Will Bionicle ever reach its full story potential?

[graywolf89]

I've been watching a couple episodes of Transormers Prime and MLP on the Hub (or Discovery Kids or whatever) lately, and I've also been following the story of Bionicle G2 through the videos posted on it's LEGO homepage. Both Prime and MLP are great shows (especially Prime, you guys should check that out) which are well-liked by audiences outside of their target demographic, largely due to their mature but not necessarily dark take on their subject matter. By comparison, the G2 videos and even the movies of G1 seem paper thin in terms of the themes presented and too sanitized in terms of the overall tone (Unity! Duty! Destiny! Unity! Duty! Destiny! Unity! Duty! Destiny!).

 

What I'm trying to say is that if there's one thing those shows have taught me, it's that a toy-driven storyline can still be emotional, complex and well-written, despite having the constant constraint of selling toys. Even though they're aimed at kids, these shows are successful in having depth-Transformers Prime explored themes like the need to move on from loss and what it meant to be a leader. Even the Transformers Beast Wars cartoon from the 90s conveyed relatively complex themes like fate and free will, what it meant to fight with honor (Dinobot, anyone?), and the harsh realities of war (*shudder* Transmutate, anyone?)--without alienating their kid audience.

 

As a reboot of the relatively story-heavy G1 line, G2 Bionicle has so much potential to finally be a mature (NOT synonymous with dark and brooding) take on the line; with a deep story, well-developed characters, and a reasonably fleshed-out world. In this day and age, it seems reasonable that Bionicle's target audience can understand themes more complex than the need to work together and take more action than just slapping around some spiders/freezing some Rahkshi. The new line has presented LEGO with an opportunity to create a story not only match but perhaps even surpass that of the old G1 line. So far, with what we're given, it doesn't seem LEGO has grasped that opportunity....yet. I understand that right now we're only on the summer wave and there's a lot more content to go through, but I sincerely hope that LEGO changes things up soon after the video series is over.

 

I'll be really disappointed if they don't. G2 Bionicle has so much potential in terms of plot, characters, setting, and mythology especially since it can draw elements from G1. And thanks to their recent partnership with Warner Bros. (they created Batman: The Animated Series), LEGO has the means to make something great. What do you guys think? Do you think the Bionicle storyline will ever reach its full potential?    

Edited February 16, 2015 by graywolf89

[Sumiki]

I don't think it's possible to achieve the full potential of any given line, if only for the fact that different fans are going to have different ideas of what "full potential" is intended to mean.

[Anapouri]

I wouldn't say the shows you've mentioned have mature themes outside of their original targeted demographic. I know the MLP started off more geared towards young children but Lauren Faust took advantage of it once she saw older audiences becoming obsessed with the cute little pony characters and their personalities. That's when things started to really take off with MLP. Also, most material in the MLP fanbase is, well, fanfiction and stuff. As for Transformers Prime, I can't really say much about it because I didn't really pay much attention to it.

But you have to remember, those are shows that were more geared towards being written stories than just toys. I know that MLP started out as a toy first back in the day, but the new one rebooted as a television show and was released alongside toys, so it had more of a simultaneous responsibility on itself to present a storyline kids (and soon after older audiences) could attach themselves to. 

LEGO and their products tend to come across as "play first, story later". In fact, the G1 BIONICLE story was pretty much the only fleshed out storyline that came out of a LEGO product because LEGO wasn't really focused on banking on a well written piece of literature promoted through media as much as they were selling building blocks and parts for people to express their own imaginations of. But BIONICLE just happened to appeal to a lot of people, both critical thinkers and those just wanting something to put together and play with. So it ended up having an expanded market in the end and took off like wildfire until they ended up closing it down, now leading us to G2 in the year 2015 with the reboot of the theme.

You're also expecting something that is, literally, brand new to pump out fantastically written story rivaling something that had been around for many many many years and had time to build on itself. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, you know? G1 started out pretty slow too, with little to go on aside from a few mysterious media outlets. This time, we just ended up with a narrator and some cool flash animations of the Toa doing stuff and letting us know the legend behind "Okoto" and what's going on.

Give it time. Let it grow.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Anapouri

[Xarok]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the story for G2 get as fleshed out as G1's backstory... (Even to this day I'm still learning crazy new stuff just from reading around on BS01, like just the other day I finally looked up the Red Star and it frickin' blew my mind) Perhaps that will come in time, but I think we'll have to wait and see. Part of the fun of G1 was the mystery.

[Regitnui]

I thought I was going to see a bit of storyline snobbery in this topic and was all geared up to remind people that G2 has only run for a month and a half, but then the OP compared Bionicle to My Little Pony, and I just couldn't take them seriously anymore.

 

I'm not a MLP 'fan', nor do I want to be, but I do follow tvtropes. 90% of the times MLP is mentioned on that wiki, it is in reference to a fan fiction of some sort. Not even Pokémon has as many fanfics as MLP. From that fact alone, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that whatever 'mature' or 'deep' themes somebody pulls out of a cartoon about ponies that act like underage girls are very likely exaggerated at the very least. (Am I the only person who thought MLP toys were boring and pointless back when they were a child?)

 

Transformers, admittedly, has a lot more mileage as a comparison to Bionicle. Though there are flaws with that analogy too. Every transformers continuity is confirmed to be a parallel universe. This means that there will be certain repeated concepts and themes. Over transformers 30/35-year run as a franchise, it has had to work each of those recurring devices in an attempt to differ one series from the other. So, besides the fact that transformers is old enough for grandparents to tell stories about it to their grandchildren, the constant switching and changing of setting, time period and medium has forced it to explore its mythology and concept many times over.

 

Bionicke, taken as a whole, is only 15 years old. We have no guarantee that the rules of G1 apply to G2 (unlike transformers) and its fan base is nowhere near large or obsessive enough to produce a massive volume of fanworks (unlike MLP). Bionicle is still a toyline with an attached story, not a storyline with attached toys. While the story is epic and action-packed, we shouldn't expect complexity from it for the same reason you don't expect complex stories to arise from other Lego or Mega Blox storylines. G2 has had only a month to exist on its own, and so criticism of its 'less complex story' sounds a lot like someone watching half an hour of the Avengers and claiming the movie was boring and slow-paced.

