Bionicle 2015 too rushed?

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

Well, I think a lot of people are just expecting them to flesh out the story anyway. What Greg did in his books was world-building through comparison or descriptive writing - for example:

 

"Matau looked at the water to see a fish swimming within. There once was a Matoran named Jim who liked to eat raw Ruki. He got food poisoning and died. Matau knew that he probably shouldn't eat the fish raw."

(this isn't a real example obviously, but I don't have the books on me right now so I can't really pull out a direct quote okay)

 

A good example of world-building via descriptive writing was the naming of Mt. Ihu or the reasoning behind the name of the Midak Skyblaster.

 

In that way, the writer is not really detracting from the main story itself but at the same time adding little bits of detail that help expand the world the series is built around. 

 

Also, if the book(s) build on the animations story, nothing wrong with that. Nine 90 second videos aren't much time to tell a decisive version of the story they are going for. They arguably have less content than the comics in G1, and the books were able to expand on the comics vision pretty drastically (for example BL#3 Power Play and BL#5 Inferno are only two books but have a lot more character building and action than the comics ever did). Describing the quest for the Golden Masks, or the Toa meeting up to face LoSS in more detail will pave potential for further character and world development. This could arise from lengthened or added conversations or, as I said earlier, descriptive writing and/or comparisons. 

 

And if they include illustrations, better for the wiki. Though, since Bionicle is targeting the same audience as in G1 and Hero Factory, I feel like the chances of getting straight-up chapter books is very likely.

 

-NotS

[Cressona]

I have to agree that the animations alone definitely don't feel like enough, and especially given the brand-new setting, characters, and story, I feel like if this is all we'll get until summer (regardless of pacing, whether it's all the animations at once or one a month-- I don't think pacing is the issue here, it's really the amount of story) it's definitely not enough story.

 

What 2015 needs, very badly, is some serious world-building.  All we've seen so far of Okoto is some backgrounds to the toa collecting their masks, and a few pictures of villages without much explication.  We haven't got any sense of the geography of the island (especially compared to, say, Mata Nui or Voya Nui or Metru Nui, where we had named volcanoes, forests, tons of locations, and knew where everything was); we haven't got any sense of the inhabitants of the island (what are they like? what's their culture? why should we care about them and want the toa to save them from the skull spiders?); and, overall, we don't really have a good feel for the setting.

 

If Lego wants fans to be invested in the story-- to really develop a connection to it the way so many did with Bionicle-- they need to answer some of these questions.  We need to be able to see Okoto, not just as a collection of different biomes in which the toa duke it out with their foes, but as a real, unique place.  We need to get to know these villagers, who they are, what they do, how their society or culture functions, and not just as generic innocent bystanders (with the single, replaceable Protector to guide the toa to their mask) that are meant to be saved by the toa.

 

2001 did this with the MNOLG, and it worked so well fans still rave about it-- Lego dropped us right in the middle of the world they were trying to use as their setting and let us run around and get to know it.  By the time the toa arrived, we were already invested-- we'd traded with these villagers, we'd fished and swam and gotten into all sorts of trouble all around this island, and we wanted it to be saved.  Makuta wasn't just a straw-villain lurking in the shadows, he presented a very real threat to things that we cared about, and we were able to really cheer for the toa as they took him down.

 

What else did we have in those early years? Comics, which gave us at least more characterization than these animations and gave us a reason to care about the heroes themselves and put ourselves in their shoes as they went on their quest.  We got to see the dangers the toa faced, not just as generic swarming of baddies, but unique challenges, and we felt like a story was being told.  We also got the website, which in 2002, I remember, ran an article on the front page with the headline "Local Wildlife on the Move".  Of course it was the Bohrok swarms, but there was nothing generic about this invasion-- it was a newspaper headline.  It was the inhabitants of Mata Nui warning each other about danger on the rise, and it was something that felt very real to us, something that we could see happening in the real world.  And it made the island of Mata Nui and its inhabitants more real, and gave us more of a connection to them.

 

That's what I'm hoping we get in 2015, besides these animations.  I want some vehicle for world-building, some form of media that can give us the details we need to start to care about Okoto and its villagers, and give us a setting that's not just a two-dimensional backdrop, but a fleshed out world that we can really feel.

[Saint-14]

They're trying to set up a new story for both old and new fans, so establiighing things quickly makes sense here.

 

Compared to 2001 there is still just as much mystery, regardless of how fast the content is coming out. To be fair, too, the majority of our memory is of the later years, where story content could be staggered due to the fanbase already having been established

[Iblis]

Compared to 2001 there is still just as much mystery, regardless of how fast the content is coming out.

 

Maybe so but I think mystery needs to be tempered by knowledge; it's one thing to have a great big unknown, another to have a tidbits of information alluding to a mystery whilst still painting a picture - not just a line of paint occasionally pointing at a big blank on the canvas (prefaced with evil bad? spider/bone/pohwar motifs)...

 

I like G2, but to say it has mystery is true, and not a bad point, but I think that the beauty of the mystery in the early years (you mentioned 2001) was because of the balance it had with world building and adventure~story :3

 

(I'm thinking of the Chroniclers company and MNOG 2 which was '03 so maybe I'm mixing things up a bit too much, but somewhat in my defense wouldn't you think G2 year 1 [ie 2015] should have comparatively more to it than 2001 considering the different position & foreknowledge TLG has?)

 

([seriously though I feel like I can discount MNOG 2 & my point on world building & story still holds?])

[graywolf89]

The quantity of content is definitely a reason why the story feels so rushed. However, I think the main reason is in how the story is set up: so far, the story lacks any true opponents for the Toa to fight. In the old days of G1, every new wave of Toa was accompanied by a new wave of fully defined villains, and vice-versa. Having villains that were more than just cardboard cutouts (like the skull spiders and LOSS) is really important, because it adds gravitas to the story by showing what the Toa are up against, and also served to further define the Toa by adding some character development through the challenges they face. Even the earlier Rahi, Rahkshi, and Vahki type villains were more developed story-wise than the skull spiders, since we had a good idea of what their powers were, who was controlling them, and where they came from. Despite their overall moderate characterization, each Toa team had their own struggles with every wave which at least gave them something to do--something that ensured the story wouldn't be covered in just thirteen and a half minutes of video.

