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Real-life physics in Bionicle


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I'm pretty sure gravity would act on an object that was intangible/out-of-phase just like it would normally. Gravity is explained with the curvature of space; there's no reason why an intangible object wouldn't fall into gravity wells just like any other object. So if you went intangible while on a planet, you would fall through the planet until you reached the centre (actually your momentum would cause you to oscillate back and forth a bunch of times until you reached a standstill). This is because an object tends to move towards a state of lowest energy. It's the same reason why sufficiently massive objects become spherical in space.

 

Trying to avoid passing through the ground until reaching the lowest possible energy state, on the other hand, would be problematic. That's where Bones's selective intangibility explanation might come in. Another possibility is that the intangibility only works in one direction, specifically, perpendicular to the local gravity field. That way, if a Toa were intangible, they would be safe from horizontally-moving projectiles and attacks, but not from something falling on them. They also wouldn't fall through the ground.

 

Also, about the power requirements, in an episode of Stargate they achieve a similar effect by causing "a series of harmonic pulses which opens up the cloaked lab by magnetically resonating a hidden door from solid to a state which can be walked through" (from the Stargate Wiki). That would only take as much energy as the harmonic pulses require. I don't know if it's realistic, though, but Stargate is usually pretty good with keeping the science plausible.

 

-Letagi

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Explain how Metru-Nui was severally damaged by the GC but not by everything else that the MN robot did for 10,000 years.

I'm no physicist, but try falling out of a tree and hitting the ground. (No, don't try it!) You'll bounce a bit before settling in severe pain - the vibrations and the impact cause the damage. If you were a tiny being inside your body, you would vibrate and bash around and get damaged. 

 

Contrast that with the smoothness of a normal airplane landing. Nobody would be bothered or damaged by that. That's Mata Nui smoothly landing on planets, dodging space junk, etc for 100,000 years. This time, the plane crashed. If a plane lands gently, there is no damage - if the plane crashes, you get a huge fireball and a lot of damage to the inside of the plane. 

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Lemme reply out of order here:

I was basing it on the assumption that intangible objects are not affected by gravity, having no mass. I read that somewhere, guess it wouldn't be necessarily true?

I guess it would depend on how you were intangible. The method I described would probably only affect the electromagnetic and strong/weak forces, not gravity. But if you imagine an unknown forcefield able to control those forces in that way, then we can't really rule out that it might control gravity too, since it's an unknown to us. In that case, it would be optional, but require extra power consumption, so I doubt it's likely, considering the alternative of selective application would actually save power.

 

Also, about the power requirements, in an episode of Stargate they achieve a similar effect by causing "a series of harmonic pulses which opens up the cloaked lab by magnetically resonating a hidden door from solid to a state which can be walked through" (from the Stargate Wiki). That would only take as much energy as the harmonic pulses require. I don't know if it's realistic, though, but Stargate is usually pretty good with keeping the science plausible.

Was that an episode of Atlantis? I think I remember that. I forget exactly how that worked, but if it is something like a magnetic field holding iron filings solid and then making them act liquid, it wouldn't really be intangibility, anymore than swimming is. But I think it sounded more like intangibility, and I'm pretty sure magnetic pulses, harmonic or otherwise, wouldn't really be any good for that. Stargate keeps some physics plausible, but they also have wormholes and hyperdrive, which as far as we know how to do right now are impossible.

 

And that was an Ancient device if I'm remembering right, likely meant to be way more advanced than us which is where Stargate, and most sci-fi, tends to stop worrying about real-world plausibility and rely on hypothetical unknowns (that the more advanced beings presumably discovered).

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Yeah, it was Atlantis. Using harmonics might actually work though. The atom is almost entirely empty space. If you can use very specific frequencies to offset each atom very slightly, it might have the same affect as intangibility.

 

Another way to potentially achieve intangibility would be a very slight temporal offset; occupying the same space in an infinitesimally different time. That's what they refer to as being "out of phase" in Star Trek.

 

-Letagi

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Yeah, it was Atlantis. Using harmonics might actually work though. The atom is almost entirely empty space. If you can use very specific frequencies to offset each atom very slightly, it might have the same affect as intangibility.

 

Another way to potentially achieve intangibility would be a very slight temporal offset; occupying the same space in an infinitesimally different time. That's what they refer to as being "out of phase" in Star Trek.

