Jump to content

Which Toa Mangai wore the Kakama?


Boidoh

Which Toa Mangai wore the Kakama?  

87 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

Sorry for whichever person thinks that I am "rushing things" or whatever other thing anyone wants to throw at me, but this has to be done.

 

Greg has ruled out Naho in the past, so she is not included, and has recently ruled her out again.

 

I'm voting for Earth. Reason being: 

 

a) I like how the results are looking for the Toa Mangai of Ice poll.

b) I don't want a Pohatu clone.

Edited by Boidoh
  • Upvote 1

Add me on 3DS: 0516-7750-0068

Add me on Wii U: Boidoh

 

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 4: Never Trust a Snake

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of Elders

Like, Comment, And Subscribe for Nintendo Content - NinBoidoh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope this doesn't come off as being offesive, but is someone taking a side the same as mine considered bad now, or something. Anyone that agrees with me must burn in the same "bad place" with me?

 

Edit: Seems like the opposite of heaven is censored...

Edited by Boidoh

Add me on 3DS: 0516-7750-0068

Add me on Wii U: Boidoh

 

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 4: Never Trust a Snake

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of Elders

Like, Comment, And Subscribe for Nintendo Content - NinBoidoh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't feel you are rushing it... but I don't feel it is something that needs to be done.. I personally prefer my background characters to be left vague for the sake of creativity.. And that is what the majority of the toa mangai were... filler/background, and not pertinent to the story in an impactful way.

  • Upvote 2

u9et1dt.gif

Banner made by Onaku

BZPRPG CHARACTERS

Syvra-Tivanu

If you interact with one of my characters and I don't respond or acknowledge the interaction within a day, send me a PM. Odds are I missed or did not see the post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yesterday, I was toying around with the idea that the one with the Kakama could be the group's messenger. At first, I wanted it to be a Toa of Ice, but I think that a Toa of Earth could be a better choice. 

It would be really cool to see a Toa tunneling through Metru Nui at hyper-fast speeds to deliver something to another Toa or whoever. Kind of like Mulch Diggums, if anyone here's read Artemisus Fowl. 

I dunno, it might just be because of subliminal messaging (two people already supporting it), but whatever. I stand with Earth. 

  • Upvote 1

bZpOwEr

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only the top 3 make the cut.

Add me on 3DS: 0516-7750-0068

Add me on Wii U: Boidoh

 

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 4: Never Trust a Snake

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of Elders

Like, Comment, And Subscribe for Nintendo Content - NinBoidoh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Earth. I agree with Boidoh's reasoning.

 

I don't feel it is something that needs to be done.. I personally prefer my background characters to be left vague for the sake of creativity..

The thing is, this was the Toa Team of a major character who had a set. The characters themselves may be background, but the team isn't, compared to even some other known teams (Dume's team, most of Lesovikk's team, etc.). It's closer to borderline but I think the Toa Mangai are solidly in the realm of foreground as a team. :) Plus one other of the team also had a set as a mutated version, Nidhiki, and two others from the team are known, one of them being a popular villain (popular at least in Tuyet's first featuring, not so much after dimensional revival, heh).

 

And I think it's debatable whether more creativity is fueled with borderline ones like this by establishing a character or leaving a gap. Seems to me establishing the characters is more likely to inspire fanfics about them.

 

I can see why establishing your own characters to fill in the team can run into a problem here, but anybody who works within canon gaps always must understand that it actually makes no difference whether the canon is something other than yours that isn't known (the chances of it matching yours are astronomical), or known. Either way you're making up your own version... and either way you can do that! Fanfics need not conform to canon, and deviating from it is encouraged. The issue to me is what fuels more creativity and it's been shown so well that in general, more canon facts fuel it more, not less.

  • Upvote 2

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Earth. I agree with Boidoh's reasoning.

 

I don't feel it is something that needs to be done.. I personally prefer my background characters to be left vague for the sake of creativity..

The thing is, this was the Toa Team of a major character who had a set. The characters themselves may be background, but the team isn't, compared to even some other known teams (Dume's team, most of Lesovikk's team, etc.). It's closer to borderline but I think the Toa Mangai are solidly in the realm of foreground as a team. :) Plus one other of the team also had a set as a mutated version, Nidhiki, and two others from the team are known, one of them being a popular villain (popular at least in Tuyet's first featuring, not so much after dimensional revival, heh).

