Returning Elements

[Doctor Makuta]

So now that BIONICLE 2015 is returning which elements would you like to see return as well? Which elements would you add in?

 

Personally I'd choose Light, Darkness, Lightning, Metal and Air return as their own tribe, with protectors and masters as well (Who says Darkness has to be evil? I'd be fine with Gravity, Magnetism, Plasma, Psionics and Sound returning as well, though as a titan with that element rather than a tribe. The elements of Poison and Radiation could also be cool if they were introduced. What about you guys?

[Iblis]

Well, in G1 there were;

1. Air
2. Earth
3. Fire
4. Gravity
5. Ice
6. Iron
7. Jungle/The Green
8. Light
9. Lightning
10. Magnetism
11. Plasma
12. Psionics
13. Rock/Stone
14. Sand
15. Shadow
16. Sonics
17. Water

It looks like Air & Jungle have merged, as have Stone & Sand, so that only leaves us with nine, of which I don't want to see Sonics in a capacity other than a freakishly loud scream, & I'm neutral to Plasma & Gravity although I'd rather them to be more akin to non-Elemental (villain) powers, those two depend a lot on how powerful they are & how they are limited etc.

 

I think Psionics is a bit to broad: give me a thing who can talk telepathically; general telekinesis... I'm not opposed to it but I don't look forward to it; psychic attack (like not a energy ball, but they are assaulting your mind) is pretty cool. Generally it depends a lot on how it's handled, but I think I'd rather not see it stated to be an Element.

 

I don't really want to see Magnetism show up by itself, but I'm happy for it just to be 'mixed in' with Iron (or Metal).

 

So what I think I can say I would like to see is; Light, Lightning, Metal, & Shadows, (although I wouldn't mind seeing Plasma & Lightning merged).

 

_{^{I'm open to new Elements as well though ;]}}

[Doctor Makuta]

 

Well, in G1 there were;

1. Air
2. Earth
3. Fire
4. Gravity
5. Ice
6. Iron
7. Jungle/The Green
8. Light
9. Lightning
10. Magnetism
11. Plasma
12. Psionics
13. Rock/Stone
14. Sand
15. Shadow
16. Sonics
17. Water

It looks like Air & Jungle have merged, as have Stone & Sand, so that only leaves us with nine, of which I don't want to see Sonics in a capacity other than a freakishly loud scream, & I'm neutral to Plasma & Gravity although I'd rather them to be more akin to non-Elemental (villain) powers, those two depend a lot on how powerful they are & how they are limited etc.

 

I think Psionics is a bit to broad: give me a thing who can talk telepathically; general telekinesis... I'm not opposed to it but I don't look forward to it; psychic attack (like not a energy ball, but they are assaulting your mind) is pretty cool. Generally it depends a lot on how it's handled, but I think I'd rather not see it stated to be an Element.

 

I don't really want to see Magnetism show up by itself, but I'm happy for it just to be 'mixed in' with Iron (or Metal).

 

So what I think I can say I would like to see is; Light, Lightning, Metal, & Shadows, (although I wouldn't mind seeing Plasma & Lightning merged).

 

_{^{I'm open to new Elements as well though ;]}}

 

 

Are Plasma and Lightning essensially the same thing?

[Iblis]

Are Plasma and Lightning essentially the same thing?

 

Lightning would just refer to the stream of electrons that occur (in a storm), but not to the (ionised) gas around them; where as Plasma includes both the free electrons and the free nuclei.

Although, I suspect this isn't clarified as often as it could be because a situation were they are distinguished doesn't arise very often. ^{_{It was actually because this confusion in the other thread that I suggested mixing the two.}}

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

Lightning, Metal, Air, Sand and Sound are the only elements I would like to see come back in the capacity of tribes and masters. Jungle/Air is very vague and I'm not really enjoying that idea. Stone/Sand makes more sense, but I think it's still possible to see in the future.

 

Light and Darkness will surely come back - whether as tribes or just in the form one one villain/hero I don't mind.

