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Takua's Pakari?


Irrie

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So, here's a quick question for you scholars to think on:

When Takua put the Avohkii on his face and transformed into Takanuva, what happened to his Matoran Mask? 

I can think of three possible answers to this. The first (and coolest IMO) is that the mask was fused to his face. The second was that it was simply destroyed in the process, and the third is that he took off his Matoran mask before donning the Avohkii (I'm not sure if it was ever specified if he removed his mask, but it seems to be the most likely solution to this). 

What do you guys think? 

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IIRC he never makes use of a Pakari outside of the other Toa's; so I'm fairly confident that it (wasn't already a Great mask, &) didn't 'level up' with him when he became a Toa, & as my explanation for the masks Toa get upon transformation just being 'excess' energy from the transformation, & I don't think the Avohkii was anything less than a great Mask, I'm going to presume he took it off before putting on the Avohkii...

 

But hey, maybe it just stayed 'Matoran level' & useless to him or he lost it early on... Or it fused to his face.

 

Or everyone just forgot about it >,>"

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It was never clearly stated what happened to his mask. In the movie, he put the Avohkii on over it, and it seemingly disappeared. Since he wasn't a Toa at the time, it wouldn't have transferred to a Suva (he wasn't connected to one, either). So, I think our best bet is that the Pakari simply got caught up in the transformation and indirectly fused with him. 

 

Now, I don't have the novel with me, (nor do I remember the exact wording off the top of my head) but I would suggest checking that to see if it says he removed the mask before donning the Avohkii. I suspect that would be the case, and he would have just set it somewhere special as a memorial of his time as a Matoran, or it was forgotten in all the goings-on with Makuta and such. 

Edited by The~1st~Shadow
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Well, the BS01 page only said "Takua placed the mask on his face, and was transformed into the fabled Toa of Light." It didn't say he removed his Pakari, so I'm sticking with my plot convenience theory.

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IIRC he never makes use of a Pakari outside of the other Toa's; so I'm fairly confident that it (wasn't already a Great mask, &) didn't 'level up' with him when he became a Toa, & as my explanation for the masks Toa get upon transformation just being 'excess' energy from the transformation, & I don't think the Avohkii was anything less than a great Mask, I'm going to presume he took it off before putting on the Avohkii...

 

But hey, maybe it just stayed 'Matoran level' & useless to him or he lost it early on... Or it fused to his face.

 

Or everyone just forgot about it >,>"

Well, it was a great powerless pakari, and Vakamas Great powerless huna leveled up, so obviously he has supa strength, and light powas

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IIRC he never makes use of a Pakari outside of the other Toa's; so I'm fairly confident that it (wasn't already a Great mask, &) didn't 'level up' with him when he became a Toa, & as my explanation for the masks Toa get upon transformation just being 'excess' energy from the transformation, & I don't think the Avohkii was anything less than a great Mask, I'm going to presume he took it off before putting on the Avohkii...

 

But hey, maybe it just stayed 'Matoran level' & useless to him or he lost it early on... Or it fused to his face.

 

Or everyone just forgot about it >,>"

Well, it was a great powerless pakari, and Vakamas Great powerless huna leveled up, so obviously he has supa strength, and light powas

 

That does explain Takutanuva being able to hold up that door,

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IIRC he never makes use of a Pakari outside of the other Toa's; so I'm fairly confident that it (wasn't already a Great mask, &) didn't 'level up' with him when he became a Toa, & as my explanation for the masks Toa get upon transformation just being 'excess' energy from the transformation, & I don't think the Avohkii was anything less than a great Mask, I'm going to presume he took it off before putting on the Avohkii...

 

But hey, maybe it just stayed 'Matoran level' & useless to him or he lost it early on... Or it fused to his face.

 

Or everyone just forgot about it >,>"

Well, it was a great powerless pakari, and Vakamas Great powerless huna leveled up, so obviously he has supa strength, and light powas

 

That does explain Takutanuva being able to hold up that door,

 

Exactly! :P

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Well, obviously, plot convenience is what happened to it.

