More than just Two Mask Makers?

[Ford]

It just occurred to me that maybe there are other mask makers out there besides Ekimu and Makuta (besides Vakama  ).

 

What do you think?

[fishers64]

Possible, but not likely. 

 

You'd think that if there were one, they would be hard at work replacing the masks that were scattered, no? So far, we haven't seen any beings doing that, so not sure.

[The 1st Shadow]

Well, assuming they aren't immortal godlike beings, then perhaps, like the Protector Masks which are passed down from father to son, then perhaps Ekimu and Makuta, if they are literal brothers, took up the mantle of their predecessor(s). This would mean that the craft originated at some point, and may have spread to other places.

 

They don't necessarily have to be on Okoto--the island is on a planet somewhere, so the possibility of other, nearby landmasses having their own Mask Makers isn't totally out of the question.

Edited February 6, 2015 by The~1st~Shadow

[Munty]

I just had this thought while replying to a post by Prowl actually as he suggested the existence of more than one forge. I mentioned in my reply that there are only 2 mask makers but technically we don't KNOW that...

 

Of course it's hard to believe there are more given what we DO know so far but there's plenty of opportunities for that to change. In the meantime why not spitball theories?!

 

I'd like to see the protectors remain as tribal warriors and 6 new small sets in the next winter wave who are tribal mask makers. They'd represent the turaga of old and each would have their own elemental forge in their local region. These forges will only be able to harness that region's power. Hence the great forge is built on the mountain between all 6 regions and can control all of the elements!

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Oh hey I got a shout out, lol. Yeah The island could be any range of sizes. Though the maps all show possible land masses but no settlements it is possible that the island is huge on the level of Pangaea, and small tribal villages would not be large enough to be seen. Or on the flip side it could be but one of several land masses. I mean we know of Okoto and Island/continent in Gen2 but has anything really been revealed on it's size? I mean we could be getting something the size of this:

Or it could be the size of Australia, or even as small as Hawaii's main island. That in turn with the unknown size of the planet could lead to the very strong possibility that there are not only other Island settlements on this here planet but each would hold it's own Mask maker(s).

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

Everyone always mentions Vakama, but what about Nuhrii?!

 

-NotS

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Well Vakama is the most well known Mask maker as he started out as "THE" Ta-Turaga, then was shown as a Matoran mask maker Then a Toa...

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

Yeah I know, I'm just joking around.  

 

-NotS

[MrSciFiGuy]

Oh hey I got a shout out, lol. Yeah The island could be any range of sizes. Though the maps all show possible land masses but no settlements it is possible that the island is huge on the level of Pangaea, and small tribal villages would not be large enough to be seen. Or on the flip side it could be but one of several land masses. I mean we know of Okoto and Island/continent in Gen2 but has anything really been revealed on it's size? I mean we could be getting something the size of this:

Or it could be the size of Australia, or even as small as Hawaii's main island. That in turn with the unknown size of the planet could lead to the very strong possibility that there are not only other Island settlements on this here planet but each would hold it's own Mask maker(s).

 

We haven't gotten an official size yet, but in the episodes they stated they have "traveled for weeks", and that can imply a larger island than the Mata Nui one.

 

As for the mask makers, they may be a separate tribe who carried on their teachings passing it down to their sons (and daughters?) as a sacred duty.

[Regitnui]

I wouldn't mind the Mask Makers being treated like Protectors; they're the same species as the other villagers, but are taken and taught the art of Mask Making when they're very young, even changing their armour to represent they belong to all the tribes rather than the one they left. Ekimu, with his trans-blue, could have been an ice villager who inherited the Mask of Creation. Similarly, Makuta was a villager from the earth tribe who inherited the Mask of Control from his mentor.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Well being they are brothers while the idea of them being from different tribes is cool, seems debunked right there. Though we are not yet sure how the different villages work this gen. Do they keep it in the family this time? Is brother a relation or generalized term? It would be cool that select villagers could be taken and trained to replace Mask makers. Though one has to ask... If this is a viable option then why did nobody take Ekimu's place once they buried him? Just that nobody was skilled enough to make masks or what?

 

So much we still don't know... so much to still discover and learn...

