Toa Levacius Zehvor Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I just wish Greg would do for Bionicle what Michael Kirkbride has done with Elder Scrolls. The time spent dealing with the twenty-one questions of annoying 12-year olds could be applied just as well to answering one question with a decent, 1000 word serial. Further, and more important, is the encouragement within the TES Community for fan contributions and ideals in the creation of personal headcanons; meanwhile, Papa Bethesda just smiles down happily, while swimming without a care as people keep buying their games years after release just for those sweet mods. But I understand why Greg does it. He's been a lot more personally involved, so I imagine he feels a closer connection as "the writer" than "that one crazy guy who comes up with cool stuff". Not to mention still being on LEGO payroll, and the fact that he seems to enjoy interacting with his fanbase, rather than screwing with them. -Toa Levacius Zehvor 1 Quote "I disapprove of what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall (often attributed to Voltaire) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munty Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) See, look at that. We had a veritable flame w-.... no... not really. Flame skirmish? Whatever. And now, look! We're joking about Fikous and TO Kraata!who should still be canonized since Greg is the head writer for Gen1 and will be until the day Lego tells him to stop no matter what anyone else says. To FRIENDSHIP! Hey! I see that tiny writing in there... FLAME ON! IT's true, Greg must feel a seriously strong connection with the Bionicle story, but I don't feel that gives him the right to dictate it to us even when it contradicts the general wishes of the majority of the fanbase. I posted in a Boidoh poll yesterday for a kanohi canonisation and the winning mask had 24 votes. The other options also had 24 votes. And there were a further 22 votes from people who don't want it canonised at all. So only ONE THIRD of the people who voted actually chose the winning mask. That makes them the minority and therefore the vote should be null and void. Although we here in the TOK party feel that even a majority vote shouldn't lead to unnecessary canonisation... A court of law doesn't work on majority but unanimity... And Bionicle is more important than the law after all... Edited January 21, 2015 by Munty 1 Quote Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!> > > Bionic Bricks < < < Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon~ Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This went overboard quickly. If you want to canonize this thing, and if you do, you're wuite mad in my opinion, feel free to refer to the Guilelines that instruct yo to have a discussion topic, then a poll, and then submit the answer. But don't be an to fellow fans that don't want this minor detail seen in canon. 1 Quote Archon *** "For one to truly feel alive, the person must kill oneself a little bit each and every day." Check out my MOC, one of the new generation of Toa on Spherus Magna! ***Toa Kyraan*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcarusBen Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 To Archon@ wuite? Oh, dear, your Scottish is slippin'. To Munty@ instead of a jury system, BZP relies on a polling system. The reason being is that, in a jury, it's a yes or no answer. In these canonization polls, unamity is nearly impossible. I, as founder-by-proxy of the Fikou Party, believe that practicality should supersede unamity by vote-by-majority. Admittedly, your example is pretty screwed up. Quote LEGO Republic:The ValkyrieThe "Christmas Brick" My BZPRPG Profiles Now a proud member of The Kanohi Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munty Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 But don't be an ###### to fellow fans that don't want this minor detail seen in canon.I think I missed something, when did anything go overboard? Who's being an ######? IcarusBen and I are having a very civil and balance discussion I think, and having fun with it at the same time. No ######s in here In these canonization polls, unamity is nearly impossible. I, as founder-by-proxy of the Fikou Party, believe that practicality should supersede unamity by vote-by-majority. Admittedly, your example is pretty screwed up.Lol founder by proxy You're right, there's very little unanimity in the world. The fact it can take a jury days to reach it doesn't bode well for it as a practice either, it certainly isn't fit for purpose in an internet forums! What is the fikou party's stance on a majority vote? Do you feel that simply being the highest scoring choice in the poll is enough to count as conclusive or do you feel that a 'winning' answer should total more votes than the total of all other options? TOK feel that the latter option is the very least required to make such a decision. Of course even in this case, the new canon would still be disappointing almost half of all voters. Does this seem fair to the Fikou party?! Quote Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!> > > Bionic Bricks < < < Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcarusBen Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 A good idea would be a sort-of tournament setup. I.E. we take the top 8 votes, then we vote, then the top 4, then vote again, then the top 2, then we vote on the winner. It would help keep people from getting all upset over their favorite losing. Of course, we'd have to include a non-canonization option in all polls, but if it gets eliminated 1st round, then it's gone for the during of the "election." Quote LEGO Republic:The ValkyrieThe "Christmas Brick" My BZPRPG Profiles Now a proud member of The Kanohi Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobber Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 But don't be an ###### to fellow fans that don't want this minor detail seen in canon.I think I missed something, when did anything go overboard? Who's being an ######? IcarusBen and I are having a very civil and balance discussion I think, and