Will Bionicle ever reach its full story potential?

[Lyichir]

 

The only difference is that back then we had the Mata Nui Online Game, and it's a darn shame there's nothing comparable this time around.

 

Actually, see my sig [ ]

 

I wasn't referring to fan-games (which may have the potential to be great but do not serve as another source of official story information). The Mata Nui Online Game was the primary story medium in Bionicle's first year. The comics hardly told a complete story at all, Quest for the Toa hardly served as anything more than a prequel, and the PC game ended up cancelled. But the online game managed to pull the theme's weight almost entirely on its own, with its immersive adventure game format helping to flesh out both the characters and the world they inhabited more effectively than anything else.

 

I'm not going to lie and say I don't miss that. But the Mata Nui Online Game was, in many ways, a fluke. It was not intended to tell as much of the year one story as it did, and there was really nothing comparable in subsequent years. And apart from that, the Bionicle story was not that different from the new story that first year. Heck, we're getting books this time around—something we didn't even get in the original theme until 2003. Yes, the animations may be the be-all and end-all of the story right now, but remember, we are still only two months in. There is plenty of time for the new story to build itself up into something greater.

[graywolf89]

 

Thing is, G2 Bionicle is missing soooo many of the things it needs to build up to something epic.

 

1) We know virtually nothing about Okoto aside from the fact that it's split into six unnamed elemental regions. We don't know what the fauna is like, what the landscape is like, how the protectors got there etc..

 

2) None of the unnamed protector villages have been visited, despite being mentioned on the site. We also don't know the protector's names, even though they serve the important role of being the Toa's guides. Nothing about the protector's culture and language have been revealed, or why they need Ekimu to make them masks.

 

3) The Toa have been largely glossed over character-wise, and the Lord of Skull Spiders kinda just...appeared. There wasn't really a set up for him, it just seemed like all of a sudden *POOF* Okoto is under attack by Skull Spiders.  

 

It's important to have this info right off the bat to have a sense of mystery to draw people in. In my opinion, Bionicle G2 still has the chance to turn into a truly awesome story, but there's no doubt its launch could've been handled better, especially in comparison to that of G1 where you at least partly knew #1 and #2. I still plan to follow the G2 story in hopes of it building up, but I can't say I expect much.

1) We actually DO know about at least the landscape of Okoto, from the regions' descriptions on the website. It would be nice to know more about flora and fauna, but on the other hand it's nice for MOCists, artists, and writers to have complete freedom to populate the island with their own creations. As for how the Protectors and villagers got there... that's not much of a problem at this stage, considering the original Bionicle took three years to even reveal that the Matoran weren't native to Mata Nui, and then took another two years just explaining how they got there. The current story, on the other hand, has been going on for two months (three if you're feeling generous).

 

2) It would be nice to visit the Protector villages! Maybe we'll see that in the books or other media, but given that all we've had so far are the animations, and they've used the limited time they're allotted fairly well, I don't think we should complain yet. You can compare the Bionicle comics, which didn't feature the villages themselves until the second year. The only difference is that back then we had the Mata Nui Online Game, and it's a darn shame there's nothing comparable this time around. Neither the Protectors nor the villages need names, because "Protector of Fire" and "Village of Fire" are both perfectly clear terms that refer to exclusive concepts. The Protectors' language, like the Matoran language for the most part, is English, the only difference being that it doesn't have as many non-English names sprinkled in. As for masks, we didn't know where they came from at all in the classic story until 2004, so the new story actually has a three-year lead on it.

 

3) While the animations haven't had much opportunity to flesh out the Toa, their basic character descriptions on the website actually have MORE detail than the original Toa bios (thanks largely to having more than one character trait apiece). The Skull Spiders' origin will likely be explored in the second half of the year (which, might I remind you, is more than four months away).

 

So yeah. More than half the info you mentioned is non-essential, premature, or already known. The new story isn't perfect, and will almost certainly get better once there's more media to explore it, but for the most part your complaints belie a lack of perspective and patience that seems to be common to a lot of fans these days.

 

 

1) The information on the website hardly counts as anything close to a description. The basic information, like how the region of ice is cold and the region of stone is very rocky is all there, but it's so shallow and generic they might as well have put in single sentences like "this place has a volcano, it's hot" for the descriptions.  In fact, the description for the region of fire is a mistake, it was probably meant for the protector of fire but no one bothered to correct it. Also, a setting should never, ever require headcanon in order to make it interesting. A good setting is one that's well-developed enough to stand on its own, at least initially.  Things like MOCs and fan-fiction can come later. Lego could've easily added more detail to the map.