[Click]

I don't see where that confusion is coming from for lightning and plasma. Sure, at their basic, basic level, they are similar, but the applications are different. I suppose it's similar to Stone and Earth, Water and Ice. Water is more able to travel fast in streams or floods, but Ice is better at trapping or more physical attacks. Lightning can be used to charge or short-circuit electronic devices, and, in most cases, will only electrify targets. Sure, it could be painful, but getting hit with a blast of elemental plasma would be worse. Plasma is superheated sci-fi stuff (I know it exists, but in fiction, it generally behaves differently than it would in real life), able to melt or incinerate.

 

Picture electricity vs. plasma on a metal door. The Toa of Lightning would be pretty useless unless they can blast the door with an extremely powerful bolt or short circuit the workings. A Toa of Plasma could melt right through it. Lightning hitting a tree can shatter it, and burn it, but Plasma would melt right through, leaving nothing left.

 

Back on topic, I agree with what you're saying. Many of the other elements were too vaguely defined or seemed overlapping. Sure, Gravity and Magnetism are two very different forces, but in essence, they can be used to move things around. I can't picture many scenarios where a Toa of Gravity would be significantly more useful than a Toa of Magnetism, unless there is absolutely no magnetic metal anywhere. Psionics is cool, but it isn't as physical as the rest, and not as fundamental as say, fire. Sonics could work, but it fits better in G1's more sci-fi-like story than G2's hopefully tribal.

 

Personally, I'm still hoping for crystal.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Click

[fishers64]

It really depends on if we have a change in setting. I'd say that Gravity, Plasma, Lightning, and Light/Shadow would fit the Okoto setting.

 

Gravity because we already have Masters crashing from the sky, Lightning because it feels like a natural element, and Plasma because I like Plasma. It feels like a more powerful one-off power for Tahu, even though it probably isn't. Light/Shadow because of the obvious light/dark morality allusion.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

I want a purple lightning Toa. Nuff said 

 

-NotS

[Iblis]

Lightning in glorious technicolour sounds awesome

 

Light/Shadow because of the obvious light/dark morality allusion.

 

Am I the only one that wants to see that done connection done away with?

Like I'm all for major good (Light) vs major evil (Shadow), but just not so it's an in universe you become evil you become shadow etc.

I don't really want to see a DarkIsNotEvil or LightIsNotGood aesop, but the "moral light" thing seemed really meh to me.

[fishers64]

I wouldn't object if they didn't embrace that or the elements, but I'll be upfront: I liked the whole concept of moral light and shadow. It was an interesting idea and a way to visualize morality. 

 

I mean, all I have to do is point to my av/sig to reveal my very obvious bias.  

[Toa Smoke Monster]

The elements I would like to see return are lightning, Gravity, Iron, and Psionics. They are all really cool powers IMO and I would love for them to return in someway into the story. 

[Mjolnitor]

The thing is that psionics are too broad for an element.

You can shove mind trickery in it, you can shove telekinesis in it, you can shove pyrokinesis, cryokinesis, something-else-kinesis...

Too broad for single elemental power. If you want psi so badly, why as an element?

 

Also, Fishers. Your logical reasoning here is so weak that it's nearly nonexistent, y'know?.. You liking something doesn't mean that this thing would fit the setting.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Mjolnitor

[Iblis]

I pretty much agree with;

 

The thing is that psionics are too broad for an element.

You can shove mind trickery in it, you can shove telekinesis in it, you can shove pyrokinesis, cryokinesis, something-else-kinesis...

Too broad for single elemental power. If you want psi so badly, why as an element?

 

Like, I can see a character with telekineses (which kinda does blur into other things) telepathy, & illusions; but not as just one big Element; between the Bahrag & Makuta they all appeared, & I think these powers worked fine with them there (+ a few others, personally I feel the Makuta got given too many other powers); but that way it opens up that some other being might just have one of these powers.

'Cause having minor Psionic abilities is still ridiculously broad, & why say that if you then need to specify what they are.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Iblis

[Toa Smoke Monster]

The thing is that psionics are too broad for an element.

You can shove mind trickery in it, you can shove telekinesis in it, you can shove pyrokinesis, cryokinesis, something-else-kinesis...

Too broad for single elemental power. If you want psi so badly, why as an element?

I thought it was one of the cooler Toa elements introduced into the story. And while Orde and Varian were Toa of Psionics, they had little to no impact in the story at all. (Aside from the controversy of Orde, but that's not what this topic is about.) 

