Humans are canon in Bionicle 2015

SailorQuaoar · January 13, 2015

I came across this post showing a picture of the new Gali comic.

http://kallernuva.tumblr.com/post/107936376707/humans-are-canon-in-the-comics

That sunken statue is clearly depicting a human, so humans must have been on Okoto at some point.

But what do you think happened to them? Did they die out before the Prortectors arrived on the island? Or did they rebuild themselves into mechanical bodies and become the Protectors?

Greg had previously said that humans would never be in Bionicle so this is a shocking development.

fishers64 · January 13, 2015

I don't think that comic is official.

Mjolnitor · January 13, 2015

That's another horror story of artistic license.

The 1st Shadow · January 13, 2015

Like fishers said, it may not be canon.

It could be artistic license.

Or, it could be confirmation that the Protectors/Toa are mostly organic under their armor, and that was a statue of one without. Personally, I hope for this one.

Latrodectus · January 13, 2015

Not the first human effigy to appear in Bionicle; there's one on the left of Vakama's hut in MNOG.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Latrodectus

**bonesiii** · January 13, 2015

Interesting...

FTR, Greg's statement about humans in Bionicle was clearly about the Gen 1 universe. It's irrelevant to Gen 2 unless the new story team says the same thing for it.

Assuming this is canon (I have no idea), there's also the chance that it represents an alien species that simply resembles humans, in some relation similar to the Agori/Glatorian/GBs/etc. Or... if the Okoto denizens are organic as some have theorized... this may be what you'd see beneath the mask if not in a strictly set-style portrayal??

Or maybe it's a fan prank. >__>

**Pomegranate** · January 13, 2015

There are enough inconsistencies in the comic to what we know of Okoto so far for me to say with confidence that it's nothing more than artistic license. Every page has evidence that the artist was either working with very outdated or insufficient references, or just didn't care. I doubt it's canonical; in fact, I have a feeling that the ways that the Toa get their golden masks is going to be depicted slightly differently in this comic, in the short comics in their instruction booklets, and in the animations. We have no clue what's really "official" and what isn't yet, but this comic is more likely than not an outlier adn should not be counted.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Pomegranate

Rooster Nui · January 13, 2015

I'm going to consider this as non-canon for the moment, but It'd be pretty cool to learn that a species similar to humans, or even humans themselves once existed in this new universe.

MrSciFiGuy · January 13, 2015

I hope its non-canon. Doesn't look like a current style, but we'll see in time. Until then, its artistic license to me

**Dorek** · January 13, 2015

This is what I severely dislike about Gen 1 influencing the way we think. Regardless of the "canonicity" status of the comic, an artist can't even include a stylistic touch (like some cool piece of rubble) without the automatic assumption that "humans are in BIONICLE!"

Perhaps it was a statue depicting what they see as a bizarre and fantastical species, much as ancient humans created statues depicting clearly non-human entities. Our Anubis is their Human.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Dorek

**dviddy** · January 13, 2015

This is what I severely dislike about Gen 1 influencing the way we think. Regardless of the "canonicity" status of the comic, an artist can't even include a stylistic touch (like some cool piece of rubble) without the automatic assumption that "humans are in BIONICLE!"

I think this cuts to the heart of a lot of problems in all the "canonicity" debates. Stories told through various medias often have differing details, and they are often "all canon" because few fanbases are as oddly obsessed with every detail having an official place and role. Is the statue canon? Is it non-canon? Does it matter?

I sincerely hope the new story team doesn't think of G2 in the same way we do G1. :/

**Dorek** · January 13, 2015

Stories told through various medias often have differing details, and they are often "all canon" because few fanbases are as oddly obsessed with every detail having an official place and role.

Poor Jaller's been an amputee since 2007

Regitnui · January 13, 2015

Stories told through various medias often have differing details, and they are often "all canon" because few fanbases are as oddly obsessed with every detail having an official place and role.
Poor Jaller's been an amputee since 2007

Say what now?

**Ballom Nom Nom** · January 13, 2015

Stories told through various medias often have differing details, and they are often "all canon" because few fanbases are as oddly obsessed with every detail having an official place and role.
Poor Jaller's been an amputee since 2007

I thought it was Hewkii who tragically lost a hand, not Jaller. Unless you're thinking of something else, and two of the Mahri were so unfortunately affected.

~B~

aldero · January 13, 2015

I don't consider this comic to be much in the story. A mere statue would not mean connection to the human world.