 

2) The lack of info on the protector villages makes Okoto easily the most boring Bionicle setting so far, more so than Bara Magna. And at the very least the protectors  need names, simply because common sense dictates that characters in a story would have names. If the protectors can be considered nothing more than "concepts" despite their supposed importance, then so can the Toa. We might as well call Tahu the "master of fire" from now on. Would it really kill Lego to flesh them out and give them descriptions on the website, instead of having generic copy and paste "descriptions"?  

 

3) It's one of the basics of good storytelling to give the villains a motive and a reason for appearing. Any explanation, e.g. "the Lord of Skull Spiders wishes to reawaken his master, the Makuta," would suffice over none.

 

 

 

 

All of the "non-essential" info I mentioned was what made Bionicle the Bionicle we all know and love. It's because of all the "non-essential" information that G1 Bionicle wasn't horribly generic, and felt unique enough to stand on its own. I know you didn't think G1 was "exceptional," and it certainly had its flaws, but it was the epitome of Lego's storytelling and world-building.

 

Right now G2 is little better than Island Jungle Hero factory with cooler names. And yes, you're right when you say that the G1 launch wasn't any better. But you can't compare the G2 launch with the G1 launch because Lego is a lot richer now than in 2001, and they have all the resources they need to craft a good story (*cough* partnership with Warner Bros. *cough*). In theory, fans shouldn't be expecting less or even the same quality of stuff from them-truth is we should be expecting A LOT more from Lego in regards to Bionicle's return.  

 

I'm not asking for a perfect story- I'll settle for "good" as I said earlier. And I can stand Lego not wanting to put a lot of funding or focus onto Bionicle. But what I can't stand is their lack of effort on the line. All three of the flaws I mentioned above could have been rectified earlier in the launch, for little to no cost. Most of it simply involves expanding the descriptions of the landscapes and characters on the website and adding more pictures. Why Lego doesn't bother to do that escapes me.  

Edited March 1, 2015 by graywolf89

[RahiSpeak]

Don't get me wrong, MNOG was good and there will always be a soft spot for it in the BIONICLE fan-community, but times have changed and it may just be something completely impractical to resurrect. LEGO is a proclaimed master in their market; so while it would be great for there to be another similar game, LEGO's numerous studies may indicate that such a game would not reach the popularity necessary to make the endeavor worthwhile. Then again, the lego.com of today features some of the worst, most poorly made games in history, which is quite a departure from the entertaining ones that they used to have. Perhaps those studies also indicate that few people have ever frequented the games section. After all, the site has warned me more than once that it implements cookies; they must know what everyone has been doing there and it has nothing to do with games. I suppose what I am trying to say is that while an MNOG-style game would invoke nostalgia in long-time fans, virtually no one else would appreciate it.

 

Anyway, as far as the Gen2 story in general goes, at very least the current story is open-ended. At any time, story-quality can be ramped up with absolutely no restrictions caused by the previous plot.

[Lyichir]

 

 

Thing is, G2 Bionicle is missing soooo many of the things it needs to build up to something epic.

 

1) We know virtually nothing about Okoto aside from the fact that it's split into six unnamed elemental regions. We don't know what the fauna is like, what the landscape is like, how the protectors got there etc..

 

2) None of the unnamed protector villages have been visited, despite being mentioned on the site. We also don't know the protector's names, even though they serve the important role of being the Toa's guides. Nothing about the protector's culture and language have been revealed, or why they need Ekimu to make them masks.

 

3) The Toa have been largely glossed over character-wise, and the Lord of Skull Spiders kinda just...appeared. There wasn't really a set up for him, it just seemed like all of a sudden *POOF* Okoto is under attack by Skull Spiders.  

 

It's important to have this info right off the bat to have a sense of mystery to draw people in. In my opinion, Bionicle G2 still has the chance to turn into a truly awesome story, but there's no doubt its launch could've been handled better, especially in comparison to that of G1 where you at least partly knew #1 and #2. I still plan to follow the G2 story in hopes of it building up, but I can't say I expect much.

1) We actually DO know about at least the landscape of Okoto, from the regions' descriptions on the website. It would be nice to know more about flora and fauna, but on the other hand it's nice for MOCists, artists, and writers to have complete freedom to populate the island with their own creations. As for how the Protectors and villagers got there... that's not much of a problem at this stage, considering the original Bionicle took three years to even reveal that the Matoran weren't native to Mata Nui, and then took another two years just explaining how they got there. The current story, on the other hand, has been going on for two months (three if you're feeling generous).

