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Ninjago History---Retconned?


The 1st Shadow

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" Zane being a robot, for example, aside from being a probable Power Rangers ripoff, doesn't seem to have been planned or foreshadowed from the start. 

 

It's even ignored some of the time, like when he turned into a kid or when they explained that every one got their powers for their blood line. That is what has lead me to believe that everyone is a robot.

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At some point you realize that you are but a speck in the Universe.


That you time in this worlds is but a blink.


You see the whole of reality as it unfolds before you.


You try to see how far you can reach, and it’s not that far past your face.


But then you come back from the brink.


You hold them in your arms again.


And you know that you are where their world begins.


You are their rock.

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Consistency in Lego story themes? Never heard of it. :P

It's called Bionicle.

That is a funny joke! But it's also incorrect. The first couple of years in particular had a bit of media and general...stuff that ended up getting thrown out, which resulted for instance in the "semi-canon" status of stuff like the MNOG.

Of course, MNOG is a rather complicated beast, in that regards. It was originally intended to be a non-canon promotion (or so I am given to understand) but became immensely popular, most fans seeing it (quite rightly) as the definitive BIONICLE experience. Not to mention it was forced to wrap up the 2001 story after that year's movie and video game fell through. Hence its later canonicity (or semi-canoncicity, or what you might.)

 

Then of course, there's the movies, which were deemed mostly canon, but with a few deviations from continuity. Of course, with the exception of the "Mata Nui's awakening!" bit in MoL, most of the issues were either nitpicks or romance, which Greg Farshtey was staunchly opposed to in the inhabitants of the MU. And aside from Greg saying so, there's no reason to discard those bits.

 

In fact, if memory serves, most of the canonical discrepancies in the first five years of BIONICLE came from the conflict of Greg's vision of the story with that of others (e.g. Cathy Hapka.)

 

 

How Ninjago compares, in terms of retcons and the like, I'm not entirely sure. I've seen bits of episodes that my younger siblings watched, but I'm not a fan myself, so I'm hardly an expert. That said, I do get the impression that Ninjago likes to invoke, nay, copy, every pop-culture franchise and trope imaginable, which does lend credence to the frequent accusations of "retcons galore." Zane being a robot, for example, aside from being a probable Power Rangers ripoff, doesn't seem to have been planned or foreshadowed from the start. Then again, folks say this sort of thing about the Mata Nui revelation, so I may well be wrong.

Zane's nature was almost unquestionably planned from the start. Nindroid enemies appeared in an early online game, suggesting that they existed in the initial story bible despite the term not appearing until the theme's second year. And Zane's origins were established as suspicious from the get-go—I seriously doubt that such a significant mystery would be implemented as core backstory for a main character without any idea of what the answer was.

 

The few retcons which have occurred aren't even that substantial, and most revolve around potentially unreliable accounts of ancient Ninjago legends. I expect we'll get definitive answers in this year's "World of Ninjago" guide, which apparently will include a full timeline of Ninjago's history.

Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

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 I expect we'll get definitive answers in this year's "World of Ninjago" guide, which apparently will include a full timeline of Ninjago's history.

 

It'll reveal that Wu is 1,000 years and lloyd is 253.

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At some point you realize that you are but a speck in the Universe.


That you time in this worlds is but a blink.


You see the whole of reality as it unfolds before you.


You try to see how far you can reach, and it’s not that far past your face.


But then you come back from the brink.


You hold them in your arms again.


And you know that you are where their world begins.


You are their rock.

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I like to think of Hero Factory as consistently bad.

Only thing that messed with the consistency was that fan made film made in 2014.

 

Geez LEGO, I get that you were running out of time, but turning to a fan to make the episode?

That... Didn't happen, though?

 

I mean, there were multiple fan video contests, but they never even pretended those were in continuity with the actual TV episodes.

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Zane's nature was almost unquestionably planned from the start. Nindroid enemies appeared in an early online game, suggesting that they existed in the initial story bible despite the term not appearing until the theme's second year. And Zane's origins were established as suspicious from the get-go.

Out of curiosity, how? As I mentioned before, my acquaintance with the story is somewhat limited.

