Ninjago History---Retconned?

[The 1st Shadow]

Okay, so I have a couple problems with the new story. Starting with the "masters of the elements."

 

 

So, where exactly do they fit in? We were told that they are descendants of the original masters of the elements, and that Cole, Kai, Jay, and Zane fit into this category.

 

How does this work, exactly? The First Spinjitzu Master, who was the father of Wu and Garmadon, formed Ninjago using the four elements, represented by the Golden Weapons. Why is there a problem with this? A few reasons.

 

One, because there were only four GWs, of the elements Earth, Fire, Lightning, and Ice. Somewhat related to this, there were only four elemental Dragons. You could argue that other Dragons exist, but we just haven't seen them.

 

Two, if TFSM is the father of Wu and Gamadon, both practitioners of the four elements of Spinjitzu, this would mean that the four ninja (and Nya) are descendants of him, as well. 

 

Three, if all these elemental masters have been passing down their powers through the generations for thousands of years, then how old are Wu and Garmadon? Their father was the guy who brought their land into existence, so that means that those two have incredible longevity.

 

However, that doesn't work. Why? One reason: Lloyd. When we first met him, Lloyd was a child, implying that he'd only been around for a few years. This doesn't work. We saw that picture of a younger Wu, Garmadon, and Misako. Garmadon was banished to the Underworld while he and Wu still looked young. This means that the "undead" version of Garmadon actually WAS able to leave the underworld, and he got Misako pregnant. However, we know they hadn't seen each other since before his fall, so that means that it couldn't have happened recently. 

 

 

Okay, I feel like I'm starting to bounce around a lot here, so I'l condense it:

 

Story 1--the Golden Weapons: Ninjago was created thousands of years ago by The First Spinjitzu Master, who was the father of Garmadon and Wu. Garmadon, presumably while he and Wu were still fairly young, fell into the Underworld, and was unable to leave it. Many decades later, after Wu had a chance to age, he trained four young men in the art of Spinjitzu, which manifested in four elements.

 

Story 2--Serpentine/Garmadon's mischief: Garmadon had a son with a woman named Misako before he fell into the Underworld. Lloyd was seen alongside the Ninja (who are depicted as being fairly young, themselves) while he was still just a kid (pre-teen or early teen). If the first story is to be believed, then Lloyd couldn't be Garmadon's son, or Garmadon spent only a few years in the Underworld, and Wu aged significantly in that amount of time. Already the timelines aren't adding up.

 

Story 3--The Overlord: This one mostly follows suit of the first two stories, taking into account the significance of the First Spinjitzu Master and the creation of Ninjago, as well as the importance of the elements (four elemental blades in the Temple of Light).

 

Story 4--Nindroids: Again, this one follows suit of the first few stories, with little retconning.

 

Story 5--Tournament of Elements: Okay, here's where things get screwy. Suddenly, the First Spinjitzu Master (who harnessed the powers of Fire, Earth, Lightning, and Ice, and subsequently passed it on to his sons) is related to Kai, Cole, Jay, and a robot who was built by some guy, and therefore can't bear a genetic connection to the element of Ice. And then there's all these other guys with different powers that have apparently been around since the time of TFSM. "Many generations," Garmadon tells the Ninja, even though there's been only two generations separating Lloyd from TFSM. What's worse is that no one seemed to know about these other powers, until it became convenient for Garmadon to reveal that they had always existed, without any indicators like Golden Weapons or having a hand in the formation of Ninjago. Another point that came up in another topic is that Lloyd is now the Master of Power, instead of Light/Creation, as he was from the moment he became the Green Ninja.

 

No story's perfect, but now they're barely trying to keep the lore consistent. What do you think? Is there something I missed?

 

Thoughts? Theories? Theatrics?

[fishers64]

I'm not sure that the First Spinjitzu Master was Wu's and Garmadon's father. Is that indeed the case? It doesn't seem to be clear. 

 

Even if Wu/Garmadon said they were, that could be to conceal the presence of the other Elemental Masters. Could be a "Makuta lies" explanation. 

[dotcom]

I'm not sure that the First Spinjitzu Master was Wu's and Garmadon's father. Is that indeed the case? It doesn't seem to be clear. 

No, they've been pretty explicit about it. I don't see any way in which there was any room for interpretation regarding that...

 

But yeah. The Ninjago timeline and setting is a big ol mess, and it only gets messier with each new arc. It used to bother me, but it's better to just roll with the punches rather than get caught up in the original continuity. Less annoying that way.

[UnderscoreChronix]

The thing with Zane is a really obvious plothole. 

And also, what the heck is going on with the whole golden weapons paradox? Why did that exist? Or... didn't.. exist?