[Saint-14]

Well, considering that Ekimu and Makuta are relatively mortal in this universe, it certainly is a possibility that there could be more than just them as mask makers. Personally, I'd like to see a few more, perhaps one for each element/colour scheme (Ekimu being Ice, Makuta being Earth, etc.)

[Regitnui]

Well being they are brothers while the idea of them being from different tribes is cool, seems debunked right there. Though we are not yet sure how the different villages work this gen. Do they keep it in the family this time? Is brother a relation or generalized term? It would be cool that select villagers could be taken and trained to replace Mask makers. Though one has to ask... If this is a viable option then why did nobody take Ekimu's place once they buried him? Just that nobody was skilled enough to make masks or what?

 

So much we still don't know... so much to still discover and learn...

1) 'Brothers' like the Toa? It doesn't necessarily mean that they were born from the same mother, but rather comrades. Bionicle has used the latter definition more often than the former.

 

2) Nobody took Ekimu's place because Mask Making requires training. Without Ekimu or Makuta to train an apprentice, than the Villagers are left without a Mask Maker. Judging by how Ekimu jumps right back into the fray (Mask Maver vs. Skull Grinder set), it's safe to assume that were it not for Makuta's rebellion, neither of the Mask Makers would have chosen an apprentice for years yet, as they were still in their prime.

 

3) Yes, but hypotheses are the first step towards finding things. It's a pity we don't have a gen2 Greg, or I would have proposed that as a 'non-storyline-affecting' suggestion. Imagine Two-Kua being picked as Gen2 Makuta's replacement, becoming 'Two-kua-nuva, Master of Masks'.

[Ballom Nom Nom]

It's a pity we don't have a gen2 Greg, or I would have proposed that as a 'non-storyline-affecting' suggestion.

On the contrary, I think it's a tremendous gain that we don't have an equivalent person to Greg involved in writing the reboot. Besides, it took years for Greg to interact with fans about canonizing random fan ideas at all, and the process really only took off with Bionicle's imminent death.

 

~B~

Edited February 7, 2015 by Ballom

[UnderscoreChronix]

Probably not. 

[Munty]

 

It's a pity we don't have a gen2 Greg, or I would have proposed that as a 'non-storyline-affecting' suggestion.

On the contrary, I think it's a tremendous gain that we don't have an equivalent person to Greg involved in writing the reboot. Besides, it took years for Greg to interact with fans about canonizing random fan ideas at all, and the process really only took off with Bionicle's imminent death.

 

~B~

 

 

I couldn't agree more. I desperately hope that Gen 2 never sees the same level of fan/writer interaction as Gen 1 did. It would be nice for us to be able to voice our suggestions to them and perhaps have some better ideas absorbed into the developing story but no 'ask x' shenanigans and ABSOLUTELY NO CANONISATIONS!!!

[Lyichir]

Absolutely. There's a third mask maker named Okoto-Nui who is the most powerful mask maker of all. He has gold and rainbow armor and stands thirty feet tall (not a shorty like Ekimu and Makuta >). He wears the mask of life and death and is constantly at war with the darkness inside himself (SO EDGY ), which is why he doesn't just save Okoto on his own even though he isn't in an endless sleep like his lazy brothers.

ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

I think somebody is bias against short folks huh? lol. Never heard of "tiny but mighty"?

 

Anyway I'd love the idea of mask makers being of different elements originally. Thus explaining a little why they are all gold with a different secondary color. Though why the idea of making Ekimu Ice? I mean blue is water as well isn't it? Yeah I know Gali is female, but that doesn't mean yet that all water villagers are as well. There is no Lore yet released that says the tribes are gender specific. There is also no lore saying they are not either. Other than the comment about Protector masks being passed from father to son. Being that the Toa are perhaps of a completely different species than the protectors it is possible that while the Toa have genders in the form of Gali being the only female, the Protectors are genderless and are only using the male terminology for simplicity sake.

[Regitnui]

Though why the idea of making Ekimu Ice?

 

Ice has Trans-blue bones, like Ekimu. We actually have indirect evidence for dual-gender tribes this time, with the Protector being a hereditary position "Passed down from father to son". Even if there aren't female Protectors, there must be female villagers to be mothers.