 

I seriously doubt that such a significant mystery would be implemented as core backstory for a main character without any idea of what the answer was.

The impression I got was that there was no mystery until the 2012 story, though I guess that's not the case. That said, this is a LEGO theme we're talking about, so while that hardly excludes detailed, long-term plotting, it doesn't preclude the story team making things up as they go along.

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Zane's nature was almost unquestionably planned from the start. Nindroid enemies appeared in an early online game, suggesting that they existed in the initial story bible despite the term not appearing until the theme's second year. And Zane's origins were established as suspicious from the get-go.

Out of curiosity, how? As I mentioned before, my acquaintance with the story is somewhat limited.

 

I seriously doubt that such a significant mystery would be implemented as core backstory for a main character without any idea of what the answer was.

The impression I got was that there was no mystery until the 2012 story, though I guess that's not the case. That said, this is a LEGO theme we're talking about, so while that hardly excludes detailed, long-term plotting, it doesn't preclude the story team making things up as they go along.

 

The 2011 chapter books (particularly Zane: Ninja of Ice) made no secret of the fact that Zane had been discovered amnesiac in a small village, where he ended up helping out with odd jobs and making a name for himself based on his unique ability to meditate at the bottom of a frigid lake for extended periods. In particular, one storyline featured Garmadon trying to tempt Zane to betray the other Ninja and Sensei Wu with the false promise of revealing his origins.

 

While that alone doesn't totally confirm that Zane's unique nature was planned out from the start, it's unlikely that Lego would leave a mystery like that up to chance even while publically putting such an emphasis on it. And considering the aforementioned early debut of Nindroids in an online game (well before they would appear in the television series), it's likely that Zane's status as a highly sophisticated android was in the original story bible.

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

Aanchir's and Meiko's brother

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I like to think of Hero Factory as consistently bad.

Only thing that messed with the consistency was that fan made film made in 2014.

 

Geez LEGO, I get that you were running out of time, but turning to a fan to make the episode?

That... Didn't happen, though?

 

I mean, there were multiple fan video contests, but they never even pretended those were in continuity with the actual TV episodes.

 

Not sure you've heard of it, but the episode was called "Invasion From Below".

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Yeah that...wasn't fan made? It was just different people doing it.

I know that, but it was so bad I refuse to say Advance and Ghost made it, since they made such awesome Bionicle videos.

 

That's... stupid. You can't just invent your own facts to help you insult a theme you dislike. Invasion From Below may have been inconsistent with the rest of the episodes, but Advance and Ghost are directly responsible for a large part of that—so insulting Lego based on patent falsehoods is way out of line.

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

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Yeah that...wasn't fan made? It was just different people doing it.

I know that, but it was so bad I refuse to say Advance and Ghost made it, since they made such awesome Bionicle videos.

 

That's... stupid. You can't just invent your own facts to help you insult a theme you dislike. Invasion From Below may have been inconsistent with the rest of the episodes, but Advance and Ghost are directly responsible for a large part of that—so insulting Lego based on patent falsehoods is way out of line.

 

I liked the sets (and Hero Factory as a whole), just not the episode.

 

Besides, it's not like I'm going to preach it to the world or anything. I just refuse to believe Ghost and Advance made it.

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Consistency in Lego story themes? Never heard of it. :P

It's called Bionicle.

 

That is a funny joke! But it's also incorrect. The first couple of years in particular had a bit of media and general...stuff that ended up getting thrown out, which resulted for instance in the "semi-canon" status of stuff like the MNOG.

 

The only thing I can think of that could be retconned would be "Tales of the Masks", since it took place between the time the Bohrok Kal stole the Suva Stones and their retrieval.

 

Or not, IDK.

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  • 1 month later...

My thought?  Watch all of the episodes or go to Ninjago wiki to find out about anything you are thinking about.


 

 

Yeah that...wasn't fan made? It was just different people doing it.

I know that, but it was so bad I refuse to say Advance and Ghost made it, since they made such awesome Bionicle videos.

 


That's... stupid. You can't just invent your own facts to help you insult a theme you dislike. Invasion From Below may have been inconsistent with the rest of the episodes, but Advance and Ghost are directly responsible for a large part of that—so insulting Lego based on patent falsehoods is way out of line.