So in the original story, Kai went to the fire temple to find Nya, then there were two Garmadons and his future self appeared and Jay got the golden weapons and used them to launch the megaweapon into space and destroy the golden weapons. Why did we get an episode where that didn't happen? Why don't they remember it? If the megaweapon never existed, how is Lloyd older? Garmadon wouldn't have awakened the Grundle and Lloyd would still be young. Samukai would also still be alive, and original 2-armed Garmadon never would have left the underworld.  In Rebooted shouldn't there have been two sets of golden weapons on the comet? What happened to the Overlord's armour after Zane defeated him? Shouldn't they have forged it back into the golden weapons, or did they just leave it for anyone to steal? Which one happened? The original story or the weird time travelly one? 

Edited February 7, 2015 by Toa Chronix

[The 1st Shadow]

The thing with Zane is a really obvious plothole. 

And also, what the heck is going on with the whole golden weapons paradox? Why did that exist? Or... didn't.. exist?

Yeah... I deliberately left that episode out of my rant because I knew how screwy it was to begin with. That's a whole topic on its own!

[Zeb]

So why do we assume that the First Spinjitzu Master was the only guy around when Ninjago was created? Wu & Garmadon are obviously his descendants, but apparently the First Spinjitzu Master had helpers or something called the Elemental Masters. They're not his descendants. This seems to imply that there was something there before Ninjago was created.

 

Going back to when the ninja first got elemental powers, it was because they had the Golden Weapons. When Garmadon took the weapons, the ninjas lost their elemental powers. Interesting note, aside from their NRG forms, I don't think they ever use their elemental abilities without using their weapons to... channel them I guess? One reason why I think no one else has ever had an NRG form is because there were only 4 Golden Weapons, and it is quite possible that they gave the ninja the NRG powers. Perhaps the ninja had not yet fully unlocked their elemental powers (outside of Spinjitzu.)

 

Later on in the Temple of Light, the ninja obtain the elemental blades, which, like the Golden Weapons, can apparently channel their elemental powers. After the big Lloyd Vs. Overlord battle, it is implied that the elemental blades were destroyed along with the Stone Army in the big explosion of light. Once again, the ninja don't have full control over their elements outside of Spinjitzu.

 

And then the ninja return to the Temple of Light, where Lloyd sacrifices his golden power to give them elemental powers. Perhaps this unlocked/jumpstarted the powers they already had?

 

And if we go back in time, we will remember the Tornado of Creation, something created by combining all 4 elements. Except that there's way more than four. I'm guessing that Sensei Wu told them "all 4" because he was trying to hide the fact that there were other elemental people out there. So I think that a Tornado of Creation doesn't need every element. It just needs four. Kind of like how a Toa Seal only requires 6 Toa using their elemental powers.

 

That also brings us back to the whole Golden Weapons thing. Apparently if you want to create stuff you only need the power of four elements. Which is kind of funny, since turning Chen and his followers into Anacondrai took 17, including Lloyd's power. (Interesting thing to note is that there are actually more elements, because during a flashback an Elemental Master was shown using WATER. Perhaps the transformation spell, without Lloyd, would have required the power of water.)

 

And then there's Zane. Zane has elemental ice powers but... HE'S A ROBOT. I do have one theory that could explain his powers, though. Dr. Julien, Zane's creator/father, could have had elemental powers, and given them to Zane. This actually plays into Zane's mysterious power source, which Zane might actually have recreated when he rebuilt himself. Perhaps his power source was some sort of elemental crystal...

 

WAIT. THAT'S IT. That's why Zane could no longer do Spinjitzu when he gave half his heart to Pixal! It could have damaged his elemental powers somehow! Apparently though, Zane was able to rebuild it when he rebuilt himself.

 

Ok, so jumping back to the Elemental Masters, it seems like there should be at least 1 generation if not more between the ninja and the first elemental masters. The Elemental Master of Fire was probably not Kai's father. And I'm very certain that Dr. Julien wasn't the Elemental Master of Ice, so there has to be at least one generation between the masters and the ninja. Judging by the ages of Wu & Garmadon during the First Serpentine Wars, they were probably younger than most of the elemental masters, but that still makes them quite old. And judging by what Misako has said, Lloyd must have already been born when Garmadon was banished to the Underworld, but during the minisode where we see that happen, the brothers look no older than 35, so obviously he must have grown a beard within 10 years, which is possible, I guess. Perhaps when people get 40 in Ninjago they're suddenly old? Maybe its like how when minifigures reach a certain age their legs just sprout up. Yeah, that's it. Also, the Overlord said he was planning out the Final Battle for thousands of years. How old was the First Spinjitzu Master when he had children? It was obvious he was pretty old (If I remember correctly he had a beard from the one flashback we saw him in.), but just how old was he? Perhaps the First Spinjitzu Master was thousands of years old. Or maybe the Overlord was just taking advantage of Lloyd's lack of history knowledge and just trying to make himself sound powerful, which would make sense, seeing as that he is a villain. And also, the First Spinjitzu Master had to have had a wife to have children, so obviously there were other people around who were not his descendants before he created Ninjago? Which brings us back to the question of what was there before Ninjago?

