Are the set Protectors the same as the ones who buried Ekimu ?

[Iben]

This is something that has been bugging me for quite a while now.

 

First up, we know that Protectors pass their mask and title onto their sons. I believe it's safe to assume that this only happens when a Protector dies, or at least retires. So it's reasonable to assume that there might have been multiple generations of Protectors in the past.

 

Now, there's a slight "problem" in the Prophecy of Heroes video. We know that the set Protectors are the ones that send out the beacon to summon the Toa, and in that way they fulfilled the first part of the prophecy. Now, then the video says that the prophecy was whispered to the Protectors after they found him, and afterwards they buried him. Again, I find it reasonable to assume that after that they put the scriptures on the wall, given they were the ones to hear the prophecy.

 

Then we see a Protector of Fire speaking to his son about said prophecy. But then there's something strange. After discussing the summoning of the Toa, he mentions that the Toa have to find their Masks of Power, but then they have to "find the mask maker". Now, assuming that this mask-maker is Ekimu ( as the mask we get to see is the Mask of Creation ) and not Makuta, this is a bit weird. Because, why would he have to be found ? I mean, sure, I can understand that the Mask of Creation has to be found, but why the mask-maker ? If the Protectors are the ones who buried him in the first place, why would they have to find him ? Wouldn't they know where they buried him ? Wouldn't they have put him somewhere safe, so they all know where he is ?

 

My assumption is that the current Protectors are descendants of an older generation ( either the ones who buried Ekimu or their sons ; which could actually mean that the baby villager in this video and the one in the arrival video are two different villagers, the one of this video being the younger version of the current Protector of Fire), and that Ekimu is buried in the Ancient City. They might have not mentioned this to their sons, in order to keep him safe, who knows. But we do know that after the arrival of the LOSS, no-one could enter the city as he guarded the entrance to it. So I think it's reasonable to assume that the heroes will fight the LOSS in the first wave and be able to enter the city, trying to find Ekimu.

 

Now, what do you guys think of this ? Is there another explanation to the fact that the Toa have to find Ekimu ? Are the Protectors keeping information from us and the Toa ?

 

-Iben

[Regitnui]

If I may toss another fact onto the fire, the LoSS has abandoned its former post as the Guardian of the Temple. So the Protectors might have been able to get past it to 'bury' Ekimu, but now that it's gone rogue, it'll stop anyone from getting inside.

[bonesiii]

But the animation showed lookalikes to these Protectors hearing the "whispered prophecy" just after Ekimu fell.

 

Finding him could refer to finding a disembodied spirit that needs reconnected to his body. I found evidence (as stated in my Okoto Video Findings topic) that he might be such a spirit (and Makuta might be one too).

 

Or maybe they just mean the Toa need to find the body based on clues the Protectors will tell them, similar to finding the masks in 2001, even though the Turaga knew where those were (and I suspect the same thing for the masks is being done this time too). Rather than the Protectors themselves needing to find him.

[maxim21]

Then we see a Protector of Fire speaking to his son about said prophecy. But then there's something strange. After discussing the summoning of the Toa, he mentions that the Toa have to find their Masks of Power, but then they have to "find the mask maker". Now, assuming that this mask-maker is Ekimu ( as the mask we get to see is the Mask of Creation ) and not Makuta, this is a bit weird.

There's actually another strange thing in this passage that might be related. While the english version of the episode state they must "find the mask maker", the french version state they must "find the mask master". (The only other translated version i'm aware of is the german one, but I don't understand german)

 

I would usually say that it's a translation error, but in this case the french version make more sense to me: it could either mean the Toa will need to find someone that'll teach them to fully master their masks or be a reference to LoSS.

[Iben]

But the animation showed lookalikes to these Protectors hearing the "whispered prophecy" just after Ekimu fell.

 

Of course, but looking at the villagers, all of these guys are lookalikes. It could simply imply that on top of the mask, they also receive the extra armour/weapons that are connected with the role of Protector. This is kinda implied by the Comic-con presentation, as I remember them saying only the Protectors are capable of really fighting.

 

It's indeed a possible hypothesis that he and Makuta have a separate spirit form, but on the other hand, he simply could have said these things right before he lost consciousness.

 

I have to disagree on the fact that they are doing the same treasure hunt thing as the Turaga. The Turaga gave clues but stayed vague as the mask hunt was a real test for the Toa, while in the animations the Protectors lead the Toa to their masks. To me it seems that the Protectors are more desperate than the Turaga were, they seem to be in more imminent danger than the Turaga and the Matoran were. It feels like they really want Ekimu back, so why would they make it harder on the Toa to find him ?