 

2) It would be nice to visit the Protector villages! Maybe we'll see that in the books or other media, but given that all we've had so far are the animations, and they've used the limited time they're allotted fairly well, I don't think we should complain yet. You can compare the Bionicle comics, which didn't feature the villages themselves until the second year. The only difference is that back then we had the Mata Nui Online Game, and it's a darn shame there's nothing comparable this time around. Neither the Protectors nor the villages need names, because "Protector of Fire" and "Village of Fire" are both perfectly clear terms that refer to exclusive concepts. The Protectors' language, like the Matoran language for the most part, is English, the only difference being that it doesn't have as many non-English names sprinkled in. As for masks, we didn't know where they came from at all in the classic story until 2004, so the new story actually has a three-year lead on it.

 

3) While the animations haven't had much opportunity to flesh out the Toa, their basic character descriptions on the website actually have MORE detail than the original Toa bios (thanks largely to having more than one character trait apiece). The Skull Spiders' origin will likely be explored in the second half of the year (which, might I remind you, is more than four months away).

 

So yeah. More than half the info you mentioned is non-essential, premature, or already known. The new story isn't perfect, and will almost certainly get better once there's more media to explore it, but for the most part your complaints belie a lack of perspective and patience that seems to be common to a lot of fans these days.

 

 

1) The information on the website hardly counts as anything close to a description. The basic information, like how the region of ice is cold and the region of stone is very rocky is all there, but it's so shallow and generic they might as well have put in single sentences like "this place has a volcano, it's hot" for the descriptions.  In fact, the description for the region of fire is a mistake, it was probably meant for the protector of fire but no one bothered to correct it. Also, a setting should never, ever require headcanon in order to make it interesting. A good setting is one that's well-developed enough to stand on its own, at least initially.  Things like MOCs and fan-fiction can come later. Lego could've easily added more detail to the map.

 

2) The lack of info on the protector villages makes Okoto easily the most boring Bionicle setting so far, more so than Bara Magna. And at the very least the protectors  need names, simply because common sense dictates that characters in a story would have names. If the protectors can be considered nothing more than "concepts" despite their supposed importance, then so can the Toa. We might as well call Tahu the "master of fire" from now on. Would it really kill Lego to flesh them out and give them descriptions on the website, instead of having generic copy and paste "descriptions"?  

 

3) It's one of the basics of good storytelling to give the villains a motive and a reason for appearing. Any explanation, e.g. "the Lord of Skull Spiders wishes to reawaken his master, the Makuta," would suffice over none.

 

 

 

 

All of the "non-essential" info I mentioned was what made Bionicle the Bionicle we all know and love. It's because of all the "non-essential" information that G1 Bionicle wasn't horribly generic, and felt unique enough to stand on its own. I know you didn't think G1 was "exceptional," and it certainly had its flaws, but it was the epitome of Lego's storytelling and world-building.

 

Right now G2 is little better than Island Jungle Hero factory with cooler names. And yes, you're right when you say that the G1 launch wasn't any better. But you can't compare the G2 launch with the G1 launch because Lego is a lot richer now than in 2001, and they have all the resources they need to craft a good story (*cough* partnership with Warner Bros. *cough*). In theory, fans shouldn't be expecting less or even the same quality of stuff from them-truth is we should be expecting A LOT more from Lego in regards to Bionicle's return.  

 

I'm not asking for a perfect story- I'll settle for "good" as I said earlier. And I can stand Lego not wanting to put a lot of funding or focus onto Bionicle. But what I can't stand is their lack of effort on the line. All three of the flaws I mentioned above could have been rectified earlier in the launch, for little to no cost. Most of it simply involves expanding the descriptions of the landscapes and characters on the website and adding more pictures. Why Lego doesn't bother to do that escapes me.

 

Re: The regions of Okoto being ill-defined—maybe that's so that there's plenty of blank spaces for the story to explore, instead of using up all the story potential Okoto offers within a year. The classic Bionicle couldn't ever stick around a setting for more than three years, while themes like Ninjago have managed to stick with one overall setting much longer thanks to a map that's not filled in completely from the get-go. We might very well get more information about Okoto before the year is up, and still leave plenty of room for future adventures.

 

Re: Protector names—I used the word "concept" because I needed a term that encompassed both them and the villages, so don't get cheeky. Having names is in no way a requirement for a character, or have you forgotten "The Shadowed One"? I would indeed like more characterization for the Protectors than what we've gotten, but seeing as we haven't even gotten a single book yet I'm more than willing to be patient.

 

Re: Skull Spiders—we know that they're stealing masks. The story has not explicitly clarified why, and there's good reason for that—currently they're nothing more than a mysterious looming threat. They're kind of like the Bohrok in that respect—an enigmatic threat that needs to be stopped—and like the Bohrok, I fully expect the Skull Spiders' motivations (spoiler alert: they're working for Makuta) to be explicitly detailed later, if anyone's willing to wait that long.

