New!Bionicle: How Organic Are They?

[Lewa0111 Nuva]

If I'm remembering correctly, the MU inhabitants in the Old!Bionicle were stated by Greg to be 85% mechanical and 15% organic, while the inhabitants of Bara Magna were the reverse. This had a lot of implications for how BM inhabitants could eat, sleep, drink, et cetera. The latest videos for New!Bionicle, however, have me thinking that the Protectors and villagers on Okoto might be more toward the BM side of things than the MU side.

 

Other than the stuff that could be chalked up to '01-era weirdness (fishing, "clothing," etc), Baby Fire Villager is explicitly called "Son" by "Not-Vakama." This might be a figure of speech, granted, but it's still a term that was to my knowledge never used before in the old storyline. Same thing with the term "ancestors" when referring to the Protectors who found Ekimu originally. Might this indicate that families, relatives, etc. do exist on Okoto, and by extension, the Okoto inhabitants are much more organic than their MU counterparts? I doubt we'll get a definitive answer anytime soon, but it's fun to think about at least!

 

Lewa0111 Nuva

[UngluedBike]

No pesticides. 

 

I don't think we've really had any concrete word about this yet.

Edited January 2, 2015 by UngluedBike

[The 1st Shadow]

From what we've seen, I think it's generally accepted that they are mainly organic, if not fully. I imagine that this time around, the characters are purely organic and wearing armor over top.

 

This notion has brought up some questions concerning the Toa--specifically, how they survived their fall from... wherever it is they came from. To fall from space and crash-land into the land without any visible means of transport should have killed them. To counter this, I have two theories. 

 

The first deals with a sort of cocoon--The Toa could have been in some sort of organic or rock-like shell that kept them safe and then dissolved or crumbled around them upon impact, but cushioning their fall.

 

The second theory takes inspirations from the Bifrost in Thor. It seems to work as a cannon that fires the characters from planet to planet, and retracts them when they're done. Obviously, if you were shot through space towards another planet, you'd die. I imagine, then, that the Toa are like the Asgardians--stronger and more enduring than humans, and could have survived such an event. The shot in the animations of them falling towards the island bears a bit of resemblance to the effects used in the MCU Thor movies.

 

There is a third option: The Toa are something else entirely and being organic has nothing to do with them. But, that idea's no fun, so I'll stick with my first two for now.

 

But, back to the original question, yes. They do seem to be more like the Agori and Glatorian, in that they are mainly organic and can reproduce the way humans do, if the father/son thing is any indication.

[Mjolnitor]

Why not reproducing robotic lifeform?

[The 1st Shadow]

Why not reproducing robotic lifeform?

While a cool concept, it might be a bit more difficult to explain to the target audience. Not ruling it out, but just saying it's not as likely.

[Mjolnitor]

 

Why not reproducing robotic lifeform?

While a cool concept, it might be a bit more difficult to explain to the target audience. Not ruling it out, but just saying it's not as likely.

 

What difficulties? "They're like us, just made of metal". Problem solved.

[Doctor Makuta]

 

 

Why not reproducing robotic lifeform?

While a cool concept, it might be a bit more difficult to explain to the target audience. Not ruling it out, but just saying it's not as likely.

 

What difficulties? "They're like us, just made of metal". Problem solved.

 

Do you mean a metal based life form?

 

Also what if they have more touch bone structures or something that explained how they survived the fall?

Edited January 2, 2015 by Doctor Makuta

[Sergei Rahkmaninoff]

'Son' was used in the old storyline in MoL, in referring to the Rahkshi as 'sons of Makuta.' That was used much less figuratively than 'brother,' was, though.

 

I think having a small protector (referred to as 'son') implies at the very least that upon coming into existence protectors are not full-size, and grow over time. This points to them being organic, but it doesn't prove it. It could just as well be that they are robotic and are rebuilt as normal Protectors, similar to the 03 Matoran, after a set period of time has passed or the adult protectors feel the child is ready, sort of thing. I'm going to guess that they're organic, however. The new story seems to be intended to be as open to newcomers as possible, without any specialized terms aside from Okoto and Toa, so it makes sense that the Toa and Protectors won't have a very alien biology.

