Geography of Mata Nui and Metru Nui

[derhenson]

So, like many things involving the geography and physical nature of the Matoran Universe, this one always confuses me. How exactly are the two islands connected? I've summarized how I've come to understand this in the abhorrent image below (with black being the route taken by the Toa Metru). It seems to me that the "domes' must be more like cavities into the GSR's body, rather than, as I used to think of them, literal domes built around the islands, leaving empty space between the outside of the dome and the "shell" of the GSR. Please correct me on any flaws in my comprehension of this subject, which, at best is shaky (at least it's better than Voya Nui, though). Hopefully this will help some people wrap their heads around it.

[Ford]

You've pretty much got it spot on, with some minute details missing. Think of the GSR as a human body, with various cavities containing organs. The organs of the body are coated with fluid (in this case, we'll call that the protodermis sea for the GSR) to keep the organs from damaging forces that lie outside the body. In the case of Metru Nui compared to Mata Nui, the island inside the robot (Metru Nui) was significantly smaller than the island outside (Mata Nui). This is why the Matoran had to build boats to get to Metru Nui in the first place.

There is a great picture of the Karda Nui dome from Christian Faber that you can view here.

The great barrier was, as I understand it, a way for any of the MU's inhabitants to travel between the two islands, which opened whenever Mata Nui landed on a planet, creating a cloak around his face (being the island of Mata Nui). When Mata Nui was attacked by Teridax's virus, the cloaking mechanism activated, as well as the opening to the tunnel for the inhabitants to reach the surface.

[IcarusBen]

Faber's drawing doesn't leave a whole lot of room for the Southern Continent. I always thought the passage to Metru Nui was more like a grand spiral circling from Mangaia around the Metru Nui dome.

 

Though, here's a question; how does light get from Mata Nui's eyes into Metru Nui? From what I can see, both eyes are mostly covered up with the island of Mata Nui.

[Constructelf]

One of his eyes was underneath Naho Bay. The other was covered up.

[IcarusBen]

Yes, but if I recall, Metru Nui had two suns, even after the GC.

[Toa Komali]

Yes, but if I recall, Metru Nui had two suns, even after the GC.

Odd point indeed. From what I know when the Matoran returned to Metru Nui there was light for them to see. But if the eyes are covered up (The one at the bottom of Naho bay is covered by dirt and reef) How did it light up?

 

Also what caused Mata Nui to look like a giant version of Metru Nui? I know as Mata Nui's brain it would have some influence. But come on the Mangai Volcano is like a natural and enlarged version of the Colosseum.  

[derhenson]

This one is also quite helpful. I had no idea Voya Nui was supposed to be so tiny! Or that Metru Nui was so much smaller than Mata Nui. Or that Karda Nui was so massive compared to the Southern Continent.

[IcarusBen]

When was that image produced? Did they seriously plan ahead all the way to 2008?

[bonesiii]

To the OP:

 

-Like Fordianl said, you've got it just about right. All I'm seeing to correct are a few nitpicks.

 

-First nitpick: The Toa Metru took several routes. When I first looked at the topic, I skipped your text to see the image first, and assumed that was meant to be the volcano's pipes. More about that in a second, but about the Metru's routes... First, I think they exited somewhere near Ga-Koro's future location? Then they went back down through another tunnel, which I forget where it was exactly, but neither of these were near the center of the island as far as I recall. Finally,* they brought airships up through the sunholes (the eyes).

 

*Except Vakama apparently walked alone back up through the second route, or one close to it. This is actually much more complicated and I think I'm misremembering a detail or two, so I won't try to add more than that. Short answer is just, more than one route.

 

-I'm not sure what you mean about cavities versus literal domes. For most of the islands, they are probably literally dome-shaped. The continents' caverns are probably more like disc shapes, like giant frisbees, than proper domes, though. And your image shows an actual dome, so... confused what you mean here. Basically, I don't see why the two things in your "or" statement are mutually exclusive. You can accurately describe them either way. I could guess what you're driving at but don't wanna put words in your mouth.