 

Also, as for the Ultra Dragon, it just sort of disappeared after the Lloyd VS. Overlord battle. It's only mentioned once during the Rebooted season, and it is implied it was still alive. Maybe it died during the Rebooted season? Maybe it migrated north or something? (After all, the 4 separate dragons migrated, so maybe the Ultra Dragon will come back as the Ultra Ultra Dragon or something...  )

 

I think that this could explain most of everything. Well, maybe not the whole time travel thing... but time travel hardly ever makes any sense anyway.

[Smitty]

Zane is a robot that has elemental powers? Then they all must be robots, but they can reproduce in the same way as humans... My crazy theory, The First Spinjuitzu Master was a human, he and a group of humans came to Ninjago and reformed the planet into something that they could live on. They had brought with them several "synthoids" artificially made people, the elememtal master, and a few others. TFSM took a wife and had Wu and Garmadon. The Serpentine were the original inhabitants of Ninjago that's why there was a war brewing that Chin set off just as they were coming to a truce, Much of the history that Wu and Garmadon know is made up by their father, most of it is true but the time line is exaggerated.

[The 1st Shadow]

So why do we assume that the First Spinjitzu Master was the only guy around when Ninjago was created? Wu & Garmadon are obviously his descendants, but apparently the First Spinjitzu Master had helpers or something called the Elemental Masters. They're not his descendants. This seems to imply that there was something there before Ninjago was created.

 

Going back to when the ninja first got elemental powers, it was because they had the Golden Weapons. When Garmadon took the weapons, the ninjas lost their elemental powers. Interesting note, aside from their NRG forms, I don't think they ever use their elemental abilities without using their weapons to... channel them I guess? One reason why I think no one else has ever had an NRG form is because there were only 4 Golden Weapons, and it is quite possible that they gave the ninja the NRG powers. Perhaps the ninja had not yet fully unlocked their elemental powers (outside of Spinjitzu.)

 

Later on in the Temple of Light, the ninja obtain the elemental blades, which, like the Golden Weapons, can apparently channel their elemental powers. After the big Lloyd Vs. Overlord battle, it is implied that the elemental blades were destroyed along with the Stone Army in the big explosion of light. Once again, the ninja don't have full control over their elements outside of Spinjitzu.

 

And then the ninja return to the Temple of Light, where Lloyd sacrifices his golden power to give them elemental powers. Perhaps this unlocked/jumpstarted the powers they already had?

 

And if we go back in time, we will remember the Tornado of Creation, something created by combining all 4 elements. Except that there's way more than four. I'm guessing that Sensei Wu told them "all 4" because he was trying to hide the fact that there were other elemental people out there. So I think that a Tornado of Creation doesn't need every element. It just needs four. Kind of like how a Toa Seal only requires 6 Toa using their elemental powers.

 

That also brings us back to the whole Golden Weapons thing. Apparently if you want to create stuff you only need the power of four elements. Which is kind of funny, since turning Chen and his followers into Anacondrai took 17, including Lloyd's power. (Interesting thing to note is that there are actually more elements, because during a flashback an Elemental Master was shown using WATER. Perhaps the transformation spell, without Lloyd, would have required the power of water.)

 

And then there's Zane. Zane has elemental ice powers but... HE'S A ROBOT. I do have one theory that could explain his powers, though. Dr. Julien, Zane's creator/father, could have had elemental powers, and given them to Zane. This actually plays into Zane's mysterious power source, which Zane might actually have recreated when he rebuilt himself. Perhaps his power source was some sort of elemental crystal...

 

WAIT. THAT'S IT. That's why Zane could no longer do Spinjitzu when he gave half his heart to Pixal! It could have damaged his elemental powers somehow! Apparently though, Zane was able to rebuild it when he rebuilt himself.

 

Ok, so jumping back to the Elemental Masters, it seems like there should be at least 1 generation if not more between the ninja and the first elemental masters. The Elemental Master of Fire was probably not Kai's father. And I'm very certain that Dr. Julien wasn't the Elemental Master of Ice, so there has to be at least one generation between the masters and the ninja. Judging by the ages of Wu & Garmadon during the First Serpentine Wars, they were probably younger than most of the elemental masters, but that still makes them quite old. And judging by what Misako has said, Lloyd must have already been born when Garmadon was banished to the Underworld, but during the minisode where we see that happen, the brothers look no older than 35, so obviously he must have grown a beard within 10 years, which is possible, I guess. Perhaps when people get 40 in Ninjago they're suddenly old? Maybe its like how when minifigures reach a certain age their legs just sprout up. Yeah, that's it. Also, the Overlord said he was planning out the Final Battle for thousands of years. How old was the First Spinjitzu Master when he had children? It was obvious he was pretty old (If I remember correctly he had a beard from the one flashback we saw him in.), but just how old was he? Perhaps the First Spinjitzu Master was thousands of years old. Or maybe the Overlord was just taking advantage of Lloyd's lack of history knowledge and just trying to make himself sound powerful, which would make sense, seeing as that he is a villain. And also, the First Spinjitzu Master had to have had a wife to have children, so obviously there were other people around who were not his descendants before he created Ninjago? Which brings us back to the question of what was there before Ninjago?