[Vartemp]

It's too early to know. As for the "son" thing, it could be a figure of speech, just like how Rahkshi are referred to as "Sons of Makuta", since Teridax created them.

[Regitnui]

The Kraata/Rahkshi are actually the closest thing to a biological 'son of makuta' as you can get, and in fact are probably the nearest thing you coulld get to biological reproduction in Gen1. Yes, that is kinda Squick when you think about it.

 

Why not reproducing robotic lifeform?

An evolved/natural Von Neumann machine? Possible, if a little too complex for children (and a few adults:P) to grasp without explaining. Though let's use Occam's Razor here; if the Mask Makers could make masks containing elements, surely the Protectors or villagers could create weapons, and the Makers themselves linking the Blasters to the Masks.

[Bedrock1]

I think the protectors/villagers look 50/50 or maybe 60/40, to the mechanical side, my #1 reason for this is that armour piece with the pistons on it. A mostly organic being would have no need for external pistons and that head also looks very mechanical. They probably are more like insects or makuta, a hard (in this case, metal) exoskeleton protecting the gooey bits inside.

The toa however, have a lot more piston bits and have that chestpiece with many very mechanical items present, such as cooling vents. Most fan theories about the whole "timeless heroes" deal is that these are the same toa from Gen1, just transported to a different time to help out, "time trap" style. They look quite different to their Gen1 counterparts though, especially Potato and Onua, so it's not unreasonable to assume that their biology might also have changed. Also, lewa is now of the green and air, so go figure.

[The Meta Knight]

As for the biological reproduction thing, all should bare in mind that on the Protectors bios on the Bionicle website it does say they passed their masks and the Prophecy of Heroes "from father to son" and even says somewhere (I can't remember exactly where) "throughout the generations." Unless someone can think of a better explanation, (a realistic one (by realistic, I mean one that Lego would actually go with)) I think it's safe to assume the Protectors biologically reproduce.

 

They look quite different to their Gen1 counterparts though, especially Potato and Onua,

 

Heheh... Potato-Master of Stone...

[Sergei Rahkmaninoff]

They look quite different to their Gen1 counterparts though, especially Potato and Onua,

 

Heheh... Potato-Master of Stone...

 

He can team up with Onya.

[The 1st Shadow]

 

 

Why not reproducing robotic lifeform?

While a cool concept, it might be a bit more difficult to explain to the target audience. Not ruling it out, but just saying it's not as likely.

 

What difficulties? "They're like us, just made of metal". Problem solved.

 

And when the kids ask how that works? Parents and pretty much every biology professor will likely be at a loss for words to explain how it's possible.

 

Look at the Disney movie 'Robots.' In it, babies are build from a kit, and upgraded as they reach a certain age. If that's what you're talking about, then it's not "like us" at all.

[Mjolnitor]

And when the kids ask how that works? Parents and pretty much every biology professor will likely be at a loss for words to explain how it's possible.

 

Do these kids ask how magic works when they're told a fairy tale?

Not everything needs explanation.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Mjolnitor

[The 1st Shadow]

 

And when the kids ask how that works? Parents and pretty much every biology professor will likely be at a loss for words to explain how it's possible.

 

Do these kids ask how magic works when they're told a fairy tale?

 

A good point, but suspension of disbelief can only go so far in any story. There comes a point where "magic" is just lazy writing. And you're talking something more sci-fi, in which case, even magic would have to have a lot of explanation.

[Mjolnitor]

 

 And you're talking something more sci-fi, in which case, even magic would have to have a lot of explanation.

 

Who says G2 is sci-fi?

Robot-like lifeforms =/= sci-fi.

[Evergrey: Toa of Music]

 

And when the kids ask how that works? Parents and pretty much every biology professor will likely be at a loss for words to explain how it's possible.

 

Do these kids ask how magic works when they're told a fairy tale?

Not everything needs explanation.

 

 

Depends on the kid. Some do and some don't.

