S&T#7: Memoirs -- Lhikan Poll

[bonesiii]

Welcome to voting for the seventh Storyline & Theories contest: Memoirs of the Dead! First, please vote in this poll before voting here. With that out of the way, make sure you read all entries in this category before voting. The voting will close on Thursday April 30, hopefully giving plenty of time to read the entries if you haven't already. [uPDATE: The administration has decided to reduce the amount of time for voting due to little activity since the initial voting. The new deadline is Thursday, March 5.] Note that not every category will have a winner; see the linked poll for details.

Entry #1 -- Protector by Colt McCoy & J. Mascioli

 

Entry #2 -- Legends of Lhii by Yio

Edited February 16, 2015 by bonesiii

[maxim21]

I bring this quite late, but Protector establish one of the (formerly unknown) Toa Mangai as a Toa of Fire. Since, it has been confirmed Lhikan was the only Toa Mangai of Fire. That seems like a problem to me, but I could be missing something.

[ALVIS]

I bear no ill will towards the writers of either entry, but I don't personally feel that Lhikan needs any more appearances in the official canon. Let the focus go to characters who didn't get quite so much time in the spotlight.

[bonesiii]

maxim, good point. We'll have to look into that. (Was it established and retconned? If not, it shouldn't be there, and this may be our fault as judges for missing it. Please feel free to vote for the entry if you like it better; this doesn't necessarily mean it'll be DQed if the fault is on us.)

[Boidoh]

Not only that, but the writer establishes the previously unknown Toa Mangai as having the Kakama.

 

I suggest just replacing every instance where it mentions him as a Toa of  Fire and change it to the Green, and Kakama changes to Mask of Healing.

 

Erm. It looks like that section needs to be either re-written, or removed completely...

Edited December 24, 2014 by Boidoh

[unknown456]

Just a minor point, but in the Legends of Lhii entry, it has Lhikan using Kanoka disks.  Lhikan wasn't a Toa until about 7,000 years ago.  According to BS01, Kanoka were created 4,000 years ago.  Although the exact wording on the BS01 page leaves it slightly ambiguous(the exact wording on the page is: "The technology used to develop Kanoka was first invented - around 4,000 years ago.(Emphasis mine), so there is some leeway there.

 

If this has already been discussed, then, um, woops...

Edited December 24, 2014 by unknown456

[Boidoh]

I was originally just going to not vote for either, but seeing Kraata-Kal in the second one made me vote for it.

[Exitium]

From what I can see, the entry was approved in May, while the other Toa Mangai's elements were officially established in November, so it's not really the fault of the author or the judges.  I think the entry should be evaluated on its own merits, and the paragraph in question can be reworked if it wins.

 

(For those who are wondering, this is a perfect example of why some people don't like these kinds of details canonized.  We authors write our stories in the gaps in the canon, and when those gaps are filled in this manner, it limits our creativity.  Whether or not you agree is up to your personal preferences, which is why I've stayed away from this debate, but seeing as it is directly affecting this contest, I think it's worth bringing up.  It might be worth establishing a moratorium on canonization at least until the contest is over.)

[fishers64]

A warning also that the entry Protectors was "completely redone" near the end of the judging process. I didn't get a chance to reread it between the redo and the polls, but bones had yet to read it, I thought...and you can add that to my list of incredibly dumb BZP errors.  

 

Of note is that establishing characters/masks/weapons that weren't previously established is also against the contest rules. 

[bonesiii]

Not only that, but the writer establishes the previously unknown Toa Mangai as having the Kakama.

Hm... This is looking more like judge slipping, for which I take responsibility. (But it was expected and part of why I took so long. A process to have edits will be still possible, and would happen anyways if Greg ever does read them and spot things, but it'll require specific approving of the new wording and it'll have to be much more minimal than before since large-scale edits that people don't have a chance to vote on would be unfair to the voters. Most likely the problematic details will simply be removed in favor of more ambiguity; if that doesn't cause a major problem to the story, it'll stand, but if it does, it'll probably have to be DQed.)

 

Just a minor point, but in the Legends of Lhii entry, it has Lhikan using Kanoka disks.  Lhikan wasn't a Toa until about 7,000 years ago.  According to BS01, Kanoka were created 4,000 years ago.  Although the exact wording on the BS01 page leaves it slightly ambiguous(the exact wording on the page is: "The technology used to develop Kanoka was first invented - around 4,000 years ago.(Emphasis mine), so there is some leeway there.

 

If this has already been discussed, then, um, woops...

Figures. I'll have to recheck, but if this is a part taking place earlier than 4000 years, that shouldn't be there. Please note that the BS01 wording only confirms that at 4000 years ago, Kanoka were definitely there; they may have been invented well before that. It's probably not a problem but the rules stated that potential problems were to be avoided.

 

From what I can see, the entry was approved in May, while the other Toa Mangai's elements were officially established in November, so it's not really the fault of the author or the judges.  I think the entry should be evaluated on its own merits, and the paragraph in question can be reworked if it wins.

Correct, but we still should have caught establishing of details that could be defined in canon later. Bound to happen with so much complexity, but yeah.

 

(For those who are wondering, this is a perfect example of why some people don't like these kinds of details canonized.  We authors write our stories in the gaps in the canon, and when those gaps are filled in this manner, it limits our creativity.  Whether or not you agree is up to your personal preferences, which is why I've stayed away from this debate, but seeing as it is directly affecting this contest, I think it's worth bringing up.  It might be worth establishing a moratorium on canonization at least until the contest is over.)

It shouldn't be an issue because of the rule against these stories defining those sorts of details. However, there is a real issue here, which is just that the more that gets defined, the harder it is for anybody to remember everything to avoid contradicting, or to spot everything that does. But that issue is there regardless of the timing of adding canon (and solved to an extent by Greg's rule that if he forgets something, go with the older answer unless it's brought up, re-examined, and the change is better so confirmed).