having fun with it at the same time. No ######s in here In these canonization polls, unamity is nearly impossible. I, as founder-by-proxy of the Fikou Party, believe that practicality should supersede unamity by vote-by-majority. Admittedly, your example is pretty screwed up.Lol founder by proxy You're right, there's very little unanimity in the world. The fact it can take a jury days to reach it doesn't bode well for it as a practice either, it certainly isn't fit for purpose in an internet forums! What is the fikou party's stance on a majority vote? Do you feel that simply being the highest scoring choice in the poll is enough to count as conclusive or do you feel that a 'winning' answer should total more votes than the total of all other options? TOK feel that the latter option is the very least required to make such a decision. Of course even in this case, the new canon would still be disappointing almost half of all voters. Does this seem fair to the Fikou party?! We believe that if the majority believes something should be canonized, that that's how it goes. And, yes. It does seem fair since everyone had a chance to vote. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derhenson Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Please don't ask Greg. Why do people care so much about what he says?Probably because Bionicle is essentially his brainchild and he's written virtually every piece of Bionicle canon. Still, though, I wouldn't waste his time with this question though. I doubt he remembers minute details like that anyway with such a big universe to keep track of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munty Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Of course, we'd have to include a non-canonization option in all polls, but if it gets eliminated 1st round, then it's gone for the during of the "election."We believe that if the majority believes something should be canonized, that that's how it goes. And, yes. It does seem fair since everyone had a chance to vote. Both of these points bring up the same issue. What do we define as the majority, or getting knocked out? The poll I quoted early didn't have a 'majority' option so technically the whole thing should be null and void. At least that's what the TOK party believes... The absolute minimum required for any form of canonisation should be that the majority of involved voters agree on one option.If a majority opinion is not reached then the poll should be thrown out. And I could be wrong but I'm yet to see ANY poll where there has been a majority result from the available options. Chasm, are we on the same page regarding 'majority'? Do you believe that a majority vote amounts to 'more people than the other options' or 'more votes than the other options combined'? As the TOK party feels that any option with less than 50% of the votes is NOT supported by the majority and therefore if pursued to canon, the 'fact' being canonised would actually be the opinion of the minority. That's not something we want to see, how about you guys in the Fikou party? Icarus Ben, that sort of tiered voting seems slightly flawed to me. Again it comes down to when you 'eliminate' an option though. If you follow the rules of majority voting then fine but that doesn't work for a tournament as there could never be a majority outcome. So how do you determine the winners over the losers? What if out of 16 options, 8 have 10 votes and the other 8 have 9? IT hardly seems fair to ignore an almost equal amount of people just because they didn't find one more person to agree with them in time. Also, a tiered system seems hugely biased towards pro-canonisation as there is only a 1/16 chance of someone voting for a non-canonisation option in the first round alone. Even if an anti-canonisation vote wins in the first round (by ANY margin from 1-100 votes) it will still need to win the following 3 rounds as well in order to actually be accepted as the preferred option. Contrarily, it only needs to fall in the bottom 50% of votes one ONE single occasion and it will be eliminated for the duration of the poll. I don't think it works personally. We at the TOK party are more interested in the Fikou's stance on majority voting. Less than 50% is NOT a majority, we want the Fikou party to acknowledge this! 1 Quote Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!> > > Bionic Bricks < < < Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobber Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Of course, we'd have to include a non-canonization option in all polls, but if it gets eliminated 1st round, then it's gone for the during of the "election."We believe that if the majority believes something should be canonized, that that's how it goes. And, yes. It does seem fair since everyone had a chance to vote. Chasm, are we on the same page regarding 'majority'? Do you believe that a majority vote amounts to 'more people than the other options' or 'more votes than the other options combined'? As the TOK party feels that any option with less than 50% of the votes is NOT supported by the majority and therefore if pursued to canon, the 'fact' being canonised would actually be the opinion of the minority. That's not something we want to see, how about you guys in the Fikou party? 'More people than the other options' sounds about right. Though, I think we should declare cyber-war on the TOK Party 'cause there seems to be one member in it. (you) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishers64 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think the TOK Party and the Fikou Party are both members of the Oscar-Mayer Encrusted SPAM Party. Therefore on behalf of the BZPower SPAM Party Exclusion Act of 2001 and the Backstreet Boy's singing "I want it that way", I hereby make a motion to get back on topic. More to the point, I believe that this question has been answered. According to the Official Greg Dialogues, the power of the Trans Orange Kraata has not yet been established or assigned. Further, given that it is generally agreed that previous answers of Greg supersede new answers from the LMB, any efforts to canonize the TOK will be less than profitable. If we can agree on that, then there is little point to taking sides over the issue. The anti-canonization proponents have won yonder battle. If there was a battle. And if that is the case, there is little more to discuss. 