 

And I think it's debatable whether more creativity is fueled with borderline ones like this by establishing a character or leaving a gap. Seems to me establishing the characters is more likely to inspire fanfics about them.

 

I can see why establishing your own characters to fill in the team can run into a problem here, but anybody who works within canon gaps always must understand that it actually makes no difference whether the canon is something other than yours that isn't known (the chances of it matching yours are astronomical), or known. Either way you're making up your own version... and either way you can do that! Fanfics need not conform to canon, and deviating from it is encouraged. The issue to me is what fuels more creativity and it's been shown so well that in general, more canon facts fuel it more, not less.

Ok, I can kinda of understand where you are coming from on the whole having certain information can fuel creativity, but I still fail to see how the rest of the toa mangai are anywhere near foreground. I mean from my perspective of what you stated they are merely foreground characters by association, riding on the coattails of Lhikan, Nidhiki and Tuyet... and somewhat naho.

 

I'm not meaning to argue, just trying to understand why.

  • Upvote 2

u9et1dt.gif

Banner made by Onaku

BZPRPG CHARACTERS

Syvra-Tivanu

If you interact with one of my characters and I don't respond or acknowledge the interaction within a day, send me a PM. Odds are I missed or did not see the post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anyone know if this particular Kakama was 'owned,' for lack of a better word, by one of the Toa Mangai, or did that Toa switch their mask for this Kakama because it would've been more useful for him on his mission outside the city? I would like to have this clarified before I cast my vote.

  • Upvote 3

Everyone is one choice away from being the bad guy in another person's story.


 


pc0lX6T.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stone. Not to be contrarian, but more because i like the idea of a character in the shadow of a legend like Pohatu. (and yes, i know that by that logic, Lhikan would have been in the same boat).

  • Upvote 1

Hi.

If you remember me from when I was most active on BZP, from 2009-2011...

I know I was cringy. But please keep in mind I was literally 12.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anyone know if this particular Kakama was 'owned,' for lack of a better word, by one of the Toa Mangai, or did that Toa switch their mask for this Kakama because it would've been more useful for him on his mission outside the city? I would like to have this clarified before I cast my vote.

That might have to be solved with another poll. 

bZpOwEr

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Kodan should be put in this poll as well... I mean honestly, he was sent out with 2 of the Toa and I think it would be WAY more awesome if he was the one who's mask was left behind.

 

With that, I say you restart the poll and add Kodan in the option. After asking the Big Man of course. EDIT: Disregard and look at the 2 posts bellow this one.

 

If that's not possible, I think an Onu-Toa (what I picked currently) would be cool with a Kakama mainly due to the fast tunneler idea. I think that would be very useful for the Dark Hunter War.

 

And Sumiki, I actually agree, maybe that option should be there. Maybe that Kanohi belonged to an unknown Toa from the war maybe? If it was confirmed to be from one of the Mangai, then I agree it should be known, especially aince the poll I'm running about Kanohi canonizations seems to be in favor for canonizing, even if by a slight margin. Does anyone have an idea how we can present the poll to the broader spectrum of BZP? I see yall have colored text names help me out here. :P

Edited by Archon~

                      Archon                      


***


"For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day."


 


Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna!


***Toa Kyraan***

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Kodan should be put in this poll as well... I mean honestly, he was sent out with 2 of the Toa and I think it would be WAY more awesome if he was the one who's mask was left behind.

 

With that, I say you restart the poll and add Kodan in the option. After asking the Big Man of course.

 

No, don't. Determining that the mask was from Kodan would completely undercut the message of the scene. The Shadowed One's entire little speech is based on the assumption that the mask belonged to a Toa of old, and learning that it didn't would make a previously poignant scene look pointless and more than a little silly.

  • Upvote 2
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
-- Harlan Ellison

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

I think Kodan should be put in this poll as well... I mean honestly, he was sent out with 2 of the Toa and I think it would be WAY more awesome if he was the one who's mask was left behind.

 

With that, I say you restart the poll and add Kodan in the option. After asking the Big Man of course.

No, don't. Determining that the mask was from Kodan would completely undercut the message of the scene. The Shadowed One's entire little speech is based on the assumption that the mask belonged to a Toa of old, and learning that it didn't would make a previously poignant scene look pointless and more than a little silly.

Ahh I see. Well my apologies I wasn't 100% sure on exactly how the scene with that mask went. :)

 

Well Toa of Earth for me then!