 

By contrast, the new Toa have very weak villains in the form of the spiders and LOSS, both of which are poorly defined character wise and defeated easily in-story. This means two things.:

1. Since the villains are poorly developed, more focus is given on the Toa, who themselves aren't very defined. You don't really have much to work with in their characters. If LEGO was at least willing to sacrifice some story time in their video to focus on characterization through actual character dialog (much of the "story content" videos is just the narrator reminding Tahu of his duty to get the golden mask, and recapping the overall premise), the videos would be a lot more, should I say, fulfilling.

2. Since the villains are defeated so easily, there's not the slightest feeling of tension and everything is over too soon, both of which account for it feeling rushed.

 

 

There's only so much you can do with 9 90 second videos, but if lego had given them proper villains with motivations, them I'm sure it at least wouldn't feel as rushed as it does now. 

[Lyichir]

The quantity of content is definitely a reason why the story feels so rushed. However, I think the main reason is in how the story is set up: so far, the story lacks any true opponents for the Toa to fight. In the old days of G1, every new wave of Toa was accompanied by a new wave of fully defined villains, and vice-versa. Having villains that were more than just cardboard cutouts (like the skull spiders and LOSS) is really important, because it adds gravitas to the story by showing what the Toa are up against, and also served to further define the Toa by adding some character development through the challenges they face. Even the earlier Rahi, Rahkshi, and Vahki type villains were more developed story-wise than the skull spiders, since we had a good idea of what their powers were, who was controlling them, and where they came from. Despite their overall moderate characterization, each Toa team had their own struggles with every wave which at least gave them something to do--something that ensured the story wouldn't be covered in just thirteen and a half minutes of video.

 

By contrast, the new Toa have very weak villains in the form of the spiders and LOSS, both of which are poorly defined character wise and defeated easily in-story. This means two things.:

1. Since the villains are poorly developed, more focus is given on the Toa, who themselves aren't very defined. You don't really have much to work with in their characters. If LEGO was at least willing to sacrifice some story time in their video to focus on characterization through actual character dialog (much of the "story content" videos is just the narrator reminding Tahu of his duty to get the golden mask, and recapping the overall premise), the videos would be a lot more, should I say, fulfilling.

2. Since the villains are defeated so easily, there's not the slightest feeling of tension and everything is over too soon, both of which account for it feeling rushed.

 

 

There's only so much you can do with 9 90 second videos, but if lego had given them proper villains with motivations, them I'm sure it at least wouldn't feel as rushed as it does now.

I've bolded the most important statement in your argument. I want to call attention to that, because your whole argument is based on that, and it's completely incorrect.

 

The Toa Metru were not introduced alongside a range of fully defined villains. They were introduced six months earlier than the Vahki, with nothing to fight until then but the Morbuzakh (which didn't even appear as a set). In the U.S., the same applied to the Toa Hordika. In 2006 and 2007, the inverse was the case—villains were introduced with no real adversaries until the summer wave. You're looking at the Gen 1 story from many years later, but believe me, the wait for the summer wave in those years was BRUTAL (particularly 2004, since the only villain for the first half of the year had to be IMAGINED rather than ever being available to buy).

 

My point is that compared to those years, the Skull Spiders and Lord of Skull Spiders are GENEROUS. At least this year we actually HAVE foes for the Toa to face for the first six months of their release. And in the summer, the Skull Villains will presumably offer a TRUE villain wave on the scale of the Vahki. So again... have a little patience. The 2015 story is barely halfway done.

[Cressona]

^ I agree with Lyichir, the problem isn't that we don't have well-defined villains (the skull squad is coming!), or even that we don't have well-characterized heroes-- I think the animations, brief as they are, sketch out enough of a story and that, alongside the little bios we get on the website, are plenty to give us an idea of what each of the toa is like.

 

The problem is really our lack of setting-- we've got characters, in the form of our toa, and we've got the outline of a plot (the fight against the skull spiders to (presumably) save the villagers, get the golden masks, and reach the ancient city), but we don't have any meaningful backdrop against which that is taking place, just the very two-dimensional, flat world of Okoto, an island we know nearly nothing about; and the two-dimensional, cardboard-cutout villagers the toa are supposed to be saving.

 

It's one thing to know who our heroes (and eventually our villains) are; it's another matter entirely to be invested in the story in a meaningful way, and without the connection to the world and its inhabitants we had back at the beginning of G1, I think G2 will struggle to find a way to make that happen.

[UnderscoreChronix]

^ I agree with Lyichir, the problem isn't that we don't have well-defined villains (the skull squad is coming!), or even that we don't have well-characterized heroes-- I think the animations, brief as they are, sketch out enough of a story and that, alongside the little bios we get on the website, are plenty to give us an idea of what each of the toa is like.

 

The problem is really our lack of setting-- we've got characters, in the form of our toa, and we've got the outline of a plot (the fight against the skull spiders to (presumably) save the villagers, get the golden masks, and reach the ancient city), but we don't have any meaningful backdrop against which that is taking place, just the very two-dimensional, flat world of Okoto, an island we know nearly nothing about; and the two-dimensional, cardboard-cutout villagers the toa are supposed to be saving.

 

It's one thing to know who our heroes (and eventually our villains) are; it's another matter entirely to be invested in the story in a meaningful way, and without the connection to the world and its inhabitants we had back at the beginning of G1, I think G2 will struggle to find a way to make that happen.

It's funny, because the villagers literally are copy-paste two-dimensional cutouts. They didn't even bother giving them different poses or making them move.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

It's interesting because 2001 initially made exploring the island, meeting the denizens, learning about the creatures, the masks and the legend of Mata Nui the forefront of the story. It's reflected in the teasers, the majority of MNOG and even the website itself. It allows for a ton of world-building and solidifies the setting and lore drastically before we get to see the Toa do their thing. 