 

As for the topic, there's no way anything is fully organic because of the head pieces. I'd say that they are like the Agori/Glatorian. I'd say 70% organic and 30% robotic just to have nice round numbers. I don't own the sets yet, but just looking at the details of the headpieces, the chest plates and just how the overall aesthetic of the characters are, having 30% mechanical sounds about right.

[Lyichir]

Presumably organic enough to reproduce, seeing as that's the main difference between the Protectors and villagers of the new theme and the Matoran from the old theme.

 

Other than that? I honestly don't know and don't care. I always felt that many of the explanations of the exact nature of the old Bionicle canon were wildly contradictory—they presumably had organic muscle and tissue but the set depictions of the characters (which were pretty much universally considered canon) clearly didn't have any such things in many cases. It's far easier to leave things like that open to interpretation—there's no need to ground everything in science or pseudoscience to tell a compelling story.

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Why even say they're partially mechanical? They could be fully organic. Their "armor" might not even be real armor; it could just be a thick, chitinous carapace which develops around their body and begins to hardens with age.

 

Never assume a boring answer to be accurate until proven as such.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Quisoves Potoo]

The new pieces we've gotten, combined with the Toa's breastplate decals (not to mention the POE's Gatling-gun-chest,) suggest that the Toa and Protectors are at least what are traditionally classified as cyborgs. The villagers' apparent ability to reproduce suggests that they aren't as mechanical as their GEN1 counterparts, but how large the difference is, I cannot say.

 

My personal suspicion is that the Skull Spiders are among the prototypes for the Villagers, made from cadaver bits of GEN2's equivalent of Spherus Magnans. But, in lieu of more specific evidence, this is mere unsubstantiated guessing on my part.

[Xarok]

I don't think "son" is literal, I imagine it's intended the same way the Toa refer to each other as brother and sister. I won't rule out the idea of these characters being more organic, based off the figures they seem to be more organic with armor attached but we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

[Evergrey: Toa of Music]

Son may be literal as the new generation has an emphasis on time and generations and passing the mask down generations and etc. It's definitely too early to say much else, but I stand by the 30% organic.

[Xarok]

Hmm, I like that idea of father and son being an actual thing, it'd be cool to see actual families in the Bionicle Universe.

[UnderscoreChronix]

Surprisingly they haven't even stated that they're Bio-Mechanical for the new fans yet.

As for how the Toa survived the fall, I imagine they were shielded by elemental energy fields which disappeared when the Toa hit the ground. 

Which reminds me...

 

I wonder where the Toa came from?

[Aanchir]

I think the protectors/villagers look 50/50 or maybe 60/40, to the mechanical side, my #1 reason for this is that armour piece with the pistons on it. A mostly organic being would have no need for external pistons and that head also looks very mechanical.

Keep in mind that the Glatorian and Agori were supposed to be 85% organic. And Greg Farshtey only conceded that mechanical 15% when it was pointed out to him that some of the Glatorian and Agori sets DID have lots of external pistons on their torsos, arms, and legs. Originally, he said they were 100% organic with armor, but when that was pointed out to him decided that they were organic with mechanical implants.

[Sharnak the Bohrok Lord]

Eh, I see them as 100% mechanical until proven otherwise.

 

As for the reproduction argument, this is a fantasy world were heroes fall from the sky, giant spiders leap onto your face, and masks grant you magical powers. In a fictional world, robots reproducing is a possibility. It could also be an aspect of the story that you're not supposed to think about.

[Akavakaku]

Maybe Son is just the name of a very short Fire villager.

[Latrodectus]

I'm very glad if they actually have reproduction and generations. The agelessness of Gen 1 Bionicle felt really odd; everyone was living for countless years yet somehow many characters still acted like inexperienced children. Adding family ties also creates some new story opportunities, since you can have things like father-son connections that weren't possible in Gen 1. 

[The 1st Shadow]

The new pieces we've gotten, combined with the Toa's breastplate decals (not to mention the POE's Gatling-gun-chest,) suggest that the Toa and Protectors are at least what are traditionally classified as cyborgs. The villagers' apparent ability to reproduce suggests that they aren't as mechanical as their GEN1 counterparts, but how large the difference is, I cannot say.