[Iblis]

We actually have indirect evidence for dual-gender tribes this time, with the Protector being a hereditary position "Passed down from father to son". Even if there aren't female Protectors, there must be female villagers to be mothers.

 

 

Actually we don't

The female "Protector"/Villager might be from a different tribe. Which is exclusively female. That we just haven't heard about.

 

Serious note though, Ekimu, PoW, PoI, Gali, & Kopaka all have light blue trans 'bones'.

Earth & Ice doesn't seem much more or less likely than Earth & Water though IMO.

Although I'm not expecting them to say that Ekimu &/or Makuta originally belonged to any tribe but my 2 cents

[Regitnui]

Serious note though, Ekimu, PoW, PoI, Gali, & Kopaka all have light blue trans 'bones'.

 

 

Oh. I didn't know that. Apologies.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

On the contrary, I think it's a tremendous gain that we don't have an equivalent person to Greg involved in writing the reboot. Besides, it took years for Greg to interact with fans about canonizing random fan ideas at all, and the process really only took off with Bionicle's imminent death.

~B~

 

While I didn't particularly like Greg's canonizations (and am glad to hopefully not see that implemented in G2) I did like having a member of the story team always being there to answer questions and clarify inconsistencies or overarching mysteries. I really liked the Ask Greg part of Bionicle.com Kanoka club.

 

-NotS

[ALVIS]

Oh hey I got a shout out, lol. Yeah The island could be any range of sizes. Though the maps all show possible land masses but no settlements it is possible that the island is huge on the level of Pangaea, and small tribal villages would not be large enough to be seen. Or on the flip side it could be but one of several land masses. I mean we know of Okoto and Island/continent in Gen2 but has anything really been revealed on it's size? I mean we could be getting something the size of this:

Or it could be the size of Australia, or even as small as Hawaii's main island. That in turn with the unknown size of the planet could lead to the very strong possibility that there are not only other Island settlements on this here planet but each would hold it's own Mask maker(s).

 

The only thing we know about Okoto's size is that the Toa and Protectors "traveled for weeks" to get from their landing sites to their mask shrines. That implies that the wilds are quite large, but I don't know exactly how large -- it could be that it took a long time simply because the terrain was very hazardous.

 

....Although I probably should have read the rest of the thread before replying, the point still stands.

Edited February 8, 2015 by ALVIS

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Well travel time does not inherently equal range of distance only total area distance traveled. By that I mean did they have to search for their masks or just knew where they were? The answer could tell if the travel time of "weeks" corresponds to hunting time or direct travel time. If they had to hunt for them, then the search regardless of travel distance is why it took weeks. However if it was simply "Hey your hear, the mask is here. Now start hiking" Then we could say yeah, Okoto is huge...

[The 1st Shadow]

Well, the animations say the masks were scattered. The skull spider could have found them due to their vast numbers, but the villagers seem to be much fewer in numbers. Plus, it has been a long time since Ekimu knocked Makuta out, so maybe a few generations have passed since the Protectors knew where the masks were. If that's the case, then, for example, the Protector of Fire could have said, "Tahu, the mask is hidden in a volcano." 

 

Tahu: "Well, which one?"

 

PoF: "Um... Not really sure. We've got like 12 in the whole region of fire..."

 

Tahu: "Geez, that's a big help. Guess we'll be searching for a while."

 

So, yeah. Could have taken a long time to search for the masks, but the PoF recognized the place that the Mask of Fire was hidden. Then again, maybe he knew what the area looked like based on drawings, but had never actually traveled there. That could work, too.

 

 

 

On another note, has it been asked WHY the masks were scattered? If not, then perhaps there is another Mask Maker, and it was they who did the hiding of the Masks. Because I seriously question how the Masks just happened to be hovering over pedestals in very specific locations. Sounds too deliberate.

Edited February 8, 2015 by The~1st~Shadow

[Pomegranate]

It sound to me like it's outside the realm of possibility. After all, what if some break? Are they just gonna have to walk around all ashamed of their bare faces?