 

I just think it would be cool to see a Toa of Psionics in the Gen 2 story. Maybe some of the powers that this Toa would have could be changed from the Gen 1 Toa of Psionics. Maybe their powers could be toned down a bit, to name one example. Or maybe there could be a couple mental powers that they don't have, like telekinesis. Either way, I think its a cool power and I wouldn't mind seeing a Gen 2 Toa have it as their elemental power.

[Iblis]

while Orde and Varian were Toa of Psionics, they had little to no impact in the story at all.

 

See that too me was a very minor issue, if Psionics is just as strong as Fire/Water/Ice/Earth/Stone/Air (et cetera, sort of...), but it's so much more diverse in what it can do; I think that more should have been accomplished by Toa of Psionics. They should have been OP by virtue of broadness without other limiting factors.

 

I've seen similar lines about a Toa of Plasma, but arguably they're more_restrictive/restricted_in_a_different_way than a Toa of Fire, but most of these issues can otherwise be resolved by those Toa being much less common, & otherwise removed by Teridax etc.

 

It wasn't a big issue, but I sort of wondered why the Great Beings bothered creating any other types of Toa after they had Toa of Psionics 'ironed out' (I'm not going to go into that controversy), because I can't really see much that they couldn't do just as economically well as any other being.

 

Maybe the Ce-Matoran couldn't handle too much heat? Well I still think it would have made more sense just to have Av-Matoran, Ce-Matoran, Fe-Matoran, & Su-Matoran; I can't really see much need outside of those. Maybe they might still need Ga-Matoran &/or Ta-Matoran, for better control in liquid-heavy environments or in case of fires... IDK All I can really conclude is that they had almost 3x the varieties they needed just out of diversities-sake ^{(meta-irony? eh DW here)}, or because economically it was easier to have more specialised and less general (Ce-Matoran).

[Out of universe, the reasons are pretty clear, but that's not what I'm concerned with in this topic]

 

I'm open that it could work (for me) as an Element in G2, but I don't think it's likely; as such I kind of hope it doesn't show up, but if it does I won't complain (just because it's there).

[fishers64]

Also, Fishers. Your logical reasoning here is so weak that it's nearly nonexistent, y'know?.. You liking something doesn't mean that this thing would fit the setting.

True. I guess I thought briefly that the light/dark thing was alluded to briefly in the Legend video, but I'm probably thinking of Bionicle 2001-2010. This one seems more focused on elemental powers, having too many of those, etc. 

 

Ekimu has a gold mask like Takanuva and the Mask of Ultimate Power is black and kind of bat-like, but I probably shouldn't read too much into that.

 

And Iblis, I think it was a legit criticism. Do keep in mind I was responding to (your) Iblis' comment about elemental light rather than producing support for my thinking in a logical manner, and he does have the right to point that out. 

[Iblis]

Ekimu has a gold mask like Takanuva and the Mask of Ultimate Power is black and kind of bat-like, but I probably shouldn't read too much into that.

Actually speaking of the Mask of Ultimate Power, it kind of resembles the Avohkii, so how's that for looking closely

^{(Not trying to pick on anyone, Scarilian might be right)}

 

And Iblis, I think it was a legit criticism. Do keep in mind I was responding to (your) Iblis' comment about elemental light rather than producing support for my thinking in a logical manner, and he does have the right to point that out. 

It was the wording of it, not that I thought there was anything wrong with asking for reasoning, anyhow it's since been edited.

[Doctor Makuta]

I pretty much agree with;

 

The thing is that psionics are too broad for an element.

You can shove mind trickery in it, you can shove telekinesis in it, you can shove pyrokinesis, cryokinesis, something-else-kinesis...

Too broad for single elemental power. If you want psi so badly, why as an element?

 

Like, I can see a character with telekineses (which kinda does blur into other things) telepathy, & illusions; but not as just one big Element; between the Bahrag & Makuta they all appeared, & I think these powers worked fine with them there (+ a few others, personally I feel the Makuta got given too many other powers); but that way it opens up that some other being might just have one of these powers.

'Cause having minor Psionic abilities is still ridiculously broad, & why say that if you then need to specify what they are.

 

Oh the Makuta had so many abilities...