 

Actually, having just bought Pohatu for myself and Kopaka for my brother, looking at the decals, it looks like the "mechanical" bits might be more of gaps in the armor, exposing something like chain mail or something like thin-fabric athletic-wear. 

The PoE's gattling gun may be attached to a harness that fits over his torso, but for design purposes, the set designers built it straight into his torso.

[Pomegranate]

Some things don't need to be figured out; the obsession with reproduction in this discussion concerns me greatly. It's one of those things with unfortunate implications that don't need to be spelled out, like Pokemon eggs. They're franchises for children and we shouldn't be so worried about the nitty gritty of organic percentages and reproductive processes and such, and we definitely shouldn't see a failure to explain those as some kind of misstep by the story team - that's not what Bionicle is about and it's really not their priority in rebooting it.

 

In any case, we have absolutely no official word on what's going on underneath that armor, and picking apart semantics isn't gonna get us very far. I'm currently going with the assumption that it's just like the old Bionicle: mostly mechanical, organic as the storytelling requires (lungs and muscles make a lot of very useful and descriptive actions possible, such as gasping, getting fatigued, etc.)

Edited January 3, 2015 by Pomegranate

[The 1st Shadow]

Some things don't need to be figured out; the obsession with reproduction in this discussion concerns me greatly. It's one of those things with unfortunate implications that don't need to be spelled out, like Pokemon eggs. They're franchises for children and we shouldn't be so worried about the nitty gritty of organic percentages and reproductive processes and such, and we definitely shouldn't see a failure to explain those as some kind of misstep by the story team - that's not what Bionicle is about and it's really not their priority in rebooting it.

 

In any case, we have absolutely no official word on what's going on underneath that armor, and picking apart semantics isn't gonna get us very far. I'm currently going with the assumption that it's just like the old Bionicle: mostly mechanical, organic as the storytelling requires (lungs and muscles make a lot of very useful and descriptive actions possible, such as gasping, getting fatigued, etc.)

Perhaps you missed the animations? In them, we were given what is obviously a young child of a Protector, who calls the former "son." This implies a literal family relationship, unlike what we saw in G1, where most family terms were used symbolically.

The discussion exists because LEGO gave us the aforementioned material to work with, which is more than anything we had back in G1. Baby Fire Villager has to come from somewhere, so their reproductive natures is naturally going to be the first thing on our list. Also, it does contribute some to the general make-up of their bodies.

[Latrodectus]

Some things don't need to be figured out; the obsession with reproduction in this discussion concerns me greatly. It's one of those things with unfortunate implications that don't need to be spelled out, like Pokemon eggs. They're franchises for children and we shouldn't be so worried about the nitty gritty of organic percentages and reproductive processes and such, and we definitely shouldn't see a failure to explain those as some kind of misstep by the story team - that's not what Bionicle is about and it's really not their priority in rebooting it.

I'm not really concerned with how reproduction is performed; it can be anything from creating new Protectors in a factory to the birds and the bees.

 

But it really makes the world more interesting when characters are actually able to have ancestors, descendants, family lines, etc. Things become more dynamic. It also gets rid of the need for weird plot devices like the Red Star to explain how the world can function.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Latrodectus

[The 1st Shadow]

 

I think the protectors/villagers look 50/50 or maybe 60/40, to the mechanical side, my #1 reason for this is that armour piece with the pistons on it. A mostly organic being would have no need for external pistons and that head also looks very mechanical.

Keep in mind that the Glatorian and Agori were supposed to be 85% organic. And Greg Farshtey only conceded that mechanical 15% when it was pointed out to him that some of the Glatorian and Agori sets DID have lots of external pistons on their torsos, arms, and legs. Originally, he said they were 100% organic with armor, but when that was pointed out to him decided that they were organic with mechanical implants.

 

Agreed with what Aanchir said, but I have some thoughts on your comment, Bedrock.