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Good question... I mean what "IF" a mask broke or was damaged or stolen by a skull spider? Do the Protector/villagers get weaker like in Gen1? Could that be why Ekimu/Makuta fell into their respective comas. Not being in the epicenter aside as that likely could be the cause of their undue extensive nape. It says masks are passed from father to son... so are we talking phoenix style where after daddy kicks the bucket his son is born and given the mask? Some may argue not due to seeing a baby ffire villager next to the narrator in the legend clip. However that does lead to the question of who is replacing lost/stolen/broken masks while the only two known Mask Makers are otherwise indisposed.

 

Somehow they must be receiving mask from somewhere...

[The 1st Shadow]

It sound to me like it's outside the realm of possibility. After all, what if some break? Are they just gonna have to walk around all ashamed of their bare faces?

 

Good question... I mean what "IF" a mask broke or was damaged or stolen by a skull spider? Do the Protector/villagers get weaker like in Gen1? Could that be why Ekimu/Makuta fell into their respective comas. Not being in the epicenter aside as that likely could be the cause of their undue extensive nape. It says masks are passed from father to son... so are we talking phoenix style where after daddy kicks the bucket his son is born and given the mask? Some may argue not due to seeing a baby ffire villager next to the narrator in the legend clip. However that does lead to the question of who is replacing lost/stolen/broken masks while the only two known Mask Makers are otherwise indisposed.

 

Somehow they must be receiving mask from somewhere...

 

Hey, have you watched the animations? States that the brothers made "many masks." Never did it say that they only made one for each villager. If they wanted to be efficient and productive, then they would have made loads of extras, in the event that something breaks. 

 

Look at tire companies--do they only make enough tires to cover every car once? Or do they make loads and sell them individually in case you blow one out or something.

 

Or, look at any other company that sells some sort of product. They don't just make enough for every person to buy just one--they make many so that broken ones can be replaced.

 

Now, unless Ekimu and Makuta were complete morons and failed Economics 101, then they most likely took the same route.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Yeah, you kind of cut my legs off there....

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

I like think that akin to the Aesir and Great Beings, that these god-like beings are spread out but low in numbers. (Like the Brotherhood of Makuta, how they sent out Makuta to be like guardians over regions) Maybe only one was supposed to watch over Okoto, but because Makuta is Ekimu's brother, they let him join along.

 

Thing is though, how many of these beings are there, why are they assigned to watch over regions (world war, precaution), and just what exactly are they?

[Cressona]

It could also be that the mask makers are "spirits" like Mata Nui and Makuta were imagined to be in 2001, and their resemblance to the Protectors is so that they can interact with them on Okoto and have kinship with each other, despite the protectors/villagers being ordinary, mortal inhabitants and the mask makers being maybe immortal "spirits" of some kind.

 

We could see some interesting parallels between the mask makers and the toa, who could be seen as sort of like elemental spirits, especially in the mythology-heavy 2001-- maybe there's a connection between the toa and the mask makers as far as origin, or powers, or something.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Possible... in that while looking similar they are as different as "Ancient Aliens" "Ancient Astronaut theorists" believe some of the original Egyptian and other ancient civilization rulers were not entirely human but extraterrestrials who came from the stars. So they find the body of Ekimu and "mummify" it, place a ceremonial gold protector mask over his face, then incase him in a sarcophagus and burry him in a tome to be lost to the ages.

 

Yeah, I guess I could see something like this being an idea, though not too a fullest extent stated above...

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

Oh dear Lord, I hope Lego doesn't use 'Ancient Astronaut' theories, I find that hoo-haw to be complete baloney and it would put me off (unless this continuity is going to be a comedy, because I will be sure to have a few hard laughs).

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Well While to an extent I agree with you, It is fun to watch and I do share some laughs... They hold true to a level. While I don't personally believe lego is or has used the ancient astronaut theory's as a bases for Gen2 I will just for laughs...
 
Think about it.... The Toa come from the stars: "Star beings" or "extraterrestrials" as seen in this belief. An ET by definition is an alien from a different planet or plane of existence correct? So the Toa are ETs in Gen2...
 