 

You can.  Its called "thinking" :P .  Just kidding.  But you are right...

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Let's see what happens in the summer and possibly in the 2016 movie.

You keep saying "2016 movie"... you do realize it's been pushed back to 2017, right?

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

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I'm not sure that the First Spinjitzu Master was Wu's and Garmadon's father. Is that indeed the case? It doesn't seem to be clear. 

 

Even if Wu/Garmadon said they were, that could be to conceal the presence of the other Elemental Masters. Could be a "Makuta lies" explanation. 

The first Spinjitzu Master IS the father of Wu and Garmadon.  If you watched the show, then you would know a LOT about it.  Just like me and a few/many other people.

Okay, so I have a couple problems with the new story. Starting with the "masters of the elements."

 

 

So, where exactly do they fit in? We were told that they are descendants of the original masters of the elements, and that Cole, Kai, Jay, and Zane fit into this category.

 

How does this work, exactly? The First Spinjitzu Master, who was the father of Wu and Garmadon, formed Ninjago using the four elements, represented by the Golden Weapons. Why is there a problem with this? A few reasons.

 

One, because there were only four GWs, of the elements Earth, Fire, Lightning, and Ice. Somewhat related to this, there were only four elemental Dragons. You could argue that other Dragons exist, but we just haven't seen them.

 

Two, if TFSM is the father of Wu and Gamadon, both practitioners of the four elements of Spinjitzu, this would mean that the four ninja (and Nya) are descendants of him, as well. 

 

Three, if all these elemental masters have been passing down their powers through the generations for thousands of years, then how old are Wu and Garmadon? Their father was the guy who brought their land into existence, so that means that those two have incredible longevity.

 

However, that doesn't work. Why? One reason: Lloyd. When we first met him, Lloyd was a child, implying that he'd only been around for a few years. This doesn't work. We saw that picture of a younger Wu, Garmadon, and Misako. Garmadon was banished to the Underworld while he and Wu still looked young. This means that the "undead" version of Garmadon actually WAS able to leave the underworld, and he got Misako pregnant. However, we know they hadn't seen each other since before his fall, so that means that it couldn't have happened recently. 

 

 

Okay, I feel like I'm starting to bounce around a lot here, so I'l condense it:

 

Story 1--the Golden Weapons: Ninjago was created thousands of years ago by The First Spinjitzu Master, who was the father of Garmadon and Wu. Garmadon, presumably while he and Wu were still fairly young, fell into the Underworld, and was unable to leave it. Many decades later, after Wu had a chance to age, he trained four young men in the art of Spinjitzu, which manifested in four elements.

 

Story 2--Serpentine/Garmadon's mischief: Garmadon had a son with a woman named Misako before he fell into the Underworld. Lloyd was seen alongside the Ninja (who are depicted as being fairly young, themselves) while he was still just a kid (pre-teen or early teen). If the first story is to be believed, then Lloyd couldn't be Garmadon's son, or Garmadon spent only a few years in the Underworld, and Wu aged significantly in that amount of time. Already the timelines aren't adding up.

 

Story 3--The Overlord: This one mostly follows suit of the first two stories, taking into account the significance of the First Spinjitzu Master and the creation of Ninjago, as well as the importance of the elements (four elemental blades in the Temple of Light).

 

Story 4--Nindroids: Again, this one follows suit of the first few stories, with little retconning.

 

Story 5--Tournament of Elements: Okay, here's where things get screwy. Suddenly, the First Spinjitzu Master (who harnessed the powers of Fire, Earth, Lightning, and Ice, and subsequently passed it on to his sons) is related to Kai, Cole, Jay, and a robot who was built by some guy, and therefore can't bear a genetic connection to the element of Ice. And then there's all these other guys with different powers that have apparently been around since the time of TFSM. "Many generations," Garmadon tells the Ninja, even though there's been only two generations separating Lloyd from TFSM. What's worse is that no one seemed to know about these other powers, until it became convenient for Garmadon to reveal that they had always existed, without any indicators like Golden Weapons or having a hand in the formation of Ninjago. Another point that came up in another topic is that Lloyd is now the Master of Power, instead of Light/Creation, as he was from the moment he became the Green Ninja.