1 Quote Hero Factory RPG | Bionicle Mafia XXIX: Storyline & Theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munty Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 'More people than the other options' sounds about right. Though, I think we should declare cyber-war on the TOK Party 'cause there seems to be one member in it. (you) More people than the other options results in a very unfair end result where the canonisation only reflects a minority of the community at large so I'd say it sounds anything but right! Also, I had noticed that my reinforcements haven't materialised yet. I guess they have better things to do (unlike the Fikou party lol) and clearly all the guys who cares enough to make it into a sig are on the opposing party I think the TOK Party and the Fikou Party are both members of the Oscar-Mayer Encrusted SPAM Party. Therefore on behalf of the BZPower SPAM Party Exclusion Act of 2001 and the Backstreet Boy's singing "I want it that way", I hereby make a motion to get back on topic. More to the point, I believe that this question has been answered. According to the Official Greg Dialogues, the power of the Trans Orange Kraata has not yet been established or assigned. Further, given that it is generally agreed that previous answers of Greg supersede new answers from the LMB, any efforts to canonize the TOK will be less than profitable. If we can agree on that, then there is little point to taking sides over the issue. The anti-canonization proponents have won yonder battle. If there was a battle. And if that is the case, there is little more to discuss. Oh Fishers, you used to be so much fun Can we have a dedicated debate topic? Or should we vote on it? It's about more than just the TOK, and while we're just having a bit of fun with this back and forth I DO think the underlying matter is becoming overly-prevalent in BZP for no good reason. No not strictly spam. And yes, the TOK will never be canonised which is good (and why it makes a good emblem for us [i mean me]) but in no time at all something else will come along. In fact I already read a topic today where someone said 'let's ask Greg!' although it was intended as a joke I believe. In all seriousness though, it seems ridiculous to canonise things that only a minority of the community want canonised. It's like passing a law that only a minority of voters want... That's what this discussion really is all about. Quote Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!> > > Bionic Bricks < < < Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobber Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) 'More people than the other options' sounds about right. Though, I think we should declare cyber-war on the TOK Party 'cause there seems to be one member in it. (you) More people than the other options results in a very unfair end result where the canonisation only reflects a minority of the community at large so I'd say it sounds anything but right! Also, I had noticed that my reinforcements haven't materialised yet. I guess they have better things to do (unlike the Fikou party lol) and clearly all the guys who cares enough to make it into a sig are on the opposing party Lol, don't get butthurt over this. Listen, I could give two ##### about this so have this pic and let this topic die: Edited January 22, 2015 by Chasm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishers64 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I think the TOK Party and the Fikou Party are both members of the Oscar-Mayer Encrusted SPAM Party. Therefore on behalf of the BZPower SPAM Party Exclusion Act of 2001 and the Backstreet Boy's singing "I want it that way", I hereby make a motion to get back on topic. More to the point, I believe that this question has been answered. According to the Official Greg Dialogues, the power of the Trans Orange Kraata has not yet been established or assigned. Further, given that it is generally agreed that previous answers of Greg supersede new answers from the LMB, any efforts to canonize the TOK will be less than profitable. If we can agree on that, then there is little point to taking sides over the issue. The anti-canonization proponents have won yonder battle. If there was a battle. And if that is the case, there is little more to discuss. Oh Fishers, you used to be so much fun Can we have a dedicated debate topic? Or should we vote on it? It's about more than just the TOK, and while we're just having a bit of fun with this back and forth I DO think the underlying matter is becoming overly-prevalent in BZP for no good reason. No not strictly spam. And yes, the TOK will never be canonised which is good (and why it makes a good emblem for us [i mean me]) but in no time at all something else will come along. In fact I already read a topic today where someone said 'let's ask Greg!' although it was intended as a joke I believe. In all seriousness though, it seems ridiculous to canonise things that only a minority of the community want canonised. It's like passing a law that only a minority of voters want... That's what this discussion really is all about.I think you're looking for this fine existing topic. If that will not suffice, this one may do. Edited January 22, 2015 by fishers64 Quote Hero Factory RPG | Bionicle Mafia XXIX: Storyline & Theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munty Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yep, those will do I've never even seen that first one, but then I try to avoid topics on canonisations as they usually make my brain hurt! Will see what's being discussed in those. As far as this topic goes, the TOK question has been answered so it's done Quote Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!> > > Bionic Bricks < < < Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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