In the Show they claim Angels, Gods, weirdly shaped ancient rulers, etc... could all be ETs and by definition while not necessarily martins type alien ETs, they still are in the broad sense... Anyone with inhuman/superhuman looks or abilities is though could be some form of alien human hybrid or some form of "misunderstood alien technology". Without getting into a debate about Lego's use of this belief... Look to one's abilities or weapons... Zeus' lightning bolt or Thor's hammer? While we modern humans can throw this off as technology at it's finest... back in the day they thought it was magic incarnate... Show a smart phone, tv, or other tech to somebody from the "dark ages" and you'd be called a witch or alike...

 

Anyway it was just a comment...

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

Well While to an extent I agree with you, It is fun to watch and I do share some laughs... They hold true to a level. While I don't personally believe lego is or has used the ancient astronaut theory's as a bases for Gen2 I will just for laughs...

 

Think about it.... The Toa come from the stars: "Star beings" or "extraterrestrials" as seen in this belief. An ET by definition is an alien from a different planet or plane of existence correct? So the Toa are ETs in Gen2...

 

In the Show they claim Angels, Gods, weirdly shaped ancient rulers, etc... could all be ETs and by definition while not necessarily martins type alien ETs, they still are in the broad sense... Anyone with inhuman/superhuman looks or abilities is though could be some form of alien human hybrid or some form of "misunderstood alien technology". Without getting into a debate about Lego's use of this belief... Look to one's abilities or weapons... Zeus' lightning bolt or Thor's hammer? While we modern humans can throw this off as technology at it's finest... back in the day they thought it was magic incarnate... Show a smart phone, tv, or other tech to somebody from the "dark ages" and you'd be called a witch or alike...

 

Anyway it was just a comment...

 

They lacked the technology, but not the minds, dude. There are glyphs of Old Kingdom Ancient Egyptians using what looks like light-bulbs, there exists a primitive power cell nicknamed 'Baghdad Batteries', and the ancient world had complex nigh-robotic automatons; most of which were destroyed in the wake of the Barbarian Migrations of the 400-500's and the Muslim Invasions of the 600's. Speaking of the Muslim Invasions, the Romans made flamethrowers just beforehand and used them to keep out the initial jihad'ing horde. The Roman Empire was able to save these machines within their borders until their demise in 1453 AD, where they destroyed much of it to prevent it falling into the wrong hands, then many of the Greco-Roman scientists headed west and used their scientific knowledge to help upstart the Renaissance and later (unintentionally) helped the Protestant Reformation get rolling. And after putting down the many attempted rebellions, the Muslim Caliphates were some of the most intelligent governments in the Age of the Sword, reconstructing the old automatons and devising many incredible feats of mathematics and science (which ended with the Mongols destroying Baghdad). Please, do give them the credit they deserve.

 

If you were to show our technology to the right people of the past, they would be at first astonished, but if you let them look at it and helped explain a little of it, I am pretty sure they would fully understand it and maybe be able to duplicate it (they would need Einstein, however.   ). If you just showed a blindly ignorant serf that worked as a cesspool manager his entire life, then yeah, he would probably either chant your burning or start worshiping you (depends).

 

 

 

And didn't the first generation of BIONICLE do that already, having pieces of technology (the tools and masks) being supernatural in nature but later revealed as pure technology (even though the power for much of the technology is kind of supernatural itself, from natural protodermis to the harvested dreams of the Great Beings via Annona)? It started as a mystical land with many myths and legends, and the point of the story was not only to awaken the Great Spirit, but to uncover the truths of these legends, which as it always works, the truth was stranger then the fiction.

[Iblis]

Baghdad batteries? I should probably not suggest anyone actually bother to do research, so questions instead, may as well jump for something I haven't heard before:

"reconstructing the old automatons" If you don't mind emulating this is a bit unclear...

 

But er, I'm still surprised at the leap from Ekimu/Makuta maybe being high tech shrouded in more mythological things to generic ancient astronaut hypothesis, I'm mean it's not a big leap but just a bit ...out of character for the series doncha think?

Like I don't think Bionicle ever had something like say Battlestar Galactica where it was essentially pseudomormonish mythology In Space (which well Kolob .. kind of already is).

