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THEORY: Plausible connection between Bionicle G1 and G2!


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As I said before, even 2001 isn't really far enough ago to count as an "ancient era". If you want to claim that that is their meaning, then you are twisting words at least as badly as me interpreting "reboot" by its 2009 meaning. ;)

 

...or they were using words that played into the mythical feeling of Bionicle? Saying "fourteen years ago" gives a completely different feeling from "ancient era". Honestly, you're just looking for ways to either legitimize thinking they somehow meant that they did the world's stupidest story move and tied ten years of baggage to this line or delegitimize interpreting "it's a reboot" as "it's a reboot". It doesn't even make sense; either we insist "ancient era" literally means G1 was in the past of G2 and we insist "it's a reboot" literally means "it's a reboot", or we say "ancient era" just means 2001 (suggesting the two lines aren't connected) and we say "it's a reboot" could mean "it's a continuation" (suggesting the two lines are connected)? Your line of thought here only leads to contradictions, and if there's one thing Phoenix Wright taught me, it's that all contradictions mean someone's twisting the facts.

 

(As for "using reboot by its 2009 definition", in 2009, they didn't just use the word reboot, they used the term "soft reboot". They recognized what they were doing wasn't a true reboot, and besides, it failed anyway; the line crashed a year later. I'd like to think LEGO can learn from their mistakes.)

I wasn't saying that we need to take both statements as their most likely form - I know that leads to a contradiction.

 

I was merely pointing out that from either side of the argument, you must interpret one of the two statements in an unlikely way in order to have a consistent position (I must twist "reboot", you must twist "ancient era"). There is somewhat of an equivalence between the two sides of the argument in that sense.

 

I will admit that my only tactic is to cast doubt upon your evidence, with an aim to show that it alone is not absolute proof against a continuation. This is because I know that your argument for a hard reboot is the far stronger argument (especially due to Occam's Razor always siding with reboot in cases like this, as Ballom says), and I do not have the ability or evidence to even attempt to disprove it (at least for now).

 

However I think you are unfairly harsh on continuation theories, because they need not attach any real baggage to the new stories. (Many proposed links are not very sound, I'll admit.) I could suggest a theory where:

-The G2 Toa are the same G1 Toa (we know they have memory loss so do not have to ever remember the events of G1 - therefore the story team do not have to mention them and new fans do not get confused)

-All other characters are new (Makuta is just a name that G2 Makuta's parents heard in a story and liked the sound of)

-Er, that's it

See - functionally indistinguishable from a hard reboot to new fans, but pleasing old fans who want to continue the adventures of the characters they knew in 2001. :)

Edited by Xelphene
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I wasn't saying that we need to take both statements as their most likely form - I know that leads to a contradiction.

I was merely pointing out that from either side of the argument, you must interpret one of the two statements in an unlikely way in order to have a consistent position (I must twist "reboot", you must twist "ancient era"). There is somewhat of an equivalence in that sense.

 

See, I'm not seeing the equivalence between interpreting "ancient era" as "2001" and interpreting "reboot" as "continuation" when one is an exaggeration of a period of time and the other is turning a word into its antonym. This is the second time in this topic someone has tried to make it seem like this argument is on a level playing field when it's not through false equivalence.

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About the 'reboot' wording, too; has this ever been confirmed as hard or soft reboot? I've only seen the term reboot being tossed around on the forums, but I haven't seen any actual confirmation as to the the actual meaning, or to what Lego has actually said on the matter

Does anybody have some links? It would be nice to see some hard evidence rather than just all of us flapping our gums without any essence behind our words :P

 

 

The only people who have wanted to split it up into "soft reboot" "hard reboot" "crunchy reboot with a caramel filling" are those who want to misconstrue that in whichever direction best suits them, which usually results in those "theories" that try to pull together as many of the aspects of G1 Bionicle as confusingly as possible to make something that just barely fits into the G2 Bionicle's story.

 

 

The only time I have ever seen a non-hard reboot, it was specifically called a soft reboot at the time. Believe it or not, the whole "soft reboot" thing doesn't actually happen all that often. I may even be remembering that the term was coined specifically to describe the 2009 story. Therefore, when someone says "reboot" without putting a Mohs scale number next to it, it's pretty safe to say they probably mean the actual reboot kind of reboot.