 

No story's perfect, but now they're barely trying to keep the lore consistent. What do you think? Is there something I missed?

 

Thoughts? Theories? Theatrics?

 "a robot who was built by some guy"

 

Really :bigeek: ??  That "some guy" is named Dr. Julien !!!   Honestly, look up the story on www.ninjagowiki.com but don't look it up on wikipedia.  That site has flase information.  I don't mean to sound rude about this.

 

All the anicondri have tail but only one had a long neck.

Because Pythor is the leader because he had his staff in episode 7, Tick Tock.  Just in case if you didn't know ;)  ;) .

My bad.  Ninjago wiki is basically ads for them, not the place for the story.

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 "a robot who was built by some guy"

 

Really :bigeek: ??  That "some guy" is named Dr. Julien !!!   Honestly, look up the story on www.ninjagowiki.com but don't look it up on wikipedia.  That site has flase information.  I don't mean to sound rude about this.

 

 

Kid, please read the context in which I wrote that. I know very well who Dr. Julien is. My point was that Zane is a robot that was built by someone, not an actual descendant of a person. I've watched all the episodes, and I know all the story, hence, why I made this topic to begin with.

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I'm not sure that the First Spinjitzu Master was Wu's and Garmadon's father. Is that indeed the case? It doesn't seem to be clear. 

 

Even if Wu/Garmadon said they were, that could be to conceal the presence of the other Elemental Masters. Could be a "Makuta lies" explanation. 

The first Spinjitzu Master IS the father of Wu and Garmadon.  If you watched the show, then you would know a LOT about it.  Just like me and a few/many other people.

I have actually watched the show. It's mentioned that the First Spinjitzu Master existed, and that Wu and Garmadon had a father, but nowhere is it mentioned that one = the other. At least, IIRC. 

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I'm not sure that the First Spinjitzu Master was Wu's and Garmadon's father. Is that indeed the case? It doesn't seem to be clear. 

 

Even if Wu/Garmadon said they were, that could be to conceal the presence of the other Elemental Masters. Could be a "Makuta lies" explanation. 

The first Spinjitzu Master IS the father of Wu and Garmadon.  If you watched the show, then you would know a LOT about it.  Just like me and a few/many other people.

I have actually watched the show. It's mentioned that the First Spinjitzu Master existed, and that Wu and Garmadon had a father, but nowhere is it mentioned that one = the other. At least, IIRC. 

 

It was during the Serpentine era. It was more shown than it was said. The shots of TFSM matched the image of Wu and Garmadon's father, and since they were suggested to be the same being, the appearance of the character just made it even more apparent. :)

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 "a robot who was built by some guy"

 

Really :bigeek: ??  That "some guy" is named Dr. Julien !!!   Honestly, look up the story on www.ninjagowiki.com but don't look it up on wikipedia.  That site has flase information.  I don't mean to sound rude about this.

 

 

Kid, please read the context in which I wrote that. I know very well who Dr. Julien is. My point was that Zane is a robot that was built by someone, not an actual descendant of a person. I've watched all the episodes, and I know all the story, hence, why I made this topic to begin with.

 

Oh.  Sorry then.  I didn't mean to sound rude or anything.  I just don't read one message that are paragraphs long.  I just read a portion of it(Like half way).  I am such an idiot sometimes.

 

 

 

I'm not sure that the First Spinjitzu Master was Wu's and Garmadon's father. Is that indeed the case? It doesn't seem to be clear. 

 

Even if Wu/Garmadon said they were, that could be to conceal the presence of the other Elemental Masters. Could be a "Makuta lies" explanation. 

The first Spinjitzu Master IS the father of Wu and Garmadon.  If you watched the show, then you would know a LOT about it.  Just like me and a few/many other people.

I have actually watched the show. It's mentioned that the First Spinjitzu Master existed, and that Wu and Garmadon had a father, but nowhere is it mentioned that one = the other. At least, IIRC. 