 

Finally, what is bionicle's 'true story potential'? Some in S&T would have you believe that G2 can only gain merit by linking itself to G1. Others would have it actively distance itself and stand on its own. Would we consider its 'true potential' achieved when it spawns a thousand fanfictions to plague the net like every other fandom? Or when Bionicle has a full-on role in the second Lego Movie and Tahu2 dethrones the zombified King Business?

 

Above all, Bionicle is Lego. Lego doesn't say; "these are our characters and this is who they are." Lego says "hey, I've got some cool characters, but what can you do with them?" Lego is about creativity. The only G1 design I have still built is Jaller Mahri's hanhah crab. Instead, I have a spear-and-shield-wielding Toa of Lightning named Zarya who idolizes Gaaki Hagah and rides a heavily modified Sea Sled. I have a giant, draconic version of Marendar who (currently) wields a chained mace larger than a Mata's torso and has two rhotuka spinners in his arms. Lego doesn't say that these are less worthy because they're not official storyline models. The ethos of Lego might even make them more valuable than their component sets. Each of these fan models has their own storyline role, entirely made up by me.

 

Does Bionicle's 'true story potential' involve my Marendar? Does Bionicle's 'true story potential' include the unnamed monkey-like creature some 8-year-old in Albania builds from his new Protector of Jungle? Does Bionicle's 'true story potential' include a ten-year-old's world where the Protector of Fire is Tahu's son? The answer is yes. By Lego's very definition, no in-house story is ever the line's true potential, no matter how many times it's rebooted.

 

So to answer the original question. Yes. It already did. Why didn't you see it happen?

Edited February 16, 2015 by Regitnui

[toa kopaka4372]

 

 

a toy-driven storyline can still be emotional, complex and well-written

Which, IMO, is exactly what BIONICLE G1 was.

 

You're doing the original story a massive disservice by simplifying all its rich storytelling to 'Unity, Duty, Destiny.' While those were certainly prominent ideas, they are very far from constituting what all of classic BIONICLE was about. The storyline dealt with plenty of sophisticated themes and ideas, and its characters were in general developed excellently. The examples are nearly endless. You have Vakama, who suffered from indecisiveness and insecurity and was unwilling to take on the mantle of leadership, before doing so too eagerly after Lhikan's death and dooming his team, before eh finally came to terms with his flaws and abilities and emerged as a wholesome individual. You have Jaller, who struggled in dealing with returning to life after death and leading an entire team. Matoro, who thought nothing of himself and was burdened with secrets his entire life accepting his fate and sacrificing his life for the whole universe. Krika, with his regret and self-loathing for allowing Teriax to do what he did with the Brotherhood. Nidhiki, who betrayed his city and friends because he realized the hopelessness of the war and so was thrown out and shunned. Gorast, a fanatic so utterly loyal to Teridax's plan that she wasted her life away following it, only to go insane before her death when she realized that she had been betrayed.  Helryx, a cold, calculating individual who believes that killing is necessary to achieve peace. Tuyet, who believed the Toa Code was a restraint that prevented the Toa from saving everyone they could. Raanu, who feared the Glatorian after seeing the horrors they committed during the Core War and so treated them as tools rather than individuals. 

 

You get the idea. All of the above is just a small portion of what G1 had to offer. Its world was complex and fully-realized, its characters compelling, and its actual plot thrilling. When I look at G1, I see a story, not a bunch of battles intended purely for selling toys. G1 was a story in its own right, because the story team (and especially Greg) was ambitious and creative enough to make it that. The later story years weren't just dark, they were actually well-written. The two aren't mutually exclusive. And even the BIONICLE movies have a lot more depth and thought put into them than you're giving them credit for. They're some of the best media LEGO's ever produced. Don't let the constant chanting of "Unity!Duty!Destiny!' distract from all the other things going on. In due time, I hope that G2 is able to reach the same heights as G1.

 

As for the actual question, I don't think anything can really reach its full story potential, no matter how good it is. Every story can always be improved, no matter what.

[bionicleFanatic]

While I do think the post above (wait... the post above the post above []) is worthy of a like, I think the original poster's question was more "When will the Official Bionicle Storyline reach it's full potential?". Because honestly, that's the one everyone cares about. That's the one people keep visiting the new Story page for. I'm not saying that people's own storyline's are any less, (I've made up my own complex AU), but the official one is the one everyone talks about, rallies 'round. 

 

And don't ask me about Bionicle reaching it's full potential, because I'm a bionicle nut, so, I'm biased []

 

Yah, that's my two cents worth []

[graywolf89]

Bionicke, taken as a whole, is only 15 years old. We have no guarantee that the rules of G1 apply to G2 (unlike transformers) and its fan base is nowhere near large or obsessive enough to produce a massive volume of fanworks (unlike MLP). Bionicle is still a toyline with an attached story, not a storyline with attached toys. While the story is epic and action-packed, we shouldn't expect complexity from it for the same reason you don't expect complex stories to arise from other Lego or Mega Blox storylines. G2 has had only a month to exist on its own, and so criticism of its 'less complex story' sounds a lot like someone watching half an hour of the Avengers and claiming the movie was boring and slow-paced.

First of all, let me make myself perfectly clear: My post is not meant to be a criticism of the current G2 line. While I did imply that it wasn't what it could be, I fully acknowledged that it's only been around for a month. My statement about the current G2 story was all about whether LEGO could improve on what they're doing after the video series is done. Saying something can be improved does not amount to criticism. Also, my post isn't meant to bash the entire Bionicle story as a whole. I'm sorry if it seemed like it did.