 

Since Bionicle is a pre-existing property, it makes sense not to do the same thing this generation (Plus, only the Mata Nui arc really took the time to do that, every other year kind of just put us in the heat of things). But it puts the main action and conflict in the foreground while the setting has less emphasis (I would say) than even the latter years of Bionicle as well. Sure we get an overview map, but it only lists the 6 regions + the city. There are no big landmarks, no history to the place. Add to that, we don't know any denizens that well and so far Okoto seems to be devoid of wildlife.

 

I don't think this kind of exploration of the setting makes the story more difficult to understand - I personally believe the biggest success of the original Bionicle years was because they took the time to guide you around and show you what made their world and lore so special and why it had to be protected. The island of Mata Nui WAS a character. Metru Nui and Voya Nui and Bara Magna weren't on that level but they still had plenty of story and character to them as well. Honestly, I still don't feel any real connection to the Toa's quest to protect the island of Okoto because I have no emotional interest in the island itself. 

 

-NotS

[Xabla]

I mean, why can't they just use things from Gen 1 like Mount Ihu?

[Lyichir]

I mean, why can't they just use things from Gen 1 like Mount Ihu?

Because there's no point. If the island is not in fact Mata Nui, then naming a mountain after one in the original story would be little more than fanservice (incoherent fanservice at that, since Mount Ihu's name referred to its general position above the Mata Nui Robot).

 

If they saw need to name landmarks on Okoto, better that they just give them new names. This could even be done without having to add new vocabulary (with terms like "Frigid Peaks", "Arid Waste", or "Smoldering Foothills"), eliminating both the need for fans to memorize names and the need to clear made-up names through legal.

[Sir Kohran]

 

I mean, why can't they just use things from Gen 1 like Mount Ihu?

Because there's no point. If the island is not in fact Mata Nui, then naming a mountain after one in the original story would be little more than fanservice (incoherent fanservice at that, since Mount Ihu's name referred to its general position above the Mata Nui Robot).

 

Ihu wasn't solely there to foreshadow the robot; it also provided a backdrop for Ko-Koro.

[Lyichir]

 

 

I mean, why can't they just use things from Gen 1 like Mount Ihu?

Because there's no point. If the island is not in fact Mata Nui, then naming a mountain after one in the original story would be little more than fanservice (incoherent fanservice at that, since Mount Ihu's name referred to its general position above the Mata Nui Robot).

 

 

Ihu wasn't solely there to foreshadow the robot; it also provided a backdrop for Ko-Koro.

 

No, but the NAME referred to its position over the robot. Without a robot, your options for "mountain names" are wide open, and there would be no point in using a previously meaningful name out of context except to blatantly exploit fan nostalgia. Seems to me it'd be better to give your icy peaks a different name if only to help the new theme come into its own rather than using the classic story as a crutch.

[Saint-14]

 

 

 

I mean, why can't they just use things from Gen 1 like Mount Ihu?

Because there's no point. If the island is not in fact Mata Nui, then naming a mountain after one in the original story would be little more than fanservice (incoherent fanservice at that, since Mount Ihu's name referred to its general position above the Mata Nui Robot).

 Ihu wasn't solely there to foreshadow the robot; it also provided a backdrop for Ko-Koro.

No, but the NAME referred to its position over the robot. Without a robot, your options for "mountain names" are wide open, and there would be no point in using a previously meaningful name out of context except to blatantly exploit fan nostalgia. Seems to me it'd be better to give your icy peaks a different name if only to help the new theme come into its own rather than using the classic story as a crutch.

Lyichir, I'm not sure that name referred to its position over the Mata Nui robot, but rather just being named after Ihu himself. Naming something Ihu on a person's face doesn't really help show where it is, do you know what I mean? Plus there's nothing wrong with a blatant nod to the old fanbase, since the only thing so far is the very obvious Vahi in each episode

 

Anyways, to get the topic back on track, I agree with some of the newer points brought up about the emotional investment into the island itself. The only connection we have to Okoto is through the Fire Village, and even then we barely got to see it. There were a few passing landmarks, but none that stood out

 

Essentially, the the story isn't rushed, but it isn't going slow either. It just isn't going into detail about the island or the mystery behind it

[Aanchir]

 

 

 

 

I mean, why can't they just use things from Gen 1 like Mount Ihu?

Because there's no point. If the island is not in fact Mata Nui, then naming a mountain after one in the original story would be little more than fanservice (incoherent fanservice at that, since Mount Ihu's name referred to its general position above the Mata Nui Robot).

 

 Ihu wasn't solely there to foreshadow the robot; it also provided a backdrop for Ko-Koro.

 

No, but the NAME referred to its position over the robot. Without a robot, your options for "mountain names" are wide open, and there would be no point in using a previously meaningful name out of context except to blatantly exploit fan nostalgia. Seems to me it'd be better to give your icy peaks a different name if only to help the new theme come into its own rather than using the classic story as a crutch.

 

Lyichir, I'm not sure that name referred to its position over the Mata Nui robot, but rather just being named after Ihu himself. Naming something Ihu on a person's face doesn't really help show where it is, do you know what I mean? Plus there's nothing wrong with a blatant nod to the old fanbase, since the only thing so far is the very obvious Vahi in each episode

 

Anyways, to get the topic back on track, I agree with some of the newer points brought up about the emotional investment into the island itself. The only connection we have to Okoto is through the Fire Village, and even then we barely got to see it. There were a few passing landmarks, but none that stood out

 

Essentially, the the story isn't rushed, but it isn't going slow either. It just isn't going into detail about the island or the mystery behind it

 

In the story, the mountain was named after a character, as established in 2004. But in real life, it was named after the Maori word for "nose", because it covered Mata Nui's nose, the same way the Mangai Volcano covered his mouth, Kauae Bay covered his chin, and Lake Naho covered his left eye.

 

All the Mata Nui place names were deliberate references to the true nature of both the island and the great spirit. Using them again in a new context where they don't have that second meaning would cheapen them in my opinion.

[Xabla]

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, why can't they just use things from Gen 1 like Mount Ihu?