Even then, where is the reboot info coming from? That is what my original question post was asking, since I've only seen it on the forums being used, never officially stated by Lego themselves

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About the 'reboot' wording, too; has this ever been confirmed as hard or soft reboot? I've only seen the term reboot being tossed around on the forums, but I haven't seen any actual confirmation as to the the actual meaning, or to what Lego has actually said on the matter

Does anybody have some links? It would be nice to see some hard evidence rather than just all of us flapping our gums without any essence behind our words :P

 

The only people who have wanted to split it up into "soft reboot" "hard reboot" "crunchy reboot with a caramel filling" are those who want to misconstrue that in whichever direction best suits them, which usually results in those "theories" that try to pull together as many of the aspects of G1 Bionicle as confusingly as possible to make something that just barely fits into the G2 Bionicle's story.

 

The only time I have ever seen a non-hard reboot, it was specifically called a soft reboot at the time. Believe it or not, the whole "soft reboot" thing doesn't actually happen all that often. I may even be remembering that the term was coined specifically to describe the 2009 story. Therefore, when someone says "reboot" without putting a Mohs scale number next to it, it's pretty safe to say they probably mean the actual reboot kind of reboot.

Even then, where is the reboot info coming from? That is what my original question post was asking, since I've only seen it on the forums being used, never officially stated by Lego themselves

 

Right from the horse's mouth.

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If you make it so that events happened but everyone has amnesia and no one talks about it, then why does it matter that those events happened at all? It only unnecessarily complicates things over the alternative of them not happening.

~B~

Off the top of my head:

It gives the story extra depth for those who like stories with depth.

It means certain details Toa origin stories already exist for those who wish to know, so G2 would not have to gain complexity by inventing new ones.

To some people it just "feels nicer" if the G2 Toa are the characters they grew to love in 2001 and memorised every action of etc. - it may bring back the nostalgia or whatever.

 

The last reason I'll suggest is that, as you suggest, it doesn't really matter if it is a continuation of this type. But it will make an extra few people happy, while not affecting anyone else, so why not?

 

Edit: @Dina

I may have deliberately included a false equivalence because I saw you campaigning against them earlier :P (sorry...)

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Question: we have all of the Toa again. Same names, functionally the same characters. How are they any less your beloved characters if they don't have amnesia of 10 years of meandering adventures attached?

 

On the meta level, they are the same. You, as someone following the story, know that. But in-universe, they don't need to be attached to Gen 1, and people have already outlined many reasons why doing so would be problematic.

 

~B~

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About the 'reboot' wording, too; has this ever been confirmed as hard or soft reboot? I've only seen the term reboot being tossed around on the forums, but I haven't seen any actual confirmation as to the the actual meaning, or to what Lego has actually said on the matter

Does anybody have some links? It would be nice to see some hard evidence rather than just all of us flapping our gums without any essence behind our words :P

 

 

The only people who have wanted to split it up into "soft reboot" "hard reboot" "crunchy reboot with a caramel filling" are those who want to misconstrue that in whichever direction best suits them, which usually results in those "theories" that try to pull together as many of the aspects of G1 Bionicle as confusingly as possible to make something that just barely fits into the G2 Bionicle's story.

 

 

The only time I have ever seen a non-hard reboot, it was specifically called a soft reboot at the time. Believe it or not, the whole "soft reboot" thing doesn't actually happen all that often. I may even be remembering that the term was coined specifically to describe the 2009 story. Therefore, when someone says "reboot" without putting a Mohs scale number next to it, it's pretty safe to say they probably mean the actual reboot kind of reboot.

Even then, where is the reboot info coming from? That is what my original question post was asking, since I've only seen it on the forums being used, never officially stated by Lego themselves

.
 

 

Okay, thanks! I don't have time to watch it now but ill definitely scrutinize it later

 

 

 

If you make it so that events happened but everyone has amnesia and no one talks about it, then why does it matter that those events happened at all? It only unnecessarily complicates things over the alternative of them not happening.