 

 

Transformers, admittedly, has a lot more mileage as a comparison to Bionicle. Though there are flaws with that analogy too. Every transformers continuity is confirmed to be a parallel universe. This means that there will be certain repeated concepts and themes. Over transformers 30/35-year run as a franchise, it has had to work each of those recurring devices in an attempt to differ one series from the other. So, besides the fact that transformers is old enough for grandparents to tell stories about it to their grandchildren, the constant switching and changing of setting, time period and medium has forced it to explore its mythology and concept many times over.

The statement about every Transformers continuity being a parallel universe is not true. Transformers Beast Wars exists in the same continuity as the Transformers G1 series. As for your statement about "repeated concepts and themes," well, I can tell you that's simply not true. Although the fundamental basics remain the same, (i.e. War between two factions of  transforming robots) nearly every iteration has expanded upon its mythology in some way. In fact, the whole concept of "sparks" comes from the 90s TV series. I wish something like that could happen with Bionicle. Isn't G2 Bionicle a parallel universe to G1? This is the perfect chance for Bionicle's to re-explore its mythology and concept, perhaps without the technobabble that people criticized G1 Bionicle for.

 

 

 

I'm not a MLP 'fan', nor do I want to be, but I do follow tvtropes. 90% of the times MLP is mentioned on that wiki, it is in reference to a fan fiction of some sort. Not even Pokémon has as many fanfics as MLP. From that fact alone, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that whatever 'mature' or 'deep' themes somebody pulls out of a cartoon about ponies that act like underage girls are very likely exaggerated at the very least. (Am I the only person who thought MLP toys were boring and pointless back when they were a child?)

 

 

 

 Not really sure why you devoted an entire paragraph to bashing MLP, since I believe I only mentioned it once and didn't even go that far into detail. Not to mention that using the number of fanfics that the fanbase has as proof that MLP isn't mature really, really doesn't make any sense. Your statement about the ponies acting like "underaged girls" doesn't help your aregument either, since it's clear you don't understand the show. And when did I ever say it had "deep" themes? I consider the MLP show to be "mature" because A) It's well written, and B) It's fully developed with it's own well-established universe and characters. It's clear the developers are trying. I use tv tropes as well, and from what I can see, in terms of characterization and themes MLP surpasses G1 Bionicle. 

 

 

Above all, Bionicle is Lego. Lego doesn't say; "these are our characters and this is who they are." Lego says "hey, I've got some cool characters, but what can you do with them?" Lego is about creativity. The only G1 design I have still built is Jaller Mahri's hanhah crab. Instead, I have a spear-and-shield-wielding Toa of Lightning named Zarya who idolizes Gaaki Hagah and rides a heavily modified Sea Sled. I have a giant, draconic version of Marendar who (currently) wields a chained mace larger than a Mata's torso and has two rhotuka spinners in his arms. Lego doesn't say that these are less worthy because they're not official storyline models. The ethos of Lego might even make them more valuable than their component sets. Each of these fan models has their own storyline role, entirely made up by me.

 

This is simple: Just because a line is story-heavy doesn't mean it blocks creativity. I don't understand why Bionicle can't have fully developed characters and such. If you don't like it make your own fanfiction. There's no written rule stating that you can't create your own content outside of canon. What you're essentially saying is that kids should fill in the blanks with their own headcanon, which I understand. But then, you could just do the same with Hero Factory, right? I mean, it had less story than G1 Bionicle, so theoretically there was more room for imagination. Why did people bother criticizing Hero Factory for being poor on story (the sets were other half of the problem) if you could just make up your own? The thing is, no amount of imaginative freedom could cover up it's barebones story.  And again, LEGO has the means to create an excellent storyline so they should use it. 

Do NOT bypass the filter. -B6

 

 

 

Finally, what is bionicle's 'true story potential'? Some in S&T would have you believe that G2 can only gain merit by linking itself to G1. Others would have it actively distance itself and stand on its own. Would we consider its 'true potential' achieved when it spawns a thousand fanfictions to plague the net like every other fandom? Or when Bionicle has a full-on role in the second Lego Movie and Tahu2 dethrones the zombified King Business?

?

 

What I define as "true story potential" is a story that's well thought-out (No more loose ends/bizarre endings like in G1), reasonably complex (but not to the point of forcing people who missed a serial to read two hours worth of new content), creative and original (tribal robots, anyone?), takes itself seriously (but not necessarily dark), has well developed characters, and most of all, looks like it had effort put into it.

 

 

By Lego's very definition, no in-house story is ever the line's true potential, no matter how many times it's rebooted.

 

LEGO still has to try, or else we'll end up with another Hero Factory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(don't mind these)

 

 

 

 

 

 

a toy-driven storyline can still be emotional, complex and well-written

Which, IMO, is exactly what BIONICLE G1 was.

 

You're doing the original story a massive disservice by simplifying all its rich storytelling to 'Unity, Duty, Destiny.' While those were certainly prominent ideas, they are very far from constituting what all of classic BIONICLE was about. The storyline dealt with plenty of sophisticated themes and ideas, and its characters were in general developed excellently. The examples are nearly endless. You have Vakama, who suffered from indecisiveness and insecurity and was unwilling to take on the mantle of leadership, before doing so too eagerly after Lhikan's death and dooming his team, before eh finally came to terms with his flaws and abilities and emerged as a wholesome individual. You have Jaller, who struggled in dealing with returning to life after death and leading an entire team. Matoro, who thought nothing of himself and was burdened with secrets his entire life accepting his fate and sacrificing his life for the whole universe. Krika, with his regret and self-loathing for allowing Teriax to do what he did with the Brotherhood. Nidhiki, who betrayed his city and friends because he realized the hopelessness of the war and so was thrown out and shunned. Gorast, a fanatic so utterly loyal to Teridax's plan that she wasted her life away following it, only to go insane before her death when she realized that she had been betrayed.  Helryx, a cold, calculating individual who believes that killing is necessary to achieve peace. Tuyet, who believed the Toa Code was a restraint that prevented the Toa from saving everyone they could. Raanu, who feared the Glatorian after seeing the horrors they committed during the Core War and so treated them as tools rather than individuals. 