In a nutshell, yes. 

 

 

IIRC he never makes use of a Pakari outside of the other Toa's; so I'm fairly confident that it (wasn't already a Great mask, &) didn't 'level up' with him when he became a Toa, & as my explanation for the masks Toa get upon transformation just being 'excess' energy from the transformation, & I don't think the Avohkii was anything less than a great Mask, I'm going to presume he took it off before putting on the Avohkii...

 

But hey, maybe it just stayed 'Matoran level' & useless to him or he lost it early on... Or it fused to his face.

 

Or everyone just forgot about it >,>"

Well, it was a great powerless pakari, and Vakamas Great powerless huna leveled up, so obviously he has supa strength, and light powas

 

Is it possible for MU inhabitants to wear multiple masks at the same time? (Like, overtop of each other). I know that they could in Tale of the Toa, but there's a lot of noncanon parts in that book. 

Edited by The Irrational Rock

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Now this is something worthy of going to Greg Farshety to! 

 

In my head canon, I have it as that he took the Pakari off and became a toa, then afterwards gave his mask to a matoran or turaga. After being brought back to life, Takua later made a suva in Metru-Nui (like the Toa Nuva), where he can summon his Pakari at will. The suva has since been relocated to Spherus Magna like everyone else's.

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Well, if I can recall correctly, don't the Toa Nuva themselves just keep putting on mask over mask and gain their powers?

 

Does that mean that Takua could possibly use the Pakari's mask power? The Avohkii was kind of just the catalyst to his transformation (as in if any Av-Matoran put on that mask they would transform, too)

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It's a Greg answer:

 

1)could the ignika’a powers be combined with matoros mahri mask (have trouble with mask names as you can tell) could someone truelly awak the dead?i know a toa can not use 2 masks at once (right?) but what if a being had that power?

 

1) Since no one can use two masks at a time, this can’t happen. 

 

1. So combining two masks together with the Spear of Fusion will not get you a mask with the two mask powers? 

1) Nope

 

1. Can anyone wear more than one mask? like vakama in lomn?   

 

  1) Yes, but it is not accepted practice 

 

1. Does that mean that Vakama was wearing the Vahi and the Huna at the same time? I assumed it was the movie team taking liberties with appearance to hide the Toa's face. If you actually can use two mask powers at the same time, it's a hugely important piece of information.   

 

  Big difference between wearing two masks and being able to use two mask powers. Not being ambidextrous, I can hold two pens, but not write legibly with both at the same time.

 

 

I've noticed from the first two movies that the characters can wear two masks at once.  How is this possible? How many Masks can one wear at once? Can all the powers be used in this case? 

 

Like you said, that is largely a movie thing -- it has only happened in the comics with the Vahi, which being a legendary mask, does not have to follow the same rules as normal masks. The only other exception was the Dume-Makuta situation, which I frankly saw as more him shapeshifting than doing what it appeared he was doing.

Bolded stuff is the most relevant. (emphasis mine)

 

As for the rest of it, we've been around this proverbial mountain before... 

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Is it possible for MU inhabitants to wear multiple masks at the same time? (Like, overtop of each other). I know that they could in Tale of the Toa, but there's a lot of noncanon parts in that book. 

 

 

 

I know I'm late, but in Comic 1: The Coming of the Toa, we see Kopaka put on a Hau & 'phases' back to his Akuku... it doesn't show him put the Hau on top of the Akuku but I figured that was implied; so the same thing as Takua in MoL, except that well... we do't hear from the Pakari again so yeah...

 

(Not even going into Suva's, but yeah, 'topics been done before)

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

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putting one mask over another was just a movie thing.

 

...Why? It wasn't a book thing, but as far as comics go here we have Kopaka changing Masks, & more importantly where in the comic do you see Takua putting the MoL directly onto his face?