~B~

Off the top of my head:

It gives the story extra depth for those who like stories with depth.

It means certain details Toa origin stories already exist for those who wish to know, so G2 would not have to gain complexity by inventing new ones.

To some people it just "feels nicer" if the G2 Toa are the characters they grew to love in 2001 and memorised every action of etc. - it may bring back the nostalgia or whatever.

The last reason I'll suggest is that, as you suggest, it doesn't really matter if it is a continuation of this type. But it will make an extra few people happy, while not affecting anyone else, so why not?

Edit: @Dina

I may have deliberately included a false equivalence because I saw you campaigning against them earlier :P (sorry...)

My point exactly! No harm in headcanons about a possible connection. In the same vein, the people without the connection headcanons seem to be going out of their way to put down those with the headcanon, so why don't we all just keep to ourselves? We obviously won't change anything, if the multiple topics and debates about the issue are to say anything, so why not just let people think what they want to think?

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People can have whatever headcanons they like, and I'm all for headcanon. But when instead of people saying that they're headcanoning something they provide arguments for things officially being a continuation because loophole X has been left open, then it's open to discussion and debate about the nature of Bionicle Gen 2.

 

~B~

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People can have whatever headcanons they like, and I'm all for headcanon. But when instead of people saying that they're headcanoning something they provide arguments for things officially being a continuation because loophole X has been left open, then it's open to discussion and debate about the nature of Bionicle Gen 2.

 

~B~

 

Adding on to this important distinction between "headcanon" and "theory about canon that someone is pushing is canon", it's important to note that this allows people who are staunchly against the very idea of a reboot wiggle room to insist Bionicle never rebooted, and obviously never will, which, in a story with a bad track record of becoming completely inaccessible due to the amount of information it accumulates over time, is a bad mindset to perpetuate. Reboots are a natural part of the life cycle for a toy-based story. If Bionicle didn't reboot, it would never have come back at all.

 

(that and I have a knee-jerk reaction of my own; if someone's only argument for something is "they're not hurting you with it", then you've pretty much admitted that the only hope for winning me over is that this person is not literally plunging a knife into my chest, which has never struck me as particularly strong grounds for approving of something.)

 

Okay, thanks! I don't have time to watch it now but ill definitely scrutinize it later

 

You do realize it's three seconds, tops, of this guy saying "it's a reboot"? I have no idea what you're hoping to scrutinize. He doesn't go back and say "okay reboot's not quite right" or "ok not a 'reboot' reboot", just "it's a reboot".

Edited by Dina Saruyama
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It gives the story extra depth for those who like stories with depth.

 

Needless complication =/= depth. I fail to see how this story would be any deeper with these being the old Toa with new personal journeys than them being new Toa with new personal journeys.

I think complication can = depth, depending on your own point of view. Personally, I think BIONICLE's backstory is not irrationally complex, and I enjoy revisiting it from time to time.

 

Question: we have all of the Toa again. Same names, functionally the same characters. How are they any less your beloved characters if they don't have amnesia of 10 years of meandering adventures attached?

On the meta level, they are the same. You, as someone following the story, know that. But in-universe, they don't need to be attached to Gen 1, and people have already outlined many reasons why doing so would be problematic.

~B~

Maybe, but again I think it's a personal thing. I don't think I'm the only one who would think of the Toa differently depending on if they are connected to G1 (maybe I'm just weird :D). For example:

Not-G1-connected Tahu: I'd see him as immature for running from Skull Spiders on the way to get his mask.

G1-connected Tahu: I'd sympathise with him more, because I know the hero that he was, and could become after overcoming his amnesia.

 

Edit: Regarding "winning people over", the only reason I am not presenting evidence to positively confirm my point of view as canon is that so far, I have not been given any. However, I believe some may appear in the future so I am "stalling" those who wish to claim continuations have been disproven already.

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It gives the story extra depth for those who like stories with depth.

 

Needless complication =/= depth. I fail to see how this story would be any deeper with these being the old Toa with new personal journeys than them being new Toa with new personal journeys.