 

-Letagi

While the whole "out-of-phase" might be popular in sci-fy, it goes against Einstein's idea of space-time. The perception of time moving from one moment to the next is an illusion. The future and the past exist just as much as the current moment, so being offset in time won't really do much. Imagine it as a grid, one axis is space, and the other is time. If you have two lines cross through it, they will both pass through each moment of time together, no matter how much you offset them.

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Using harmonics might actually work though. The atom is almost entirely empty space. If you can use very specific frequencies to offset each atom very slightly, it might have the same affect as intangibility.

Most attempted explanations of intangibility that have "the atom is mostly empty space" are not going to be plausible because that ignores what I brought up in my first answer about intangibility -- that the space in question is filled with energies that define how atoms behave, and the shape and distances of those energies are crucial to stability. There's some wiggle room but for the most part, the "empty" space is irrelevant.

 

I agree harmonics might (maybe?) help to get the same basic effect (basically acting like a liquid), but not because of empty space in atoms. :)

 

 

Yeah, I almost brought up the phasing concept in my first post, but it's not really very clearly related to known real-world physics, so I'd consider that more of the fictional science side of sci-fi.

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A possible explanation for he Tunneler: since teacups break when they touch the ground, maybe they'll survive if the ceiling's made of jello.

 

No but seriously: since protodermis molecules are presumably large enough to carry information, and I think we've only seen Tunnelers in the Matoran Universe, maybe it changes its molecules to the form of anything that touches it, while still retaining its cognitive/other functions? Hmm, that's not really saying a lot. I don't know why it doesn't turn into whatever it's walking on, though. Or does it have control over the ability?

 

It would also be cool to see a story where a Toa of Magnetism that has emigrated to Spherus Magna has to grow accustomed to not being in a universe where almost everyone is made of metal anymore. Anyone up to that?

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Or the Tunneler (the lizard Rahi that transformed into anything it was hit with).

Yes. I want to see a scientific explanation for this. I would contribute in a way more efficient than this, but I'm too braindead at the moment. 

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Here's a tough one:  how does the mask of life work?  It mutates and grows random people who dare to touch it, but how exactly does it do it? (if there's a scientific answer for this I will be extremely impressed!)

As far as the mutation goes, whatever energy the mask puts out ("life", if you will) might be highly radioactive.  This would definitely cause growth in people who come into contact with it, but not necessarily in and form or pattern.  I know that radiation doesn't automatically mutate organisms in the real world, but this might be explained by the properties of protodermis and how it reacts to radioactivity.

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One thing I've thought about: you know how if you were intangible in real life, you would go straight throuh the planet, since gravity would have no effect on you? Well, one would assume the Mata Nui robot has some special gravity fields, so maybe that could provide an explanation to intangibility powers. (It still wouldn't explain how they could still breathe, I think)

 

I'd also like to hear one for Magnetism powers.

 

Or the Tunneler (the lizard Rahi that transformed into anything it was hit with).

Intangibility means that their matter simply does not react with regular matter in a normal way. This power can easily be explained as the toa being able to disconnect or nullify the electromagnetic repulsion of it's atoms(this keeps you from falling to the center of the world and everything from instantly collapsing on itself) so it can move through other matter uninhibited. Otherwise, a simply fast moving particle that can overcome or avoid the repulstion would also be able to do this.

 

Umbra may be entangled with an antimatter version of himself in a parallel universe, and simply interacts with that other form when needed. I'm not too sure how he reforms, but this is the easiest explanation to the antimatter problem mentioned before. 

 

Toa with magnetism powers may simply have a lot of ferromagnetic material in them that they can control at will how the magnetic field is oriented in a way that allows for control of metals.

 

Also, according to string theory, gravity is a separate energy that is disconnected from everything else, but interacts and is attracted to matter. Simply, you would need to figure out how to generate this energy or otherwise concentrate it. 

A possible explanation for he Tunneler: since teacups break when they touch the ground, maybe they'll survive if the ceiling's made of jello.

 

No but seriously: since protodermis molecules are presumably large enough to carry information, and I think we've only seen Tunnelers in the Matoran Universe, maybe it changes its molecules to the form of anything that touches it, while still retaining its cognitive/other functions?