Because there's no point. If the island is not in fact Mata Nui, then naming a mountain after one in the original story would be little more than fanservice (incoherent fanservice at that, since Mount Ihu's name referred to its general position above the Mata Nui Robot).

 

 Ihu wasn't solely there to foreshadow the robot; it also provided a backdrop for Ko-Koro.

 

No, but the NAME referred to its position over the robot. Without a robot, your options for "mountain names" are wide open, and there would be no point in using a previously meaningful name out of context except to blatantly exploit fan nostalgia. Seems to me it'd be better to give your icy peaks a different name if only to help the new theme come into its own rather than using the classic story as a crutch.

 

Lyichir, I'm not sure that name referred to its position over the Mata Nui robot, but rather just being named after Ihu himself. Naming something Ihu on a person's face doesn't really help show where it is, do you know what I mean? Plus there's nothing wrong with a blatant nod to the old fanbase, since the only thing so far is the very obvious Vahi in each episode

 

Anyways, to get the topic back on track, I agree with some of the newer points brought up about the emotional investment into the island itself. The only connection we have to Okoto is through the Fire Village, and even then we barely got to see it. There were a few passing landmarks, but none that stood out

 

Essentially, the the story isn't rushed, but it isn't going slow either. It just isn't going into detail about the island or the mystery behind it

 

In the story, the mountain was named after a character, as established in 2004. But in real life, it was named after the Maori word for "nose", because it covered Mata Nui's nose, the same way the Mangai Volcano covered his mouth, Kauae Bay covered his chin, and Lake Naho covered his left eye.

 

All the Mata Nui place names were deliberate references to the true nature of both the island and the great spirit. Using them again in a new context where they don't have that second meaning would cheapen them in my opinion.

 

Yes, since they were planning the GSR from the beginning.

[Lyichir]

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, why can't they just use things from Gen 1 like Mount Ihu?

Because there's no point. If the island is not in fact Mata Nui, then naming a mountain after one in the original story would be little more than fanservice (incoherent fanservice at that, since Mount Ihu's name referred to its general position above the Mata Nui Robot).

 

 Ihu wasn't solely there to foreshadow the robot; it also provided a backdrop for Ko-Koro.

 

No, but the NAME referred to its position over the robot. Without a robot, your options for "mountain names" are wide open, and there would be no point in using a previously meaningful name out of context except to blatantly exploit fan nostalgia. Seems to me it'd be better to give your icy peaks a different name if only to help the new theme come into its own rather than using the classic story as a crutch.

 

Lyichir, I'm not sure that name referred to its position over the Mata Nui robot, but rather just being named after Ihu himself. Naming something Ihu on a person's face doesn't really help show where it is, do you know what I mean? Plus there's nothing wrong with a blatant nod to the old fanbase, since the only thing so far is the very obvious Vahi in each episode

 

Anyways, to get the topic back on track, I agree with some of the newer points brought up about the emotional investment into the island itself. The only connection we have to Okoto is through the Fire Village, and even then we barely got to see it. There were a few passing landmarks, but none that stood out

 

Essentially, the the story isn't rushed, but it isn't going slow either. It just isn't going into detail about the island or the mystery behind it

 

In the story, the mountain was named after a character, as established in 2004. But in real life, it was named after the Maori word for "nose", because it covered Mata Nui's nose, the same way the Mangai Volcano covered his mouth, Kauae Bay covered his chin, and Lake Naho covered his left eye.

 

All the Mata Nui place names were deliberate references to the true nature of both the island and the great spirit. Using them again in a new context where they don't have that second meaning would cheapen them in my opinion.

 

What he said. Most Bionicle place names that were "named" after characters had those meanings retroactively assigned to them many years later. The character Ihu was not even conceptualized when the mountain was originally named in 2001. Greg retroactively created characters for most of the Mata Nui locations to be named after starting in 2004, apparently because the Turaga weren't creative enough to name anything except by naming it after someone they knew.

 

This is yet another reason why more descriptive place names would be superior to names from obscure languages in the new story. It'd eliminate the risk that the meanings of those names would be lost in favor of a stupid made-up namesake. A name like "Frozen Peaks" makes the reason for the name self-evident.

[Aanchir]

 

 

Lyichir, I'm not sure that name referred to its position over the Mata Nui robot, but rather just being named after Ihu himself. Naming something Ihu on a person's face doesn't really help show where it is, do you know what I mean? Plus there's nothing wrong with a blatant nod to the old fanbase, since the only thing so far is the very obvious Vahi in each episode

 

Anyways, to get the topic back on track, I agree with some of the newer points brought up about the emotional investment into the island itself. The only connection we have to Okoto is through the Fire Village, and even then we barely got to see it. There were a few passing landmarks, but none that stood out

 

Essentially, the the story isn't rushed, but it isn't going slow either. It just isn't going into detail about the island or the mystery behind it

In the story, the mountain was named after a character, as established in 2004. But in real life, it was named after the Maori word for "nose", because it covered Mata Nui's nose, the same way the Mangai Volcano covered his mouth, Kauae Bay covered his chin, and Lake Naho covered his left eye.

 

All the Mata Nui place names were deliberate references to the true nature of both the island and the great spirit. Using them again in a new context where they don't have that second meaning would cheapen them in my opinion.

 

What he said. Most Bionicle place names that were "named" after characters had those meanings retroactively assigned to them many years later. The character Ihu was not even conceptualized when the mountain was originally named in 2001. Greg retroactively created characters for most of the Mata Nui locations to be named after starting in 2004, apparently because the Turaga weren't creative enough to name anything except by naming it after someone they knew.

 

This is yet another reason why more descriptive place names would be superior to names from obscure languages in the new story. It'd eliminate the risk that the meanings of those names would be lost in favor of a stupid made-up namesake. A name like "Frozen Peaks" makes the reason for the name self-evident.

 

Of course! Because the Protector of Jungle was a big fan of Frozen and decided to name a mountain range after it in honor of all those good memories!

