Regitnui Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 We know that Alt-Velika (non-GB) became a Toa in an alternate universe. My question and discussion topics for this thread are: 1) Could Velika the GB become a Toa of Stone? 2) Would he want to become a Toa? 3) Can he (or any other Destined Matoran) become a Toa against their will? Discuss, wonder, ask Greg. 1 Quote Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pohatu: Uniter of Stone Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Yes if he was destined, Maybe, we don't know, and yes- the Toa Metru and Inika didn't want to become Toa, but they did. Quote I HATE SCORPIOS ~Pohatu Master of Stone, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayk Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 1. I'm sure he could, where he destined. Perhaps, being a Great Being, he could even influence such a thing to happen; I'm unclear as to the level of control the GBs currently have over MU lifeforms.2. If it suited his purposes.3. Other Matoran certainly. Velika, though, might be able to influence that; again, I'm unsure as to how destiny factors into the will of a GB. Quote "And at the closing of the day She loosed the chain, and down she lay; The broad stream bore her far away, The Lady of Shalott." + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regitnui Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Interesting. I was wondering if he could be stopped by turning him into a Toa and unleashing Marendar upon him... Ultimate Match of Ultimate Destiny, huh? 2 Quote Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toa Smoke Monster Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 1. He could become a Toa, but I don't think he would have access to the powers of a Toa of Stone. Remember when Tren Krom processed Lewa Nuva's body? Even though he had the body of a Toa of Air, he couldn't access that elemental powers. I know that the circumstance with Velika are different (I think), I still don't think he would have the elemental power of stone. 2. He might, though I think he would appear as less of a threat in a Matoran's body instead of a Toa's. So he may have wanted to stay in a Matoran for that purpose. 3. As others have said, they could indeed become Toa against their will. Quote Everyone is one choice away from being the bad guy in another person's story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boidoh Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 1. Everyone is wrong. No he couldn't. The only reason he could in an AU is because he wasn't a GB in that AU. 2. He's a GB. I wouldn't see why? 3. I suppose. Quote Add me on 3DS: 0516-7750-0068Add me on Wii U: Boidoh "I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 4: Never Trust a Snake"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of EldersLike, Comment, And Subscribe for Nintendo Content - NinBoidoh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toa R. Lih Nit Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 If The Kingdom Velika isn't a Great Being the spaceship, spaceship, SPACESHIP!!! proyect with Nuparu is doomedGreg messed up Gen 1, again... Quote Velika is Love. Velika is Life. Velika did NOTHING wrong. Proud fan of Rebecca Black, BabyMetal and Protector Of Fire's Son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishers64 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 It's been confirmed that Velika WAS a GB in that dimension. VelikaWas Velika in the Kingdom Alternate Universe also a Great Being?Yes 3 Quote Hero Factory RPG | Bionicle Mafia XXIX: Storyline & Theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayk Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) It's been confirmed that Velika WAS a GB in that dimension. VelikaWas Velika in the Kingdom Alternate Universe also a Great Being?Yes http://i.imgur.com/GDs4q3e.gif Looks like we got us an answer, folks. Edit: Please link to images over 750 kB.-Wind- Edited December 19, 2014 by Jayk 2 Quote "And at the closing of the day She loosed the chain, and down she lay; The broad stream bore her far away, The Lady of Shalott." + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon~ Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 That's really weird, because I remember when I asked this same question a while back, not sure was it on LMB or here, I got the answer that he wasn't in the Kingdom, and that's why the Kingdom Velika became Toa. It was also stated that in that universe MU sapiance (I hope its the right term) was established all along within the programming. Quote Archon *** "For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day." Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna! ***Toa Kyraan*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayk Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) I may have to retract my Goldblum... Re: Chat with Greg Farshtey 08-12-2014 02:01 PMPhantoka123Mistika wrote: 3) Was the Velika from The Kingdom Alternate Universe (who became a Toa) also a Great Being? 3) No Edited December 18, 2014 by Jayk Quote "And at the closing of the day She loosed the chain, and down she lay; The broad stream bore her far away, The Lady of Shalott." + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALVIS Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Well, then, we have a contradiction on our hands. BS01 was edited (by me) to reflect the more recent answer, but if a previous answer exists which contradicts that answer, it takes precedence. I will edit BS01 accordingly. Sorry about the confusion! Anyway, that should answer the OP. I don't see any reason Velika couldn't become a Toa; it's a purely physical change, and it presumably wouldn't mess with his consciousness. 