 

You get the idea. All of the above is just a small portion of what G1 had to offer. Its world was complex and fully-realized, its characters compelling, and its actual plot thrilling. When I look at G1, I see a story, not a bunch of battles intended purely for selling toys. G1 was a story in its own right, because the story team (and especially Greg) was ambitious and creative enough to make it that. The later story years weren't just dark, they were actually well-written. The two aren't mutually exclusive. And even the BIONICLE movies have a lot more depth and thought put into them than you're giving them credit for. They're some of the best media LEGO's ever produced. Don't let the constant chanting of "Unity!Duty!Destiny!' distract from all the other things going on. In due time, I hope that G2 is able to reach the same heights as G1.

 

As for the actual question, I don't think anything can really reach its full story potential, no matter how good it is. Every story can always be improved, no matter what.

 

I get the idea, and my intention wasn't to do G1 a disservice. My post was mainly about G2 Bionicle. My hope isn't that G2 will reach the same heights as G1, my hope is that G2 will surpass it. Don't get me wrong, G1 was awesome, but it still had its pitfalls such as some meaningless side plots, a slightly over complex story and the poorly developed Toa Nuva (I agree that the Metru and Inika were good). My hope is that G2 can rectify those problems, all while having an engaging storyline of its own. Edited February 17, 2015 by Black Six

[fishers64]

Will Gen2 ever be as good as Gen1?

 

Maybe. We shall see. 

 

Can it be as good or better than Gen1? 

 

Yes. 

 

What is the "full story potential" of Gen2? 

 

Actually, we don't know what it is, because we don't know the answers to the mysteries that Gen2 as presented. If they fail to answer those questions, the story potential will never be realized, not matter what it is.

 

Can they answer those questions?

 

Yes.

 

Will they?

 

I don't know. If Hero Factory is anything to go by, they won't. If Gen1 Bionicle is anything to go by, they will. They said they had a three-year plan for the line, so I'd expect that they would have at least some of the answers. 

[Votuko]

The BIONICLE story reaching its "full potential"?

 

So you mean BIONICLE NRG?

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

Hmmm, dunno. I feel G1 met the crux of story potential back in 2004 - there were so many excellent stories being told in so many facets of media that it was almost overwhelming. G2 seems to be shying away from that initially but it's only the first year - they are starting out small but who knows? It might reach 2004's level of story eventually, or even surpass it. I don't think it will ever reach its full potential though, because that kind of expectation changes per person (full potential could mean books to one person, TV show to another).

 

-NotS

Edited February 17, 2015 by Nidhiki of the Shadows

[Archon~]

I don't think it'll reach its full potential as the G1 story died when Greg stoped updating the serials.

[graywolf89]

Hmmm, dunno. I feel G1 met the crux of story potential back in 2004 - there were so many excellent stories being told in so many facets of media that it was almost overwhelming. G2 seems to be shying away from that initially but it's only the first year - they are starting out small but who knows? It might reach 2004's level of story eventually, or even surpass it. I don't think it will ever reach its full potential though, because that kind of expectation changes per person (full potential could mean books to one person, TV show to another).

 

-NotS

 

I suppose a general definition of "full potential" would be a story that equals or excels the G1 story, but without G1's pitfalls (i.e. meaningless side plots, poor characterization, serialization, lack of a pre-planned plot).

[toa kopaka4372]

 

 

poor characterization, serialization, lack of a pre-planned plot

I'm curious as to why you think G1 had flaws in these departments. By and large the majority of the characters that actually mattered had great characterization (and some characters shouldn't be fleshed out, because doing that for the sake of doing it doesn't always equate to good writing), the serials gave us some of the best stories of G1, and G1 stands out for having a very well-planned story, and it shows. Unless in this case you are referring to Greg's writing style, which in this case isn't really a negative, as he has written some absolute gems (and his supposed lack of planning is exaggerated; plenty of books have foreshadowing to events within themselves and often have consistent themes that underline the events of the plot). 

 

If, however, by the above you are referring to a select few serials which became very sloppy down the line (like Reign of Shadows), then never mind, ignore all of the above. 

[Regitnui]

I agree with that. The serials at the end were sloppy, but the rest of the story was very good, and so I have no idea why we're saying G1 had a poor story.

[graywolf89]

 

 

 

poor characterization, serialization, lack of a pre-planned plot

I'm curious as to why you think G1 had flaws in these departments. By and large the majority of the characters that actually mattered had great characterization (and some characters shouldn't be fleshed out, because doing that for the sake of doing it doesn't always equate to good writing), the serials gave us some of the best stories of G1, and G1 stands out for having a very well-planned story, and it shows. Unless in this case you are referring to Greg's writing style, which in this case isn't really a negative, as he has written some absolute gems (and his supposed lack of planning is exaggerated; plenty of books have foreshadowing to events within themselves and often have consistent themes that underline the events of the plot). 

 

If, however, by the above you are referring to a select few serials which became very sloppy down the line (like Reign of Shadows), then never mind, ignore all of the above. 

 

To make things clear, I think overall G1 had a great story. But I think the Toa Nuva definitely could've received some better characterization, seeing as they had to learn the importance of working together 2-3 times. At least Tahu finally learned to not give into his own pride...9 years after his first appearance. That said, its been some time since I last read G1 story material, so maybe the Nuva are a bit more well-rounded than I thought. I don't mind them keeping the personalities the same for G2, but I'd like to see more visible character development.

 

As for serialization, this was a common complaint from people and I understand it. If you missed some weeks of story there was a lot you had to read through to catch up. This wasn't helped by the multiple story media. There was a ton of story info I missed out on, like Mata Nui's journey into the valley of the Maze and Tarduk's meeting with the elemental lord because I didn't have the graphic novels (Was Tarduk's story in a serial?). Never mind the fact that the story serials sometimes crossed over with each other and, events happening in the serials were mentioned in the books. In short, you had to read a lot of material to get the big picture of what was going on. I'd appreciate it if G2 simply made the story more accessible in one medium, like books.