It doesn't necessarily have to be a molecule. It can be another form of matter that is formed from exotic particles (not electrons, protons, or neutrons) and reacts with regular matter in this way. The storage of information can be a residual energy within these particles. With so many quantam states that we know of, you don't need many particles to achieve the information needed.

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No but seriously: since protodermis molecules are presumably large enough to carry information, and I think we've only seen Tunnelers in the Matoran Universe, maybe it changes its molecules to the form of anything that touches it, while still retaining its cognitive/other functions? Hmm, that's not really saying a lot. I don't know why it doesn't turn into whatever it's walking on, though. Or does it have control over the ability?


Well, BS01 says it can take the form of anything thrown at it, and gives fire as an example. Given the glass-fragment = bad thing, this is just plain confusing; a lizard made of fire is surely worse off than just shattered, yeah? I'm not 100% sure Greg really thought this one through. And what if you fire electricity at it? Molecules can't turn into that, so is it really an elemental that changes elements, regardless of the element?

As for control, evidently not since it didn't just turn into something else other than glass.

 

It would also be cool to see a story where a Toa of Magnetism that has emigrated to Spherus Magna has to grow accustomed to not being in a universe where almost everyone is made of metal anymore. Anyone up to that?


Almost everyone does have metal armor, a metallic skeleton, and technological implants, though. (If you'd said almost everything, implying creatures, that would work though; many SM creatures are dangerous.)

I think you could get the same effect more plausibly if the Toa gets left behind by the giant robot on an alien world and these aliens are totally organic.

 

Here's a tough one:  how does the mask of life work?  It mutates and grows random people who dare to touch it, but how exactly does it do it? (if there's a scientific answer for this I will be extremely impressed!)


I think you'd have to go for a full explanation of protodermis and powers in general to get that one. So basically... everything ever said in S&T. :P

 

As far as the mutation goes, whatever energy the mask puts out ("life", if you will) might be highly radioactive.  This would definitely cause growth in people who come into contact with it, but not necessarily in and form or pattern.  I know that radiation doesn't automatically mutate organisms in the real world, but this might be explained by the properties of protodermis and how it reacts to radioactivity.


Uh... radioactivity kills. This ain't Gilligan's Island. :P

 

Intangibility means that their matter simply does not react with regular matter in a normal way. This power can easily be explained as the toa being able to disconnect or nullify the electromagnetic repulsion of it's atoms(this keeps you from falling to the center of the world and everything from instantly collapsing on itself) so it can move through other matter uninhibited.

Methinks it's best not to call intangibility simple. :P This description, unlike the one I posted earlier, says nothing about how the Toa's molecules and body then don't fall apart, basically being vaporized, because those same EM fields also hold them together. You'd have to do it extremely selectively. And this doesn't account for possible nuclear explosions or just damage similar to radioactivity from atomic nuclei colliding as you pass through a wall, since you only mentioned the EM force.
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As far as the mutation goes, whatever energy the mask puts out ("life", if you will) might be highly radioactive.  This would definitely cause growth in people who come into contact with it, but not necessarily in and form or pattern.  I know that radiation doesn't automatically mutate organisms in the real world, but this might be explained by the properties of protodermis and how it reacts to radioactivity.

 

Uh... radioactivity kills. This ain't Gilligan's Island. :P

 

 

 

Well yes radioactivity kills, but doesn't irradiation of organisms generally result in mutations?

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As far as the mutation goes, whatever energy the mask puts out ("life", if you will) might be highly radioactive.  This would definitely cause growth in people who come into contact with it, but not necessarily in and form or pattern.  I know that radiation doesn't automatically mutate organisms in the real world, but this might be explained by the properties of protodermis and how it reacts to radioactivity.
Uh... radioactivity kills. This ain't Gilligan's Island. :P

 

Well yes radioactivity kills, but doesn't irradiation of organisms generally result in mutations?

Only on a cellular level, and those cellular mutations are never good. We call them cancer.

 

-Letagi

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The more likely way the Mask of Life works is through viruses. While radiation can mutate living tissue, it's random and most of the time just kills the cell. Viruses, however, can cause very specific mutations. Viruses work by injecting their RNA inside a host cell, and tricking that cell into making another virus cell (or that is at least my understanding of it). If you were very clever at bioengineering, you could in theory insert a gene into a cell using a virus, causing a specific mutation, but I doubt it's that simple. I'm good at physics, not biology :P

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The more likely way the Mask of Life works is through viruses.