 

Also, as for the Ultra Dragon, it just sort of disappeared after the Lloyd VS. Overlord battle. It's only mentioned once during the Rebooted season, and it is implied it was still alive. Maybe it died during the Rebooted season? Maybe it migrated north or something? (After all, the 4 separate dragons migrated, so maybe the Ultra Dragon will come back as the Ultra Ultra Dragon or something...  )

 

I think that this could explain most of everything. Well, maybe not the whole time travel thing... but time travel hardly ever makes any sense anyway.

I like the theory about Zane's power source. However, that's the only theory that holds water. Every other instance I named was explicitly stated by multiple characters over the course of each story. 

 

Presumably, it was just a barren wasteland. We know the Overlord was there with his stone army, but TFSM defeated him, and used his power to build up Ninjago. No one else was involved. These other elements have just come up out of nowhere. Also, a lot of the stuff that the Senseis didn't tell the ninja about sounds like they just made it up for the sake of fitting into the sets. Very little of it actually matches up with any pre-established canon.

[Banana Gunz]

Consistency in Lego story themes? Never heard of it.

 

But yeah, it's sad that there isn't so much continuity in the story. A lot of the stuff they add is cool, but so much of it ends up not fitting. It's just fun to watch the episodes and go with what they give you, because it's still a lot of fun and the episodes are really well done, especially now.

[UnderscoreChronix]

Couldn't Chen just modify Fangpyre venom or something instead of holding a fake tournament and eventually stealing the power of the elemental masters to do the spell?

 

Or couldn't he have just taken everyone's powers right there and then when they were all gathered in the room before the tournament began in the first episode?

Edited February 12, 2015 by Toa Chronix

[Smitty]

Couldn't Chen just modify Fangpyre venom or something instead of holding a fake tournament and eventually stealing the power of the elemental masters to do the spell?

 

Or couldn't he have just taken everyone's powers right there and then when they were all gathered in the room before the tournament began in the first episode?

Chen love the theatrics and drama he created with the ruse and farce of the tournament.

[The 1st Shadow]

Just got myself caught up on some of the newer episodes. There's one small detail that adds to this whole issue that came up.

 

When Lloyd and Garmadon were discussing the Serpentine Wars, Garmadon said that the snakes were forced underground. However, during the Rebooted story, Skales revealed that the snakes chose to separate themselves from the surface-dwellers, and hid themselves away. 

 

So, during the Serpentine story arc, the snakes were forced underground. Some time later,we learn that this was a lie, and the snakes hid on their own. Now, they're back to telling the old story again. 

 

 

 

Hm... Make that two things. In Garmadon's flashback, all the Anacondrai have tails instead of legs, where in the other tribes, only the generals have tails while the rest have legs.

 

 

Continuity---this line has none.

[Petewa]

My theory is simple, the first spinjitzu master had created Ninjago and countless people within it, with little else to do, he grew bored, placing temples and prophecies all over the place, but then he realized, that if his prophecies were to come true, he would need to grant others with his powers, so he gathered his most faithful of people, and granted them each with an elemental power to wield. Several thousands of years later, he was bored again, and decided to have kids, and he did. Misako was already pregnant when Garmadon was banished, and Lloyd was born not too long afterwards. The ninja were trained, and gathered, they collected the four golden weapons, and the whole time-traveling stuff wonked up their timeline, putting them into an amalgaverse between the original storyline and the time-travel storyline, in which there were no golden weapons.

[Zeb]

Just got myself caught up on some of the newer episodes. There's one small detail that adds to this whole issue that came up.

 

When Lloyd and Garmadon were discussing the Serpentine Wars, Garmadon said that the snakes were forced underground. However, during the Rebooted story, Skales revealed that the snakes chose to separate themselves from the surface-dwellers, and hid themselves away. 

 

So, during the Serpentine story arc, the snakes were forced underground. Some time later,we learn that this was a lie, and the snakes hid on their own. Now, they're back to telling the old story again. 

 

 

 

Hm... Make that two things. In Garmadon's flashback, all the Anacondrai have tails instead of legs, where in the other tribes, only the generals have tails while the rest have legs.

 

 

Continuity---this line has none.