Kinda similar to Naboo in the Star Wars universe - Buddha statues in the fields does not mean that Star Wars takes place in our universe.

dotcom · January 13, 2015

Stories told through various medias often have differing details, and they are often "all canon" because few fanbases are as oddly obsessed with every detail having an official place and role.
Poor Jaller's been an amputee since 2007
I thought it was Hewkii who tragically lost a hand, not Jaller. Unless you're thinking of something else, and two of the Mahri were so unfortunately affected.

~B~

I think they might mean that the art style in the 2007 comics sometimes resulted in a few missing extremities.

Munty · January 13, 2015

This is what I severely dislike about Gen 1 influencing the way we think. Regardless of the "canonicity" status of the comic, an artist can't even include a stylistic touch (like some cool piece of rubble) without the automatic assumption that "humans are in BIONICLE!"

I think this cuts to the heart of a lot of problems in all the "canonicity" debates. Stories told through various medias often have differing details, and they are often "all canon" because few fanbases are as oddly obsessed with every detail having an official place and role. Is the statue canon? Is it non-canon? Does it matter?
I sincerely hope the new story team doesn't think of G2 in the same way we do G1. :/

I disagree with both of these assertions, and I do so as a fan with a great dislike for rampant canonisation. I don't think it's necessary to give huge amounts of backstory to all 15 Rahi that can be created from the Master Builder Set as we can simply accept that they all exist somewhere on Mata Nui and move on. Something like the appearance of a human face in official artwork (if this is official, I'm not jumping to any conclusions!) is in my opinion extremely significant to fans and canon. As others have mentioned, this could just be appalling artistic license from an artist who clearly didn't think about what he was drawing and probably doesn't understand or care about the franchise. Alternatively though, this could be a highly competent artist with a deep knowledge of the source material sowing a small seed of what's to come for eagle-eyed fans to spot...

Personally I'm not convinced this is going to be official, or perhaps it is but will be an early piece of concept art which will contribute nothing to either the story or it's canon. I'm interested in where this comic came from though as we recently saw some scans that Toa Chronix found for our Facebook group. They came from a Bionicle booklet/minimag that he received along with his Lego club magazine and the whole piece is embarrassingly bad. A picture of Kopaka's set shows him mirrored so his weapons and mask are reversed. Gali seems to be wearing a protector mask in the artwork instead of the Kaukau. And the depiction of the PoS mask differs vastly in 2 adjacent panels of the same comic. It could just be that Bionicle has got poor artists this time round. Let's hope that's not the case...

Vraiment · January 13, 2015

It kind of reminds me that in the comics the Keystones were pieces of a stone tablet but that wasn't their official form. Same here, that might be not official.

Munty · January 13, 2015

It seems pretty significant though doesn't it. In the past, when we saw statues that were representative of the matoran or toa, they were identical to the set forms. Remember the po-koro heads? Of course, as is being discussed elsewhere, this comic seems to be an early piece that is not part of the final material. So unless we see a similar image in the final art style, we can pretty much ignore this one and discount the theory being discussed here!

Aanchir · January 13, 2015

I think it's a mistake to assume these comics are "canon", especially when they depict so many things so differently than the other media we've seen.

Besides, some folks on Eurobricks have pointed out that some of the characters' poses are possibly traced from other comics, so it's entirely possible the ruins were traced from reference photos. Not a lot of reference photos to draw from with ancient statues of robotic characters... so human ones would have to do.

**bonesiii** · January 13, 2015

It seems pretty significant though doesn't it. In the past, when we saw statues that were representative of the matoran or toa, they were identical to the set forms. Remember the po-koro heads? Of course, as is being discussed elsewhere, this comic seems to be an early piece that is not part of the final material. So unless we see a similar image in the final art style, we can pretty much ignore this one and discount the theory being discussed here!

Well, just because MNOG showed Matoran head statues in set style doesn't mean all media for all time must do so. And the movies, at least the early two, had styles often deviating from the sets a bit.

Let's keep in mind, though, that LEGO has already published several other concept-art images for Gen 2 (for Ekimu and the Toa). This could just be more of that. :shrugs:

**Dorek** · January 13, 2015

Stories told through various medias often have differing details, and they are often "all canon" because few fanbases are as oddly obsessed with every detail having an official place and role.
Poor Jaller's been an amputee since 2007

I thought it was Hewkii who tragically lost a hand, not Jaller. Unless you're thinking of something else, and two of the Mahri were so unfortunately affected.

~B~

Well, there's this cover picture where he's missing a hand, and one more obvious one at some point in the beginning of comic 7, I believe, but yeah, that whole year was a whirlwind of missing limbs and parts =P. I still like Sayger's style, though.