 

[Sir Kohran]

 

 

All the Mata Nui place names were deliberate references to the true nature of both the island and the great spirit. Using them again in a new context where they don't have that second meaning would cheapen them in my opinion.

 

Let's not forget that for quite a few years, to the fans, they were just place names without an apparent second meaning. Reusing them for just that first purpose would be alright, I think.

[fishers64]

I think it what the place name is would be somewhat of an inferior concern to the fact that there are little in the forms of place names at all. There's six unamed shrines, six elemental areas, and the Ancient City. But what is really there? A jungle village in the trees? Is the Water village underwater really? I don't get a good feel for the locational details of Okoto. Giving a name to at least a few of the story-affecting locations, and/or allowing us to explore and/or set a story there would be a start.

 

Instead they just give a few rudimentary details of a few places and expect to be enough. Giving a place a name says "this place is important". Right now they haven't given the places any names, so I'm not sure how important they are.  

[Aanchir]

I think it what the place name is would be somewhat of an inferior concern to the fact that there are little in the forms of place names at all. There's six unamed shrines, six elemental areas, and the Ancient City. But what is really there? A jungle village in the trees? Is the Water village underwater really? I don't get a good feel for the locational details of Okoto. Giving a name to at least a few of the story-affecting locations, and/or allowing us to explore and/or set a story there would be a start.

 

Instead they just give a few rudimentary details of a few places and expect to be enough. Giving a place a name says "this place is important". Right now they haven't given the places any names, so I'm not sure how important they are.

Well, they actually HAVE given a lot of Okoto's locations names. "Region of Ice", "Village of Earth", "Temple of Fire", "Temple of Time", etc. They haven't told us a tremendous amount of information about these places, but that has nothing to do with them not having names.

 

And to be completely fair, the info we have about Okoto's regions is about as in-depth as the info on this page. What 2015 decidedly lacks is an immersive experience like the Mata Nui Online Game that lets you see those locations firsthand from the perspective of one of the island's villagers. Games like that are where most of our most in-depth information about the villages, like their local sports, culture, and industry, actually came from.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Aanchir

[Iblis]

Ahem:

 

Well they both have a map of the overall island, & I'm picking Fire as comparison because lolfireattention, I've taken liberties with the formatting as with both Generations they are spread across a number of pages.

I haven't covered everything but I hope this gives the gist of it; as far as I can think ATM the only other big difference is that G1 mentions a bit about Kini Nui, & G2 has a bit about the (Lord of) Skull Spiders.

 

 

G1:

 

Ta-Koro (pictured [zoomed in map view])

Turaga Vakama lives in Ta-Koro. Located in the Shadow of the Mangai volcano, the village looks like a collection of miniature volcanoes. It even has a small lava stream for heating.

 

In the area around the village, burning lava streams flow like rivers down the mountain.

Sometimes the main volcano bursts open and rains pure fire.

 

 

MATORAN FROM TA-KORO: Jala (pictured)

Jala's athletic ability and no-nonsense manner make him the obvious choice to stand on Vakama's right side. He longs to explore all of Mata Nui, but he understands that his fellow Ta-Koronan do not like to travel. The leader of Jala's clan, Lhii, is the greatest surfer Mata Nui has known since Tahu. Jala has a lot to live up to, but he is dedicated, studies well, and works hard to protect his village.

(A map shows that Ta-Koro is his home)

 

 

Vakama (pictured)

Turaga Vakama is the holder of the Great Firestaff and protector of Tahu's legend. He is famous for his quick temper and immense courage. Vakama doesn't mess around: he has no time for nonsense and practical jokes, but his boldness could get him into trouble.

 

Vakama's mask is the Kanohi Huna and his tool is the ancient fire staff.

(A map shows that Ta-Koro is his home)

 

Huna (pictured)

The Noble Mask of Concealment; allows the user to turn invisible.

Power: Concealment

Mask Colours: (6 different version/colour here, details changed for each Turaga who owns it)

Colour: Bright Orange

Worn by: Vakama

 

Noble Masks do not possess as much raw energy as the Great Masks of Power, but they too are vital to the Toa's quest. The Noble Masks can be worn by the ^[sic] both the Toa and Turaga, and each Toa must collect six Noble Masks.

 

 

TOA OF FIRE: Tahu (pictured)

Tahu is the fiercest of the six Toa, and the most feared--you don't want to get into a fight with Tahu if you can help it.

 

He is most at home in the hot molten world of the Mangai Volcano where he surfs on lava flows, using his sword of flames to cut through rocks and keep the lava moving towards the ocean.

 

His flaming temper can make him hotheaded and irrational sometimes. He has the least patience of the Toa and often jumps into a situation without thinking, which can get him, and the other Toa, into trouble!

(A map shows that Ta-Koro is his home)

 

Hau (pictured)

The Great Mask of Shielding; provides protection against any attack the use is aware of, but not against ambush.

Power: Shielding; 

Mask Colours: (9 different version/colour here, details changed for each Toa who owns it, + Infected*, + Gold + Silver)  

Colour: Bright Red

Worn by: Tahu

 

Each Toa must collect six Great Masks of Power to defeat Makuta and fulfill their destiny. Each mask grants the wearer new power and wisdom.

 

(Additionally when you have Infected selected:

Hau

When Kanohi are taintedd by Makuta, they become "infected masks." ^[sic] Infected masks appear scarred, pitted, and rusted. Wearers become slaves of Makuta, and remain so until the mask is removed.

Colour: Infected

Worn by: Any creature on Mata Nui

)

 

 

 

G2:

 

REGION OF FIRE (pictured)

The Protectors wear sacred Elemental Masks that have been passed down through the generations along with the Prophecy of Heroes, which foretells the coming of the heroic Toa. In their wisdom, the Protectors must guide the heroes on their quest. The Protector's favorite environment is a volcanic mountain.

 

 

PROTECTOR OF FIRE (pictured)

The Protectors wear sacred Elemental Masks that have been passed down through the generations from father to son along with the Prophecy of Heroes, which foretells the coming of Tahu and his allies. In their wisdom, the Protectors must guide the heroes on their quest.