I think complication can = depth, depending on your own point of view. Personally, I think BIONICLE's backstory is not irrationally complex, and I enjoy revisiting it from time to time.

 

Consider two different stories. One has one hundred characters, fifteen different settings, and several rotating casts of protagonists. However, the basic theme of the story is a simple message about working together as a team that's immediately apparent to anyone who looks at it for five seconds. The other story has maybe thirty characters, tops, with a cast of three to four protagonists that rarely shifts and a few fleshed-out settings. However, the story itself is rich and deep, with deep, well-written characters and multiple interwoven themes about friendship, self-identity, and what it means to be a person.

 

The former story is certainly complicated; I know I'd have trouble remembering all those characters and places. Is it deep, though? It takes five seconds to understand the central conceit of the story. I'd say not.

 

The second story isn't complicated. I could probably easily remember the characters and places involved. However, the story itself is engagingly written, and requires thought and careful evaluation to comprehend, and has some very serious things to say about life.

 

The former story is what I'd compare Bionicle to. It was hard to understand, but only because it had so many characters, places, and events, it was hard to get your mind around what, exactly, was actually happening. The movies had radically different characters and settings. But do you know what the movies didn't change within themselves? That simple theme: teamwork. Beneath the random complexity being thrown at you time after time after time, the whole thing was a simple message about working as a team. (Even 2006 used to Piraka to drill in this message by showing Toa-like beings who were ultimately brought down by their inability to work together.)

 

The latter story is, I'd say, probably something like Neon Genesis Evangelion. Evangelion has a pretty tight cast of characters; the protagonists are usually the Eva pilots, mostly Shinji, and it almost always takes place in Tokyo-3. And yet, despite this low amount of external complexity, it manages to explore countless themes and ideas, and really make you think about life. (NGE has its flaws, of course, but my point is it is definitely a deeper story than Bionicle G1.)

 

Complexity and depth are completely separate concepts. They aren't even mutually exclusive; Tolkien's stories were complex, yet also covered a myriad of deep themes that left one thinking. Conversely, Yo Gabba Gabba has six protagonists, and examines such deep messages as "don't bite your friends".

 

I'm not saying a story has to be deep! Of all the complaints I've ever had about Bionicle, it was never that I thought it should be Evangelion. It's a kid's story to sell toys, for cryin' out loud. I'm not expecting Dante's Inferno. What I'm trying to do is dispel this idea that Bionicle G2 is somehow dispelling all the "depth" Bionicle G1 had, when it was never that deep. It was never some sort of complex epic that makes you question what it means to be a sapient being. It was a ten-year story that accumulated too many characters that wanted everyone to know how great it is to be friends.

 

Maybe, but again I think it's a personal thing. I don't think I'm the only one who would think of the Toa differently depending on if they are connected to G1 (maybe I'm just weird :D). For example:

Not-G1-connected Tahu: I'd see him as immature for running from Skull Spiders on the way to get his mask.

G1-connected Tahu: I'd sympathise with him more, because I know the hero that he was, and could become after overcoming his amnesia.

 

So someone running from a swarm of skull spiders is only sympathetic to you if you already know he can beat them? Something about that seems like it should be the other way around.

 

Edit: Regarding "winning people over", the only reason I am not presenting evidence to positively confirm my point of view as canon is that so far, I have not been given any. However, I believe some may appear in the future so I am "stalling" those who wish to claim continuations have been disproven already.

 

 

Evidence is everything in a court of law. This is not a court of law, but it still applies. Your stalling in the name of imagined future evidence doesn't actually make the idea seem any stronger.

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Okay, thanks! I don't have time to watch it now but ill definitely scrutinize it later

 

 

You do realize it's three seconds, tops, of this guy saying "it's a reboot"? I have no idea what you're hoping to scrutinize. He doesn't go back and say "okay reboot's not quite right" or "ok not a 'reboot' reboot", just "it's a reboot".

What I meant was that I didn't have time to find the exact part where they mention it.