  • Upvote 1

                      Archon                      


***


"For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day."


 


Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna!


***Toa Kyraan***

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For future reference, here's the monologue. Context: While he and Sentrakh are crossing through a sea gate, the Shadowed One spots a mask in the water and picks it up, says the following words, then punts it into the ocean.

 

 

Do you know what this is? A Kanohi mask - one of the most valuable possessions of a Toa. It no doubt belonged to some brave hero who ventured here from Metru Nui, looking to close this gate, thinking he was doing what was best for his city. He succeeded, but only after a great battle, and finally succumbed to his injuries.

 

Did he find a hero's grave in these waters, do you think? Or just a final resting place in the mud for a fool?

  • Upvote 1
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
-- Harlan Ellison

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, keeping that in mind it even makes more sense for the Onu-Toa to be the one with the mask, since he needed to seal up the gate somehow, and I assume Earth powers would prove usefull in this respect.

                      Archon                      


***


"For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day."


 


Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna!


***Toa Kyraan***

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still fail to see how the rest of the toa mangai are anywhere near foreground

They aren't; that's not what I said. In fact I said the opposite:

 

The characters themselves may be background, but the team isn't

 

Unless you meant "near" as in, still in the background, but closer to the foreground than other things. In that case, that would be by virtue of being on the same team as three important characters, and one other established character (important enough to get a landmark named after her).

 

Besides, all of them were the heroes of Metru Nui, the most important location in the MU, for a long time, and just before the start of the main year stories!

 

(But reading on, it does look like you misunderstood. Hope this helps, then. :) )

 

 

Does anyone know if this particular Kakama was 'owned,' for lack of a better word, by one of the Toa Mangai, or did that Toa switch their mask for this Kakama because it would've been more useful for him on his mission outside the city? I would like to have this clarified before I cast my vote.

Very few Toa besides the Toa Mata used Suva on a regular basis. There was one in Metru Nui, but it's unclear if the Toa Mangai had it set up with masks connected to it or not. I think that would need established first before what you suggested. But it would be nice to have both of those points settled, methinks.

 

And Sumiki, I actually agree, maybe that option should be there.

It definitely should be. (Greg need not listen to it if it's inconsistent with his vision to have these details settled, but he should still be informed of amounts of support for it so he can factor that into a balance of leaving some things unestablished that he might otherwise have. I've covered this elsewhere, but repetition can be good...)

 

Maybe that Kanohi belonged to an unknown Toa from the war maybe? If it was confirmed to be from one of the Mangai, then I agree it should be known

To add to Yalda's post, BS01 confirms it was a Mangai, and any death from earlier than that wouldn't make sense to explain it, as being near the sea gate it's a high traffic zone, so masks laying around should get picked up by somebody.

  • Upvote 1

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As Dorek stated elsewhere, it's more poetic to have the mask as a long-lost relic.

 

Not having an "I don't want this to be known" option is a slap in the face to half of the fandom.

I gotta go with the man. Didn't we say future polls were going to have a "don't want to know" option? I feel like nothing is actually happening despite all of the positive discussion we've been having =/.
  • Upvote 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

As Dorek stated elsewhere, it's more poetic to have the mask as a long-lost relic.

 

Not having an "I don't want this to be known" option is a slap in the face to half of the fandom.

I gotta go with the man. Didn't we say future polls were going to have a "don't want to know" option? I feel like nothing is actually happening despite all of the positive discussion we've been having =/.

 

 

Just my 2¢, but if these threads with polls are going to keep on showing up, maybe to have [however many polls for the options needed] + 1 more poll that contains a simple binary do I want this canonised or not: Yes / no.

 

That way if most people (of those that voted) wish it canonised it doesn't automatically discard the opinions of those that don't;

I'm sure there are some that don't have any opinion beyond do not want, but I & possibly (few/many?) others might not want a given thing to be canonised but we would prefer say the Toa Mangai of X to wear the Kakama rather than another Toa.

 

I mean, that way we could hit two birds with one stone; each time someone proposes to canonise X or Y, we have an opinion poll in the same thread without anyone being 'forced' into "most people on here might want to canonise this, so I'm going to put in my preference, even though ideally I don't want it canonised at all"

 

I feel it would be better if we could work out something before we go making more threads like this; but I don't think it hurts me throwing this out there. :)

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Does anyone know if this particular Kakama was 'owned,' for lack of a better word, by one of the Toa Mangai, or did that Toa switch their mask for this Kakama because it would've been more useful for him on his mission outside the city? I would like to have this clarified before I cast my vote.