 

Now to the image itself:

 

-Starting at the top, the peak you show over the nose looks volcanic. Canonically the tallest peak is Mount Ihu and would be in that position; it is a "pointy" mountain ( ), not a volcano. The volcano is farther south, over the mouth of the giant; the Mangai. (These features formed the nose and mouth of a "face" in the island's shape, with the Ga-Wahi bay forming one eye.) This is why my earlier confusion about the black line came up; your image makes the black line come up inside the volcano so it looks like the lava pipes rather than a Toa Metru route. If you were to use it that way, it should come up in the mouth, not the nose. Anywho.

 

-Note that which routes end where on the lower side is not known in most cases (I'm talking here about the Mata to Metru routes), but the southernmost point (toward the chin of the giant's face versus the top of the head) is the least likely, since that was a tunnel to Karzahni. North is a major candidate for many of them, or any other point around there. (There was also at least one sea route south. I take this as probably two sea routes following those tubes on the sides of the giant's neck, so south-southeast and south-southwest.)

 

-Speaking of Karzahni, it is placed in the chin region of the head, since its connection to Metru Nui's dome is a land route and thus cannot bend like the sea tunnels between most domes. So, Metru Nui's dome should be a bit smaller and farther to the north, centered under the eyes, not the nose (also because the sunholes were at the top of Metru's dome, though that matters little as an illusion effect bent their light so they seemed to rise and set). And Karzahni should have a (probably smaller) dome south of Metru Nui, with a depiction of land going clean through a tunnel and a land peninsula extending north a tiny ways into Metru Nui's dome.

 

-Which brings me to the last nitpick: Metru Nui should be much smaller, with a lot more open Silver Sea between it and the Great Barrier. I did an image showing the size relationship between the two islands here (ignore most of the other details, though -- this was before we knew about the giant robot; see clarifications below the link):

 

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/bonesiii/Bionicle/bionicle_dome_3d.jpg

 

The size of the dome in my image was way, way too big, and the tunnel should be pointing south (left), and there should be at least one other. There's a dim line of darkened brown on the right representing Takanuva's route to the Mangaia (Makuta's lair, not to be confused with the volcano of Mangai) -- this line is more or less accurate, just imagine it adjusted to a smaller dome. And the thin silver line going from the leftmost side of the image, underground but above the dome itself, to the rightmost, represents what at the time was simply a mysterious impenetrable layer mentioned in MNOG, but that we now know is not shaped like I've put here, because it's Mata Nui's face.

 

 

 

Okay, now to Ford's reply, got some nitpicks there too:

 

-Please note that seeing the Silver Sea as comparable to fluid around organs would only be a very loose metaphor. Technology that was part of maintaining various functions of the giant would surface in certain places on the islands and continents, and the rest of the land was basically habitation for the maintanance workers (and workers who supported maintanance workers with other things like food production). The Silver Sea should be seen more as a transportation system for those workers and their economic stuff from island to island within the habitation. So... I guess it's more comparable to blood vessels, specifically in their capacity to transport white blood cells and other things that help protect the body from threats. (But not in their oxygen-transporting capacity for energy distribution; that would be more akin to the "wires" or whatever presumably running underneath the domes from Karda Nui.)

 

-That Faber image was concept art, and is not canon. Later the plans changed, so there should be a dome for the Southern Continent above Karda Nui. Karda Nui probably is also not spherical if seen from the side, as it was said to be vast, and for that to fit inside the giant, with room for an also large cavern for the SC both sandwiched into the body of the giant, it has to be flattish. The Faber pic does give a vague sense of the idea of the other domes, though.

 

-This is probably the most nitpicky of all, but describing the barrier as a way to travel may be confusing. The barrier was simply the edge of the dome, and tunnels between the domes (so cutting through the barrier) were for travel. But I got whatcha meant.

 

-I didn't understand the "opened" part of your last paragraph. You might have a misconception there, but I don't wanna put words in your mouth either.

 

-It's better to describe the island over the face as camouflage, not a cloak. Cloak is normally used for invisibility, and IMO it's almost certain that the giant did also have an actual cloaking device (invisibility for when he flew down to land on the alien planets).