 

PROTECTOR MASK OF FIRE (pictured)

Forged by Ekimu ages ago and passed on through the generations.

 

ELEMENTAL FIRE BLASTER (pictured)

The Fire Blaster is good for discouraging skull spiders... and lighting campfires.

 

FLAME SWORDS (pictured)

Powered by the element of fire, the flame swords are fierce weapons.

 

WATCH OUT FOR THE CREEPY SKULL SPIDER (pictured)

The vicious skull spiders clutch onto the faces of their victims to control their minds.

 

MASK POP-OFF TRIGGER (pictured)

Be careful not to lose your mask in battle!

 

 

TAHU - MASTER OF FIRE (pictured)

Tahu is hot-tempered and brave. He likes to excel and thinks of himself as the most heroic of the heroes. His forgetful nature has gotten him into trouble at time, but Tahu seems to be born under a very lucky star, and somehow always come out on top.

 

Powers: Fire control and resistance to heat.

 

FIRE BLADES (pictured)

Fueled by the element of fire these powerful blades strike fear into the hearts of Tahu's enemies.

 

GOLDEN SWORDS (pictured)

Tahu's golden side arms. Perfect for delivering a quick slash while surfing.

 

LAVA SURFBOARD (pictured)

Being resistant to heat, this unique board enables Tahu to surf Okoto's mightiest volcanoes.

 

GOLDEN MASK OF FIRE (pictured)

As foretold by the Prophecy of Heroes, this mask was waiting for the Toa of Fire to claim.

 

MASK OF FIRE (pictured)

This is the mask Tahu wore when he first arrived on Okoto.

 

WATCH OUT FOR THE CREEPY SKULL SPIDER (pictured)

The vicious skull spiders clutch onto the faces of their victims to control their minds.

 

MASK POP-OFF TRIGGER (pictured)

Be careful not to lose your mask in battle!

 

POWER UP (pictured)

 

COMIC (10 frames, good quality)

 

***

So there are very roughly: 500~ words about G1 Fire~, & 350~ words about G2 Fire~, although G2 has more pictures, many of them are of zoomed in aspects, but then again I don't think there were any close pictures of the Koros in G1 - it's still a map view - where as G2 does show pictures of the villages themselves.

 

There are other things around as well, I suggest you all have a look at both, the old and new.

 

I haven't touched the videos in either as I know G2 has the 9 episodes, + three-ish? different ads etc. & I can't remember how many videos G1 had in '01 - off to YouTube!

 

I personally think that there are a number of differences which one might be weighted differently (hehe), but that G2 could really do with it's own version or analogue to MNOG etc.

 

EDIT: G1 also has extensive lists of collectibles as well. Otherwise I just fixed a few of my errors, I've tried to copy+paste were possible, but a few a manually retyped; there are some errors I faithfully reproduced

Oh yeah, and where you see "colour" it was "color" I just ... I like my pseudo-British spelling >,<"

Edited February 15, 2015 by Iblis

[The Hordika]

*Sigh* Usually this is a touchy subject with most fans, but it does feel rushed. I know it's supposed to appeal to kids, but when I was a kid, I LOVED Bionicle, Throwbots, and all other stories. But then again, think back to 2001, when Mata Nui was shrouded in mystery. It felt strange and lonely, and maybe that's what Okoto is going for. Start off lonely and empty, then take off with excellent story, fun characters, and a epic sets.

 

But then again, there are no Kanohi this year. That sucks

[Lyichir]

*Sigh* Usually this is a touchy subject with most fans, but it does feel rushed. I know it's supposed to appeal to kids, but when I was a kid, I LOVED Bionicle, Throwbots, and all other stories. But then again, think back to 2001, when Mata Nui was shrouded in mystery. It felt strange and lonely, and maybe that's what Okoto is going for. Start off lonely and empty, then take off with excellent story, fun characters, and a epic sets.

 

But then again, there are no Kanohi this year. That sucks

There are masks of power, which are pretty much the same thing. Unless you mean the collectible Kanohi packs?

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

I feel, though the weboside-thingies did come across as quite fast-paced, there is still a way to get the wanted depth,

 

the Toa are currently kinda racing through their quest, given how skull grinder wants to, like, destroy okoto or something? idk, he's not gonna be nice.

 

but if there's one thing i can safely assume, it's that they won't island-hop on us. not in the three planned years anyway.

 

so we may get our MNOG-Analogue in year two? maybe? or at least more info. hopefully...

[The Hordika]

 

*Sigh* Usually this is a touchy subject with most fans, but it does feel rushed. I know it's supposed to appeal to kids, but when I was a kid, I LOVED Bionicle, Throwbots, and all other stories. But then again, think back to 2001, when Mata Nui was shrouded in mystery. It felt strange and lonely, and maybe that's what Okoto is going for. Start off lonely and empty, then take off with excellent story, fun characters, and a epic sets.

 

But then again, there are no Kanohi this year. That sucks

There are masks of power, which are pretty much the same thing. Unless you mean the collectible Kanohi packs?

 

Well, what I mean is, there are Kanohi masks, but

1. The term Kanohi is pretty much gone

2. There is no variety. With even the Tohunga of 2001 we had different colored masks, then in 2003 the completely new types of Kanohi besides Hau, Pakari, Kaukau, etc. Now, we have the Toa(Masters) masks, and the recolorations of the Protector masks.

[Lyichir]

 

 

*Sigh* Usually this is a touchy subject with most fans, but it does feel rushed. I know it's supposed to appeal to kids, but when I was a kid, I LOVED Bionicle, Throwbots, and all other stories. But then again, think back to 2001, when Mata Nui was shrouded in mystery. It felt strange and lonely, and maybe that's what Okoto is going for. Start off lonely and empty, then take off with excellent story, fun characters, and a epic sets.

 

But then again, there are no Kanohi this year. That sucks

There are masks of power, which are pretty much the same thing. Unless you mean the collectible Kanohi packs?