Very few Toa besides the Toa Mata used Suva on a regular basis. There was one in Metru Nui, but it's unclear if the Toa Mangai had it set up with masks connected to it or not. I think that would need established first before what you suggested. But it would be nice to have both of those points settled, methinks.

 

 

I don't think the Toa being able to the Suva would help in finding out if the Kakama was his or if he was simply borrowing it from the Suva for that particular mission. If the Metru Nui Suva did allow the Toa to teleport Kanohi to them as needed, then Toa could've just wearing that Kakama, and not his regular Kanohi Mask, before being killed. If it didn't, the Toa could've just personally gone to the Suva and switched out his Kanohi before leaving for his mission. 

 

Either way, I don't think the suva would have any affect on whether the Kakama belong to that Toa or if he simply switched it out. 

 

On that note though, I will acknowledge that I'm probably overthinking about this, and that the Kakama probably did belong to that deceased Toa. But since the poll is asking which Toa Mangai this Mask belongs to, I can't help but ask this question about if it truly belonged to him because there is a possibility that it didn't IMO. (Curse the overthinking fanwriter in me. :P)

 

I really like Sumiki suggestion though, and have this Kakama be a 'long-lost relic' whose owner we do not know. That would be my vote if given the choice.

Edited by Toa Smoke Monster

Everyone is one choice away from being the bad guy in another person's story.


 


pc0lX6T.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still think the problem of wether or not this Kakama was the "normal" mask of a Toa should have been adressed before launching that poll. And that's a problem I brought up before the poll was launched.

 

In BA8, chapter 4, it is shown that great masks were forged for the Toa Metru even before they came into being, so that's highly probable the Toa Mangai had some spare masks.

 

On a side note, I don't think it was ever stated if Suva were often used - the question never seems to have come up in the old OGD. We didn't see them being often used, that's not the same thing: most of the existing Toa were never seen.

  • Upvote 2

Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, "No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back," it never WOULD have come back.

-- Greg Farshtey

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still think the problem of wether or not this Kakama was the "normal" mask of a Toa should have been adressed before launching that poll. And that's a problem I brought up before the poll was launched.

 

In BA8, chapter 4, it is shown that great masks were forged for the Toa Metru even before they came into being, so that's highly probable the Toa Mangai had some spare masks.

 

On a side note, I don't think it was ever stated if Suva were often used - the question never seems to have come up in the old OGD. We didn't see them being often used, that's not the same thing: most of the existing Toa were never seen.

I think that dealing with potential secondary masks is getting out of hand and isn't appropriate for minor characters. I think it should just be assumed that they had one primary mask, or at least that what we're voting on is the primary mask.

 

I'm all for canonizations but this is too much.

  • Upvote 2

                      Archon                      


***


"For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day."


 


Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna!


***Toa Kyraan***

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

As Dorek stated elsewhere, it's more poetic to have the mask as a long-lost relic.

 

Not having an "I don't want this to be known" option is a slap in the face to half of the fandom.

I gotta go with the man. Didn't we say future polls were going to have a "don't want to know" option? I feel like nothing is actually happening despite all of the positive discussion we've been having =/.

 

 

Isn't that what Archon's poll for? Even if I did put that, as I already said, it has an unfair advantage. 4 people vote for Toa of Ice, 4 for Stone, 8 for Earth, 10 for unknown. More people wanted it to be known, but their votes were spread across multiple options.

Add me on 3DS: 0516-7750-0068

Add me on Wii U: Boidoh

 

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 4: Never Trust a Snake

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of Elders

Like, Comment, And Subscribe for Nintendo Content - NinBoidoh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

As Dorek stated elsewhere, it's more poetic to have the mask as a long-lost relic.

 

Not having an "I don't want this to be known" option is a slap in the face to half of the fandom.

I gotta go with the man. Didn't we say future polls were going to have a "don't want to know" option? I feel like nothing is actually happening despite all of the positive discussion we've been having =/.

 

 

Isn't that what Archon's poll for? Even if I did put that, as I already said, it has an unfair advantage. 4 people vote for Toa of Ice, 4 for Stone, 8 for Earth, 10 for unknown. More people wanted it to be known, but their votes were spread across multiple options.

 

 

Everyone can put in there preferance regardless; just add together the different Toa.