 

As for the lack of a pre-planned story, I was referring to the endings of some of the serials like Brothers In Arms, and some loose ends which didn't get tied up until later (what happened to the team destroying the EP pool on Daxia?). 

Edited February 17, 2015 by graywolf89

[fishers64]

I'm not sure how a good but flawed story is somehow inferior to having a skeleton of a story with glossed-over plot points and very little character development, which is where Gen2 story is headed. 

[graywolf89]

I'm not sure how a good but flawed story is somehow inferior to having a skeleton of a story with glossed-over plot points and very little character development, which is where Gen2 story is headed. 

You clearly didn't pay attention. Since when did I ever say the Gen 1 story was inferior to what we have now? I did say that Gen 1 had some flaws, which Lego has the chance to rectify in Gen 2.

Edited February 17, 2015 by graywolf89

[fishers64]

 

I'm not sure how a good but flawed story is somehow inferior to having a skeleton of a story with glossed-over plot points and very little character development, which is where Gen2 story is headed. 

You clearly didn't pay attention. Since when did I ever say the Gen 1 story was inferior to what we have now? I did say that Gen 1 had some flaws, which Lego has the chance to rectify in Gen 2.

 

My point is that it's clear that they aren't quite taking that chance. If by "flawed", you mean "needlessly complicated" like so many other posters here, then sure, Gen 2 story will solve all your Gen 1 flaws. 

 

But it seems that you're not approaching this from that angle. You would like:

 

To make things clear, I think overall G1 had a great story. But I think the Toa Nuva definitely could've received some better characterization, seeing as they had to learn the importance of working together 2-3 times. At least Tahu finally learned to not give into his own pride...9 years after his first appearance. That said, its been some time since I last read G1 story material, so maybe the Nuva are a bit more well-rounded than I thought. I don't mind them keeping the personalities the same for G2, but I'd like to see more visible character development.

 

As for serialization, this was a common complaint from people and I understand it. If you missed some weeks of story there was a lot you had to read through to catch up. This wasn't helped by the multiple story media. There was a ton of story info I missed out on, like Mata Nui's journey into the valley of the Maze and Tarduk's meeting with the elemental lord because I didn't have the graphic novels (Was Tarduk's story in a serial?). Never mind the fact that the story serials sometimes crossed over with each other and, events happening in the serials were mentioned in the books. In short, you had to read a lot of material to get the big picture of what was going on. I'd appreciate it if G2 simply made the story more accessible in one medium, like books.

 

As for the lack of a pre-planned story, I was referring to the endings of some of the serials like Brothers In Arms, and some loose ends which didn't get tied up until later (what happened to the team destroying the EP pool on Daxia?). 

 

Better characterization and tied-up loose ends?

 

Me too.

 

But I don't think they are going that direction. If the 9 1:30 animations with zip characterization are any indication, it doesn't seem that we'll be getting what we want.

[graywolf89]

 

 

 

 

 

To make things clear, I think overall G1 had a great story. But I think the Toa Nuva definitely could've received some better characterization, seeing as they had to learn the importance of working together 2-3 times. At least Tahu finally learned to not give into his own pride...9 years after his first appearance. That said, its been some time since I last read G1 story material, so maybe the Nuva are a bit more well-rounded than I thought. I don't mind them keeping the personalities the same for G2, but I'd like to see more visible character development.

 

As for serialization, this was a common complaint from people and I understand it. If you missed some weeks of story there was a lot you had to read through to catch up. This wasn't helped by the multiple story media. There was a ton of story info I missed out on, like Mata Nui's journey into the valley of the Maze and Tarduk's meeting with the elemental lord because I didn't have the graphic novels (Was Tarduk's story in a serial?). Never mind the fact that the story serials sometimes crossed over with each other and, events happening in the serials were mentioned in the books. In short, you had to read a lot of material to get the big picture of what was going on. I'd appreciate it if G2 simply made the story more accessible in one medium, like books.

 

As for the lack of a pre-planned story, I was referring to the endings of some of the serials like Brothers In Arms, and some loose ends which didn't get tied up until later (what happened to the team destroying the EP pool on Daxia?). 

 

 

 

But I don't think they are going that direction. If the 9 1:30 animations with zip characterization are any indication, it doesn't seem that we'll be getting what we want.

 

Agreed  . I made this thread wondering if LEGO would be willing to fully develop the story.

[Regitnui]

We are getting books later.

[Lyichir]

We are getting books later.

But we don't really have any idea what those books will be like. It's getting really tiresome to hear people talk as if the books will surely give them the more complex story the classic books delivered, considering that the classic books were only marginally successful and that there are any number of OTHER directions a book series for the new Bionicle could be taken.

 

Secret Mission #1: The Doom Box was the first Hero Factory chapter book. It was much like the Bionicle chapter books in that it a long-form story and was somewhat integrated with the main story of that year's "Breakout" arc, but unlike the Bionicle chapter books it did not play into the outcome of that story year, and rather focused on the capture of villains left out of that year's main TV special. Later books diverged from the main story even further, with the second chapter book being a flashback story of the early days of the Hero Factory, the third and fourth books taking place during the "Brain Attack" arc but dealing with individual and separate incursions by the evil brains, and the fifth book being a completely independent alternate universe story. The Hero Factory chapter books were not particularly successful, ending after the fifth book and before the series' through-line of a hidden galactic conspiracy could be brought to any sort of conclusion.

 

Kai: Ninja of Fire was the first Ninjago chapter book. But it was not like the Bionicle chapter books. It didn't retell the main story in more detail like them—rather, it had one short story and one eight-chapter story, the former taking place shortly after Kai has joined Sensei Wu and started training and the latter taking place at a vague point after the Ninja have started seeking the golden weapons but before they've actually found any of them. Neither story actually has any bearing on the outcome of the main story—they only exist to tell interesting, standalone stories that help establish the characters' personalities. The second year had only one chapter book, which was nothing more than an adaptation of TV episodes, and after that the chapter book series went on hiatus until its return this year with an original story bridging the gap between last year's story arc and this year's debut episode.