 

Plus maybe if you said things in a more polite tone, too, the conversation might be easier. It kind of comes off as sarcastic and arrogant :/

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Okay, thanks! I don't have time to watch it now but ill definitely scrutinize it later

 

You do realize it's three seconds, tops, of this guy saying "it's a reboot"? I have no idea what you're hoping to scrutinize. He doesn't go back and say "okay reboot's not quite right" or "ok not a 'reboot' reboot", just "it's a reboot".

What I meant was that I didn't have time to find the exact part where they mention it.

 

Plus maybe if you said things in a more polite tone, too, the conversation might be easier. It kind of comes off as sarcastic and arrogant :/

 

 

The link links to the exact moment in seconds. I'm not going to send someone into a thirty minute long video without pointing them exactly where they need to be. That's just asking for them to come up fruitless and claim it doesn't exist.

 

I apologize for my frustration at an argument that's been happening practically endlessly for half a year now. I just find it frustrating that many of the arguments haven't even changed in that time.

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Okay, thanks! I don't have time to watch it now but ill definitely scrutinize it later

 

 

You do realize it's three seconds, tops, of this guy saying "it's a reboot"? I have no idea what you're hoping to scrutinize. He doesn't go back and say "okay reboot's not quite right" or "ok not a 'reboot' reboot", just "it's a reboot".

What I meant was that I didn't have time to find the exact part where they mention it.

Plus maybe if you said things in a more polite tone, too, the conversation might be easier. It kind of comes off as sarcastic and arrogant :/

 

The link links to the exact moment in seconds. I'm not going to send someone into a thirty minute long video without pointing them exactly where they need to be. That's just asking for them to come up fruitless and claim it doesn't exist.

 

I apologize for my frustration at an argument that's been happening practically endlessly for half a year now. I just find it frustrating that many of the arguments haven't even changed in that time.

The link is unfortunately not working for me then, it just lead me to the beginning of the video

 

And no worries about the frustration, but do note that many people on the forums can never be aware of personal situations or emotions, so when frustration comes out on a post it seems like it is pointed at the user, not at the topic in general

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Huh, that is odd. It's at exactly 1:54.

Ok thanks for the timing!

 

Edit: watched the part. Kinda wish they had said a bit more instead of just "it's a reboot", but beggars can't be choosers. That being said, I'll definitely stick to my belief that maybe one day they'll connect it :P

 

Vague and exact at the same time

Edited by ~Haxorus~

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Kinda wish they had said a bit more instead of just "it's a reboot", but beggars can't be choosers. That being said, I'll definitely stick to my belief that maybe one day they'll connect it :P

 

Vague and exact at the same time

You're 100% entitled to your opinion in this matter, but ... what exactly would convince you that G2 truly is G2 and not some far-flung extension of G1? I mean, if a LEGO employee saying "it's a reboot" isn't convincing enough, then what would be?

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Kinda wish they had said a bit more instead of just "it's a reboot", but beggars can't be choosers. That being said, I'll definitely stick to my belief that maybe one day they'll connect it :P

Vague and exact at the same time

 

You're 100% entitled to your opinion in this matter, but ... what exactly would convince you that G2 truly is G2 and not some far-flung extension of G1? I mean, if a LEGO employee saying "it's a reboot" isn't convincing enough, then what would be?

To be quite honest, I'm too stubborn to convince beyond reasoning, so I Don't think anything really could

 

I mean, if they had elaborated on the 'reboot' and said more than just 'it's a reboot', I'd take their word for it. But, like what many people on both sides of the debate have been saying, you need evidence to prove it. Not that being a Lego employee is not evidence enough, but they should have been more deliberate in their word choices

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To be quite honest, I'm too stubborn to convince beyond reasoning, so I Don't think anything really could

I mean, if they had elaborated on the 'reboot' and said more than just 'it's a reboot', I'd take their word for it. But, like what many people on both sides of the debate have been saying, you need evidence to prove it. Not that being a Lego employee is not evidence enough, but they should have been more deliberate in their word choices

 

 

I'd say they were very deliberate in their choice to not use adjectives like "soft", "squishy", "wiggly", or "complete opposite of" to describe the reboot. Given that the default state of a reboot is completely and thoroughly disconnected, I don't see how a lack of saying that specifically could be seen as evidence towards a type of "reboot" that has only previously been described with one of those modifiers affixed to its beginning.