 

-Also, it was the crash landing on Aqua Magna that activated the camouflage system, not the virus directly, although the crash was of course caused by the virus.

 

 

Icarus -- some of the routes may be spirals around the dome, but they might also spiral in shorter distances going down one side, or zigzag like a tall building's stairway.

 

And only one eye was uncovered in the Aqua Magna, crash-caused version of the island, and only a little. The Ga-Wahi one was buried by sand and water. The Ko-Wahi one was also buried, but by a glacier, and since ice can be more translucent, evidently enough light made it down. (Also, if badmem serves, one of the eyelids closed when Mata Nui fell asleep, and the other partially closed. Apparently they were both supposed to close, but one malfunctioned due to his deteriorated state after the virus attack.)

 

(Yeah. Complicated, huh? )

 

 

Edit: *sees several other posts came in*

 

Yeah, I thought there were some discrepancies about the eyes. Regardless, that has no real effect on anything. One of them was definitely open so gave enough sunlight, and this only mattered for the most recent 1000 years of the 100,000+, during which only Dume, the Rahaga, Keetongu... and I think Dweller were living there. I think different sources said different things about that. So... just take that section of my post above with more salt.

Edited January 14, 2015 by bonesiii

[derhenson]

Well that's me schooled for the night.

 

I can admit without shame that I'm pretty ignorant of most of the gritty details of the Bionicle canon (I just recently realized that Mangai was, in fact, over the mouth and not the nose, for example). As far as the "route" goes, all I was trying to convey through the image was "Metru Nui -> Great Barrier-> Mata Nui", not the exact path(s). The image was more of a topological, rather than a literal representation (think of a subway map). I'm not trying to make a reference piece (if I was, I would have put some artistic effort into it XD).

 

As far as what I meant about the domes, I always thought that the MU was basically just a big, hollow space with some sort of artificial gravity to keep a protodermis ocean stuck to the back side. The islands sat in this ocean, and the domes were like greenhouse domes over them (which would make the domes sort of pointless). What I see now, is that the interior of the GSR is essentially solid (or at least not vacuous space), probably filled with machinery and such, and punctuated with large, dome-shaped cavities. Inside them are small protodermis seas and islands, and they are connected by tunnels through the metal and inner workings of the GSR. Karda Nui is unusual because it is a larger, spherical space that sits below the Southern Continent dome (I think of it as a large bubble with a little bubble stuck on top). The Pit is also an exception because it's a cavity filled entirely with jail cells and has no sea or island. What I meant by "literal dome" is a semispherical membrane, rather than a solid negative or positive shape (like an outlined circle versus a filled circle). Call me out if any of this is in any way incorrect.

 

Also, I have to say I'm quite taken aback by your godlike knowledge of the Bionicle canon.

Edited January 14, 2015 by derhenson

[IcarusBen]

Bonesii is kinda like the human Biosector. It's kinda amazing how much he knows.

 

And, yeah, the domes are used to separate the islands from the machinery in the robot.

Edited January 14, 2015 by IcarusBen

[derhenson]

Bonesii is kinda like the human Biosector. It's kinda amazing how much he knows.

 

And, yeah, the domes are used to separate the islands from the machinery in the robot.

How do you know he's human, though? What if he's just an AI program like IBM's Watson, created as an experiment by BS01?

[IcarusBen]

I just... know. I doubt Watson would choose that avatar.

[bonesiii]

Understood about the routes. Yeah, works as generically representing that there is at least one route something like that.

 

Yeah, it's not a big hollow space. It's lots of little hollow spaces which are the domes. (Well, "little" compared to the giant itself.) Surrounding those is rock and technology (and a few tinier cave systems like the one Mavrah hid in).

 

Again, I doubt Karda Nui is spherical canonically (in the final plans after the early Faber concept). You may have missed that part in my earlier post (easy to do I'm sure, heh). It would fit nicely with the spherical Codrex inside, but to fit as a sphere, it would have to be small, and it was described as vast.

 

Yeah, the Pit is another complication. (FTR, it's in the ceiling of the Southern Continent cavern, just beneath the outer hull of the giant's front.)

 

And thanks, but it's not that impressive -- been doing this for ten years and the subject comes up all the time. It would be hard not to remember most of it.