 

Perhaps then Psionics could just show up as it originally did with characters having psychic abilities like Makuta with telepathy and illusion, and a mask that had telekinisis? A really powerful psychic titan would be okay as well

[Prime Axiom]

 Unless we were going to get sets of them...none. Just the classic six + light (and of course, that would mean a Toa of Light set). And of course, shadow. Keep it simple. Like my suggestions on the sub elements thread, I wouldn't mind if existing powers were worked into the classic six elements. Otherwise, I don't want a bunch of masters running around on Okoto that we're never going to get sets of. 

[UnderscoreChronix]

I would like:

*Fire

*Water

*Jungle/Air

*Earth

*Stone

*Ice

*Gravity

*Lightning

*Iron/Metal

*Sonics

*Darkness/Shadow

*Light

[Toa Kohron]

Keeping in mind the new aesthetic, lore, and general properties of G2 and Okoto, I think only Lightning (Electricity) and maybe Sonics really stand out enough and differentiate themselves from the other elements to actually earn the title of another element.

 

That being said, Master of Lightning? Blue + purple color scheme? Yes, please.

 

--Ron

[MrSciFiGuy]

I am betting Shadow will definitely be an element in the battles to come

[Cressona]

I personally hope we're able to keep it simple on Okoto and stick with the classic six elements, alongside maybe Light and Shadow because, obviously, Good vs Evil and all that.

 

Although the Bohrok-Kal having new powers was super awesome... I wouldn't mind at all if we brought back lightning, magnetism, etc. but just had them be powers and not elements-- there's something very mythological about having a limited number of elements controlled by a limited number of toa, and once you start expanding that, there are of course some cool possibilities but you lose that mythology and the uniqueness of being an element-user.

[Toa Doublebee]

on the thought of a new Toa team with elements that are not the traditional 6 sounds yummy. soooo yummy

 As for the elements, I'd like to see Lightning, and psionics. Myabe a bit of plasma.

[bohrokman]

light, air, gravity annoys me that onua has to a of gravity colors

[Lyichir]

light, air, gravity annoys me that onua has to a of gravity colors

That's really just the fault of Greg assigning terribly specific color schemes to Toa of elements we hadn't seen in sets. We had already had Onu-Matoran who were purple and black prior to that decision, but apparently Greg didn't care that the colors he chose were taken.

 

Really, I'd prefer we didn't see any other elements besides the six main ones, and potentially Light and Shadow. Many of the other elements were non-substantive (Gravity and Magnetism are fundamental forces, not something that can even be visualized), uncommon in nature (A Toa of Plasma would generally have to create their own element if they ever hoped to interact with it), overpowered (Plasma again), or ill defined (Psionics? Gimme a break). The ones that remain (Lightning/Electricity, Iron, and MAYBE Sonics/Sound) are not enough for even a full team of characters, so apart from one-off characters (like Krakua, when he was first revealed), I don't see them as all that viable.

[dotcom]

Well, just the usual elements are necessary, like...speed, and poison, and amber...smoke...totally...?

[Banana Gunz]

Lightning, Metal, Poison, Crystal, Sonics and something else... I'm not totally sure. I completely agree with Lyichir's view of some of the other elements like gravity and plasma. I've never been a fan of them, and more natural elements are what I'd like to see. Light and Shadow should also be there as honorary elements, both being legendary.

[Votuko]

Well, just the usual elements are necessary, like...speed, and poison, and amber...smoke...totally...?

I was considering the Element of Implausibility.

 

Its power being that whenever a user introduces themselves as "Master of Implausibility" to someone, that person is compelled to respond with "That doesn't sound like an element..."

[Saint-14]

I can see Light and Shadow coming back, as those are important elements in almost every story. I'd like Fe-Matoran (well, Iron Protectors) to be canonized in set form, though, mainly because the Nynrah Ghosts were a cool concept, but the closest thing to a set with them were the blasters in the Mistika wave

 

Plus, since the colours are metallic grey and burnt orange there wouldn't be a need to make new colour injections (although it might be hard to distinguish them from the Stone tribe)

 

As for elements I don't see returning, the most obvious one would be air, since Lewa already seems to have some control over it, and Jungle will most likely be the only green we get