 

But anyhow I presume there are/were more Mask Makers but we won't see them for at least another year and a bit *shrugs*

 

Edit: Spelling!

Edited February 10, 2015 by Iblis

[Cressona]

I agree with Iblis, I think the charm of G2 is in the mystic elements, the way everything is shrouded in magic, and to explain all that away with some psuedo-scientific, ancient-alien rambling would really ruin a lot of that charm.  G1's handling of the transition from mythological/fantasy to sci-fi, though there are definitely plenty of legitimate complaints to be leveled at it, was definitely a lot smoother than that, and if the science fiction-y is a road G2 wants to go down I'd hope they'd steer away from a big "everything magic is actually science and aliens" reveal.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Oh I do so love history lessons. It is fun to hear or read about what knowledge once had by our species.... Yes I do not debate the intellect of former civilizations, nor do I believe we as a people are vastly superior to them just because of our technological age as it stands... Neither does some of the episodes of this series I stated. They show that the ancients had technology even if they did not fully understand it. Thus why we have stories of Thor, and alike. Yes it is believed by some that Egypt had some form of light and power as the air required to sustain an open flame was not present deep in the tomes found... Also some believe they had stone-cutter saws and other modern seeming tech... On that note we are still perplexed on such buildings as Stonehenge. To this day we cannot reproduce such structures...

 

Anyway I specifically stated that I was not going to get into a debate about "ancient aliens" or "ancient astronaut theories". Merely stated an idea based on a prior comment of how it could be placed. This topic is about multiple mask makers and not our intelligence(or lack there of) as a species as we have evolved.

 

To get back on topic.... I don't think Ekimu/Makuta were/are spirits in the sense of being angelic ghost-like beings any more that we found out that Mata-Nui and Makuta in Gen 1 were actual spirits. If I remember correctly from '01 Mata-Nui was represented by a rock of some kind with a face. It was "The Spirit of the Island" or something to that extent. It was not until later that it was revealed I think that the Island and others were Mata-Nui himself. So maybe they are beings not native to Okoto and there may be others out there... Once we learn of other possible land masses or Underground civilizations it may be revealed of other Mask makers.

 

In truth I think the title of 'Mask Maker" may be just a job, like how the leaders of the tribes are "Protectors". Though if Ekimu/Makuta were only making masks who made the armor or weapons the protectors use?

[Cressona]

To get back on topic.... I don't think Ekimu/Makuta were/are spirits in the sense of being angelic ghost-like beings any more that we found out that Mata-Nui and Makuta in Gen 1 were actual spirits. If I remember correctly from '01 Mata-Nui was represented by a rock of some kind with a face. It was "The Spirit of the Island" or something to that extent. It was not until later that it was revealed I think that the Island and others were Mata-Nui himself. So maybe they are beings not native to Okoto and there may be others out there... Once we learn of other possible land masses or Underground civilizations it may be revealed of other Mask makers.

 

In truth I think the title of 'Mask Maker" may be just a job, like how the leaders of the tribes are "Protectors". Though if Ekimu/Makuta were only making masks who made the armor or weapons the protectors use?

I agree that there's a possibility that our mask makers will turn out, the same way '01 Mata Nui and Makuta did, to not actually be "spirits" at all, but real specific beings, whether a species within the universe or something larger and more unique.

 

However, the fact that we're already getting an Ekimu set (and that we've seen both Ekimu and Makuta, in what seems to be their ordinary forms) makes me a little suspicious of that path.  We've seen both our mask makers, and they look like uniquely-colored protectors with special masks.  If there was a non-mythical origin for them, it seems more likely that they're just members of the protector species (maybe from a separate clan, maybe chosen from among the tribes); if they aren't protectors, there has to be a reason they appear in ordinary protector form, and not the form of whatever other species they are.

[Iblis]

 

Though if Ekimu/Makuta were only making masks who made the armor or weapons the protectors use?

 

I think there is a distinct possibility they (not as unordinary even if it wasn't often) made other things as well Masks, but because Masks have awesome McPowers and so on, they are called Mask Makers; more prestigious, & it would also help distinguish them from other Smiths if there are or were some.