Simple addition of three numbers, then a check is that higher or lower than this other number.

That's not hard, & frankly I'm not sure how you thought Dorek meant anything else, & even if he did, why anyone would not point out his error once it came to it...

Or, there could just be a single thread with a poll for the answers of which Toa, & another poll (in the same thread!) for do you want the answer canonised yes/no.

  • Upvote 1

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

As Dorek stated elsewhere, it's more poetic to have the mask as a long-lost relic.

 

Not having an "I don't want this to be known" option is a slap in the face to half of the fandom.

I gotta go with the man. Didn't we say future polls were going to have a "don't want to know" option? I feel like nothing is actually happening despite all of the positive discussion we've been having =/.

 

 

Just my 2¢, but if these threads with polls are going to keep on showing up, maybe to have [however many polls for the options needed] + 1 more poll that contains a simple binary do I want this canonised or not: Yes / no.

 

That way if most people (of those that voted) wish it canonised it doesn't automatically discard the opinions of those that don't;

I'm sure there are some that don't have any opinion beyond do not want, but I & possibly (few/many?) others might not want a given thing to be canonised but we would prefer say the Toa Mangai of X to wear the Kakama rather than another Toa.

 

I mean, that way we could hit two birds with one stone; each time someone proposes to canonise X or Y, we have an opinion poll in the same thread without anyone being 'forced' into "most people on here might want to canonise this, so I'm going to put in my preference, even though ideally I don't want it canonised at all"

 

I feel it would be better if we could work out something before we go making more threads like this; but I don't think it hurts me throwing this out there. :)

 

I Kind of have to agree with Lblis here. There should be an option to state whether or not we do want this information revealed. And as stated in their next post it wouldn't be hard at all to do, just require a little more work. But at least then it wouldn't just be catering to the part of the community that does want certain information canonized.

 

 

I still fail to see how the rest of the toa mangai are anywhere near foreground

They aren't; that's not what I said. In fact I said the opposite:

 

The characters themselves may be background, but the team isn't

 

Unless you meant "near" as in, still in the background, but closer to the foreground than other things. In that case, that would be by virtue of being on the same team as three important characters, and one other established character (important enough to get a landmark named after her).

 

Besides, all of them were the heroes of Metru Nui, the most important location in the MU, for a long time, and just before the start of the main year stories!

 

(But reading on, it does look like you misunderstood. Hope this helps, then. :) )

 

I don't think I so much misunderstood as incorrectly worded my thoughts. 

 

Let me provide an example. Toa Jovan, who was given an official 'design' despite it only being a combiner. I would consider him, and his team to be very important, more so than the toa mangai, or even inika/Mahri. Reason for this is because without their efforts the MU would have been no more, meaning the events of the toa mangai or any of the canon events past the matoran civil war would have never occurred. They did the exact same thing the mahri did, just with less obstacles to overcome.

 

Yet somehow the unnamed Toa Mangai are so much more important... And in my opinion that is because none of the jovan's team were actual sets, or were the main focus of any of the story arcs, unlike the Toa Mangai. Though one thing Jovan's unknown team members have over Lhikan's unknown team members is that some of Jovan's team could still be alive, and for all we know could have been a part of the story in future serials. Heck I could think of several ways they could have been introduced.. Maybe one of them goes crazy because of the sacrifice of their team only for it to be in vain years later. I would be pretty upset about that. Also of note, the member of jovan's team who sacrificed themselves to use the ignika is even mentioned in story by the Ignika, when it was comparing Matoro to the one who used the ignika before and about how the previous user had fear in them, where matoro didn't. 

 

So why is it so important to know the elements and masks of a group of individuals who are officially dead and have no chance at revival due to how they died? Because they were on the same team as three important characters, hence my earlier comment of they are merely riding on the coattails of important characters, and are not actually important themselves.

Edited by Voxumo: Master of Fikou
  • Upvote 1

u9et1dt.gif

Banner made by Onaku

BZPRPG CHARACTERS

Syvra-Tivanu

If you interact with one of my characters and I don't respond or acknowledge the interaction within a day, send me a PM. Odds are I missed or did not see the post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never really minded it being Naho's, but since that's not in the books...

 

The poetic nature of it remaining unknown is really too appealing to want to vote right now.

 

~|ET|~

  • Upvote 3

E-T... Phone home.

 

"He walks among us, but he is not one of us."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never really minded it being Naho's, but since that's not in the books...

