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Toa Velika


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We know that Alt-Velika (non-GB) became a Toa in an alternate universe. My question and discussion topics for this thread are:

 

1) Could Velika the GB become a Toa of Stone?

 

2) Would he want to become a Toa?

 

3) Can he (or any other Destined Matoran) become a Toa against their will?

 

Discuss, wonder, ask Greg.

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Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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1. I'm sure he could, where he destined.  Perhaps, being a Great Being, he could even influence such a thing to happen; I'm unclear as to the level of control the GBs currently have over MU lifeforms.

2. If it suited his purposes.

3. Other Matoran certainly.  Velika, though, might be able to influence that; again, I'm unsure as to how destiny factors into the will of a GB.

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"And at the closing of the day              


                     She loosed the chain, and down she lay;              


                The broad stream bore her far away,              


           The Lady of Shalott."              


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Interesting. I was wondering if he could be stopped by turning him into a Toa and unleashing Marendar upon him... Ultimate Match of Ultimate Destiny, huh?

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Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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1. He could become a Toa, but I don't think he would have access to the powers of a Toa of Stone. Remember when Tren Krom processed Lewa Nuva's body? Even though he had the body of a Toa of Air, he couldn't access that elemental powers. I know that the circumstance with Velika are different (I think), I still don't think he would have the elemental power of stone.

 

2. He might, though I think he would appear as less of a threat in a Matoran's body instead of a Toa's. So he may have wanted to stay in a Matoran for that purpose. 

 

3. As others have said, they could indeed become Toa against their will.

Everyone is one choice away from being the bad guy in another person's story.


 


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1. Everyone is wrong. No he couldn't. The only reason he could in an AU is because he wasn't a GB in that AU.

 

2. He's a GB. I wouldn't see why?

 

3. I suppose.

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It's been confirmed that Velika WAS a GB in that dimension. 

 

Velika

Was Velika in the Kingdom Alternate Universe also a Great Being?

Yes

 

 

 http://i.imgur.com/GDs4q3e.gif

 

Looks like we got us an answer, folks.

 

 

 

Edit: Please link to images over 750 kB.

-Wind-

Edited by Jayk
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15863836330_7c7ce4fb30.jpg


"And at the closing of the day              


                     She loosed the chain, and down she lay;              


                The broad stream bore her far away,              


           The Lady of Shalott."              


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That's really weird, because I remember when I asked this same question a while back, not sure was it on LMB or here, I got the answer that he wasn't in the Kingdom, and that's why the Kingdom Velika became Toa. It was also stated that in that universe MU sapiance (I hope its the right term) was established all along within the programming.

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I may have to retract my Goldblum...

 

 
Re: Chat with Greg Farshtey 08-12-2014 02:01 PM
Phantoka123Mistika wrote:

 

3) Was the Velika from The Kingdom Alternate Universe (who became a Toa) also a Great Being?

 

 

 

3) No

Edited by Jayk

15863836330_7c7ce4fb30.jpg


"And at the closing of the day              


                     She loosed the chain, and down she lay;              


                The broad stream bore her far away,              


           The Lady of Shalott."              


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Well, then, we have a contradiction on our hands. BS01 was edited (by me) to reflect the more recent answer, but if a previous answer exists which contradicts that answer, it takes precedence. I will edit BS01 accordingly. Sorry about the confusion!

 

Anyway, that should answer the OP. I don't see any reason Velika couldn't become a Toa; it's a purely physical change, and it presumably wouldn't mess with his consciousness.

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Well, then, we have a contradiction on our hands. BS01 was edited (by me) to reflect the more recent answer, but if a previous answer exists which contradicts that answer, it takes precedence. I will edit BS01 accordingly. Sorry about the confusion!

 

Anyway, that should answer the OP. I don't see any reason Velika couldn't become a Toa; it's a purely physical change, and it presumably wouldn't mess with his consciousness.

 

http://i.imgur.com/l0OZie7.gif

 

Crisis averted!

 

 

Edit: Please link images over 750 kB.

-Wind-

Edited by Jayk
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15863836330_7c7ce4fb30.jpg


"And at the closing of the day              


                     She loosed the chain, and down she lay;              


                The broad stream bore her far away,              


           The Lady of Shalott."              


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I believe Greg went with the idea that Velika wasn't a GB in several followup questions though... This should be taken to him.

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"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of Elders

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Get one last answer to clarify things, I reckon. While we're checking that out, could someone ask which way a fight between Marendar and Velika as a Toa would go? I'm interested to hear Greg's opinion on that, and it can possibly resolve the story of one of those post-Reformation antagonists.

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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You can do that if you like, but he will probably say the same thing he has said in many such forgetcon situations: that he cannot be expected to remember everything he has ever said about the BIONICLE saga, and that we should check his current answers against his older ones. Make sure to explain that he first said Velika was a GB in the AU.

 

 

 


Get one last answer to clarify things, I reckon. While we're checking that out, could someone ask which way a fight between Marendar and Velika as a Toa would go? I'm interested to hear Greg's opinion on that, and it can possibly resolve the story of one of those post-Reformation antagonists.