In canon I think it's clearly an energy-based power like elemental powers. In real life, though, yeah, highly intelligent control of (and projectile launching of, or something) viruses could probably get about the same effect.

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Intangibility can be explained by a kind of "baryon communication border." Basically, this causes baryonic matter inside the border not to "recognize" matter outside it as baryonic, and vice versa. Thus intangible and normal matter will not interact in any of the ways we consider physical matter to.

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Intangibility really goes back to Pauli's exclusion principle, which states that no two fermions can occupy the same quantum state. Basically, particles like atoms can't overlap like light can. Even if you found a way to go around this, the atoms within the intangible object would fall apart, since they would be able to pass through themselves.

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The more likely way the Mask of Life works is through viruses.

In canon I think it's clearly an energy-based power like elemental powers. In real life, though, yeah, highly intelligent control of (and projectile launching of, or something) viruses could probably get about the same effect.

 

It could also be some kind of steroid projectile along with the viruses, which could explain the giant venom eel and gadunka.

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So as far as mutations caused by radiation go, this never results in new information, only the loss of it as nucleotide bases are blasted off of their respective DNA strands. If there is a gene to code, say, regenerative capabilities (okay, more than one gene) and it gets irradiated information will be lost. When something needs to regenerate, it will begin the process but will ultimately fail when the ever necessary conditions aren't met because it doesn't know what to do. Most creatures with drastic mutations don't actually survive long after being born, if they even made it to that point. Those that do survive die quickly in the wild, so it is nothing like the movies where radiation gives you super powers.

 

Now of course, the Mask of Life must get its abilities by a different means. From what I understand, almost everything, if not everything, is made of protodermis inside the Mata Nui robot. Being that the mask is not just any random mask, but a mask with a purpose to, again, according to my understanding, heal and maintain Mata Nui, it would make sense that it would have a sort of "higher power"; being able to communicate and control directly with the substance commonly known as protodermis (more on that later). This is necessary because more than once, the mask operated at a distance. I am aware that the Mask of Life was still functional on Bara Magna, but as far as I know, this never happened without the mask coming into contact with the "changee". Fortunately, TuragaOfVirtues has a brilliant solution to this: the use of viruses. The Mask of Life could be coated completely with some approximation of viruses, carriers of information. Viruses alone would not be enough, however, at least to cause mutations at that speed. They would need to either be equipped with building tools or accompanied by an entity that is. Giving a Glatorian toa powers may not yield any other significant difference, but tools or weapons could become heavier or lighter for their size depending on how the "viruses" used the material from the old tool or weapon.

 

Here is what I have to say on protodermis:

There are several ways to code information on an individual atom, of which I can't say I am familiar with most. Regardless, protodermis would have to be a fairly large molecule because of the many forms it takes. Changing the rotation of an electron would not effect the properties of of protodermis on a macroscopic scale. As a large molecule, the interaction of protodermis with certain impurities could alter the protodermis's shape at the microscopic scale, which can have a significant effect on the macroscopic scale. Large enough of a molecule, and it could have its own method of primitive locomotion, allowing a puddle of energized protodermis to take shape and protodermis in general to submit to the power of the mask.

 

I find this topic to be rather interesting so I will certainly be checking back. If you have some critisism for this post, I will be sure to reply to it, if I'm needed anyway. Keep up the good work, TuragaOfVirtues!

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I find this topic to be rather interesting so I will certainly be checking back. If you have some critisism for this post, I will be sure to reply to it, if I'm needed anyway. Keep up the good work, TuragaOfVirtues!

Thank you!

 

Even though the majority of things in Bionicle are impossible, thinking about it brings up many interesting ideas. And props to the people who have joined in this discussion with scientific backgrounds!

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@ The Mask of Life: Erm, I want to say that it's an energy power, not a virus. The latter would be slower acting. 

 

It's a property of our universe that most energies that act on our bodies are harmful. The Bionicle universe may not have this property (most fictional universes don't), which could allow the protodermis molecules to react to a certain kind of energy in a positive way or a certain transformative way. There could be a variety of such energies, and the Mask of Life could control which energy, how much, etc. 