 

Attack of the Crocodiles was the first Legends of Chima chapter book, and unlike the aforementioned Ninjago book it was illustrated in full color rather than being limited solely to text. But it wasn't really a chapter book of the traditional sort. A good quarter of the book was just an overall summary of the Chima story and introduction to the main characters, while the rest was taken up by three individual, fable-like short stories. It did resemble the aforementioned Ninjago stories insofar as none of these stories had any bearing on the overall plot. The Chima chapter books continued using that story formula until their end last year.

 

I'm explaining all this to show that there are a LOT of ways Lego could approach Bionicle chapter books, and none of them totally resemble the classic Bionicle theme's approach. And that's assuming we GET chapter books. From what I remember, all we know for certain that we're getting is books, which could mean ANYTHING: guidebooks, graphic novels, even 30-page picture books for early readers. And there's no guarantee that ANY of those things (chapter books included) will deliver the "full story potential" this topic hopes for.

 

I'm not saying it's not worth getting excited for books. I enjoyed ALL the books I mentioned, despite the fact that none of them really contibuted to the main stories of their respective themes, just because the stories were GOOD and regardless of their effect on canon they served the purpose of offering a few more opportunities to dive into the worlds of those themes and experience the interactions of their compelling characters. But none of them offered any sort of "full story potential" or formed an epic saga like some people seem to want Bionicle to be. They were just stories—nothing more, nothing less.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Lyichir

[EPCOT Explorer]

I, too, feel like Gen1 had all the things you're describing. It just never became as mainstream as the franchises you mentioned. There's hope, yet. 

[MrSciFiGuy]

I understand your worry, because I too am worried that G2 will be too vague and simple. I know we are all hungering for world building and new mysteries, but for now we have only handfuls of information to go off of.

 

But, maybe that will change when the books come out. 

 

Truth is, will we see Bionicle reach the same level of attention as Chima and Ninjago? Even story wise with occasional TV shows? 

Or is Lego too cautious to do so with the complexity that built up with the G1?

[Lyichir]

Found on Amazon:

 

Bionicle chapter book #1

 

Bionicle activity book #1

 

Both are listed as releasing on August 25. The chapter book is written by Ryder Windham, who seems to have written or contributed on numerous Star Wars books and novelizations. The activity book says "with mask", but I doubt it will be an exclusive mask given that comparable activity books for themes such as Ninjago or Friends never include exclusive figs.

I suppose we will find out if the new Bionicle will reach its "full story potential" on August 25 of this year.

[graywolf89]

 

Found on Amazon:

 

Bionicle chapter book #1

 

Bionicle activity book #1

 

Both are listed as releasing on August 25. The chapter book is written by Ryder Windham, who seems to have written or contributed on numerous Star Wars books and novelizations. The activity book says "with mask", but I doubt it will be an exclusive mask given that comparable activity books for themes such as Ninjago or Friends never include exclusive figs.

I suppose we will find out if the new Bionicle will reach its "full story potential" on August 25 of this year.

 

According to Wikipedia, Ryder Windham has written more than 60 Star Wars books, including comics, so I guess there's hope that the story will be good. (Why does everyone quote "full potential"? You could just say "good")

[Lyichir]

 

 

Found on Amazon:

 

Bionicle chapter book #1

 

Bionicle activity book #1

 

Both are listed as releasing on August 25. The chapter book is written by Ryder Windham, who seems to have written or contributed on numerous Star Wars books and novelizations. The activity book says "with mask", but I doubt it will be an exclusive mask given that comparable activity books for themes such as Ninjago or Friends never include exclusive figs.

I suppose we will find out if the new Bionicle will reach its "full story potential" on August 25 of this year.

 

According to Wikipedia, Ryder Windham has written more than 60 Star Wars books, including comics, so I guess there's hope that the story will be good. (Why does everyone quote "full potential"? You could just say "good")

 

Because that's what this topic was about, and to me seems like a ridiculous ideal to expect a merchandise-driven story to aspire to. That's not to say that that kind of story can't be good, but it seems a lot of people expect more than "good" from Bionicle, and it's no doubt thanks to the pretensions it established long, long ago of being an epic saga on par with Star Wars or Lord of the Rings. I think we'd get a better Bionicle by setting our sights lower, and there'd be less chance of disappointment.

 

Anyway, I was also impressed by the author's credentials. It's nice to see that while he hasn't branched out that much from Star Wars, the books he's worked on span a wide range of styles and reading levels. Frankly, it's a more impressive range than Cathy Hapka or even Greg had under their belts before their work on Bionicle.

[graywolf89]

 

 

 

 

According to Wikipedia, Ryder Windham has written more than 60 Star Wars books, including comics, so I guess there's hope that the story will be good. (Why does everyone quote "full potential"? You could just say "good")

 

Because that's what this topic was about, and to me seems like a ridiculous ideal to expect a merchandise-driven story to aspire to. That's not to say that that kind of story can't be good, but it seems a lot of people expect more than "good" from Bionicle, and it's no doubt thanks to the pretensions it established long, long ago of being an epic saga on par with Star Wars or Lord of the Rings. I think we'd get a better Bionicle by setting our sights lower, and there'd be less chance of disappointment.

 

 

Fair enough. When I started this topic, my views of Bionicle's story were influenced by Hasbro's Transformers, which I saw as the epitome of a merchandise-driven story in terms of character developement, plot, and sheer scale. I understand that by it's very nature, Bionicle is unlikely to ever be as mainstream as Transformers, and by extent unlikely to have a story as large and developed. I'm not saying G1 Bionicle's story wasn't either of those, though it was less cohesive.

 

The reason why I set my sights high for G2 is because of the circumstances surrounding its return. I though that if LEGO could create something as epic as G1 Bionicle while it was in the middle of a financial crisis, then surely wouldn't Lego, with its new found wealth make G2 even more epic? I'm sure I speak for a lot of people when I say the story content thus far is a tad bit underwhelming.