 

(Somehow I managed to get foggy on the eyes closing thing though. If anyone knows the full story there I'd love to hear it so I can make sure that part of my retelling is accurate. )

[IcarusBen]

I'm still wondering; did they seriously plan out all the way to 2008?

[aldero]

One of his eyes was underneath Naho Bay. The other was covered up.

 

Nah, Mount Ihu wasn't covered up.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

I'm still wondering; did they seriously plan out all the way to 2008?

That's a yes and no - Yes, they did plan out Mata Nui being a Giant Robot and that he'd be awakened at some point which would result in the destruction of the island. But no, they did not plan out every single detail that far back. For example, the decision to make the original Matoran Toa Inika was decided by the original story head Bob Thompson probably back in 2004. So while they do plan in advance (usually 2-ish years) they never actually had all the pieces in play at its conception.

 

-NotS

[fishers64]

What is this, S&T's third favorite subject? The first is the Geography of Voya Nui, and there's something else in there somewhere...
 
All right, I'll start with this - there are three routes from Metru Nui to Mata Nui: 
 
1) Is the route that the Toa Metru took from Metru Nui to Mata Nui in Voyage of Fear. This was a sea/water route - they were on a boat. 
 
2) Is the route that the Toa Metru took from Mata Nui to Metru Nui in Maze of Shadows. This was a land route - it goes past the lair of the Bohrok and a bunch of Makuta's expieriments/lab. Toa Vakama ostensibly took this route from Metru Nui to Mata Nui at the end of Time Trap.
 
3) Is the route that the Toa Metru took the Metru Nui Matoran after they were rescued (from Metru Nui to Mata Nui) to Mata Nui - though the one remaining sunhole that was left open - using airships. 
 
FTR, none of those routes are represented by the black line drawn on first poster's map (I think he got that, but just reiterating it just in case )

I always thought the passage to Metru Nui was more like a grand spiral circling from Mangaia around the Metru Nui dome.

I'm inclined to believe otherwise - the Toa Metru's route in Maze of Shadows isn't really a spiral. Mangaia isn't protrayed as a spiral, and I don't think they actually passed through Mangaia proper. Could be wrong about this. 
 

Yes, but if I recall, Metru Nui had two suns, even after the GC.

This is false: 
 

[Onewa] expected the city to be dark, and it was, nor was he surprised that only one sun now shone in the heavens.

 
The movie shows both eyes closing - pretty sure that's artistic license. Even still, that's the only two portrayals I recall - it has one sun or no sun, it can't have two. 
 

-Note that which routes end where on the lower side is not known in most cases (I'm talking here about the Mata to Metru routes), but the southernmost point (toward the chin of the giant's face versus the top of the head) is the least likely, since that was a tunnel to Karzahni. North is a major candidate for many of them, or any other point around there. (There was also at least one sea route south. I take this as probably two sea routes following those tubes on the sides of the giant's neck, so south-southeast and south-southwest.)

It's not really clear, but my running theory is that the Voyage of Fear route (route #1) is off the coast of Ga-Metru, since LoMN portrays them going off the Great Temple bridge straight toward it.

As for route #2, they were near Le-Metru, which is near the southern area. Since that is southernmost part of the island, and directly south is unlikely, they probably sailed in from one of the robot's "cheeks". The right side is probably more accurate, since they ended up at the Test Track shortly after landing.

Here's a map of the city that may help (I drew the routes I'm thinking of on it)

Nuju viewed something "on the southern tip of the city" on page 18 - that's where Le-Metru is according to the map. So they probably weren't kicked around by the storm badly enough to miss where they were heading toward. The storm is portrayed as shoving them into the island, not getting them off coarse.

All of that is somewhat theoretical, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

-Speaking of Karzahni, it is placed in the chin region of the head, since its connection to Metru Nui's dome is a land route and thus cannot bend like the sea tunnels between most domes. So, Metru Nui's dome should be a bit smaller and farther to the north, centered under the eyes, not the nose (also because the sunholes were at the top of Metru's dome, though that matters little as an illusion effect bent their light so they seemed to rise and set). And Karzahni should have a (probably smaller) dome south of Metru Nui, with a depiction of land going clean through a tunnel and a land peninsula extending north a tiny ways into Metru Nui's dome.