 

@maxim21 : I wouldn't read too much into it, because some of the Dutch translations aren't entirely correct either (and they weren't always correct in the past either), so I'd trust the English version over the others.

 

-Iben

[ALVIS]

There's also the fact that certain media states that Ekimu's fall happened "a long time ago" or even "thousands of years ago". That would certainly seem to imply that the Protectors today aren't the same as the Protectors then.

 

Personally, I favor this interpretation. It's a lot better than G1 BIONICLE, in which almost all of the characters were around even in the "Time Before Time". Okoto's story has more of an epic, historical feel if the original events occurred so long ago that all of the witnesses are dead. We, as humans with a very finite lifespan, can better relate to this sort of setting.

 

The similarity between the Protectors of old and the Protectors of today can be obviously explained by animation convenience. One need only look to the villagers, who are all clones of the same basic template. In-story, perhaps the armor and weapons of the Protectors are passed down with the masks.

 

This also implies that the scene between the Protector of Fire and his son might not depict the current Protector telling the legend to his son -- it might depict his father telling him, or any other two Protectors in the lineage.

 

It's really quite refreshing (and headache-inducing) how open-ended the new story media is. It's certainly very different from old BIONICLE.

[bonesiii]

Of course, but looking at the villagers, all of these guys are lookalikes. It could simply imply that on top of the mask, they also receive the extra armour/weapons that are connected with the role of Protector.

Right, I meant the weapons. But it's certainly possible those get passed on too, yeah.

 

I have to disagree on the fact that they are doing the same treasure hunt thing as the Turaga. The Turaga gave clues but stayed vague as the mask hunt was a real test for the Toa, while in the animations the Protectors lead the Toa to their masks.

I wasn't saying they don't -- but they might lead with clues they give along the way and such. We haven't seen the journeys in detail yet (if we ever will), so I think that's still unclear. (Note that some of the 2001 media portrayed Turaga helping to find some of the masks, namely one card image of Whenua being present with Onua when he found one. That was a Noble, so in that case it made sense in Gen 1 for the elder to be there. This time it's obviously different but it does seem that the Protectors hid the masks and direct somehow or another the Toa to them.)

 

There's also the fact that certain media states that Ekimu's fall happened "a long time ago" or even "thousands of years ago". That would certainly seem to imply that the Protectors today aren't the same as the Protectors then.

 

Personally, I favor this interpretation. It's a lot better than G1 BIONICLE, in which almost all of the characters were around even in the "Time Before Time". Okoto's story has more of an epic, historical feel if the original events occurred so long ago that all of the witnesses are dead. We, as humans with a very finite lifespan, can better relate to this sort of setting.

 

I think for Gen 2 that can work. But I disagree with the idea that one or the other is better than the other. There's pros and cons to both; while we relate better to short lifespans, longer lifespans also feel more exotic and interesting/mysterious, obviously the feel they were going for in Gen1. I think the argument should be that Gen 2 arguably should (maybe) do it simply to have more variety in Bionicle interpretations.

 

But there is some evidence at least that this interpretation isn't the case here; if they're supposed to awaken Ekimu, he must have lived that long in some sense. And if Makuta is anything but a historical footnote, same dealio. It seems more like it's the same generation here. The fact that they go through generations says nothing about how long the lifespans are. Even Gen1 could have had generations if the time that the story passed was significantly longer than 100,000 years or whatever the lifespans were there (it never was pinned down). And on SM they did have them; we just didn't learn about events that passed before the current generation.

 

Now, maybe Ekimu and Makuta are extra-long-lived beings, or even immortal, and the others aren't, but we don't know that. The Toa have also been described as "timeless". This could be evidence that some beings don't age in Gen 2 but the normal villagers do. (That wording might also mean something poetic/mysterious unrelated to lifespans though.)

 

But one good reason not to go that route is then you get the Silmarillion effect, which I like, but is difficult for younger fans, in which you can't learn much about the past events without learning a whole new cast. If the current generations were still in essentially the same roles back then, it's easier to tell about that time, a major reason why it was a very good thing Gen 1 did it that way.

[Iben]

I have to disagree on the fact that they are doing the same treasure hunt thing as the Turaga. The Turaga gave clues but stayed vague as the mask hunt was a real test for the Toa, while in the animations the Protectors lead the Toa to their masks.

I wasn't saying they don't -- but they might lead with clues they give along the way and such. We haven't seen the journeys in detail yet (if we ever will), so I think that's still unclear. (Note that some of the 2001 media portrayed Turaga helping to find some of the masks, namely one card image of Whenua being present with Onua when he found one. That was a Noble, so in that case it made sense in Gen 1 for the elder to be there. This time it's obviously different but it does seem that the Protectors hid the masks and direct somehow or another the Toa to them.)