 

But I get that Lego has to do business; that it simply isn't Lego to be mainstream or high-profile, and admittedly, G1 Bionicle is pretty hard to top as a whole. So while I certainly want a good story with effort put into it, I guess maybe I should lower my expectations. I'll settle for good, but my hopes are still high. 

Edited February 24, 2015 by graywolf89

[fishers64]

I don't know if "lowering" expectations is quite the way to go. From whom little is expected, little is received.

 

"Adjusting" expectations to fit the sad and dismal facts, maybe. But not "lowering". That implies you'll accept anything from Lego, even if it's crummy quality. I have to say that is a very bad mindset to get into. Accepting the fact that Lego isn't catering to your tastes is good. But thinking that your personal tastes don't matter in the face of Lego's brand is foolish. If you don't like what Lego is doing, don't buy their stuff just because it's Lego.

 

As for me, Lego has exceeded my personal tastes in sets while continuing to fall far short of my personal tastes in story. At least in terms of Bionicle/Hero Factory. For the most part I've moved on from them storywise. But I still want them to tell a good story, and I know they can if they really want to. Witness Ninjago and The Lego Movie. So why should I lower my expectations?

 

But why they think that doesn't work for constraction anymore while it does work for everything else baffles me to no end. Especially since constraction started the Lego story trend to begin with. Every single other action figure product line I can think of - superheroes, Transformers, etc - has a story behind it. What are they thinking?

[Lyichir]

I don't know if "lowering" expectations is quite the way to go. From whom little is expected, little is received.

 

"Adjusting" expectations to fit the sad and dismal facts, maybe. But not "lowering". That implies you'll accept anything from Lego, even if it's crummy quality. I have to say that is a very bad mindset to get into. Accepting the fact that Lego isn't catering to your tastes is good. But thinking that your personal tastes don't matter in the face of Lego's brand is foolish. If you don't like what Lego is doing, don't buy their stuff just because it's Lego.

 

As for me, Lego has exceeded my personal tastes in sets while continuing to fall far short of my personal tastes in story. At least in terms of Bionicle/Hero Factory. For the most part I've moved on from them storywise. But I still want them to tell a good story, and I know they can if they really want to. Witness Ninjago and The Lego Movie. So why should I lower my expectations?

 

But why they think that doesn't work for constraction anymore while it does work for everything else baffles me to no end. Especially since constraction started the Lego story trend to begin with. Every single other action figure product line I can think of - superheroes, Transformers, etc - has a story behind it. What are they thinking?

I think lowering expectations is fine if those expectations are too high to begin with.

 

Frankly, I don't need the new Bionicle to be exceptional, because the OLD Bionicle wasn't exceptional, and neither was Hero Factory, its successor. I enjoyed The Lego Movie and Ninjago plenty, but it seems like most people expect even more from Bionicle than from those, which to me seems like an impossibly high standard.

 

I expect a good story, don't get me wrong. But I'm not going to complain if the new story is less dense than the classic one... or if it has plot holes... or if it occasionally indulges in a childish joke or two, as can be expected in a cartoon for kids. None of those things are significant issues to me. Basically, my expectations for the new story are tempered by an awareness of the story's function—what it is, who it's for, and what it needs to do to be successful. By setting my baseline expectations according to that, the new story can really only exceed them.

[masterchirox580]

I don't think it's right to compare bionicle to FIM, FIM was/is created by professional writers and animators who had been in the business for a while, bionicle G2 on the other hand has no such talent behind it (at least not yet), the guys at lego (who likely had large control over the story) are thinking in the mindset of "toys first story second", so I think it's gonna take some time (and probably a TV show) before the story really goes places. 

[Iblis]

I don't think it's right to compare bionicle to FIM, FIM was/is created by professional writers and animators who had been in the business for a while, bionicle G2 on the other hand has no such talent behind it (at least not yet), the guys at lego (who likely had large control over the story) are thinking in the mindset of "toys first story second", so I think it's gonna take some time (and probably a TV show) before the story really goes places. 

 

FIM? MLPFIM My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic? ^{About forty different other explicit ~ highly-inappropriate abbreviations come to mind but obviously it's not those...} 

Who are you talking to?

But yes The LEGO Group has always been toys first, with the (debated?) exception of The LEGO Movie...

[masterchirox580]

 

I don't think it's right to compare bionicle to FIM, FIM was/is created by professional writers and animators who had been in the business for a while, bionicle G2 on the other hand has no such talent behind it (at least not yet), the guys at lego (who likely had large control over the story) are thinking in the mindset of "toys first story second", so I think it's gonna take some time (and probably a TV show) before the story really goes places. 

 

FIM? MLPFIM My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic? ^{About forty different other explicit ~ highly-inappropriate abbreviations come to mind but obviously it's not those...} 

Who are you talking to?

But yes The LEGO Group has always been toys first, with the (debated?) exception of The LEGO Movie...

 

Yes I was referring to my little pony, I was talking to the OP. 

[graywolf89]

I don't think it's right to compare bionicle to FIM, FIM was/is created by professional writers and animators who had been in the business for a while, bionicle G2 on the other hand has no such talent behind it (at least not yet), the guys at lego (who likely had large control over the story) are thinking in the mindset of "toys first story second", so I think it's gonna take some time (and probably a TV show) before the story really goes places. 

I included FIM in my comparison because it's proof that despite having a dismal production value (it's freaking flash animation), a toy-based show can still be well-received and well loved if it's written by someone who genuinely cares (In other words, not what LEGO is doing to Bionicle's story at the moment). 

 

Now a Bionicle TV show would be interesting, but if the current state of the Bionicle story is any indication of what a TV show would be like, then I'm certain Lego would screw it up. I don't know why they replaced the original Bionicle story team with he team that managed Hero Factory's story. I mean seriously, Greg's no longer working on it...Christian Faber's gone, I think. 

 

I really, really hope Ryder Windham can make a compelling story for Bionicle once the books are published. Unfortunately, the new Bionicle book is going to have a lower age range than the previous books, which is very disappointing. The untitled novel has an age range of 7-10, grades 2-5. By comparison, Bionicle Chronicles had an age range of 9-12, grades 4-7.