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To be quite honest, I'm too stubborn to convince beyond reasoning, so I Don't think anything really could

 

I mean, if they had elaborated on the 'reboot' and said more than just 'it's a reboot', I'd take their word for it. But, like what many people on both sides of the debate have been saying, you need evidence to prove it. Not that being a Lego employee is not evidence enough, but they should have been more deliberate in their word choices

 

 

I'd say they were very deliberate in their choice to not use adjectives like "soft", "squishy", "wiggly", or "complete opposite of" to describe the reboot. Given that the default state of a reboot is completely and thoroughly disconnected, I don't see how a lack of saying that specifically could be seen as evidence towards a type of "reboot" that has only previously been described with one of those modifiers affixed to its beginning.

What I mean is that there was no deliberation after the fact; from the debates here it is clearly illustrated that reboot means different things to different people in different scenarios. Therefore, it should have been stated whether or not it was connected at all, or whether the only connection is in the name

 

Regardless, until proven otherwise, I'd say that the overall ambiguity of the term reboot is up in the air, relatively, but any connecting factors or non-connecting factors are all based in the individual minds of whoever wants to believe in

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Evidence is everything in a court of law. This is not a court of law, but it still applies. Your stalling in the name of imagined future evidence doesn't actually make the idea seem any stronger.

I accept that. But I'm happy to settle for a possibility of a continuation for now. When enough story has been released to be able to properly analyse it, I will get back to you with the sort of evidence that makes the idea seem stronger (or possibly accept that I was wrong, depending on what happens).

 

I should probably just say that I'm still not convinced by your assertion that "reboot" can only be interpreted one way, and leave it at that, because there isn't much more that I could add to the discussion. :)

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I should probably just say that I'm still not convinced by your assertion that "reboot" can only be interpreted one way, and leave it at that, because there isn't much more that I could add to the discussion. :)

 

 

Well, I mean, I really don't know how much clearer I could make it. If I told you the Michael Bay Transformers films were a reboot, would you assume their story was connected to the 80's cartoon? If I told you My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic was a reboot, would you theorize ways it's connected to the previous cartoon? There is a certain assumption of finality to the idea of a reboot. That's why they had to invent the concept of the "soft reboot" in the first place; if you can't straight-up apply the term "reboot" to something without qualifying it, it's not actually a full reboot.

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You're 100% entitled to your opinion in this matter, but ... what exactly would convince you that G2 truly is G2 and not some far-flung extension of G1? I mean, if a LEGO employee saying "it's a reboot" isn't convincing enough, then what would be?

*Lego employee stands up at microphone*

 

"Hello everyone, we'd just like to tell you that the Bionicle story that started in 2015 is a full reboot and is not connected to any previous Bionicle story in any way whatsoever. Thank you, and good night."

 

Instead they leave the whole thing ambiguous, and throw some really weird nonsense to an unreliable news source that suggests a connection. I'd call that suspicious. 

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You're 100% entitled to your opinion in this matter, but ... what exactly would convince you that G2 truly is G2 and not some far-flung extension of G1? I mean, if a LEGO employee saying "it's a reboot" isn't convincing enough, then what would be?

*Lego employee stands up at microphone*

 

"Hello everyone, we'd just like to tell you that the Bionicle story that started in 2015 is a full reboot and is not connected to any previous Bionicle story in any way whatsoever. Thank you, and good night."

 

Instead they leave the whole thing ambiguous, and throw some really weird nonsense to an unreliable news source that suggests a connection. I'd call that suspicious.

I am just baffled that "you can stop the speculation and the theories, it is a reboot" is somehow an ambiguous thing to say.
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Erm, what speculation and what theories is he referring to?

 

Probably the speculation and the theories that were happening at the time as to whether or not the story was a continuation or a reboot, which oddly have remained more or less the same this whole time. Surely he didn't have to list every speculation and theory and say it was wrong or right?

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I can think of nothing even slightly ambiguous about the words "it's a reboot." Franchises get rebooted all the time and for many reasons. It's not an unremarkable occurrence, and in toy franchises, it's downright mundane.
 