 

The poetic nature of it remaining unknown is really too appealing to want to vote right now.

 

~|ET|~

The only problem I see with this is that is seems that we'll find out all the Kanohi Mangai soon, so we just want to make sure not to leave this intiguing mask behind. :/

                      Archon                      


***


"For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day."


 


Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna!


***Toa Kyraan***

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

As Dorek stated elsewhere, it's more poetic to have the mask as a long-lost relic.

Not having an "I don't want this to be known" option is a slap in the face to half of the fandom.

I gotta go with the man. Didn't we say future polls were going to have a "don't want to know" option? I feel like nothing is actually happening despite all of the positive discussion we've been having =/.

 

Isn't that what Archon's poll for? Even if I did put that, as I already said, it has an unfair advantage. 4 people vote for Toa of Ice, 4 for Stone, 8 for Earth, 10 for unknown. More people wanted it to be known, but their votes were spread across multiple options.

 

Which is actually a fantastic reason to split up the polls, or at least preface it with "do you actually want to know this", because multiple question polls are totally a thing. There's plenty of ways to do it so it avoids the statistical issue you mentioned.

 

We can't rely on just one poll when the issue itself is being spread across multiple ones; that's not a reliable way to measure.

 

 

I never really minded it being Naho's, but since that's not in the books...

 

The poetic nature of it remaining unknown is really too appealing to want to vote right now.

 

~|ET|~

The only problem I see with this is that is seems that we'll find out all the Kanohi Mangai soon, so we just want to make sure not to leave this intiguing mask behind. :/

 

Well, that's another issue with the fact that these polls just keep popping up; we need to slow down and talk about the issue before making a decision. Right now, I don't think half of these polls are really indicative of a good measure of community support.
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it didn't, the Toa could've just personally gone to the Suva and switched out his Kanohi before leaving for his mission.

True, but that's a lot less likely in this case, as they weren't expecting trouble. They were just supposed to close the gates. Possible, though.

 

I think that dealing with potential secondary masks is getting out of hand and isn't appropriate for minor characters.

This. (Still couldn't hurt to check. But it's unlikely anyways.)

 

Isn't that what Archon's poll for? Even if I did put that, as I already said, it has an unfair advantage. 4 people vote for Toa of Ice, 4 for Stone, 8 for Earth, 10 for unknown. More people wanted it to be known, but their votes were spread across multiple options.

I agree with this answer:

 

Everyone can put in there preferance regardless; just add together the different Toa.

Simple addition of three numbers, then a check is that higher or lower than this other number.

That's not hard

But it may be worth briefly mentioning this procedure in the rule (assuming that goes through) just to be clear for future reference.

 

Toa Jovan, who was given an official 'design' despite it only being a combiner. I would consider him, and his team to be very important, more so than the toa mangai

But he was, as you say, only a combiner set, and didn't even get any direct story featuring. Maybe you mean important by just in-universe standards, but I think the dividing line needs to be based on featuring. (The questions then are how far and in what ways.) I do think their importance in-universe is enough to warrant not just blithely dismissing them, but I'd say they're still pretty clearly beyond the line when you think about it. (They have had a little bit of elaboration, though, beyond Jovan. But not one of them had anything like Lhikan's featuring, and the Mangai had two other features.)

 

Yet somehow the unnamed Toa Mangai are so much more important... And in my opinion that is because none of the jovan's team were actual sets, or were the main focus of any of the story arcs, unlike the Toa Mangai.

But if you understand this, why, then, the "somehow" here?

 

Also of note, the member of jovan's team who sacrificed themselves to use the ignika is even mentioned in story by the Ignika, when it was comparing Matoro to the one who used the ignika before and about how the previous user had fear in them, where matoro didn't.

I agree. (Previous point about their still being alive is good too.) But does this make enough to have the team established? Maybe, maybe not. I would say not because we're already accustomed to not having any real idea of what any of them were actually like, as we do with Lhikan, Nidhiki, and Tuyet. That's a major difference.) At the very least, I'd say they're a lower priority.

 

So why is it so important to know the elements and masks of a group of individuals who are officially dead and have no chance at revival due to how they died?

Keep in mind that still being alive at this point is essentially the same as the (apparent) chances of featuring in future story is nill in both instances, and had the story not been decided not to continue, stories could be told about them either way. (Plus, fan stories, imagination, etc. apply in these ways and maybe even more.) Admittedly, it would probably be more likely for present stories, so Jovan's team (those few that are still Toa), though.