4 Quote "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant." -- Harlan Ellison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayk Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) Well, then, we have a contradiction on our hands. BS01 was edited (by me) to reflect the more recent answer, but if a previous answer exists which contradicts that answer, it takes precedence. I will edit BS01 accordingly. Sorry about the confusion! Anyway, that should answer the OP. I don't see any reason Velika couldn't become a Toa; it's a purely physical change, and it presumably wouldn't mess with his consciousness. http://i.imgur.com/l0OZie7.gif Crisis averted! Edit: Please link images over 750 kB.-Wind- Edited December 19, 2014 by Jayk 4 Quote "And at the closing of the day She loosed the chain, and down she lay; The broad stream bore her far away, The Lady of Shalott." + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boidoh Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I believe Greg went with the idea that Velika wasn't a GB in several followup questions though... This should be taken to him. 1 Quote Add me on 3DS: 0516-7750-0068Add me on Wii U: Boidoh "I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 4: Never Trust a Snake"I am Lloyd Garmadon, son of Lord Garmadon." - Lloyd, Episode 44: Corridor of EldersLike, Comment, And Subscribe for Nintendo Content - NinBoidoh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regitnui Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Get one last answer to clarify things, I reckon. While we're checking that out, could someone ask which way a fight between Marendar and Velika as a Toa would go? I'm interested to hear Greg's opinion on that, and it can possibly resolve the story of one of those post-Reformation antagonists. Quote Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALVIS Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) You can do that if you like, but he will probably say the same thing he has said in many such forgetcon situations: that he cannot be expected to remember everything he has ever said about the BIONICLE saga, and that we should check his current answers against his older ones. Make sure to explain that he first said Velika was a GB in the AU. Get one last answer to clarify things, I reckon. While we're checking that out, could someone ask which way a fight between Marendar and Velika as a Toa would go? I'm interested to hear Greg's opinion on that, and it can possibly resolve the story of one of those post-Reformation antagonists. Greg never answers hypothetical fight scenes, because of all the variables that go into a conflict. Edited December 18, 2014 by Yaldabaoth Quote "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant." -- Harlan Ellison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regitnui Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Darn. Well, that's a problem. I'd like to get some closure, and the easiest way is to ask. Perhaps there's another way to clear that up... 1 Quote Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Rahkmaninoff Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I'm pretty sure a Matoran can't become a Toa against their will. Look at Takua in MoL, despite having access to the Toa Power he didn't become a Toa until he accepted his responsibilities and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makuta_of_Oz Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Of course The Kingdom Velika was a Great Being. Everything that happened before Matoro's attempt to revive Mata Nui, including the moment where Velika body-swapped into a Matoran body over 101,000 years prior, is exactly the same. 1 Quote If you use correct grammar in your posts (or try hard to), place this in your signature. Join Myst's campaign for correct grammar usage on BZPower! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeb Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I'm pretty sure a Matoran can't become a Toa against their will. Look at Takua in MoL, despite having access to the Toa Power he didn't become a Toa until he accepted his responsibilities and such.Let's not forget that's also when he decided to put the Avohkii on his face. If he has accidentally tripped and fallen face-first onto the mask, then he could have become the Toa of Light then and there. Quote The artist formerly known as ŜﮞρЄЯ־GЄNіﮞŜ־CЯЄ▲Ŧ۞Я BBC#69 Entry: Roodaka - Master of Manipulation BFTGM entries: Zigben · Ventox · Deflecto “Hail Denmark.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Rahkmaninoff Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I thought that scene was symbolizing his acceptance of his destiny, without which he could not have become a Toa. Also, it just occurred to me that Takua collected six Toa stones to summon the Toa before the events of MNOG and never became a Toa by touching them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon~ Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Those Toa stones had little-to-no power in them. The Toa Metru already sacrificed all the power to wake up the Matoran. They could only act as a summoning tool with their low energy levels and what not. And just to be clear, the reason why Velika isn't a GB in the Kingdom is because he became a Toa, but also because he didn't stop the universe from failing at all. He just did his generic duties. All of this has been already examined and ratified months (or a year?) ago. Quote Archon *** "For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day." Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna! ***Toa Kyraan*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regitnui Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 And just to be clear, the reason why Velika isn't a GB in the Kingdom is because he became a Toa, but also because he didn't stop the universe from failing at all. He just did his generic duties. All of this has been already examined and ratified months (or a year?) ago. Is that why we think he wasn't a GB in the Kingdom? Because he could have given up after his Prime Directive-mindset led the universe to destruction. Quote Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon~ Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I mean, I'm just going off the logic that was offered when this was established.It makes sense also. Quote Archon *** "For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day." Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna! ***Toa Kyraan*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regitnui Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 I'm not arguing, but establishing a different motive. It's entirely possible Toa Velika there is suffering from some form of GB equivalent of PTSD, watching a creation fail spectacularly. 2 Quote Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 1st Shadow Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) Those Toa stones had little-to-no power in them. The Toa Metru already sacrificed all the power to wake up the Matoran. They could only act as a summoning tool with their low energy levels and what not. Wrong. Read Maze of Shadows. The Metru made the Toa Stones on Mata Nui before returning to Metru Nui for the rest of the Matoran. Besides, the amount of Toa power in an object has nothing to do with it. There is latent Toa power in the Matoran--the Toa stone just acts as the spark that lights the flame. More on topic, I don't get what you mean by "Become a Toa against their will." Yes to the first two questions, though, if the second one serves only to increase his power. Edited December 19, 2014 by ~T1S~ Quote ~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow ~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to NickonAquaMagna~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regitnui Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 Without doing something to trigger the transformation on their own. The Toa Metru took Toa Stones to the Suva Metru (or whatever it's called). The Inika hid in Toa Canisters, though that was just all-round weird. Quote Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mailli Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 It's a question of whether the body or the mind determines if Velika can become a toa.I'm going to say yes, as long as Velika (matoran ) was destined to become a toa, because Velika (great being) probably can't.It would depend on whether it's just "possession" Velika's body, or he shape-shifted into a matoran (the possession idea feels more likely). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishers64 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 And just to be clear, the reason why Velika isn't a GB in the Kingdom is because he became a Toa,Is that why we think he wasn't a GB in the Kingdom? Because he could have given up after his Prime Directive-mindset led the universe to destruction.It's been confirmed that Velika WAS a GB in that dimension. VelikaWas Velika in the Kingdom Alternate Universe also a Great Being?Yes Well, okay, fine, that might have something to do with it. But you have to keep in mind that even in the Kingdom AU, Velika wasn't a Toa before the universe went bleh. Main!Velika trusted the universe to Matoro (and that was a good decision), so there's no reason that Alternate!Velika wouldn't do the same. As for fixing the universe after the fact, there's only so much one GB can do without blowing his cover. At this point he is faced with the near-impossible task of lifting a water logged giant robot out of the sea and draining the water out of it, getting another Toa to sacrifice himself, and hoping that everything survived being damaged enough to still work. If Mata Nui's spirit is completely destroyed (you want to bet), he has to find a spirit that CAN power it or hope that he can train some other MUians to pilot the thing using the Glatorian panel. On the other hand...Let's just build a rocket and get out of here. Quote Hero Factory RPG | Bionicle Mafia XXIX: Storyline & Theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidhiki of the Shadows Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Of course The Kingdom Velika was a Great Being. Everything that happened before Matoro's attempt to revive Mata Nui, including the moment where Velika body-swapped into a Matoran body over 101,000 years prior, is exactly the same.It would be weird if there were other discrepancies as well, I agree, as it would make the notion of these alternate dimensions more complicated than they already are. -NotS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takhamavahu Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 There's no reason to think the Velika in that universe was not a Great Being. The timeline is exactly the same until somewhere along the 2006-2007 story. Velika's body was a matoran's so it was sunbject to everything biologically any other matoran was, including becoming a toa. Whether he'd want to, I don't know, but I think he was mostly going along with whatever happened. 3 Quote Flash Fire Adaptive Armour Where They All Are Tobduk Nikila Iron Wolf Artakha Adaptive Armour 2 Helryx Lariska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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