What I don't get is the admitted stubbornness on the part of fans who want to see a continuation. I mean, I get that people are fans of the original—that's why we're all having this discussion!—but that shouldn't mean resorting to very specific interpretations of otherwise clear-cut statements in an attempt to lend credence to a preconceived notion.

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What I don't get is the admitted stubbornness on the part of fans who want to see a continuation. I mean, I get that people are fans of the original—that's why we're all having this discussion!—but that shouldn't mean resorting to very specific interpretations of otherwise clear-cut statements in an attempt to lend credence to a preconceived notion.

 

That's it right there, though, right on the nose. I mean, obviously mine and others stubbornness does nothing to change anybody else's opinions (nor do I want it to), but if even the slightest variation in interpretation could lead to the outcome we want to eventually see then we'll cling to it like a Shadow Leech on an Av-Matoran.

 

Not that it's the healthiest mindset to have, but stubbornness as a trait isn't the worst to have. I mean, I'll be okay if at the end of this Bionicle's run there is no connection at all, but I'll cling to the hope that there might be one, and I'll still hold my own headcanons about the possible connection, too

 

Regardless, anything else I say in this topic probably doesn't fit, since this is a topic based around the 'hard reboot' concept, so I probably won't post much more in here :P but I've appreciated the discussion generated here, so thanks for that everybody!

BZPRPG:

Akamu, Toa of Ice :smilekohrak: :smilenuju: :smilekopakanu: :smilematoro: :akakunu: :kohrak: :matatu: :akaku: Talk to me about Destiny!
 

Ask me about stuttering and speech impediments!//Feel free to talk about Dungeons and Dragons with me!

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I've honestly partly been playing Devil's Advocate here, in the interest of giving the idea a fair shake. I have my own connection theory which is fanfiction spoilers - fortunately the way it is executed in that story won't rile any reboot proponents here, which you all can be relieved about.

 

It still feels like the "reboot" concept is relatively new, but maybe just new to me. Can't say I've experienced a true hard reboot of any other franchise - most stories I know of don't reboot. But my perception =/= reality, and I'm willing to accept that. 

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This debate summarized;

 

"It's a reboot."

 

"No it's not."

 

"Yes it is, they said so."

 

"But I want it to be a continuation."

 

"It isn't."

 

"But you have to prove to me that it isn't."

 

"*evidence not retyped*"

 

"But that doesn't prove it."

 

"Can you be convinced?"

 

"No."

 

"Can you admit my evidence is true?"

 

"Yes."

 

"So you disagree with the truth and we can't convince you otherwise?"

 

"Yes."

 

*Observers collectively sigh in exasperation*

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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I've honestly partly been playing Devil's Advocate here, in the interest of giving the idea a fair shake. I have my own connection theory which is fanfiction spoilers - fortunately the way it is executed in that story won't rile any reboot proponents here, which you all can be relieved about.

 

It still feels like the "reboot" concept is relatively new, but maybe just new to me. Can't say I've experienced a true hard reboot of any other franchise - most stories I know of don't reboot. But my perception =/= reality, and I'm willing to accept that. 

In just the last ten to fifteen years we have had major media franchises reboot:

 

- The Spider-Man films (Raimi's to the Amazing franchise and now to a Marvel/Sony hybrid)

- The Superman film franchise

- The Batman film franchise

- Spider-Man has had four different cartoon reboots

- DC's entire comic lineup was rebooted to the New 52

- We're on what, four different Transformers reboots?

- The Ninja Turltles have had two cartoons, two movies, and all are in separate continuities

- There's a Ghost Busters reboot potentially coming out in a few years

- Godzilla reboot

- The new Planet of the Apes films

- Robocop

- Jude Dredd

- The Sonic comics just rebooted

- X-Men has had three cartoons all in separate continuities

- My Little Pony

- The new Thundercats

- Even the Smurfs!