 

This also could be related to the fact that MU beings are mechanical - running energy into my computer changes it from an inanimate plastic box into a useful tool. Without the electricity, it's useless. Same deal - MU beings run on a certain type of energy, and the Mask of Life can change that energy, drain it, or add more, etc. 

 

None of that exactly explains the SM beings, but it could be a simple matter of using energy that affects normal matter positively instead of negatively. It may not exist in our world, but it is possible in a fictional one, theoretically.

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Remember, this topic is not meant to describe how events work in cannon, but merely how they might work in real life. If you told a bio-engineer to use "energy-power" to cause a mutation, they might give you a confused look. The only way we can theorize about it is to connect it to things we know about, even if it doesn't replicate the results entirely.

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Except we already have other powers that aren't going to be explained by biology or similar chemical things, but energy-based explanations, like intangibility. :) Ergo, energy-based explorations of physics concepts are valid for any Bionicle power, including if it's using that energy to manipulate matter (including biology).

 

In my ancient Wacky Physics topic (which did basically the same thing as this topic incidentally), one of my examples was that a "pinpoint field" of electromagnetism (the pinpoints being charges opposite of the main field), aligned with each atom's natural EM field (opposing), could force the atoms to move around magnetically. Theoretically if you had enough detail, any power involving motion (even motion of genetics biochemistry), as long as it can work within the limits of the existing materials (atoms, and maybe molecules if changing to a particular type of molecule, or away from one, would be too explosive), could work in this way. Including controlling life.

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I concede that the Mask of Life would probably need to use certain energies to aid in the task of transformation, but those energies alone would not be enough to do the job. Yes, that is likely all that was needed in the Matoran Universe, providing that protodermis was able to respond to said energies. On Spherus Magna, however, there is no protodermis. This means that something must directly control the process rather than leaving it to the substance the object or being is made of. Hence, "viruses" (or perhaps that's not the right term) would need to be present as the hands and fingers of the mask. Sure, they would probably need some assistance, so the mask could continue to provide the energy to complete the operation, even fling the "micro-workers" (perhaps that's a better term) towards its target. But it would be nigh impossible to control these energies radiating from the mask in such a way as to constructively alter the target's structure without something to receive these energies and implement them. Thus is my opinion.

 

Aside from that, I would like to see someone tackle the subject of toa powers. Here is a complete list of, more specifically, toa elemental powers:

-Fire

-Earth

-Stone

-Air

-Water

-Ice

-Light

-Gravity

-Sonics

-Plasma

-Green (jungle/plants)

-Magnetism

-Lightning

-Iron

-Psionics (of mental nature)

 

Some of these may be easier than others, but the general qualifications for explaining each are as follows: 1) Energy-where does it come from, how is it conducted, how much is needed?, 2) Control-how are energies directed, how is matter manipulated?, 3) Limitations-why can't toa control elements of a similar nature?

 

I know this is sort of complicated question, but nobody had brought it up so I wanted to make sure it was out there.

 

And if I may pose one additional question, when I first joined BZPower (not too long ago, actually) I started a topic called "The Formation of Voya Nui". There were some good answers, but the concensus was that no one really knew. In my last post, I proposed an idea as to why Voya Nui went up instead of down. No one has responded to it and I think that it is right up the ally of this topic. So if you feel up to it, care to review my proposition? Any takers?

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Another question is the idea of teleportation. Supposedly, it takes you apart and puts you back together. Well, it would have to save everything about you while you teleport so it can put you back together. Second, it would have to move your molecules very quickly for it to be faster than just flying where you want to go. Third, the molecules need some way to get through all the other matter between you and your destination, say, the walls of your fortress, and without losing random molecules here and there, so you might need to add intangibility to that list (I suppose the Kualsi doesn't have this feature, so it's line-of-sight only). Finally, it has to put you back together exactly the way you were, with sufficient precision to avoid genetic damage or memory loss. 

 

So any idea how this all works?

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Hence, "viruses" (or perhaps that's not the right term) would need to be present as the hands and fingers of the mask

Let's be careful with "need" here -- as if that's the only option. That's one option (and just to be clear, is not the case canonically; this would only be if we wanted to have superior life control in real life).

 

Possibly a better term would be nanotech, though, maybe even nanites.