 

You point out that so many of the things you mention could be fixed at little to no cost, and I agree fully. But what you don't seem to understand is that there are a lot of explanations for WHY things like that are missing other than laziness (laziness ironically being one of the laziest accusations that can be thrown at people). Just for example, Lego representatives have been explicit about why the Protectors don't have names—it is 100% an intentional decision aimed at minimizing the amount of jargon being dropped on newcomers to the franchise. But Bionicle fans who have grown accustomed to a story that needed its own lexicon aren't happy with that explanation, so it's much easier to ignore it and assume Lego is just too lazy to accommodate them. I'm getting extremely tired of that attitude.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Lyichir

[Sergei Rahkmaninoff]

I can't say I consider the lack of Protector names to be in the same vein as the lack of the Shadowed One's name. Regardless of the reasoning, the Shadowed One not having a name ended up used to define his character. Saying he has a name, but it has been lost to time and those who would know it would never dare speak it aloud, is a statement of his character. He's evil, powerful, mysterious.

 

But just calling each Protector, 'Protector of Insert Element Here' just seems boring and formulaic, and because there are six of them with the exact same naming scheme, it doesn't say anything about them as unique characters. To me, it says the exact opposite: they're all exactly the same, in name and character, except for variation in element. Deliberate the decision may have been, but I say it was also bad. They could even package them exactly the same, but reveal online the current Protectors' names. That way the sets could represent any generation of Protectors, from those who found Ekimu to those who greeted the Toa, but at least we could know that the current ones do in fact have unique names.

 

I'm not saying we should have all the old terms back (though I would like it!), but going from 8 unique names to 14 doesn't seem like it should be that much of a problem. It might not be laziness, but I do say it is oversimplification.

[Regitnui]

Graywolf, your argument is in danger of coming across as petty; "It's been two months. Why haven't we gotten the entire backstory? Why haven't we gotten details on all the animals and ecosystems of this island? Why haven't we been told the exact reasons and motivation for the giant spider that is currently our main villain?"

 

You have the patience of a hyperactive two-year-old. The Lord of the Ring did not jump straight to Mount Doom and show us the final conflict on the volcano's ledge, then cut back to the beginning of the story. Yes, all of your 'problems' could have been fixed. They could have also handed out bound copies of the story bible for the next three years at NYCC. Your grasp of 'good storytelling' seems to be entirely based on cartoons and movies, not books or any long-term form of narrative. You do not play all your cards at the beginning of the story. You do not dump exposition onto your readers' faces when they stop to hear your story. Mystery and intrigue are the buzzwords here.

 

Though I would like to have names for the protectors, it isn't necessary. Their office, their role is important, not their personal histories.

[fishers64]

I think both opinions of this are exaggerating. A story needs to provide a bare minimum of information to start it off - namely, the setting, the characters, and the intriguing idea that starts off the conflict.

 

The setting is the island of Okoto. We get a bland description of it and a few maps. It's nice. Do we get to explore it and learn more about it, or is that all there is? There's a point of intrigue in the Ancient City - do we get to learn more about that?

 

So far, there's no implication, so the answer seems to be: no.

 

The characters are the Toa and the Protectors. The Toa are introduced, but aside from the bios, they are just names, except for Tahu. Do we get to see them react to the mysteries here and learn more about them? Who your main character is shouldn't be a mystery in some respects - they should have SOMETHING for the audience to relate to.

 

Nope.  

 

The conflict is Skull Spiders attacking the villagers. Is that really an dynamite opening? I mean, Tahu just shrugs off a few of them when they attack. Got more? A convenient Maguffin takes care of that. Why should I care about this conflict? Is it important to the mysteries being presented? Is it a serious threat to Tahu and Co? Is an evil villain toying with them from the wings? Um, nope. Looks like he's napping.

 

No answer. 

 

Now the answer "You can fill in those blanks yourself" is a nice one. But first I have to care about those blanks and have something that I think might fill them. It's hard to want to put effort into fanfiction when the original writers of the story don't seem to care about writing the thing.

 

All they care about is their marketing pitches and bottom lines and toys sold. I'm realistic. I understand that. But it's bad storytelling - I say this as a writer. If I tried to market a story with the amount of detail Bionicle 2015 has given me to any publisher, I'd be laughed out of the room. Rule #1 - story must be clear that it will be interesting, that I will learn more. 

 

But could they at least pretend to care? Enough to give a Protector a name? Enough to draw a map of Ancient City or even, heaven forbid, dedicate a 90 second episode to providing some details on the other Toa's arrivals? Do they really need to shove the fact that "We're just here to make a buck, we don't care about quality no more" in my face?

 

Because that's the thing about Greg, despite everything he did wrong, at least he cared about the story he was writing at the end of the day. The lack of detail here says that "I don't care about writing a good story at all, I don't care about making my characters relatable, my settings intriguing, my conflict substantial." It's just isn't there. 