 

It was during the Serpentine era. It was more shown than it was said. The shots of TFSM matched the image of Wu and Garmadon's father, and since they were suggested to be the same being, the appearance of the character just made it even more apparent. :)

 

And when the story began, they said that the first Spinjitzu master gave the four golden weapons of Spinjitzu to his two sons, Garmadon, and Wu  ;) 

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I'm not sure that the First Spinjitzu Master was Wu's and Garmadon's father. Is that indeed the case? It doesn't seem to be clear. 

 

Even if Wu/Garmadon said they were, that could be to conceal the presence of the other Elemental Masters. Could be a "Makuta lies" explanation. 

The first Spinjitzu Master IS the father of Wu and Garmadon.  If you watched the show, then you would know a LOT about it.  Just like me and a few/many other people.

I have actually watched the show. It's mentioned that the First Spinjitzu Master existed, and that Wu and Garmadon had a father, but nowhere is it mentioned that one = the other. At least, IIRC. 

 

It was during the Serpentine era. It was more shown than it was said. The shots of TFSM matched the image of Wu and Garmadon's father, and since they were suggested to be the same being, the appearance of the character just made it even more apparent. :)

 

They out right say it when Lloyd finds the Gold Mech.

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At some point you realize that you are but a speck in the Universe.


That you time in this worlds is but a blink.


You see the whole of reality as it unfolds before you.


You try to see how far you can reach, and it’s not that far past your face.


But then you come back from the brink.


You hold them in your arms again.


And you know that you are where their world begins.


You are their rock.

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure that the First Spinjitzu Master was Wu's and Garmadon's father. Is that indeed the case? It doesn't seem to be clear. 

 

Even if Wu/Garmadon said they were, that could be to conceal the presence of the other Elemental Masters. Could be a "Makuta lies" explanation. 

The first Spinjitzu Master IS the father of Wu and Garmadon.  If you watched the show, then you would know a LOT about it.  Just like me and a few/many other people.

I have actually watched the show. It's mentioned that the First Spinjitzu Master existed, and that Wu and Garmadon had a father, but nowhere is it mentioned that one = the other. At least, IIRC. 

 

It was during the Serpentine era. It was more shown than it was said. The shots of TFSM matched the image of Wu and Garmadon's father, and since they were suggested to be the same being, the appearance of the character just made it even more apparent. :)

 

They out right say it when Lloyd finds the Gold Mech.

 

I'm pretty sure it's also mentioned in the very first episode when Wu is telling Kai about the history of Ninjago and the two brothers.

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  • 2 weeks later...

In Season 5 Episode 1, Morro wants the staff of the First Spinjitzu Master and I think Wu said something like 'You wont get my father's staff' or something like that.

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I'd like to remind everyone to please tag your spoilers! Season 5 has not even begun airing yet in the U.S., and I know myself and many other fans are waiting until the episodes air to watch them for the first time.

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

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I'd like to remind everyone to please tag your spoilers! Season 5 has not even begun airing yet in the U.S., and I know myself and many other fans are waiting until the episodes air to watch them for the first time.

I was starting to ask about this. IN another topic(The how do element powers work) in a post a plot list mentioned season 5 and Morrow so I was wondering if somehow I missed the premier or something. So it hasn't started airing in US yet.

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I'd like to remind everyone to please tag your spoilers! Season 5 has not even begun airing yet in the U.S., and I know myself and many other fans are waiting until the episodes air to watch them for the first time.

I was starting to ask about this. IN another topic(The how do element powers work) in a post a plot list mentioned season 5 and Morrow so I was wondering if somehow I missed the premier or something. So it hasn't started airing in US yet.

 

Nope, in the US it starts airing tomorrow, and there will be a new episode every weekday for the next two weeks. It's kind of a weird way to schedule new episodes, but apparently Cartoon Network has been doing this with a lot of their shows this summer.

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Wow I wish I had seen this post earlier then maybe I would have remember to look for it. Now I missed it on both CN-E and CN-W. Guess I could YouTube it. Somebody has to have uploaded it by now right? Thanks for the info Aanchir. You are definitely worthy of that Reporter title.... :D

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