 

As for the books ... don't some of the BIONICLE Chronicles have them putting a Mask on when they're in the middle of nowhere already with a Mask? Precinct for them automatically going to a/their Suvas? If so then ([{why}]) do they need to take the Mask off in the first place?!

 

"must have taken it off and put it away somewhere" doesn't actually explain why it's a must...

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

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There was a topic like this not too long ago...

 

Funny that out of all the mind-boggling questions about the complex lore, people get confused about clear artistic treatment. Nothing has to be confirmed here. The filmmakers didn't want to show the face under the masks, so they had him put the Avohkii on top of his Pakari. It should be treated as if his face was maskless, essentially. 

 

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I don't think it's too outlandish to think that it could've simply disappeared (even without "movie magic"  :P). I mean, the mask of light basically created an entirely new body for him, so it makes sense that his old mask would be lost along with the rest of his matoran form.

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Keep in mind that this same movie had weapons shrinking and appearing out of thin air.

 

Just like Masks in the everything! ;)

 

Seriously though, I haven't seen a media where he actually takes off his Pakari other than in the book MoL, & considering how much hate BIONICLE Chronicles gets, it seems pretty hypocritical to use it, especially when the comics ("the" highest canon?) don't show anything there;

 

Seems more logical that it's actually ambiguous unstated, & considering Masks can be swapped without taking one off, then why is putting one Mask on top of another such a big deal?!

 

There's a quote further up that many people seem to be ignoring:

 

1. Can anyone wear more than one mask? like vakama in lomn?
  1) Yes, but it is not accepted practice
 
Yes it's fair to point out the other issues in the movie, but it doesn't automatically mean this didn't happen in other~canon...
In the MoL book it had fallen off before, and just like every 'other' canon is never mentioned again.

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

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Keep in mind that this same movie had weapons shrinking and appearing out of thin air.

 

Just like Masks in the everything! ;)

 

Seriously though, I haven't seen a media where he actually takes off his Pakari other than in the book MoL, & considering how much hate BIONICLE Chronicles gets, it seems pretty hypocritical to use it, especially when the comics ("the" highest canon?) don't show anything there;

 

Seems more logical that it's actually ambiguous unstated, & considering Masks can be swapped without taking one off, then why is putting one Mask on top of another such a big deal?!

 

There's a quote further up that many people seem to be ignoring:

 

1. Can anyone wear more than one mask? like vakama in lomn?
  1) Yes, but it is not accepted practice
 
Yes it's fair to point out the other issues in the movie, but it doesn't automatically mean this didn't happen in other~canon...
In the MoL book it had fallen off before, and just like every 'other' canon is never mentioned again.

 

 

 

Actually, no. In the novelization, he still puts the Avohkii on over his Pakari.

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Actually, no. In the novelization, he still puts the Avohkii on over his Pakari.

 

 

Welp I that read wrong. (Dropped the mask not dropped his mask)

Well, definitely not just a movie thing then.

So is there any canon which depicts Takua putting the Avohkii straight onto his face?

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

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Why not just say it became a Great Pakari and then was destroyed by the EP pool? Seems like the simplest explanation.

Wait, what EP pool? You mean the one he fell into with Makuta several hours later?

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I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Why would the EP pool destroy the mask? It wasn't destined to transform or something? :P

 

Wait though, why'd the Toa Nuva need to go on another Mask hunt? clearly their Golden Masks were temporally-reverse-swapped out for their collection of old ones; of which clearly only their 'normal' Mask was destined to transform, the others where destroyed; hence Mask Hunt, Hence Takanuva lost his Great Pakari in the EP because it was not destined! :P

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~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

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  • 1 month later...

I'm certain Takua must've taken off his Pakari because the movies tend to, for whatever reason, obscure the maskless faces of beings.

 

The faces must be so horrifying that they fused/grafted the MoL onto Takua's Pakari without showing him taking off his Pakari to reveal the hideousness that lies beneath it.

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