animals, and hardly human in any respects besides social structure. 

 

So, Chima counts. It's one of the only themes that had no humans in it whatsoever. 

[SailorQuaoar]

I think my words got a bit mis-interpreted. Again, I don't want to police anyone's art. I can't force anyone to draw or not draw something.

 

And it's not even about "diversity". It's about respecting the culture by depicting the characters in a way that makes sense with the setting.

 

Some people on tumblr have racebent Lord of the Rings characters into black, Asian and/or Latino characters. I'm against that because LOTR is a European setting based on Anglo-Saxon mythology. It wouldn't fit the setting because LOTR is a European-based setting. And that's okay.

 

I mean yeah you're free to draw bonkles however you want. Or write them. But just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Before you get the urge to write that highschool AU fanfic where the Toa are angsty teens with no powers, think to yourself "is this a stupid idea?" Because it probably is.

 

Also, I know a guy from New Zealand (won't names names for now) who is Maori. While Bionicle's representation wasn't perfect (see the "Tohunga" controversy) it was pretty much the biggest piece of fiction that was based on Maori/Polynesian culture, and he told me that it was one of the reasons Bionicle meant a lot to him. Even though in-story the Matoran were only on Mata Nui for a (relatively) short while, it's the era that everyone remembers. And that's why it matters.

 

It's not about "restricting creativity". It's about respecting the culture of Bionicle's roots. And really, if you can't be creative without involving white people then well, that joke writes itself.

[Tuuli]

I didn't think they were white except Kopaka

[Iblis]

It's not about "restricting creativity". It's about respecting the culture of Bionicle's roots. And really, if you can't be creative without involving white people then well, that joke writes itself.

 

Actually, whatever something is, & however respectful it is or isn't seen as;

Something needing to "respect" something is a restriction, that doesn't necessarily mean it's an unreasonable restriction but I think more reasons should be needed than what have been presented...

 

Also, I know a guy from New Zealand (won't names names for now) who is Maori. While Bionicle's representation wasn't perfect (see the "Tohunga" controversy) it was pretty much the biggest piece of fiction that was based on Maori/Polynesian culture, and he told me that it was one of the reasons Bionicle meant a lot to him. Even though in-story the Matoran were only on Mata Nui for a (relatively) short while, it's the era that everyone remembers. And that's why it matters.

 

I think that's really cool, although I don't think that's makes transferring a Matoran/Toa/Turaga's less respectful considering there is much more to the Bionicle universe, so there are more connections & comparisons that can be called on beyond the language and feel of 2001, 2002, & 2003.

& even if there wasn't, I can believe that there were various people out their who didn't know anything about the Māori connections that Bionicle drew on; I'm sure their were some that just thought it was generally tribal; and well ethnicities are complicated enough that I could see someone still managing to transfer that tribal into 'white', which might end up transfering into something distinctly caucasian.

 

But regardless of people making connections to any given race; these thoughts may be more or less central into someones mind; they might think of all these other 'respectful' issues; but their image of a human Matoran/Toa/Turaga might have already 'solidified' as something else; saying that they can't do that because that is disrespectful &/or perpetuates racial this that or the other.

 

An artist presenting a non-human as any specific race, however much that story's universe was inspired by a given ethnicity, presenting something contrary to that does not necasarily imply that any race or ethnicity is better than another or anything else; and frankly I see nothing that is disrespectful other than that; so as racism doesn't seem to be intrinsic to adapting_a_non-human-into-a-human-of-a-certain-race, then frankly: your saying something is disrespectful is actual pretty insulting, I'm not offended, but saying you're not trying to 'police something but people should be respectful' seems very domineering. Mostly because the reason you've given for it don't seem to exist within it...

 

^{(and considering the canon story doesn't imply any such things; & real-life Bionicle isn't exactly what this community is about ...seems overly general to go saying in the bionicle fandom; plenty of people ahve nothing to do with that sub-interest of a sub-interest...)}

[bioniclepluslotr]

I still don't know what the OP is referring to about Toa being white. Like where are you finding these things?

[Iblis]

I still don't know what the OP is referring to about Toa being white. Like where are you finding these things?

 

Yeah I would have thought one would need to spend a fair while looking for fanworks generally, or if you go looking for it explicitly...

So yeah... the gripe seems to be 'targeted' a bit too generally for what it is... ^{(or was this just about the use of the word "white"?)}

[LegoSWfan]

Again, dose it matter what OTHER artists do? OP?

[SailorQuaoar]

Again, dose it matter what OTHER artists do? OP?

 

Yes, it does. Because they're misrepresenting the franchise. And cultural ignorance is no excuse.

 

You guys would be mad if an artist/writer had a poor representation of women, right? So why let whitewashing slide? They're both bad.

 

BZP tears apart any artist who dares to draw "pinup" style Bionicle art. But yet you guy say nothing when it comes to this kind of stuff. That's a big double standard.

Edited December 13, 2014 by SailorQuaoar

[The 1st Shadow]

 

Again, dose it matter what OTHER artists do? OP?

 

Yes, it does. Because they're misrepresenting the franchise. And cultural ignorance is no excuse.

 

You guys would be mad if an artist/writer had a poor representation of women, right? So why let whitewashing slide? They're both bad.

 

BZP tears apart any artist who dares to draw "pinup" style Bionicle art. But yet you guy say nothing when it comes to this kind of stuff. That's a big double standard.

 

You're basically saying "I care about equal rights of all people...as long as you're white".

 

A franchise that was produced by the Danes, with some names based off of the Maori language, built into a sci-fi world filled with powerful masks and disks, shapeshifting monsters, and a planet-sized robot containing it all; a franchise which was then sent out into the world for people of all cultures and nationalities to enjoy.

 

It's not just for you. 

 

 

Look at it like this, as the same concept does apply:

 

 

 

BIONICLE is based off of more than just Polynesian culture.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Tufi Piyufi
Racist jokes removed.