- Sailor Moon

 

All of these are disconnected from the original or prior series, and share themes, characters, and ideas from their predecessors the same way BIONICLE2015 has from the original. The term "reboot" has a meaning in media and franchise discussions, and it is only in this fandom specifically that I have ever seen anyone dispute what "reboot" means. Every other franchise's fandoms seem to get it, but BIONICLE fans' collective obsession with eradicating every minutiae of ambiguity or "fuzziness" has led to made up terms and redefined words others wouldn't understand. If I asked Transformer fans what "kind of reboot" their new series is, they'd just stare blankly (or answer "one that is destroying my childhood!" but that's a different conversation entirely!)

 

As for "what kind of speculation" the TLG team at NYCC could have been referring to... I mean, really? Let's look at that logically. He follows that with "it's a reboot" which must mean the answer to the speculation and debate was whether or not the storyline was a reboot. It is! Major franchises, especially toylines (so basically, Hasbro), do this all the time. I just think the "ambiguity" is wishful thinking mixed with the toxic mindset G1 has left lingering over the fanbase where every word and sentence has to be dissected to find the "real meaning" behind it to support some complicated theory.

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^Believe it or not, I followed none of the franchises you just mentioned. They aren't in my taste to follow.

 

Many of thoae franchises are extremely popular, and films. Do you not live near a movie theatre, fishers?

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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-Tahu represents Russia. Tahu is red, and communists were typically called Reds. He is also hotheaded, and always eager to start fights and burn everything to the ground (Much like a nuclear bomb would do)

-Kopaka is a metaphor for Britain, since he's both a) white, and b) cold (Two things which Britain is). What's more, he and Tahu constantly clash with one another, sort of how Churchill and Stalin were always at ends with one another

-Onua is America. He's a sleeping giant who is friendly to everyone, but who can be absolutely devastating in a fight. He also manages to stop Tahu and Kopaka when they start wrestling, sort of how America always has to play peacekeeper

-Pohatu is Australian. This is obvious because of his boomerangs and hardened attitude (And because he lives in the desert). He seems to show apathy towards the other Toa's infighting and arguing, and instead chooses to stay focused on his goal. This could stand for how Australia is a separate landmass from the rest of the world, yet it still deals with the rest of the world

-Gali acts as a sort of peacekeeper, much like the United Nations does today. Eventually, the other Toa decide to follow her advice and work together. However, it's under the command of Red/Communist Tahu

-Lewa stands for Revisionist History. Think about it: Lewa's the one who resembles his original 2001 self the least. He's now Jungle instead of Air, his mask barely resembles the Miru, and he doesn't use treespeak anymore. Also, the Forgotten City is in the ruins of Le-Koto, symbolizing the past which was buried deep beneath revisionism so no one would find it and learn the truth

-The Protectors are the average citizens. They blindly aid their Toa without fully knowing their intentions, placing their trust in these figures because they offer them safety in times of darkness and hardship

-LOSS stands for media sensationalism. He was built up as this big bad boss who would no doubt give the Toa a run for their money, but when they finally face him he's not as bad as we thought. Much like how the media today loves twisting stories around to make them seem 10x worse than they really are

 

Conclusion: Bionicle 2015 is a metaphor for the New World Order.

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why is this happening

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^Believe it or not, I followed none of the franchises you just mentioned. They aren't in my taste to follow. 

 

Bionicle is. (Hence: Bionicle is different from all of those! *jumps up and down* )

I mean, I follow only two or three of them, and I'm just aware of others because of aggregate news sites I follow. But I mean, the Spider-Man movies alone are a MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR franchise. There's no way you've gone through life just completely unaware of it entirely whilst living in a first-world country.

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-Kopaka is a metaphor for Britain, since he's both a) white, and b) cold (Two things which Britain is). What's more, he and Tahu constantly clash with one another, sort of how Churchill and Stalin were always at ends with one another

 

Sort-of correct [:P] England is lousy, Kopaka is boss [:P]

 

 

 

-Onua is America. He's a sleeping giant who is friendly to everyone, but who can be absolutely devastating in a fight. He also manages to stop Tahu and Kopaka when they start wrestling, sort of how America always has to play peacekeeper

 

Wait, friendly to everyone? [:P] Did I miss something here? [:P] Last time I checked, every country hates the other country's guts [:P]

 

 

All the others are kinda spot-on [:P]

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