 

Although, Turaga Lhikan was revived, so if he ever escapes, he might have wanted to tell some flashbacks. :shrugs:

 

 

Because they were on the same team as three important characters, hence my earlier comment of they are merely riding on the coattails of important characters, and are not actually important themselves.

Well, background/foreground is something that we can speak of coherently as a "dichotomy", understanding that more foreground and more background is possible too. But "not important" versus "important" sounds more like a false dichotomy type of wording. They're not as important (obviously...). But that can be semantics too. If we use that wording, then we can again point to countless other things in the canon that were established and also "not important", so that alone can't ban it from being decided. A quick skim-through of the encyclopedia for example would demonstrate that.

  • Upvote 2

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Toa Jovan, who was given an official 'design' despite it only being a combiner. I would consider him, and his team to be very important, more so than the toa mangai

But he was, as you say, only a combiner set, and didn't even get any direct story featuring. Maybe you mean important by just in-universe standards, but I think the dividing line needs to be based on featuring. (The questions then are how far and in what ways.) I do think their importance in-universe is enough to warrant not just blithely dismissing them, but I'd say they're still pretty clearly beyond the line when you think about it. (They have had a little bit of elaboration, though, beyond Jovan. But not one of them had anything like Lhikan's featuring, and the Mangai had two other features.)

 

 

Ok, when speaking from a point of view on how 'featured' they were in the story, I can accept why many would consider them of high priority. I can not deny that of the four named toa mangai, three of them definitely had more pronounced roles in the story.

 

 

Yet somehow the unnamed Toa Mangai are so much more important... And in my opinion that is because none of the jovan's team were actual sets, or were the main focus of any of the story arcs, unlike the Toa Mangai.

But if you understand this, why, then, the "somehow" here?

 

The somehow stems from my own lack of understanding from a... pro stance. Even though you explain to me why many feel this information is important to know, does not mean I truly understand. Afterall you can explain to somehow why the sky is blue, and while they may accept it it does not mean they truly understand it. The somehow also stems from my stance on this, where I would rather have this information kept undefined. Then again I also believe that if greg farshtey/story team did not have this information defined or thought up before, that it should not be left to the fanbase to decide.

Edited by Voxumo: Master of Fikou

u9et1dt.gif

Banner made by Onaku

BZPRPG CHARACTERS

Syvra-Tivanu

If you interact with one of my characters and I don't respond or acknowledge the interaction within a day, send me a PM. Odds are I missed or did not see the post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This may be divisive, but I'm just going to say it... I/we (as in, BS01) am/are not going to accept whatever result this poll ends up with, until it gets a do-over. I understand it might be too late for some of the other things, but this is fresh (a day old! That's only stale in bakery terms!). There should have been a "don't want to know" option added at some point, as there should IN ALL FUTURE POLLS regarding canonization.

 

I understand that it's possible you thought the poll regarding the Toa Mangai's Kanohi was indicative of support for the entire affair, but ultimately it was more for discussion, and not representing all sides of the debate is not a good indication of trying to understand how the community, writ large, feels.

 

All polls should be structured as two questions; the first one being "do you want to know X" with the binary yes/no, and then "what do you want X to be" with the requisite options, then an additional "I don't want to know what X is", because people who vote that will answer in the same as above (with a small margin of error). This way, all sides of the debate are covered. Certain polls will be slightly more complicated (there will at some point have to be a "I want to know X, but do not want it to be any of the above" choice, where applicable). However, this poll is extremely simple in its few choices, and should absolutely be redone to encompass the oppositional side, because it's incredibly easy to do, and will satisfy the most people.

  • Upvote 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I still think the problem of wether or not this Kakama was the "normal" mask of a Toa should have been adressed before launching that poll. And that's a problem I brought up before the poll was launched.

 

In BA8, chapter 4, it is shown that great masks were forged for the Toa Metru even before they came into being, so that's highly probable the Toa Mangai had some spare masks.

 

On a side note, I don't think it was ever stated if Suva were often used - the question never seems to have come up in the old OGD. We didn't see them being often used, that's not the same thing: most of the existing Toa were never seen.

I think that dealing with potential secondary masks is getting out of hand and isn't appropriate for minor characters. I think it should just be assumed that they had one primary mask, or at least that what we're voting on is the primary mask.

 

I'm all for canonizations but this is too much.