This is what I severely dislike about Gen 1 influencing the way we think. Regardless of the "canonicity" status of the comic, an artist can't even include a stylistic touch (like some cool piece of rubble) without the automatic assumption that "humans are in BIONICLE!"
I think this cuts to the heart of a lot of problems in all the "canonicity" debates. Stories told through various medias often have differing details, and they are often "all canon" because few fanbases are as oddly obsessed with every detail having an official place and role. Is the statue canon? Is it non-canon? Does it matter?
I sincerely hope the new story team doesn't think of G2 in the same way we do G1. :/

I disagree with both of these assertions, and I do so as a fan with a great dislike for rampant canonisation. I don't think it's necessary to give huge amounts of backstory to all 15 Rahi that can be created from the Master Builder Set as we can simply accept that they all exist somewhere on Mata Nui and move on. Something like the appearance of a human face in official artwork (if this is official, I'm not jumping to any conclusions!) is in my opinion extremely significant to fans and canon. As others have mentioned, this could just be appalling artistic license from an artist who clearly didn't think about what he was drawing and probably doesn't understand or care about the franchise. Alternatively though, this could be a highly competent artist with a deep knowledge of the source material sowing a small seed of what's to come for eagle-eyed fans to spot...

It's the two extremes of "everything must be canon" and "this is non-canon, therefore the artist is a bad person" that I take the most issue with. Artists, especially freelance artists, are given a set of parameters to work with, and do their work within those confines. Perhaps the brief said "include statues of an ancient species" and that species ended up being "human", or perhaps there were no specific descriptors and it ended up being a completely random detail. It's Gen 1 that has taught us to be so obsessive about details that an average reader would shrug off or otherwise understand as a stylistic touch.

Of course, maybe it is a hint of things to come, but there are more possibilities than just "future plot point" and "something to disregard and dislike because it is non-canon".

Personally I'm not convinced this is going to be official, or perhaps it is but will be an early piece of concept art which will contribute nothing to either the story or it's canon. I'm interested in where this comic came from though as we recently saw some scans that Toa Chronix found for our Facebook group. They came from a Bionicle booklet/minimag that he received along with his Lego club magazine and the whole piece is embarrassingly bad. A picture of Kopaka's set shows him mirrored so his weapons and mask are reversed. Gali seems to be wearing a protector mask in the artwork instead of the Kaukau. And the depiction of the PoS mask differs vastly in 2 adjacent panels of the same comic. It could just be that Bionicle has got poor artists this time round. Let's hope that's not the case...

They actually came from a UK-exclusive comic that was included with the magazines, so that's why we haven't necessarily seen it yet.

And again, it's that definition of "official" that's this annoying holdover from Gen 1. Why does it have to be "official" to be a part of the BIONICLE franchise? The animations and comics we've received so far have shown multiple different iterations of the Toa acquiring their Golden Masks. Thus far, there is no "canon" depiction because there are too many to choose from. It's very probable that the actual main series animations will include ANOTHER depiction of how the Toa get these masks. The animators don't feel as shackled by the idea of drawing the exact same take just to please some weirdly canon-obsessed portion of the fanbase, they know that their viewers will simply take it in stride that the events are what's important, not the minor detail changes.

Munty · January 13, 2015

And again, it's that definition of "official" that's this annoying holdover from Gen 1. Why does it have to be "official" to be a part of the BIONICLE franchise? The animations and comics we've received so far have shown multiple different iterations of the Toa acquiring their Golden Masks. Thus far, there is no "canon" depiction because there are too many to choose from. It's very probable that the actual main series animations will include ANOTHER depiction of how the Toa get these masks. The animators don't feel as shackled by the idea of drawing the exact same take just to please some weirdly canon-obsessed portion of the fanbase, they know that their viewers will simply take it in stride that the events are what's important, not the minor detail changes.

Not entirely sure how the definition of 'official' can be questioned, although I DO see your point regarding the acquiring of the Golden masks. I guess if I was to try and explain it the way I understand things; Official would mean final media produced by Lego and released to the general public. This rules out the image in question as it seems highly unlikely it's final as discussed both in this thread and others. Canon would mean the unquestionable facts that exist within this official media. For example, you mention the multiple depictions of the Toa recovering the golden masks. I believe these are shown in the instruction manuals (and in a shorter cut on the box) and also in cartoon form over on the website.

As you say, there will probably also be another official depiction of them recovering these masks and it's this third storyboard which I would expect to be the Canon depiction of this event. There are a few reasons for this but the big one would have to be that you can't satisfactorily tell these stories on half an A5 sheet of paper or a 30 second video clip. In order to do the story ANY justice whatsoever, Lego is likely to dedicate some media exclusively to the telling of these important storyline events. Personally I would epect to see a full comic release to depict the recovering of these masks but it may be that TLG opts to go largely paperless and instead keeps it online in either comic or cartoon form. Either way I would expect it to be longer and more detailed than what we've seen so far which are essentially teasers. I'd also expect to see the narrator replaced with dialogue for the purpose of actual storytelling.