Actually Skales was NOT referring to the Serpentine Wars when he said the Serpentine had decided to hide underground. The Serpentine WERE forced underground and this was confirmed by the snakes themselves multiple times. Here's a quick snake-story-timeline:

• First Serpentine Wars
• Serpentine forced trapped underground
• Lloyd frees the Serpentine
• Pythor & Serpentine VS. Ninja
• Garmadon beats up the Great Devourer
• Garmadon & Serpentine VS. Ninja
• Garmadon gets kicked into the ocean
• Serpentine go looking underground for reasons I can't remember
• Serpentine find Stone Army chamber and open it
• Stone Army run out of chamber and lock the Serpentine in it. All the Serpentine are trapped again.
• Lloyd VS. Overlord
• Presumably after the "Final Battle" the Stone Army tomb was unlocked? (It was said to be made of an almost indestructible material or something)
• 2014 begins, and the ninja find the snakes hiding underground in the former Stone army tomb, only going up to the surface for newspapers and groceries. This is what Skales was referring to.
• Zane VS. Overlord
• Snakes help the citizens of Ninjago
• Snakes go to live in the city with everyone else

I'm going to assume that since the story has put so much emphasis on the Anacondrai being super powerful and the toughest of all tribes that either all Anacondrai have tails or every one shown in the flashbacks were generals. The Anacondrai had a lot of generals. Actually, what if they were all generals? What if the whole general-thing doesn't apply to the Anacondrai because they all rank the same and so thus all have tails? This I'm not so sure about.

 

Also, there's no way the writers can have a season that focuses so much on the fact that Zane is a robot, and then have season saying the ninja all inherited their elemental powers. ESPECIALLY when Zane is even more obviously a robot than ever before. There has to be a reason, because there is no way they overlooked that. Maybe next season will reveal that Zane's father somehow transferred his ice powers to him or something.

 

I just watch the show, and if there seems to be any inconsistencies, think through every possibility and invent a theory that explains it.

[The 1st Shadow]

 

Just got myself caught up on some of the newer episodes. There's one small detail that adds to this whole issue that came up.

 

When Lloyd and Garmadon were discussing the Serpentine Wars, Garmadon said that the snakes were forced underground. However, during the Rebooted story, Skales revealed that the snakes chose to separate themselves from the surface-dwellers, and hid themselves away. 

 

So, during the Serpentine story arc, the snakes were forced underground. Some time later,we learn that this was a lie, and the snakes hid on their own. Now, they're back to telling the old story again. 

 

 

 

Hm... Make that two things. In Garmadon's flashback, all the Anacondrai have tails instead of legs, where in the other tribes, only the generals have tails while the rest have legs.

 

 

Continuity---this line has none.

Actually Skales was NOT referring to the Serpentine Wars when he said the Serpentine had decided to hide underground. The Serpentine WERE forced underground and this was confirmed by the snakes themselves multiple times. Here's a quick snake-story-timeline:

 

I seem to recall him saying that they chose to hide both times. Source, please?

[Smitty]

All the anicondri have tail but only one had a long neck.

[Zeb]

 

 

Just got myself caught up on some of the newer episodes. There's one small detail that adds to this whole issue that came up.

 

When Lloyd and Garmadon were discussing the Serpentine Wars, Garmadon said that the snakes were forced underground. However, during the Rebooted story, Skales revealed that the snakes chose to separate themselves from the surface-dwellers, and hid themselves away. 

 

So, during the Serpentine story arc, the snakes were forced underground. Some time later,we learn that this was a lie, and the snakes hid on their own. Now, they're back to telling the old story again. 

 

 

 

Hm... Make that two things. In Garmadon's flashback, all the Anacondrai have tails instead of legs, where in the other tribes, only the generals have tails while the rest have legs.

 

 

Continuity---this line has none.

Actually Skales was NOT referring to the Serpentine Wars when he said the Serpentine had decided to hide underground. The Serpentine WERE forced underground and this was confirmed by the snakes themselves multiple times. Here's a quick snake-story-timeline:

 

I seem to recall him saying that they chose to hide both times. Source, please?

 

Throughout the snake season the Serpentine would say things like "Now we will get our revenge on the people who locked us underground" and such. In the episode before "The Day Ninjago Stood Still", the Snakes wind up getting (supposedly permanently) trapped in the Stone Army tomb. When the ninja show up later in the Rebooted season, the Snakes apparently are not trapped there anymore (I'm guessing the seal to the tomb was broken when Lloyd beat the Overlord?), but have chosen to stay there hidden from the people above. And besides, its quite obvious the Snakes wanted to be freed back in the first season. They never locked themselves in either of the tombs on purpose.

 

Also, the Snakes actually went to hide in the Fangpyre tomb when the Great Devourer was unleashed (though obviously not lock it), but then came out after it exploded.

[The 1st Shadow]

Throughout the snake season the Serpentine would say things like "Now we will get our revenge on the people who locked us underground" and such. In the episode before "The Day Ninjago Stood Still", the Snakes wind up getting (supposedly permanently) trapped in the Stone Army tomb. When the ninja show up later in the Rebooted season, the Snakes apparently are not trapped there anymore (I'm guessing the seal to the tomb was broken when Lloyd beat the Overlord?), but have chosen to stay there hidden from the people above. And besides, its quite obvious the Snakes wanted to be freed back in the first season. They never locked themselves in either of the tombs on purpose.