 

And before you start on something else, Bionicle G1 put in that effort. Two chapters into MNOG, I have at least one character's personality established, a weird and intriguing setting on the beach that I could explore, and a conflict between a Rahi and a bunch of villagers, whom I soon get to know. Even Hero Factory did a better job giving me a picture of Stormer than Bionicle G2 has of even Tahu. HF established two settings in five minutes, and one of the biggest disappointments was that we never got more of what the story seemed to promise. At least to me, anyway. 

 

* * *

Yes, all ye reboot proponents/set fans/category I can't think of can repeat the truth. The truth is what it is. If anyone comes along that is in denial about any of the things, I'd be more than willing to tell them what you just told me. 

 

But I don't think for a minute I'd find the stomach to be happy about it. It's probably not the fault of anyone here, but every time I see posts that claim the Okoto story is just fine, or even good, excellent, what have you, in response to someone who complains about the story...Argh. You have right to your opinion, but still. Give us a break, please. 

 

At the end of the day, I'm a storyteller. I'm not a person who lives in denial of truth, but sometimes the truth sucks. Not everyone on this forum thinks every one of Lego's decisions is the best thing since sliced cheese anymore, if we ever did. 

 

And for me, intent and purpose will never excuse lack of quality. And intent and purpose will never make bad quality stuff good. 

[bionicleFanatic]

 

I'm not going to lie and say I don't miss that. But the Mata Nui Online Game was, in many ways, a fluke. It was not intended to tell as much of the year one story as it did, and there was really nothing comparable in subsequent years. And apart from that, the Bionicle story was not that different from the new story that first year. Heck, we're getting books this time around—something we didn't even get in the original theme until 2003. Yes, the animations may be the be-all and end-all of the story right now, but remember, we are still only two months in. There is plenty of time for the new story to build itself up into something greater.

 

 

Umm... Are you sure that MNOG wasn't meant to tell as much of the 2001 story as it did? Because I think it was, actually, otherwise it wouldn't have [] Seriously, it takes effort to tell a story in a game, you can't "accidentally" do it []

[Aanchir]

 

I'm not going to lie and say I don't miss that. But the Mata Nui Online Game was, in many ways, a fluke. It was not intended to tell as much of the year one story as it did, and there was really nothing comparable in subsequent years. And apart from that, the Bionicle story was not that different from the new story that first year. Heck, we're getting books this time around—something we didn't even get in the original theme until 2003. Yes, the animations may be the be-all and end-all of the story right now, but remember, we are still only two months in. There is plenty of time for the new story to build itself up into something greater.

 

Umm... Are you sure that MNOG wasn't meant to tell as much of the 2001 story as it did? Because I think it was, actually, otherwise it wouldn't have [ ] Seriously, it takes effort to tell a story in a game, you can't "accidentally" do it []

 

Templar Studios revealed in their blog that the Mata Nui Online Game was actually never meant to cover the conclusion of the 2001 story (the Toa's final battle with Makuta) and that the only reason it DID, in the end, was that the PC game which was supposed to cover that part of the story got cancelled and the Mata Nui Online Game (which had previously been designed as a side-story) had to pick up the slack.

 

So no, it didn't cover that much of the story by accident, but that was not the intent in the beginning, but rather a responsibility the creators took on midway through development.

[SPIRIT]

That being said, Aanchir, I think even a background-style story like MNOG was initially intended to be would do wonders for the new Bionicle.  You just get a much fuller appreciation for an imaginary place when you can explore it at your own pace, talk to the townsfolk, and get a look at things happening behind the scenes.  I mean, obviously we want to know what the Toa are up to, but it's also neat to get to know what the background characters are doing too just to make the world feel more alive.

[Regitnui]

*Controversial Opinion*

 

Has anyone considered that MNOG might have been where the 'bloated background syndrome' began? With the villages needing to be populated, the developers introduced 12 (2 matoran from each village) additional named characters who were, at that stage, pointless except for world-building. While I'm not saying that many of them didn't go on to have long, fruitful stories (Matoro :'( ), we didn't need them at the time. Only the Toa were strictly necessary, and the Turaga were little more than exposition fairies.

 

Taking MNOG out of play, we have 6 Toa and 6 Turaga as defined characters in Year1/Gen1. Much like this year, where we have 6 Toa and 6 Protectors as characters. Not especially well-defined characters at this point, I'll admit. But, again, taking MNOG out of the picture, how much did we really know about Gen1 two months after launch?