If you say so...I think I'm going to have to check this one, since I always pictured Karz being in the upper chest area. :headache:

I think there was something in here asking where the land route (route #2) came up in Mata Nui - the answer is in Po-Wahi, on Maze of Shadows pages 15-16 respectively. (There isn't a good quote, so I'm just going to go with that.)
 

Edit: *sees several other posts came in*

Yeah, I thought there were some discrepancies about the eyes. Regardless, that has no real effect on anything. One of them was definitely open so gave enough sunlight, and this only mattered for the most recent 1000 years of the 100,000+, during which only Dume, the Rahaga, Keetongu... and I think Dweller were living there. I think different sources said different things about that. So... just take that section of my post above with more salt.

(Somehow I managed to get foggy on the eyes closing thing though. If anyone knows the full story there I'd love to hear it so I can make sure that part of my retelling is accurate. )

You may want to see what I responded to IcarusBen with, but I think I need to pull Greg answers for this.
 

2. This came up recently on the BS01 wiki: a member was confused by the end of Mask of Light; he thought that the last scene with Takanuva standing on a ledge and shooting out a beam of light, brightening everything, was Takanuva unblocking the sunholes. I think I remember you saying that that last scene was Takanuva using his power to recharge the dead lightstones in Metru Nui, but I'm not sure. Is this the case? 
2) He was not unblocking the sunholes. One sunhole is under water and one is under ice, so they were not unblocked.

Erm, I can't find any more to support the "crash caused one to stay open while the other was closed" thing, although that's a very good theory if it isn't actual fact.

Edited January 15, 2015 by fishers64

[Toa Komali]

Yes, but if I recall, Metru Nui had two suns, even after the GC.

This is false: 

 

[Onewa] expected the city to be dark, and it was, nor was he surprised that only one sun now shone in the heavens.

 

The movie shows both eyes closing - pretty sure that's artistic license. Even still, that's the only two portrayals I recall - it has one sun or no sun, it can't have two. 

 

 

While the movie showed the eyes closing that is described in the novel too. Metru Nui has no Lightstone sun like Xia or Odina. The eye holes are meant to provide the light to the city with night falling thanks to a alteration of light. If I remember right thats a involuntary reaction of the GSR. But anyway the eyes are indeed the suns for Metru Nui.

 

From what you say after the return one of the holes was open and the other wasn't. Making the city dim like there were clouds all the time. That makes some sense but I know Naho Bay covered up one eye far too much to let light through. Maybe the one under the Ihu glacier got light through the ice?

[fishers64]

From what you say after the return one of the holes was open and the other wasn't. Making the city dim like there were clouds all the time. That makes some sense but I know Naho Bay covered up one eye far too much to let light through. Maybe the one under the Ihu glacier got light through the ice?

Yeah, that's what the books that Greg, the canon authority, wrote, and what makes the most sense. I used to headcanon the airships going through the land route (route #2 in post #18), but I remember finding Greg quotes that say the airships went up through the sunholes. 

 

The Ihu glacier one got the light through, yeah. 

 

EDIT: I'll throw this one in for fun: 

 

4. How many passages from Mata Nui to Metru Nui are currently known? So far I can think of three. Takanuva illuminated a sea route from the gate in Makuta's lair. The Toa Metru took a sea route (a different one?) through a gap in the Great Barrier that emerged in the underwater cave that Nokama sent Gali into in Tales of the Masks. (Presumably that one is now closed off due to Mavrah's wild Rahi.) And the Toa Metru went toward Metru Nui through a labyrinth of Makuta's tunnels in Maze of Shadows. How did they get from the tunnels to the island?   

 

     

 

   4) By boat -- which they had to build when they got there, which is how Book 7 starts. How, when they had nothing that would float, says you? Never underestimate the dark twists of a BIONICLE story, says I.   