 

Also, the Snakes actually went to hide in the Fangpyre tomb when the Great Devourer was unleashed (though obviously not lock it), but then came out after it exploded.

 

I was talking about when the ninja went down to visit the snakes. Skales recounted their history, and said that they hid in the tombs to get away from the war. However, after many generations and many years, they grew nuts and wanted nothing more than to get out and stretch, so to speak.

[fishers64]

Since when do we expect snakes to tell the truth? I think a "Makuta lies" explanation is on order.

Edited February 25, 2015 by fishers64

[The 1st Shadow]

Since when to we expect snakes to tell the truth? I think a "Makuta lies" explanation is on order.

History belongs to the victor, they say. If the snakes lost, then the surfacers would be welcome to tell whatever story they wanted, as so often seems to happen in our world.

[Torchbearer]

My advice? Just don't think about it. There's so many continuity errors (season 4 has been the worst for this), retconned retcons, shoehorned plot devices, deus ex machinas and ridiculous new plot elements that don't even make any sense! Some things can be reconciled, such as Lloyd being born before Garmadon was banished. But then there's other things, like the entire plot of Winter 2015 being shoehorned into the timeline.

 

Or give up. That's another option too.

[Smitty]

Just repeat to yourself it's just a show, I should really just relax.

[Zeb]

 

Throughout the snake season the Serpentine would say things like "Now we will get our revenge on the people who locked us underground" and such. In the episode before "The Day Ninjago Stood Still", the Snakes wind up getting (supposedly permanently) trapped in the Stone Army tomb. When the ninja show up later in the Rebooted season, the Snakes apparently are not trapped there anymore (I'm guessing the seal to the tomb was broken when Lloyd beat the Overlord?), but have chosen to stay there hidden from the people above. And besides, its quite obvious the Snakes wanted to be freed back in the first season. They never locked themselves in either of the tombs on purpose.

 

Also, the Snakes actually went to hide in the Fangpyre tomb when the Great Devourer was unleashed (though obviously not lock it), but then came out after it exploded.

 

I was talking about when the ninja went down to visit the snakes. Skales recounted their history, and said that they hid in the tombs to get away from the war. However, after many generations and many years, they grew nuts and wanted nothing more than to get out and stretch, so to speak.

 

Whoa... I need to go rewatch that episode sometime, because that is really confusing...

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

Mayb i should actually watch ninjago, if only for this hilarious chronology that apparently bests bionicle in retcons and oversights. :u

[Petewa]

Mayb i should actually watch ninjago, if only for this hilarious chronology that apparently bests bionicle in retcons and oversights. :u

Watch it anyways, dictator Petewa demands it.

[The 1st Shadow]

Mayb i should actually watch ninjago, if only for this hilarious chronology that apparently bests bionicle in retcons and oversights. :u

Bionicle seems perfect in comparison to the Ninjago series. The information given only makes sense if you forget the previous story even happened.

[fishers64]

Everything after Lloyd defeats the Overlord: Logic-missing contradictions.

 

Even Chima does better keeping the facts straight. 

[Aanchir]

Just got myself caught up on some of the newer episodes. There's one small detail that adds to this whole issue that came up.

 

When Lloyd and Garmadon were discussing the Serpentine Wars, Garmadon said that the snakes were forced underground. However, during the Rebooted story, Skales revealed that the snakes chose to separate themselves from the surface-dwellers, and hid themselves away.

 

So, during the Serpentine story arc, the snakes were forced underground. Some time later,we learn that this was a lie, and the snakes hid on their own. Now, they're back to telling the old story again.

Which just proves the point I've been trying to make for a while — the story never actually changed. Skales's story was just the Serpentine version of the story, while the other story is how the people of Ninjago remember it. The existence of the ancient flutes supports the notion that the people's story was the authentic one.

 

It's just a classic case of historical revisionism. The whole point of the Serpentine's account of events was that it was supposed to be extremely dubious, but contained a glimmer of truth in the form of the legend of the Golden Master. You encounter the same thing in real life all the time — one conflict, one sequence of events, but the two sides in that conflict remember those events quite differently.

 

Everything after Lloyd defeats the Overlord: Logic-missing contradictions.

 

Even Chima does better keeping the facts straight.

I have yet to encounter a single universe-breaking contradiction or retcon in the Ninjago story. That doesn't mean there's never any confusion. Case in point, the most confusing episode ever, "Wrong Place, Wrong Time" (which, need I remind you, happened well BEFORE Lloyd defeated the Overlord). Some aspects of that have been cleared up after-the-fact (such as the revelation in "Codename: Arcturus" that the golden weapons and Mega-Weapon were literally shot into space), but in general it's still a bit of a muddle. Still, it had no lingering consequences to the overarching story.