 

With MNOG providing such wonderful background to that year, we began to expect a similar level of detail for each year and setting. This allowed, little by little, for extraneous organizations and characters to leak in. Nidhiki and Krekka weren't just random servants of the Makuta. They were to be Dark Hunters. The Barraki weren't just six random sea monsters, they were warlords from time immemorial. Little by little, with each new round of antagonists and plot devices, we the fans wanted more detail. And providing that detail built us a huge, living MU, but also a backstory the size of the Prototype robot. When you're telling a story about three kids in a playground, you don't have to explain that the neighbourhood bully's great-grandparents built the park. You just show us the kids winning their confidence and leisure time back.

 

*sits and waits for the flames*

[SPIRIT]

*Controversial Opinion*

 

Has anyone considered that MNOG might have been where the 'bloated background syndrome' began? With the villages needing to be populated, the developers introduced 12 (2 matoran from each village) additional named characters who were, at that stage, pointless except for world-building. While I'm not saying that many of them didn't go on to have long, fruitful stories (Matoro :'( ), we didn't need them at the time. Only the Toa were strictly necessary, and the Turaga were little more than exposition fairies.

 

Taking MNOG out of play, we have 6 Toa and 6 Turaga as defined characters in Year1/Gen1. Much like this year, where we have 6 Toa and 6 Protectors as characters. Not especially well-defined characters at this point, I'll admit. But, again, taking MNOG out of the picture, how much did we really know about Gen1 two months after launch?

 

With MNOG providing such wonderful background to that year, we began to expect a similar level of detail for each year and setting. This allowed, little by little, for extraneous organizations and characters to leak in. Nidhiki and Krekka weren't just random servants of the Makuta. They were to be Dark Hunters. The Barraki weren't just six random sea monsters, they were warlords from time immemorial. Little by little, with each new round of antagonists and plot devices, we the fans wanted more detail. And providing that detail built us a huge, living MU, but also a backstory the size of the Prototype robot. When you're telling a story about three kids in a playground, you don't have to explain that the neighbourhood bully's great-grandparents built the park. You just show us the kids winning their confidence and leisure time back.

 

*sits and waits for the flames*

I'm pretty sure Jala, Maku, Huki, Matoro, Kongu, and Onepu were all created for the McDonald's promotion.

 

And of course there was lots of background stuff in 2001.  The initial behind Bionicle was to tell a story across as many types of media as possible.  You need the stories to be relatively self-contained, so that someone can start at any point and understand it without needing to have experienced any of the other points.  The easiest way to do that is to have the stories be loosely associated.

 

2001 had the comics, MNOG, Tales of the Tohunga, Bionicle.com content, regular set, McDonald's sets, the mini comics provided in those sets, the promotional CDs, CGI commercials, music, and almost had a second video game too.  It has always been a broad world and it's always been up to the observer how much they want to delve into it.

 

If you're fine with a story about magic rainbow robots, then that's what the story is.  If you want to know more about their world, then you can explore it further; if you prefer things to be simpler, then you can just ignore it.

[Regitnui]

But that's my point. The main argument against linking the generations is the backstory, and the topic of this thread is the lack of a similar backstory for gen2. I'm asking what if the MNOG wasn't the root of the problem that became apparent in later years of Gen2, and the reason we're not getting that much media saturation is a) they want to avoid the metric ton of backstory accumulating again, and b) they have two other highly successful story-based lines to work on (Chima and Ninjago, though I suppose Elves could join those ranks). BIONICLE gen 1 was Lego's saving throw against bankruptcy. Of course they'd put everything they had behind it. Now that they're more solvent, there's little reason to push the story as heavily as they did last time.

[Aanchir]

*Controversial Opinion*

 

Has anyone considered that MNOG might have been where the 'bloated background syndrome' began? With the villages needing to be populated, the developers introduced 12 (2 matoran from each village) additional named characters who were, at that stage, pointless except for world-building. While I'm not saying that many of them didn't go on to have long, fruitful stories (Matoro :'( ), we didn't need them at the time. Only the Toa were strictly necessary, and the Turaga were little more than exposition fairies.

Technically, most background characters in Mata Nui Online Game were just that: background characters. Only the Matoran who sat at the Turaga's right and left hands (The six McToran plus Kapura, Kotu, Tamaru, Kopeke, Hafu, and Taipu) were actually named. It wasn't until Mata Nui Online Game II that names and occupations were given to all the random background characters.

 

I do have to wonder some things about Mata Nui Online Game's effectiveness, though. Certainly it told a great story; certainly it helped to immerse us in its world better than any subsequent online game for any LEGO theme has done. But one has to wonder — how many people actually played through it to the end? It's possible that the number might be smaller than we think, especially considering the long loading times that were associated with it when it was originally released! And if that's the case, it's easy to see why an online game has never since played such an essential role in conveying a universe's story.