 

Why would an organic being need pistons?

I don't know. Why don't you ask the guy in the picture above? See that gearbag on his back? Looks pretty heavy. Good thing he has that nifty artificial exo-skeleton to help bear the load.

 

How does that apply to the Toa? Well, if they are mostly organic, and are just wearing armor, I imagine that running or fighting in it for extended periods of time could get get a bit tiring. If only there was some special feature built into the armor to help support itself... Oh, wait! There is!

 

As for the faces... Well, the Glatorian were mostly organic, and their heads looked like Iron Man. :shrug: Just like in G1, I suspect these sets bear only partial resemblance to their in-story counterparts.

Edited January 3, 2015 by ~T1S~

[Lewa0111 Nuva]

Wow, great thoughts on both sides, everyone! The point about the pistons for supporting weight is especially interesting. Not something I ever considered before, but pretty cool!

 

One thing nobody really brought up yet: what about eating? That was always a big part of Old!Bionicle that bothered me. Less story potential when nobody ever needs to worry about starving, cooking food, hunting, etc. Voya Nui was especially weird in that regard because the lack of drinkable water was a plot point, yet...nobody drinks water? Was this ever explained?

 

I'm definitely leaning more toward New!Bionicle being Bara Magna-esque in terms of the inhabitants' biology. Mostly organic with mechanical implants and armor.

 

Lewa0111 Nuva

[bonesiii]

Personally, I'm kind of hoping this time "robots on a tropical island" will be literal. I know some fans from 2001 who heard it wasn't found that odd. We've had a biomechanical mixture, we've had naturally organic with added armor/implants, now let's try something "new" but also original (in terms of what people assumed in 2001).

 

But I won't really mind whatever it is.

[The 1st Shadow]

Personally, I'm kind of hoping this time "robots on a tropical island" will be literal. I know some fans from 2001 who heard it wasn't found that odd. We've had a biomechanical mixture, we've had naturally organic with added armor/implants, now let's try something "new" but also original (in terms of what people assumed in 2001).

 

But I won't really mind whatever it is.

Eh, I'm not too sure about a "robots on an island" thing. If they are artificial lifeforms, then it begs the question of who made them, and later put them there. Also, this would mean that they'd need to have enough resources to build their own "young" as generations passed. Making them into robots has the potential to become just like G1 or the Transformers movies (living robots with distant creators) and is asking to add a lot to the story right from the get-go.

 

Personally, I'd be more than okay with that, as I can see that it has potential to keep the story going. But, can they do it well enough that it can be set apart from G1? However, for the sake of variety, I'd like to see them do a story that focuses on organic beings with a different set of rules than we had before, just to see if they pull it off well enough (which I expect they can.)

[bonesiii]

Eh, I'm not too sure about a "robots on an island" thing. If they are artificial lifeforms, then it begs the question of who made them, and later put them there.

In 2001 people had no trouble believing that was the Great Beings.

 

I suspect this only seems difficult in retrospect due to the giant robot origin making a lot of sense. But in order to cleverly hide that twist, they also had to make the alternative make sense too -- that some mysterious creative beings wanted to make robotic beings (or as we later found out, biomechanical), simply to be (or perhaps for mysterious purposes that could go in any number of ways).

[The 1st Shadow]

 

Eh, I'm not too sure about a "robots on an island" thing. If they are artificial lifeforms, then it begs the question of who made them, and later put them there.

In 2001 people had no trouble believing that was the Great Beings.

 

I suspect this only seems difficult in retrospect due to the giant robot origin making a lot of sense. But in order to cleverly hide that twist, they also had to make the alternative make sense too -- that some mysterious creative beings wanted to make robotic beings (or as we later found out, biomechanical), simply to be (or perhaps for mysterious purposes that could go in any number of ways).

 

Exactly. G1 GAVE us the notion of the Great Beings right away.

[bonesiii]

Right away? I forget, but 2015 has only just started, and the timing of reveals in 2015 need not follow the same schedule as 2001. I remember several important details not being given until one of the later two comics, actually.