Edited February 27, 2015 by graywolf89

[Regitnui]

Aiming media at kids doesn't automatically mean that adults cannot enjoy it and that it can't set up a well-crafted world. I enjoy Ricky Ricotta, a series aimed at the same market as the new Bionicle books. I enjoy it because I like seeing the child's view of the world contrasted with the implausibilities of the setting. First off, the world consists of talking, humanpod mice. The young protagonist, Ricky Ricotta, finds a giant robot and takes it home like one would a stray dog, and with roughly the same reaction from his parents. Then they fight spacefaring vultures from Venus. It's like distilled insanity.

[graywolf89]

Except at this point Bionicle's world is the farthest thing there is from being well-crafted. Watching the shallow, 90 second "story" videos was worrying enough, but seeing the lowered age range for the books is starting to make me believe Lego is turning this into another Hero Factory. That said, yes there's still a chance this line will be good, even if aimed at younger children. But I want a good story that takes itself seriously, not "distilled insanity" for little kids. Bionicle is about being epic, not being a joke, although a few good laughs wouldn't hurt. However, Lego needs to actually care for this to happen. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by graywolf89

[Regitnui]

Except at this point Bionicle's world is the farthest thing there is from being well-crafted. *snip* Bionicle is about being epic, *snip*

Pared it down for you. We've barely started, so none of us are really in a position to claim that Bionicle is not going the way we expect. It takes some time to build up to epic. Even Lord of the Rings started with a birthday party. At this point, the prudent thing to do is wait and see. (Of course, this being the internet...) Let's not complain about a story when we only know the opening chapter. I know it's against every instinct we have as modern consumers to wait for gratification, but sometimes it really does make more sense.

[graywolf89]

Thing is, G2 Bionicle is missing soooo many of the things it needs to build up to something epic.

 

1) We know virtually nothing about Okoto aside from the fact that it's split into six unnamed elemental regions. We don't know what the fauna is like, what the landscape is like, how the protectors got there etc..

 

2) None of the unnamed protector villages have been visited, despite being mentioned on the site. We also don't know the protector's names, even though they serve the important role of being the Toa's guides. Nothing about the protector's culture and language have been revealed, or why they need Ekimu to make them masks.

 

3) The Toa have been largely glossed over character-wise, and the Lord of Skull Spiders kinda just...appeared. There wasn't really a set up for him, it just seemed like all of a sudden *POOF* Okoto is under attack by Skull Spiders.  

 

It's important to have this info right off the bat to have a sense of mystery to draw people in. In my opinion, Bionicle G2 still has the chance to turn into a truly awesome story, but there's no doubt its launch could've been handled better, especially in comparison to that of G1 where you at least partly knew #1 and #2. I still plan to follow the G2 story in hopes of it building up, but I can't say I expect much.

Edited February 27, 2015 by graywolf89

[Lyichir]

Thing is, G2 Bionicle is missing soooo many of the things it needs to build up to something epic.

 

1) We know virtually nothing about Okoto aside from the fact that it's split into six unnamed elemental regions. We don't know what the fauna is like, what the landscape is like, how the protectors got there etc..

 

2) None of the unnamed protector villages have been visited, despite being mentioned on the site. We also don't know the protector's names, even though they serve the important role of being the Toa's guides. Nothing about the protector's culture and language have been revealed, or why they need Ekimu to make them masks.

 

3) The Toa have been largely glossed over character-wise, and the Lord of Skull Spiders kinda just...appeared. There wasn't really a set up for him, it just seemed like all of a sudden *POOF* Okoto is under attack by Skull Spiders.  

 

It's important to have this info right off the bat to have a sense of mystery to draw people in. In my opinion, Bionicle G2 still has the chance to turn into a truly awesome story, but there's no doubt its launch could've been handled better, especially in comparison to that of G1 where you at least partly knew #1 and #2. I still plan to follow the G2 story in hopes of it building up, but I can't say I expect much.

1) We actually DO know about at least the landscape of Okoto, from the regions' descriptions on the website. It would be nice to know more about flora and fauna, but on the other hand it's nice for MOCists, artists, and writers to have complete freedom to populate the island with their own creations. As for how the Protectors and villagers got there... that's not much of a problem at this stage, considering the original Bionicle took three years to even reveal that the Matoran weren't native to Mata Nui, and then took another two years just explaining how they got there. The current story, on the other hand, has been going on for two months (three if you're feeling generous).

 

2) It would be nice to visit the Protector villages! Maybe we'll see that in the books or other media, but given that all we've had so far are the animations, and they've used the limited time they're allotted fairly well, I don't think we should complain yet. You can compare the Bionicle comics, which didn't feature the villages themselves until the second year. The only difference is that back then we had the Mata Nui Online Game, and it's a darn shame there's nothing comparable this time around. Neither the Protectors nor the villages need names, because "Protector of Fire" and "Village of Fire" are both perfectly clear terms that refer to exclusive concepts. The Protectors' language, like the Matoran language for the most part, is English, the only difference being that it doesn't have as many non-English names sprinkled in. As for masks, we didn't know where they came from at all in the classic story until 2004, so the new story actually has a three-year lead on it.

 

3) While the animations haven't had much opportunity to flesh out the Toa, their basic character descriptions on the website actually have MORE detail than the original Toa bios (thanks largely to having more than one character trait apiece). The Skull Spiders' origin will likely be explored in the second half of the year (which, might I remind you, is more than four months away).

 

So yeah. More than half the info you mentioned is non-essential, premature, or already known. The new story isn't perfect, and will almost certainly get better once there's more media to explore it, but for the most part your complaints belie a lack of perspective and patience that seems to be common to a lot of fans these days.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Lyichir

[bionicleFanatic]

The only difference is that back then we had the Mata Nui Online Game, and it's a darn shame there's nothing comparable this time around.

 

 

Actually, see my sig []