 

 

 

Actually, we did see them giving more than just clues, they're leading them directly to the locations of the mask. In the mobile game there are some stills from the upcoming animations as well ( also showing Lewa's jungle powers in the gameplay, which was something you mentioned in your topic IIRC ), and you can see the Protectors alongside the Toa when they reach the golden masks. Like here and here. (There are more, and more shots with them travelling alongside the Toa as well ) So it's a little more than giving them clues along the way, it's leading them towards these shrines.

 

To me it doesn't really seem that these Protectors hid the masks in those places, it actually seems more like they simply know where the masks are, but aren't able to reach them themselves or at least without the help of the Toa. I believe this to be one of the differences between Gen1 and Gen2; while the first mask hunt was more of a test for the Toa to see if they could prove that they're worthy and that they're able to work together, the Gen2 mask hunt seems to be more because they're more important to the defeat of the Skull spiders and the safety of the Okotians. Simply because the danger feels much more imminent than the Rahi attacks in Gen1. These guys are literally overrun by spiders everywhere, actively searching for the masks, while in Gen1 Makuta only had to keep the Matoran in fear so they wouldn't travel to Metru Nui.

 

-Iben

Edited January 1, 2015 by Iben

[ALVIS]

Now, maybe Ekimu and Makuta are extra-long-lived beings, or even immortal, and the others aren't, but we don't know that. The Toa have also been described as "timeless". This could be evidence that some beings don't age in Gen 2 but the normal villagers do. (That wording might also mean something poetic/mysterious unrelated to lifespans though.)

 

I think this is the most likely scenario. It's rather like traditional high fantasy: humans, goblins, etc. grow old and die at a quicker rate than elves, dwarves, dragons and their ilk.

 

Ekimu and Makuta are probably supernatural beings appointed to rule the mortal villagers. Ekimu's "spirit" whispering the Prophecy of Heroes, and Makuta's spirit (presumably) manipulating the Skull Spiders are both examples of their magical nature.

[Ektris]

I would really like to believe that they aren't. The weapons could very easily be passed along with the mask and title.

 

But instead, everyone's probably just going to have ridiculously long lifespans again...

 

~|ET|~

[Banana Gunz]

Ye, I predict the Protectors were driven out of their ancient city, which is where they buried Ekimu. It has now become lost in legend and is guarded by LOSS, so the toa have to rediscover it/reclaim it and defeat LOSS to get to Ekimu.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

This is a good observation actually. It's difficult to tell so far, and there is no clarification right now either. I'd guess until we have it cleared-up, it's safe to say they are supposed to be the same Protectors.

 

-NotS

[bonesiii]

Actually, we did see them giving more than just clues, they're leading them directly to the locations of the mask

Did you read what I wrote that you quoted?

 

I wasn't saying they don't -- but they might lead with clues they give along the way and such. We haven't seen the journeys in detail yet (if we ever will), so I think that's still unclear.

 

So it's a little more than giving them clues along the way, it's leading them towards these shrines.

I agree this is the most likely theory, but you're jumping the gun on phrasing it as if it were certain. And this is really missing my original point, which you seemed to think you were disagreeing (you used that word, anyways) with by suggesting they lead them there -- my point was that they help the Toa find the masks, and since the Toa didn't know where they were previously, it doesn't matter how they do so. It's still "finding" from the Toa's perspective. The point was, the Protectors can know where the masks are, and yet they can still be found. Basically, you clearly misread this paragraph:

 

Or maybe they just mean the Toa need to find the body based on clues the Protectors will tell them, similar to finding the masks in 2001, even though the Turaga knew where those were (and I suspect the same thing for the masks is being done this time too). Rather than the Protectors themselves needing to find him.

I wasn't focusing on the method of getting them there, but whose perspective "finding" is from. "Same thing" was poor wording, that probably got you confused... but was also meant to be read in context to "similar" and that you know that I know the Protectors lead them there rather than staying in the Koro.

 

But that said, again, we don't know the full extent of how that leading will work. Given their portrayal as mentor types, it's quite possible they ask the Toa to learn things necessary to getting there rather than spoonfeeding them everything. This could take a lot of forms, including perhaps callbacks to the old hints thing from 2001.

 

I'd guess until we have it cleared-up, it's safe to say they are supposed to be the same Protectors.

That's not safe either. Folks! Listen up! I'm sure I'll need to say this a lot in coming years... but might as well say it now too. It's the age old advice for storyline theories. Don't treat them as fact... until and unless they become fact. Safe assumptions have a way of getting overturned.