     

 

  As for how many passages there are ... potentially quite a few. There are the ones you mentioned, plus who knows how many other Bohrok tunnels that lead up to the surface. In addition, if you had an airship that could handle the altitude and could get past other challenges (like water and ice), you could fly up through the suns if you had to.

 

That's from 2005, right before the release of Web of the Visorak. I'm still not having very good luck on the dialogues today.

Edited January 15, 2015 by fishers64

[Toa Komali]

 

From what you say after the return one of the holes was open and the other wasn't. Making the city dim like there were clouds all the time. That makes some sense but I know Naho Bay covered up one eye far too much to let light through. Maybe the one under the Ihu glacier got light through the ice?

Yeah, that's what the books that Greg, the canon authority, wrote, and what makes the most sense. I used to headcanon the airships going through the land route (route #2 in post #18), but I remember finding Greg quotes that say the airships went up through the sunholes. 

 

The Ihu glacier one got the light through, yeah. 

 

Well what do you know I got it right.   It does make sense seeing how ice is clear enough to let light through. Soil and sea debris not so much.

 

I always wondered about that too. The first voyage through was tight from what I remember from the fight with Mavrah's Rahi and that was a small Vahki transport. The air ships were at least 10 times the size of that so how did they fit? The sun hole idea seems the most plausible but I'm no expert on it. Hmm Anyone else remember Greg's word on the Great Rescue?

[bonesiii]

Re fishers' theory with the image about the directions in the Silver Sea: That logic seems reasonable to me.

 

Yes, the land tunnel between Metru Nui's dome (with peninsula) and Karzahni is definitely canon. No sources as far as I know clearly state that it's in the chin, but the alternative is that Mata Nui's neck can't bend, which is obviously false. (Unless you wanna invoke some ad hoc rock-bending power, which would seem rather inefficient and has no evidence. And the fact that Metru Nui's dome is centered under the eyes, which are high up on the head of the giant, leaves room for Karzahni in the chin area nicely.)

 

Yeah, I thought that one route came up in Po-Wahi but wasn't confident enough to say it (pretty sure my retelling says it but I wasn't sure offhand if I'd made that up or not). Thanks.

 

Re: the eyes... I'm... still confused. Oh well... maybe it'll get cleared up at some point. FTR, my take was that the eyes being shown closING is canonically acceptable but that one of them must have ground to a halt partway (but open still enough for the airships to come through).

 

It should also be noted that the glacier moved into place slowly, so it was covered much later. That was probably obvious because they could get airships through, but FTR.

 

I suppose it's possible only one eye closing all the way wasn't a malfunction, though -- maybe automated systems or even Mata Nui's consciousness realized that eye was underwater. (There's been theories that water never would come in that way due to a forcefield, since it would seem one must be in place to keep air in but not solid matter blocked. But I don't know if we know water wouldn't come in.)

 

I used to headcanon the airships going through the land route (route #2 in post #18), but I remember finding Greg quotes that say the airships went up through the sunholes.

This brings up another complication to add for the record -- IIRC, one of the books (WoS book version maybe?) actually does portray the airships as going through one of the cave routes. However, it leaves the story off before they emerge and it's left to be assumed they would, so this is reconcileable with the canon answer by saying they tried to find a route that way, but couldn't find any either still open or larger enough to fit the airships, and then eventually thought of trying the suns (since they already knew the sky had to be fake). Which would actually make a lot of sense, though it wouldn't have made for a dramatic movie or book addition.

[Toa Komali]

 

I used to headcanon the airships going through the land route (route #2 in post #18), but I remember finding Greg quotes that say the airships went up through the sunholes.

This brings up another complication to add for the record -- IIRC, one of the books (WoS book version maybe?) actually does portray the airships as going through one of the cave routes. However, it leaves the story off before they emerge and it's left to be assumed they would, so this is reconcileable with the canon answer by saying they tried to find a route that way, but couldn't find any either still open or larger enough to fit the airships, and then eventually thought of trying the suns (since they already knew the sky had to be fake). Which would actually make a lot of sense, though it wouldn't have made for a dramatic movie or book addition.

 

So the cannon is they flew through one of the eyes? I can see them knowing the sky was under ground after the trip the first time so it makes a lot of sense.