That's both what I hope for and to a large degree what I expect. Of course, it may be that Lego doesn't pay too much attention to what is canon in which case we could see a basic timeline being established with many variations on the same storyline. I'd prefer not to see this though and I'd be surprised if TLG went this direction knowing how hungry Bionicle fans are for Canonisation! Of course I'd rather not see it go to far the other way either so we have at least some room for fanfics and interpretation but I think there are some key events like the recovery of the Golden masks that should be fixed in the mythos.

Aanchir · January 14, 2015

Well, there's this cover picture where he's missing a hand...

He's not missing a hand. You see that black space around the wrist joint? That's his hand. It's just drawn at an impossible right angle from his wrist so that he can hold the sword up in line from his forearm. Doing so in the set would instead require attaching the sword into the axle hole at the end of the Y-joint instead of one of the ones at the sides, but Sayger chose to draw it differently.

If you're talking about the hand holding the blaster, it's presumably meant to be hidden behind the blaster.

**Dorek** · January 14, 2015

Well, there's this cover picture where he's missing a hand...
He's not missing a hand. You see that black space around the wrist joint? That's his hand. It's just drawn at an impossible right angle from his wrist so that he can hold the sword up in line from his forearm. Doing so in the set would instead require attaching the sword into the axle hole at the end of the Y-joint instead of one of the ones at the sides, but Sayger chose to draw it differently.

If you're talking about the hand holding the blaster, it's presumably meant to be hidden behind the blaster.

I was referring to the sword hand, and it's debatable since the entire image is marred with black spots. And there are plenty of examples where he does omit the hands entirely (introductory picture of the Mahri, where he's prepping a Nova Blast, etc). I was just making a joke =P

TheSkeletonMan939 · January 14, 2015

It kind of reminds me that in the comics the Keystones were pieces of a stone tablet but that wasn't their official form. Same here, that might be not official.

Oh man, I'd totally forgotten about that.

On the one hand, artistic license has always led to debate about stuff - like the shape of the keystones, or whether the Toa have real hands or not, etc. So it probably shouldn't be surprising that it (probably) happened again.

On the other hand... Bionicle is a story about robot people on an isolated island. And the artist drew a human head. Isn't that a little odd? Could the artist have been told to add that head in for a reason? If I remember correctly, wasn't some sort of foreshadowing placed in MNOLG hinting at Mata Nui's true form (a robot)? Could that just be the same thing here, except a lot less subtle?

I personally think it's artistic license, but the other possibility is something to consider as well.

Munty · January 14, 2015

...On the other hand... Bionicle is a story about robot people on an isolated island. And the artist drew a human head. Isn't that a little odd? Could the artist have been told to add that head in for a reason? If I remember correctly, wasn't some sort of foreshadowing placed in MNOLG hinting at Mata Nui's true form (a robot)? Could that just be the same thing here, except a lot less subtle?

No, so long as we only ever see the human statue appear in concept artwork it doesn't have to mean anything. Virtually nothing in those comics is accurate to what we have in the actual release so far. It follows to reason that the statue will not exist in Okoto either.

IF, however, we see a human face again in the official, canon illustrations or animations. That would certainly warrant a return to this discussion!

Dogbert · January 16, 2015

I think it's way more interesting to see it this way: In G2, humans are a creation of the Bionicle.

Now, hear me out. Just because there is a representation of a human head, it doesn't mean humans don't exist, instead they are more o an idea. Take for example Quetzalcoatl, the feathered snake. Obiously the animal doesn't exist in real life, but the idea of it does exist. Basically, humans in G2 are a work of fiction, or a long forgotten cultural symbol.

Of course, it's just an hypothesis, but an interesting one at that.

Munty · January 16, 2015

I think it's way more interesting to see it this way: In G2, humans are a creation of the Bionicle.

Now, hear me out. Just because there is a representation of a human head, it doesn't mean humans actually exist, instead they are more o an idea. Take for example Quetzalcoatl, the feathered snake. Obiously the animal doesn't exist in real life, but the idea of it does exist. Basically, humans in G2 are a work of fiction, or a long forgotten cultural symbol.

Of course, it's just an hypothesis, but an interesting one at that.