 

It's simply not a smart investment to pour money into a story-intensive game if many users will not have the patience to experience that whole story. Some of the Hero Factory and Ninjago online games had surprisingly impressive world-building, but I never had the patience to play through them, since as action games they were not my preferred genre. Now, how many kids do you think there are who DO prefer action games to adventure games like the Mata Nui Online Game, and grew bored of running errands for NPCs and trying to remember how to get from place to place?

 

There are also some cost and time factors to consider in why we haven't gotten a game like MNOG for so long. Back when MNOG came out, the LEGO website only existed in three languages: English, French, and German. Today, the LEGO website exists in eighteen languages. Translating a text-intensive game into that many languages could be a huge burden on the web team, which already seems to be spread thin managing the many LEGO websites in their current state.

[fishers64]

I don't know. While I hired my little brother to get through most of the action-y games, MNOG was actually one of the few games I got through on my own. It's not that hard to play.

 

And I remember the "eager-beaver" mentality I had back when I had dial-up, reading my library books, and checking back every few minutes to see if the game had loaded. So I don't think loading times would be a problem if the game was good enough. (Of course, I had to download it waaay back in 2006, which took longer...then I played MNOG while waiting for other games to load. I think it's a matter of preference and endurance in completing games. I tend to be a "must finish" type.)

[Takametru007]

in my definition, "full potential" would mean a TV show- I could see Bionicle G2 having a Ben 10-like cartoon, something action-y and fun.

 

maybe next reboot. ?

[RahiSpeak]

in my definition, "full potential" would mean a TV show- I could see Bionicle G2 having a Ben 10-like cartoon, something action-y and fun.

maybe next reboot. ?

A TV-show has nothing to do with story-potential; TV is just a medium for a story

to take place in (like books and animated shorts), not the story itself. Personally, I would not mind a TV-show, but only under the condition that it would be done well. After seeing just a little of HERO FACORY, Ninjago, and Legends of Chima, I do not think that LEGO currently has the capacity of directing a good TV-show. A bad TV-show certainly is not better than no TV-show, therefore, it might be best if LEGO decided not to go down that route at all. Besides, the first generation of BIONICLE was like a testing-grounds for media, perhaps this time around we can expect a media-revolution; something different than they have ever done before?

[toa kopaka4372]

BIONICLE G1 was at its best in the books and some of the serials. I'd probably rather have that than a TV show, provided they are of the same quality of the originals.

[RahiSpeak]

BIONICLE G1 was at its best in the books and some of the serials. I'd probably rather have that than a TV show, provided they are of the same quality of the originals.

Agreed. Although I would still like to see a unique approach as well.

[Sir Kohran]

*Controversial Opinion*

 

Has anyone considered that MNOG might have been where the 'bloated background syndrome' began? With the villages needing to be populated, the developers introduced 12 (2 matoran from each village) additional named characters who were, at that stage, pointless except for world-building. While I'm not saying that many of them didn't go on to have long, fruitful stories (Matoro :'( ), we didn't need them at the time. Only the Toa were strictly necessary, and the Turaga were little more than exposition fairies.

 

*sits and waits for the flames*

 

I'm not going to flame you, but I am going to point out that this is incorrect.

 

Jala, Maku, Huki, Onepu, Kongu, Matoro and Hafu in 2001 were released as sets, featured in the comics and had character pages on the website. All that would require them to be characters created by the story team, not just by Templar. As for the other named Matoran, Takua was also an official character chosen to be the game's main character to establish him for the future, Kapura was going to have two cameos in the Legend of Mata Nui game, and even Tamaru has an appearance in the Legend of Lewa comic. Put simply, these characters all existed outside of MNOLG.

 

Now, I'm pretty sure Templar did create some other Matoran characters to fulfil certain roles in the stories they were telling, like the trader for the infected Comets, and the Astrologer for opening the Sundial. What gives it away that Templar created them and not the story team is that they were unnamed and didn't appear as sets or in other media.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Sir Kohran

[graywolf89]

 Yes, all of your 'problems' could have been fixed. They could have also handed out bound copies of the story bible for the next three years at NYCC. 

LOL, remind me how wanting a fleshed out story suddenly equates to wanting the entire story bible? 

 

 You do not play all your cards at the beginning of the story. You do not dump exposition onto your readers' faces when they stop to hear your story. Mystery and intrigue are the buzzwords here.

 

You need to have cards to play them in the first place. The fact that all of the content in the 90 second shorts can be summed up in a single sentence as "Tahu and the other Toa arrived and gathered their masks" just illustrates how shallow the story is. And how can you even think to bring up mystery and intrigue, when exposition is literally all the 90 second webisodes are! They're just piling "story" into people's faces, without bothering to add depth to it. 

 

 

 

Though I would like to have names for the protectors, it isn't necessary. Their office, their role is important, not their personal histories.

 

It is necessary, because they are what you call "characters".