 

Well, what I mean is, there are Kanohi masks, but

1. The term Kanohi is pretty much gone

2. There is no variety. With even the Tohunga of 2001 we had different colored masks, then in 2003 the completely new types of Kanohi besides Hau, Pakari, Kaukau, etc. Now, we have the Toa(Masters) masks, and the recolorations of the Protector masks.

 

...And the gold Toa masks, and the blended Toa masks, and the Skull Spiders, and the masks of the Skull Villains, and the Mask of Creation. There are 30 unique masks this year—more than there were in ANY year of Bionicle after the end of mask packs in 2002. And that's not even counting special edition masks like the upcoming Trans. Fluor. Reddish Orange Mask of Fire or the clear Tahu mask from NYCC.

[Saint-14]

 

 

 

*Sigh* Usually this is a touchy subject with most fans, but it does feel rushed. I know it's supposed to appeal to kids, but when I was a kid, I LOVED Bionicle, Throwbots, and all other stories. But then again, think back to 2001, when Mata Nui was shrouded in mystery. It felt strange and lonely, and maybe that's what Okoto is going for. Start off lonely and empty, then take off with excellent story, fun characters, and a epic sets. But then again, there are no Kanohi this year. That sucks

There are masks of power, which are pretty much the same thing. Unless you mean the collectible Kanohi packs?

Well, what I mean is, there are Kanohi masks, but1. The term Kanohi is pretty much gone2. There is no variety. With even the Tohunga of 2001 we had different colored masks, then in 2003 the completely new types of Kanohi besides Hau, Pakari, Kaukau, etc. Now, we have the Toa(Masters) masks, and the recolorations of the Protector masks.

...And the gold Toa masks, and the blended Toa masks, and the Skull Spiders, and the masks of the Skull Villains, and the Mask of Creation. There are 30 unique masks this year—more than there were in ANY year of Bionicle after the end of mask packs in 2002. And that's not even counting special edition masks like the upcoming Trans. Fluor. Reddish Orange Mask of Fire or the clear Tahu mask from NYCC.

There may be 30 unique masks, but in terms of unique mask moulds (molds?) there are around 11 or so. Now, in 2001 there were onlt about 12 moulds, but there were 80+ unqiue variations.

 

Yes, currently there are more unique masks than there were after the 2002 mask packs, but the customization is all but gone. Want a blue Tahu mask? Nope. Need a white Gali mask for a moc? Non-existant. Plus the unqiue names are gone, too. No more are the days of the Huna, the Akaku, the Pakari. Instead we have Mask of Jungle, or Mask of Skull Spiders

 

tl;dr, the variety of masks is good to see again, but this being the first year of Gen 2 compared to the first year of Gen 1 it's hard to see the positives

 

Anyways, back on track to the topic, perhaps if we had some additional comics or books along with the webisodes then it wouldn't feel as rushed. Even in 2001 the MNOG was spread out with new content each month, requiring you to keep track of where things were and what to accomplish with each piecd you acquired in the game. So far we only have a mobile game which has some good content, but the puzzle and story element has been replaced with a 'smash-em-all' gimmick

[The Hordika]

 

 

 

*Sigh* Usually this is a touchy subject with most fans, but it does feel rushed. I know it's supposed to appeal to kids, but when I was a kid, I LOVED Bionicle, Throwbots, and all other stories. But then again, think back to 2001, when Mata Nui was shrouded in mystery. It felt strange and lonely, and maybe that's what Okoto is going for. Start off lonely and empty, then take off with excellent story, fun characters, and a epic sets.

 

But then again, there are no Kanohi this year. That sucks

There are masks of power, which are pretty much the same thing. Unless you mean the collectible Kanohi packs?

 

Well, what I mean is, there are Kanohi masks, but

1. The term Kanohi is pretty much gone

2. There is no variety. With even the Tohunga of 2001 we had different colored masks, then in 2003 the completely new types of Kanohi besides Hau, Pakari, Kaukau, etc. Now, we have the Toa(Masters) masks, and the recolorations of the Protector masks.

 

...And the gold Toa masks, and the blended Toa masks, and the Skull Spiders, and the masks of the Skull Villains, and the Mask of Creation. There are 30 unique masks this year—more than there were in ANY year of Bionicle after the end of mask packs in 2002. And that's not even counting special edition masks like the upcoming Trans. Fluor. Reddish Orange Mask of Fire or the clear Tahu mask from NYCC.

 

As you said, there are only recolorations. All I'm saying is, I would like more than a few blended masks and Skull Spiders

[Anapouri]

One of the things I like to think about is that it's not really rushed, but it's more of them trying to get something back onto the market with a lot of material and very limited time. At least that's how I view it. And they're trying to put a lot of material out there at once to try to hook people back into it. It may be a bit rushed, and I agree because you know...oh hey, they're here. Suddenly going to get these masks. They seem to have no confrontation aside from the skull spiders on getting the golden masks, then bam, Lord of Skull Spiders, then bam cue upcoming Second Wave in the summer, but that might be because they're trying to play in on the idea of making your own adventures with the sets instead of trying to rely entirely on a prewritten, precognitive story they define for you. You know, you have the set. What does YOUR Toa have to go through to get that golden mask? Perhaps Tahu runs into some sort of fire beast you build while having to protect the Protector and fend off the skull spiders at the same time? Who knows. There's a lot that goes into marketing and such.

I do think that I'd be more fufilled with it if they had released some beasts like they did with the infected Rahi back in Gen 1. They needed some Skull Spider manipulated rahi that were protecting the golden masks or something that the Toa had to fight off to get to their goal. I also think the Lord of Skull Spiders could have been a bit more elaborate, but that's just me.

Either way, I think the story will be fine. I'm sure they'll start fleshing it out more because it seems like that's what they really want to do. 