 

Aside from that, I would like to see someone tackle the subject of toa powers.

My Wacky Physics topic covered most of them (other than Gravity basically) with the idea of the pinpoint EM field and taking it as a given that matter/energy conversion is somehow possible (but we don't know how to do it in the kind of controlled way needed for this, or teleportation BTW). Then, the Toa's power coding itself simply has the list of limits and inclusions as to what the specific fields and allowed conversions are, and of course there has to be a power source. Well, and the power has to tie in to their mental control with high intelligence capability. Then for the different elements, just change the list of what's controlled.

 

Gravity would need some fictional/hypothetical even more fundamental energy or something to control, though. So, I think canonical powers need to use such an energy and probably use it for all powers, even though an EM field could work too. (Of course, making an EM field in a 3D pinpoint arrangement is itself a problem anyways.)

 

 

Re: teleportation -- in real life, it's basically a very, very, very bad idea. The real first prerequisite for it, rarely talked about, is a stasis field (which snaps on instantly everywhere). Unless you could dematerialize every part of the person instantly instead. No bit by bit thing (so no sparkles or fadeouts as they use in Star Trek). Assuming we don't have that, you need to hold every atom completely still to take the body safely apart bit by bit. If the stasis field lapses even for a tiny fraction of a nanosecond, you die. And that only begins the list of ways to die. I could go into more detail on how to make parts of it work, but eh. I'll leave that to others, and suffice to say we don't know how to do the important parts (plus, the amount of energy being transferred could blow the planet up several times over if accidentally released in energy form).

 

Try vehicles. :P

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Something just occurred to me. Does Mata Nui have an FTL drive? Even moving at the speed of light, he wouldn't have been able to visit that many star systems in 100,000 years, especially if he wanted to spend any time observing at any of them.

 

-Letagi

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Something just occurred to me. Does Mata Nui have an FTL drive? Even moving at the speed of light, he wouldn't have been able to visit that many star systems in 100,000 years, especially if he wanted to spend any time observing at any of them.

 

-Letagi

 

I always assumed he worked as a giant telescope, sort of like Voyager 1 but... really big. That would seem a lot more reasonable to me, traveling faster than light would be very inefficient in comparison, never mind all the problems with relativity and causality and such. Actually, I just asked Greg this, seeing how it's not really explained in-cannon either.

Edited by Toa Of Virtues

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Traveling faster than light via warp is totally plausible if you have enough energy, and doesn't have any relativistic or causality problems. Current theoretical models require about 2000 kg of anti-matter for a two-week trip to Proxima Centauri, if I remember correctly. What do you mean by as a telescope?

 

-Letagi

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Firstly, faster-than-light travel is impossible in real life. This is a core principle when understanding Einstein's theory of special relativity. Here is an example of proof:

 

The Large Hadron Collider accelerates particles around in a large underground circle. With each revolution, very powerful magnets increase the speed of the particle more and more. Once the particle nears the speed of light, something very strange happens: the particle gets heavier. Because the energy being put into it can't make it go faster than light, the excess energy is converted into mass. It's an asymptotic relationship, you can get closer and closer to the speed of light, but you can never reach it. The only way you could even reach the speed of light is if you are massless, like photons or gluons.

 

Imagine you are on a train, and you shine a flashlight in front of you. From your point of view, the light is moving at the speed of light, but what if you were looking at it from outside the train? You would think that you would see the light going at the speed of light, plus the velocity of the train, but this is not what happens. In reality, both points of view would see the light moving at the exact same speed. The only way this could work is if time was running slower on the train, and the train looked slightly shortened. This effect is known as space and time dilation, and it has been proven to exist many times.

 

Basically, Einstein's theory of special relativity states that light travels at the same speed regardless of your reference frame, and that nothing can move through space faster than light.

 

 

As for the telescope, Mata Nui could observe distant worlds the way a space telescope does. This way, he wouldn't have to travel that far to get a good view of a world, just really good optics.

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I'm familiar with relativity. Warp drive takes advantage of the fact that space is flexible. The basic idea is to create a "bubble" of normal space, with "compressed" space in front and "expanded" space behind. The effect of this is a wave-like oscillation that a spacecraft can ride. This method can be used to get from one place to another in less time than a photon would take to make the trip, but without breaking any laws of physics and without any acceleration at all, because the spacecraft is stationary within the static warp field. Look up warp theory or the Alcubierre Drive for more information.