 

 Your grasp of 'good storytelling' seems to be entirely based on cartoons and movies, not books or any long-term form of narrative. 

 

 

 Long term narrative, regardless of medium, still requires an effective set up. These are: a good premise, interesting characterization, and expansive world building. World building is what makes a long term narrative engaging; it's what keeps the world interesting and serves to add flavor to the basic story.

 

 

 

Mystery and intrigue are the buzzwords here.

 

 

 

Lack of world building is what kills "mystery and intrigue". In good long term stories the world building starts the beginning of a story to draw readers in, and is then paced evenly throughout it rather than being held back for the sake of "mystery". G1 never had "too much world building" as you say; it was just poorly handled due to serialization, lack of a consistent medium, lack of planning for the serials, and some poor story decisions on Greg's part. But problems like these can be easily fixed by changing the format for story info, having a consistent medium *cough* TV show *cough*, having more than one writer be in charge of the story, and just better pre-planning in general. 

 

 

 

 BIONICLE gen 1 was Lego's saving throw against bankruptcy. Of course they'd put everything they had behind it. Now that they're more solvent, there's little reason to push the story as heavily as they did last time.

 

So LEGO needs to be on the brink of bankruptcy to craft a good story? Man that's sad.

Edited March 7, 2015 by graywolf89

[Regitnui]

 

 

BIONICLE gen 1 was Lego's saving throw against bankruptcy. Of course they'd put everything they had behind it. Now that they're more solvent, there's little reason to push the story as heavily as they did last time.

So LEGO needs to be on the brink of bankruptcy to craft a good story? Man that's sad.

I am going to let the rest of your "wrong, wrong, wrong, my opinion" slide, but this i feel deserves a correction; Gen 1 didn't have a good story because TLC was sliding into bankruptcy. Gen1 had a high media saturation due to TLC sliding into bankruptcy. They put everything they had into G1, because they had to or lose the company. They don't have to put the same amount of emphasis on Gen 2's story because they have Chima and licensed sets that also turn a profit. Bionicle is not their only lifeline right now, so it's not going to be pushed as heavily.

 

'01: "The Toa find their masks and stop the Rahi attacks." By your logic, that makes the story shallow.

 

Gen 1: "A jealous Makuta dethrones the ruler of the universe to take over himself." The entirety of Gen 1 is shallow too, because it can be summarized in one sentence.

 

Please keep in mind that this is the first half of the first year of a three-year story. You've essentially read up to the Rivendell scene in Fellowship of the Rings and claiming that the writer put no effort in, and that you can tell both The Two Towers and Return of the King are going to be horrible because they can't measure up to the Hobbit. See why I say you're starting to sound a little unreasonable?

Edited March 7, 2015 by Regitnui

[Takametru007]

I guess I should redefine my opinion of "full potential" to mean the exposure and reach of the Bionicle property- in my opinion, a really good TV show would be among the most effective ways to familiarize a large audience (particularly the target market) with the Bionicle characters and world, if not one of the more costly ways.

 

after all, TV shows are what made Transformers such a big deal, and eventually became the primary vehicle of storytelling for the series, I believe. imagine: being able to watch a Season 4 of Bionicle on Netflix...

[Lyichir]

I guess I should redefine my opinion of "full potential" to mean the exposure and reach of the Bionicle property- in my opinion, a really good TV show would be among the most effective ways to familiarize a large audience (particularly the target market) with the Bionicle characters and world, if not one of the more costly ways.

 

after all, TV shows are what made Transformers such a big deal, and eventually became the primary vehicle of storytelling for the series, I believe. imagine: being able to watch a Season 4 of Bionicle on Netflix...

I would agree that TV remains one of the best ways to increase a brand's exposure, but I believe part of the reason for the web-based content is not to increase exposure but rather to maximize fans' ability to catch up on past story. Netflix and other instant video services may be gaining ground, but they still represent only a percentage of the viewing audience available for broadcast television. And outside of those services, home media, and occasional reruns, it could be very hard to catch up on the Bionicle story several years down the line (as it was for the past story, given how hard to obtain older books could be). Hosting Bionicle's video content on the website alleviates that problem while still making the story available to a sizeable audience.

 

The obvious counterpoint to that is that a TV series could be made easily available online as well, but networks tend to prefer a certain amount of exclusivity when picking up a new series, and those networks' own online players can be notoriously inconvenient compared to YouTube and Lego.com (Cartoon Network's being a prime example, only offering full episodes of Ninjago to registered users and only hosting them in pitifully low quality).

 

One final point. We're much more likely to see things like movies or a TV series a year or more down the line. Right now Bionicle needs to prove its brand power once again through sales data, and until then TV networks and studios have good reason to be hesitant about a brand that has had its ups and downs over the years.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Lyichir