[The Hordika]

One of the things I like to think about is that it's not really rushed, but it's more of them trying to get something back onto the market with a lot of material and very limited time. At least that's how I view it. And they're trying to put a lot of material out there at once to try to hook people back into it. It may be a bit rushed, and I agree because you know...oh hey, they're here. Suddenly going to get these masks. They seem to have no confrontation aside from the skull spiders on getting the golden masks, then bam, Lord of Skull Spiders, then bam cue upcoming Second Wave in the summer, but that might be because they're trying to play in on the idea of making your own adventures with the sets instead of trying to rely entirely on a prewritten, precognitive story they define for you. You know, you have the set. What does YOUR Toa have to go through to get that golden mask? Perhaps Tahu runs into some sort of fire beast you build while having to protect the Protector and fend off the skull spiders at the same time? Who knows. There's a lot that goes into marketing and such.

 

I do think that I'd be more fufilled with it if they had released some beasts like they did with the infected Rahi back in Gen 1. They needed some Skull Spider manipulated rahi that were protecting the golden masks or something that the Toa had to fight off to get to their goal. I also think the Lord of Skull Spiders could have been a bit more elaborate, but that's just me.

 

Either way, I think the story will be fine. I'm sure they'll start fleshing it out more because it seems like that's what they really want to do. 

I completely agree. Generation 2 isn't....bad per say, but disappointing compared to the older Rahi, Rahkshi, and Bohrok villians. The Skull Spiders seem out of place. They could be more important but it just seems they're like a Spooky Scary Legion of Spiders. Visorak were relatively the same, but more elaborate. They could capture and nearly kill the Toa Metru, whereas the Skull Spiders attach to your face and can get easily knocked off. Could've turned out better, but we'll see how it goes this year. Who knows? Maybe the story will get deeper and the feel better. We can only hope.

 

Oh, and that Fire-Beast idea is awesome

[Iblis]

[...] that might be because they're trying to play in on the idea of making your own adventures with the sets instead of trying to rely entirely on a prewritten, precognitive story they define for you. You know, you have the set. What does YOUR Toa have to go through to get that golden mask? Perhaps Tahu runs into some sort of fire beast you build while having to protect the Protector and fend off the skull spiders at the same time? Who knows. There's a lot that goes into marketing and such.

 

I do think that I'd be more fufilled with it if they had released some beasts like they did with the infected Rahi back in Gen 1. They needed some Skull Spider manipulated rahi that were protecting the golden masks or something that the Toa had to fight off to get to their goal. I also think the Lord of Skull Spiders could have been a bit more elaborate, but that's just me.

 

Either way, I think the story will be fine. I'm sure they'll start fleshing it out more because it seems like that's what they really want to do. 

 

I'd thought about the make-your-own-adventure route a bit, and maybe having some other creatures to provide a bit of contrast/etc for the Skull Spiders...

 

IMO there doesn't seem to be that much difference in content on the sites; there's roughly the same amount of content exempting info on collectibles, & I don't think the ads added that much in words ... I think there was a different style of writing used more in G1 where as G2 feels more ... well I feel like I'm reading a very vague outline, where as the vague snippet in G1 gives me the feeling there is more to say, but it's just a snippet if ya know what I mean? :S

 

I suppose that's just aprt of trying to leave the characters open so owners feel "freer" to make there own adventure~story etc, so yeah... maybe TLG is onto something.

[Anapouri]

I'd like to point out on the upcoming Wave 2, it seems the golden masks are being stolen from the Toa, so....while they've just gotten their masks of power, it seems like there's definately some building, story wise, going on.

[Iblis]

it seems like there's definately some building, story wise, going on.

 

Well yes...

 

We still really only have a smartphone bash'em'up games, & website to go on until August; we've now seen 5~6 sets that won't be released until then, & maybe there adds will start coming out a bit before then ^{(I strongly doubt it'd be more than a month earlier...)} but as the 9th minisode ends with actual credits, it looks like they were supposed to spread out until around the time they started advertising the Skull Antagonists, sure many will have seen images from eithe: London, Nuremberg, or New York, or some combination there of; but in G1: January, 2001, they had MNOG out; which both told a nice little 'story' adventure, and did a lot of world building.

 

MNOG was updated monthly. Presently we've already been given all 9 episodes (by 'accident'), & yeah they are being otherwise released every now and again ... but they don't add anywhere near as much as MNOG.

 

Over a decade latter one would think they would be able to offer more for less effort, no?

 

I don't think many people that have actually thought about this for long have doubted 2015 is going to be getting story building & has had a bit, but it still looks like it's going to be less than '01 whichever way we cut it. :/

[Anapouri]

I haven't even seen that far yet because they aren't in English it seems. I found the other languages though.

[The Hordika]

 

it seems like there's definately some building, story wise, going on.

 

Well yes...

 

We still really only have a smartphone bash'em'up games, & website to go on until August; we've now seen 5~6 sets that won't be released until then, & maybe there adds will start coming out a bit before then ^{(I strongly doubt it'd be more than a month earlier...)} but as the 9th minisode ends with actual credits, it looks like they were supposed to spread out until around the time they started advertising the Skull Antagonists, sure many will have seen images from eithe: London, Nuremberg, or New York, or some combination there of; but in G1: January, 2001, they had MNOG out; which both told a nice little 'story' adventure, and did a lot of world building.

 

MNOG was updated monthly. Presently we've already been given all 9 episodes (by 'accident'), & yeah they are being otherwise released every now and again ... but they don't add anywhere near as much as MNOG.

 

Over a decade latter one would think they would be able to offer more for less effort, no?

 

I don't think many people that have actually thought about this for long have doubted 2015 is going to be getting story building & has had a bit, but it still looks like it's going to be less than '01 whichever way we cut it. :/

 

As far as the Mask stealing aspect goes, I like it. I was a fan of the Bohrok and Rahi trailers where the Rahi took the mask, or where the Bohrok knocked of the mask and launched the Krana. I am hopeful for 2015. Though I don't like the CCBS builds much, 2001 had the same thing going when you think about it. The Mata were pretty much being built with the Throwbots style of build, though a little streamlined. Maybe as the years go on, we'll get a more complex Technic build(I love the Technic line) and deeper story, similar to 2003 and 2007-08 where we kind of realized how much was at stake and how dangerous Makuta was. 

 

Oh, and I still want that Makuta Titan(besides the 2003 version)