 

 

Greg never answers hypothetical fight scenes, because of all the variables that go into a conflict.

Edited by Yaldabaoth
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
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Darn. Well, that's a problem. I'd like to get some closure, and the easiest way is to ask. Perhaps there's another way to clear that up...

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Of course The Kingdom Velika was a Great Being. Everything that happened before Matoro's attempt to revive Mata Nui, including the moment where Velika body-swapped into a Matoran body over 101,000 years prior, is exactly the same.

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     I'm pretty sure a Matoran can't become a Toa against their will. Look at Takua in MoL, despite having access to the Toa Power he didn't become a Toa until he accepted his responsibilities and such.

Let's not forget that's also when he decided to put the Avohkii on his face. If he has accidentally tripped and fallen face-first onto the mask, then he could have become the Toa of Light then and there.

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Those Toa stones had little-to-no power in them. The Toa Metru already sacrificed all the power to wake up the Matoran. They could only act as a summoning tool with their low energy levels and what not.

 

And just to be clear, the reason why Velika isn't a GB in the Kingdom is because he became a Toa, but also because he didn't stop the universe from failing at all. He just did his generic duties. All of this has been already examined and ratified months (or a year?) ago. :)

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***


"For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day."


 


Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna!


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And just to be clear, the reason why Velika isn't a GB in the Kingdom is because he became a Toa, but also because he didn't stop the universe from failing at all. He just did his generic duties. All of this has been already examined and ratified months (or a year?) ago. :)

 

Is that why we think he wasn't a GB in the Kingdom? Because he could have given up after his Prime Directive-mindset led the universe to destruction.

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Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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I mean, I'm just going off the logic that was offered when this was established.

It makes sense also.

                      Archon                      


***


"For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day."


 


Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna!


***Toa Kyraan***

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I'm not arguing, but establishing a different motive. It's entirely possible Toa Velika there is suffering from some form of GB equivalent of PTSD, watching a creation fail spectacularly.

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Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Those Toa stones had little-to-no power in them. The Toa Metru already sacrificed all the power to wake up the Matoran. They could only act as a summoning tool with their low energy levels and what not.

 

Wrong. Read Maze of Shadows. The Metru made the Toa Stones on Mata Nui before returning to Metru Nui for the rest of the Matoran. Besides, the amount of Toa power in an object has nothing to do with it. There is latent Toa power in the Matoran--the Toa stone just acts as the spark that lights the flame.

 

 

More on topic, I don't get what you mean by "Become a Toa against their will." Yes to the first two questions, though, if the second one serves only to increase his power.

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Without doing something to trigger the transformation on their own. The Toa Metru took Toa Stones to the Suva Metru (or whatever it's called). The Inika hid in Toa Canisters, though that was just all-round weird.

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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It's a question of whether the body or the mind determines if Velika can become a toa.

I'm going to say yes, as long as Velika (matoran ) was destined to become a toa, because Velika (great being) probably can't.

It would depend on whether it's just "possession" Velika's body, or he shape-shifted into a matoran (the possession idea feels more likely).

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And just to be clear, the reason why Velika isn't a GB in the Kingdom is because he became a Toa,

Is that why we think he wasn't a GB in the Kingdom? Because he could have given up after his Prime Directive-mindset led the universe to destruction.

It's been confirmed that Velika WAS a GB in that dimension. 

 

Velika

Was Velika in the Kingdom Alternate Universe also a Great Being?

Yes

 

:P

 

Well, okay, fine, that might have something to do with it. But you have to keep in mind that even in the Kingdom AU, Velika wasn't a Toa before the universe went bleh. Main!Velika trusted the universe to Matoro (and that was a good decision), so there's no reason that Alternate!Velika wouldn't do the same. 

 

As for fixing the universe after the fact, there's only so much one GB can do without blowing his cover. At this point he is faced with the near-impossible task of lifting a water logged giant robot out of the sea and draining the water out of it, getting another Toa to sacrifice himself, and hoping that everything survived being damaged enough to still work. If Mata Nui's spirit is completely destroyed (you want to bet), he has to find a spirit that CAN power it or hope that he can train some other MUians to pilot the thing using the Glatorian panel. 

 

On the other hand...Let's just build a rocket and get out of here. 

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Of course The Kingdom Velika was a Great Being. Everything that happened before Matoro's attempt to revive Mata Nui, including the moment where Velika body-swapped into a Matoran body over 101,000 years prior, is exactly the same.

It would be weird if there were other discrepancies as well, I agree, as it would make the notion of these alternate dimensions more complicated than they already are. 

 

-NotS

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There's no reason to think the Velika in that universe was not a Great Being. The timeline is exactly the same until somewhere along the 2006-2007 story.

 

Velika's body was a matoran's so it was sunbject to everything biologically any other matoran was, including becoming a toa.

 

Whether he'd want to, I don't know, but I think he was mostly going along with whatever happened.

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