 

For those mentioning that BIONICLE kept things straighter, it's worth remembering that a lot of that is because Greg's constant interaction with fans gave him never-ending opportunities to retcon whatever it took to reconcile any contradictions that emerged in his own stories.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Aanchir

[fishers64]

I forgot the best theory of all: Ninjago Rebooted was an actual reboot where the previous continuity didn't happen.

[UnderscoreChronix]

In one of the last episodes of season 5, when Skylar and Garmadon get to Ninjago city with the elemental masters, everyone starts getting scared of them and running away because they look like Serpentine - One problem. Why? The Serpentine often went to the surface to buy groceries and stuff, and they protected the people by inviting them underground when the ninja were fighting the overlord in rebooted. Did everyone just forget and think the snakes were evil again or something? 

[Aanchir]

In one of the last episodes of season 5, when Skylar and Garmadon get to Ninjago city with the elemental masters, everyone starts getting scared of them and running away because they look like Serpentine - One problem. Why? The Serpentine often went to the surface to buy groceries and stuff, and they protected the people by inviting them underground when the ninja were fighting the overlord in rebooted. Did everyone just forget and think the snakes were evil again or something?

Maybe the people of Ninjago have heard enough about Serpentine to know that the Anacondrai Serpentine are especially bad news.

 

There's also something to be said for the persistence of prejudice. The Serpentine may interact with the people of Ninjago in their day to day lives, and they made an extremely benevolent gesture by helping the people of Ninjago to evacuate when the Overlord attacked, but that doesn't mean that all the people of Ninjago are best pals with them. They are still basically outsiders, much as many first-generation immigrants are in real-life cities. They live in their own little underground ghetto and only come to the surface to shop for necessities. It goes without saying that an entourage of people who look like Serpentine openly entering the city might still be viewed with fear or suspicion.

 

I don't know whether that makes sense in context, as I haven't seen the episode in question.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Aanchir

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

Mayb i should actually watch ninjago, if only for this hilarious chronology that apparently bests bionicle in retcons and oversights. :u

Same here, I find all this confusion rather hilarious! And what recons for BIONICLE art thou talking about?

[Torchbearer]

 

Just got myself caught up on some of the newer episodes. There's one small detail that adds to this whole issue that came up.

 

When Lloyd and Garmadon were discussing the Serpentine Wars, Garmadon said that the snakes were forced underground. However, during the Rebooted story, Skales revealed that the snakes chose to separate themselves from the surface-dwellers, and hid themselves away.

 

So, during the Serpentine story arc, the snakes were forced underground. Some time later,we learn that this was a lie, and the snakes hid on their own. Now, they're back to telling the old story again.

Which just proves the point I've been trying to make for a while — the story never actually changed. Skales's story was just the Serpentine version of the story, while the other story is how the people of Ninjago remember it. The existence of the ancient flutes supports the notion that the people's story was the authentic one.

 

It's just a classic case of historical revisionism. The whole point of the Serpentine's account of events was that it was supposed to be extremely dubious, but contained a glimmer of truth in the form of the legend of the Golden Master. You encounter the same thing in real life all the time — one conflict, one sequence of events, but the two sides in that conflict remember those events quite differently.

 

Everything after Lloyd defeats the Overlord: Logic-missing contradictions.

 

Even Chima does better keeping the facts straight.

I have yet to encounter a single universe-breaking contradiction or retcon in the Ninjago story.

 

Really? I would have thought you had seen the latest episode (episode 35, it aired in the US) by now. Every episode prior to episode 35 gets absolutely butchered.

 

But, for the more pointless (and annoying) retcons, there's quite a few to go around. And completely unexplained plotholes. And ridiculous plot elements. And reducing entire characters into nothing more than annoying screensavers for computers. Twice.

 

Oh, and the story actually did change for after the Devourer was obliterated. We saw the Serpentine plotting to take over Ninjago City, we saw Skales scream "NOOOOOOO" and get their buts kicked by the Stone Army before beings sealed underground against their will yet again. And we still have no explanation for how the tomb opened, if it had anything to do with Lloyd the place would have been obliterated.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Torchbearer

[Aanchir]

And we still have no explanation for how the tomb opened, if it had anything to do with Lloyd the place would have been obliterated.

That's a pretty huge (and completely arbitrary) assumption to make. For all we know, it could be that the gate was enchanted somehow and became possible to break open after the Overlord's defeat. Or that the energy Lloyd's battle with the Overlord broke the seal. Or even that the seal was broken during the Overlord's siege of Ninjago City. A lack of an official explanation doesn't mean that those events can't be explained.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Aanchir

[Torchbearer]

 

And we still have no explanation for how the tomb opened, if it had anything to do with Lloyd the place would have been obliterated.

That's a pretty huge (and completely arbitrary) assumption to make. For all we know, it could be that the gate was enchanted somehow and became possible to break open after the Overlord's defeat. Or that the energy Lloyd's battle with the Overlord broke the seal. Or even that the seal was broken during the Overlord's siege of Ninjago City. A lack of an official explanation doesn't mean that those events can't be explained.