 

And if Mata Nui used a telescope, he would see civilizations as they appeared long ago, proportional to the distance to the planet in question, not how they appear now. This could be a problem, but we can combine the two ideas. By observing a civilization from a distance, and periodically using a warp drive to move in closer, Mata Nui could observe the entire history of a civilization.

Edited by Letagi
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Hm, the warp theory doesn't sit well with me. I suppose it is similar to using a wormhole, but there are problems with that too. When you combine it with relativity, you can cheat a way to travel into the past by sending the wormhole on a fast moving rocket so time slows down, return to Earth (where the other opening is), and walking through it. Reading up on it more, it seems like there is a way to use the Alcubierre Drive to cheat yourself into the past as well. Space does not like to be cheated, and it seems to do anything to prevent information from traveling faster than light. Also, both wormholes and warping require negative mass, something that may not even exist. It's a clever theory, though.

 

And if faster than light travel isn't possible, then he's stuck with being a giant telescope, which isn't really a problem. It doesn't really matter if he is looking at them in the past, since he would never  travel to them in the first place. It's like an alien reading a history book, they can still learn a lot, even if they don't know what we are like now or what we will be in the future.

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Actually, IRL transporting data FTL is possible, and we have an idea of how to do it, but the tech's not advanced enough yet.

 Kopaka, the coolest(Pun intended) Ko-Toa ever:

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Try vehicles. :P

 

 

What about them? You mean the flying ones in the Mistika line? Yeah, they would not work well in real life, since they have no wings or downward facing propellers. I suppose they could have a form of electromagnetic levitation, but it would only be able to work above metal.

It was a joke about how in real life teleportation would be extremely dangerous -- if you wanna get somewhere here, try a vehicle instead. Much safer. Had nothing to do with Bionicle vehicles, but not a bad idea to investigate them too here. :)

 

Also, unsure why you would single out the Mistika vehicles as what I meant there. :lookaround: But regardless, yeah, those ones seemed to have some sort of antigravity. Which so far as we know isn't actually possible in real life. Also, for maglev, you need something much more complex than just metal, but short on time to describe it (and I have a specific mechanism for one of my non-Bionicle scifi stories I'd rather not spoil so yeah :P).

 

Something just occurred to me. Does Mata Nui have an FTL drive? Even moving at the speed of light, he wouldn't have been able to visit that many star systems in 100,000 years, especially if he wanted to spend any time observing at any of them.

 

-Letagi

Greg said he doesn't. I'd originally assumed he does for my retelling and have to keep editing (as I chose to stick to this one, not that I would have to, but yeah) everywhere I see it in the draft now lol.

 

But actually, 100,000 years is plenty of time for his purposes. FLT would be cool, but also overkill. He just needed to study enough megaplanets to have a good sense of how to reform SM. At speeds up to half lightspeed, you can get to most near stars fairly quickly, and if the Bionicle universe has basically a megaplanet orbiting every star (or every other star, etc.) he could visit quite a lot. Add to that that Greg said there's multiple inhabited planets in the Solis Magna system alone.

 

Traveling faster than light via warp is totally plausible if you have enough energy, and doesn't have any relativistic or causality problems. Current theoretical models require about 2000 kg of anti-matter for a two-week trip to Proxima Centauri, if I remember correctly. What do you mean by as a telescope?

 

-Letagi

"Totally plausible" and "FTL" don't really belong in the same sentence, at least not in a "real life" focused discussion. :P

 

Fictional stories may freely imagine an alternate reality in which it's possible, and sci-fi may even predict unknown future discoveries in this one that might enable it (perhaps something below the level of quantum mechanics which we don't currently understand). But in this world, as far as we know currently, it isn't plausible. So, it's probably a good thing the giant robot doesn't have it, although given the wacky powers already seen inside it, it probably could have if they'd wanted it to.

 

I'm not sure why we're talking about Mata Nui "using a telescope". He was landing on this planets, in their oceans, and disguising his face with the camouflage island. Undoubtedly his sensors have zoom features, though, and I'm sure he would have to scan systems before committing to the trip each time. :)

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The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

My Bionicle Fanfiction  (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it)

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