 

So, basically, some options needs to be eliminated because they don't please to some. Err... That's just as bad as hiding willingly some facts to Greg to canonize something in my book.

 

I'm not saying it should be a secondary mask, just that the option should be here unless Greg ruled it out. My guess would be that he will rule it out, but that's not a given, and ruling it out of the options is not our choice. Kinda like all Elemental Masks except the Garai are not included in the options for the Mangai of Ice.

Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, "No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back," it never WOULD have come back.

-- Greg Farshtey

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I voted the Toa of Earth.

 

Can you do a poll for Naho's Kanohi next?

Tahu; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Lewa; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Onua; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Kopaka; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Pohatu; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). Gali; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Kaukau (x). 

Vakama; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Matau; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Whenua; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Nuju; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Onewa; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). Nokama; Huna (x) Ruru (x) Komau (x) Mahiki (x) Matatu (x) Rau (x). 
Matoran; Hau (x) Pakari (x) Kakama (x) Miru (x) Akaku (x) Huna (x) 
Rahi; Infected Hau (x) Huna (x) Kakama (x) Komau (x) Pakari (x) Ruru ()

Promotional Kanohi - Vahi (x) Chrome Hau (x) Ruru (x) TNGM (x) Copper Huna (x) Copper Komau ()

 

An (x) means I have, a () means I dont.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This may be divisive, but I'm just going to say it... I/we (as in, BS01) am/are not going to accept whatever result this poll ends up with, until it gets a do-over. I understand it might be too late for some of the other things, but this is fresh (a day old! That's only stale in bakery terms!). There should have been a "don't want to know" option added at some point, as there should IN ALL FUTURE POLLS regarding canonization.

 

I understand that it's possible you thought the poll regarding the Toa Mangai's Kanohi was indicative of support for the entire affair, but ultimately it was more for discussion, and not representing all sides of the debate is not a good indication of trying to understand how the community, writ large, feels.

 

All polls should be structured as two questions; the first one being "do you want to know X" with the binary yes/no, and then "what do you want X to be" with the requisite options, then an additional "I don't want to know what X is", because people who vote that will answer in the same as above (with a small margin of error). This way, all sides of the debate are covered. Certain polls will be slightly more complicated (there will at some point have to be a "I want to know X, but do not want it to be any of the above" choice, where applicable). However, this poll is extremely simple in its few choices, and should absolutely be redone to encompass the oppositional side, because it's incredibly easy to do, and will satisfy the most people.

 

Abusing your General Manager powers over at BS01 to get what you want, eh. So is BS01 the final end-all authority over BIONICLE now? They can refuse whatever information because they don't like it. Fine. You win. You can get your new poll with your options. Celebrate. Rejoice. Now you can stop complaining on every single one of these topics. 

 

Poll Closed....

And new Poll Opened...

 

 

I voted the Toa of Earth.

 

Can you do a poll for Naho's Kanohi next?

 

 

At this point, I'm really discouraged from making any new polls. If people don't appreciate them what's the point?

Edited by Boidoh
  • Upvote 1

Add me on 3DS: 0516-7750-0068

Add me on Wii U: Boidoh

 

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 4: Never Trust a Snake

"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of Elders

Like, Comment, And Subscribe for Nintendo Content - NinBoidoh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

that definitely is abuse of power, dorek - not cool. while i do agree that we need a "don't want to know" option on all these polls, there's more than one way to do that. for example, and for simplicity's sake, we should have just had one poll question that included all the options, and one of those options would have been "don't want to know." if people want to know, they'd vote for one of the other options, and we'd add those together to find out which group wins, then if more people want to know, the knowing option with the highest votes is the winner.

 

anyway, when did greg say that naho didn't wear the kakama? i thought he said that she wore it b/c that's why she was the one to sneak through enemy lines during the war and get reinforcements? of the options given, i voted for earth, but i think that naho should be the one to wear it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The end goal of the polls was for the entire community to have a say in the result. Due to no act of malice on anyone's part, that did not happen. Despite this, the poll continued and, since this invalidated the initial goal of the poll, Dorek made the right move.

 

We need to regroup and calm down...Despite me agreeing with Dorek's action, can I just say from a human perspective that everyone's been hard on Boidoh...Let's stop throwing blame and hate around and come up with a plan.

  • Upvote 1

Hi.

If you remember me from when I was most active on BZP, from 2009-2011...

I know I was cringy. But please keep in mind I was literally 12.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...