 

And that's also a pretty huge assumption to make. A lack of an official explanation means we have no canon explanation. Not like a canon explanation would matter anyway, seeing as it would just get retconned three episodes later (and yes, I do have evidence of such a thing happening in the past with NINJAGO).

 

Just because there is no official explanation does not mean fanon or headcanon can give an adequate explanation, especially in this scenario. When the tomb was shut, the door came down from the top, and no seal was ever placed. But then suddenly it's got a massive crack and has been almost shattered, with the tomb having been opened from the interior. Lloyd's powers certainly didn't do that, especially after he obliterated the Stone Army bar one, and it's been clearly established that the Serpentine were never capable of opening the tomb.

 

It's a plot hole that's likely never going to be explained, or even touched upon again (like Zane's power source, unless it was created by evil now-ghost warriors). There's far too many of these in NINJAGO, and at least with Chima the minisodes often explained why something was the way it was, such as the Lion Beast's armor.

[Ptah]

I feel a tinge of pity for those going through Lego's wacky retconning.  When Bionicle went through it , I cut TLG some slack since this was the first time doing something like this.  15 years on there really is not excuse for this. 

 

As others will tell you, the retconning comes from each year's toyline being developed while the lore-relevant episodes are being created and aired.  (No mention of the Snakes during the Golden Weapons, No mention of the Overlord during the Serpentine, etc.)  My beef with Lego is that instead of just rebooting the series (same names but new situation) , they tinker with the history and make the whole series weaker for it. 

 

My fan-continuity goes like this:

Season 1

Ninja vs Boneheads for the Golden Weapons.

 

Season 2

Ninja receive a distress call from a distant land.

After debating whether to leave Ninjago unprotected, they travel to this new land to fight the Serpentine.

Ninja vs Serpentine, in the process discover the Green Ninja meant to protect this land.

Ninja defeat the Snakes and return home.

 

Season 3

Ninja return and find that much of Ninjago is occupied by the Shadow Army

Ninja suspect Garmadon, but he is enslaved to a darker force The Overlord.

The Ninja lose ground as they are outnumbered and outgunned.

Overlord is looking for some means to stay in this dimension. Ninja search for the same thing to send him back.

Ninja find the magic object, but the Overlord has possessed Garmadon and stays.

Ninja lose Ninjago

 

Season 4

Ninja fallback to Snakelands.

They recover and recruit warriors to take back their home.

Ninja lead army to fight the Shadow Army rebuilt as nindroids

Ninja vs Overlord  the Overlord is defeated (and stays defeated)

The end.

 

Just my fan theory

[MarkSurge9411]

Consistency in Lego story themes? Never heard of it.

It's called Bionicle.

[dotcom]

 

Consistency in Lego story themes? Never heard of it.

It's called Bionicle.

 

That is a funny joke! But it's also incorrect. The first couple of years in particular had a bit of media and general...stuff that ended up getting thrown out, which resulted for instance in the "semi-canon" status of stuff like the MNOG.

[fishers64]

I like to think of Hero Factory as consistently bad. 

[Quisoves Potoo]

 

 

Consistency in Lego story themes? Never heard of it.

It's called Bionicle.

 

That is a funny joke! But it's also incorrect. The first couple of years in particular had a bit of media and general...stuff that ended up getting thrown out, which resulted for instance in the "semi-canon" status of stuff like the MNOG.

 

Of course, MNOG is a rather complicated beast, in that regards. It was originally intended to be a non-canon promotion (or so I am given to understand) but became immensely popular, most fans seeing it (quite rightly) as the definitive BIONICLE experience. Not to mention it was forced to wrap up the 2001 story after that year's movie and video game fell through. Hence its later canonicity (or semi-canoncicity, or what you might.) 

 

Then of course, there's the movies, which were deemed mostly canon, but with a few deviations from continuity. Of course, with the exception of the "Mata Nui's awakening!" bit in MoL, most of the issues were either nitpicks or romance, which Greg Farshtey was staunchly opposed to in the inhabitants of the MU. And aside from Greg saying so, there's no reason to discard those bits.

 

In fact, if memory serves, most of the canonical discrepancies in the first five years of BIONICLE came from the conflict of Greg's vision of the story with that of others (e.g. Cathy Hapka.)

 

 

How Ninjago compares, in terms of retcons and the like, I'm not entirely sure. I've seen bits of episodes that my younger siblings watched, but I'm not a fan myself, so I'm hardly an expert. That said, I do get the impression that Ninjago likes to invoke, nay, copy, every pop-culture franchise and trope imaginable, which does lend credence to the frequent accusations of "retcons galore." Zane being a robot, for example, aside from being a probable Power Rangers ripoff, doesn't seem to have been planned or foreshadowed from the start. Then again, folks say this sort of thing about the Mata Nui revelation, so I may well be wrong.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Quisoves Potoo