Fixed that for you It's an interesting theory. Of course I'm still flying the 'this pic is not official' flag so technically none of this affects the real story one iota. But if it DID I would certainly be interested in your theory. I think I would feel it was a bit on the nose if that was the case though. For them to include a depiction of a human face and then later in the story turn around and say 'oh it was just a piece of art or idol or something' would feel to me like they changed their mind (about including a human race) or simply messed up initially (by including the image in the media) The latter has technically already happened, just thankfully not in an official final release.

kanohi of jello · January 16, 2015

I fear if the Bionicle community will progress/has progressed to a point where every leak, fan drawing, piece of new content, and comment by the creators is scrutinized and inspected under a microscope for anything that might be wrong or different. This tends to create a feeling of elitism in the longtime fans who 'know more' and are therefore 'bigger fans'. Every fandom goes through this and it turns others away from joining because they feel they will never be good enough to belong among the other fans.

Bionicle is (our life) , in the end, a toy. something to be taken lightly and made for enjoyment. I know the theory of humans in the bonkle world is not an overly serious thing, but the issue I have with it is that it symbolizes people focusing too much on details and less on the overall fun that bionicle is. For peat's sake, BIONICLE IS BACK!!! I'm still hyped about that.

thank you

*steps off soap box*

The 1st Shadow · January 16, 2015

I fear if the Bionicle community will progress/has progressed to a point where every leak, fan drawing, piece of new content, and comment by the creators is scrutinized and inspected under a microscope for anything that might be wrong or different. This tends to create a feeling of elitism in the longtime fans who 'know more' and are therefore 'bigger fans'. Every fandom goes through this and it turns others away from joining because they feel they will never be good enough to belong among the other fans.
Bionicle is (our life) , in the end, a toy. something to be taken lightly and made for enjoyment. I know the theory of humans in the bonkle world is not an overly serious thing, but the issue I have with it is that it symbolizes people focusing too much on details and less on the overall fun that bionicle is. For peat's sake, BIONICLE IS BACK!!! I'm still hyped about that.
thank you
*steps off soap box*

While I'm one of those people who examines everything, I have to agree with this. I like figuring out what the story is really getting at, discovering all its secrets, I think you're right in that some of us often take it to the extreme, myself included. Sometimes I forget that I was once a kid running through the store aisle to find the latest wave of sets, all ready to take one of them home and enjoy the fun of playing with it. Same with the books.

I have to commend you on that little nostalgia-punch to the face.

Don't get me wrong, I'll still dive into the details as often as I can, because that's just me. We do this to mostly clear up some general misconceptions about certain details. But you are right, in that sometimes we overdo it on a lot of things.

In this particular case, we're debating an unknown. The comic is questionable material, so we're really not sure what to make of it. :notsure:

**Nidhiki of the Shadows** · January 16, 2015

The comics weren't really accurate anyway, even to the characters themselves. This is artistic license at its finest, folks.

-NotS

Tahu3.0 · January 17, 2015

I myself do not consider those comics canon especially to what it did to Lewa.

Grungemeister · January 17, 2015

Looks like an Olmec head - http://www.olmec.info/wp-content/blogs.dir/77/files/2012/08/olmec-head.jpg

TheSkeletonMan939 · January 17, 2015

I myself do not consider those comics canon especially to what it did to Lewa.

... What'd it do to Lewa?

Munty · January 17, 2015

It gave him spikes on the side of his head It also did lots of other things wrong so jello gets a thumbs up from me as well for trying to talk some sense into people! Far from 'not knowing what to make of it' I think we know exactly how to treat this. The comic is not canon and never will be due to it's huge amount of flaws. The ONLY reason we should need to discuss humans in Bionicle again in the future is if we see a similar depiction in FINAL artwork that is considered canon by the creators...

Regitnui · January 17, 2015

if we see a similar depiction in FINAL artwork that is considered canon by the creators...

Like the 90-sec videos, or the background of set artwork/comics.

Munty · January 17, 2015

if we see a similar depiction in FINAL artwork that is considered canon by the creators...
Like the 90-sec videos, or the background of set artwork/comics.

Exactly, something final that's been approved and canonised by the story team by releasing it to the public. Not some half-finished, traced, wholly inconsistent doodle that probably exists for the sole purpose of storyboarding the final drafts... I'll take it more seriously if it turns up in some of the final work. But I kind of hope it doesn't

Sergei Rahkmaninoff · January 17, 2015

It might be worth noting that in Gali's character animation, there is nothing remotely similar to that statue shown. The mask doesn't even seem to be on a pedestal in the comic, which I would say clearly marks the comic as non-canon.

Munty · January 19, 2015

It also seems (as I mentioned before) That Gali isn't even wearing her own Kaukau but the same mask as the protector in her particular comic strip... The whole thing is wrong, therefore it is clearly non-canon.

Humans are canon in Bionicle 2015

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