Similarities to a Japanese myth: Ekimu and Makuta (Muramasa and Masamu

[Anapouri]

I noticed that the backstory behind the current start of the G2 BIONICLE story seems to have a bit of inspiration drawing from the Japanese mythos of the rivalry between Muramasa and Masamune.

 

If you're unfamiliar with the myth, you can check it out here. Though it's a historical Japanese myth, these two people did live in different eras for each other, but were known for forging legendary swords and became famous for the quality and mastery of their art. According to the myth, Muramasa, whose blades could cut and destroy with ease but were known for being bloodthirsty and cursed, was jealous of Masamune, whose swords were so powerful they could create and restore compared to destroy and kill.

http://loreandlegends.blogspot.com/2008/07/muramasa-and-masamune.html

 

http://pjj.cc/test2/register/viewer.php?su=Legend&fm=view

 

http://afistfulofrubbish.tumblr.com/post/96664617501/10-000-cold-nights

Edited February 17, 2015 by Anapouri

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

It's become a pretty stock set-up that was even repeated in G1 with Artakha and Karzahni, and to a lesser extent Vakama and Nuhrii. I don't know if the story team based it fully on the Japanese myth. Still, Ekimu and Okoto sound fairly Japanese, plus people have pointed out Tahu's similarity to a samurai so maybe some of it was intentional. Pretty cool though! 

 

-NotS

[Akavakaku]

Wow, very cool find! I wouldn't be surprised if Artakha and Karzahni were originally based on this.

[Regitnui]

The story also draws on Cain and Abel from Christian mythology; two brothers, one was jealous of the other and committed a grevious sin to gain equality.

[Toa Jaxus]

I do feel that the look of Okoto in the first movie for G2, the Legend, is more asian than the polynesian feel of G1. But whether or not Ekimu and Makuta are based off Masamune and Muramasa is something I feel there isn't enough evidence for.

[Iblis]

I ... every the story draws on X, are ...well; these tropes aren't exactly new, nor are they rare;

To say they were inspired by any of the aforementioned things seems either unevidenced or utterly generic...

[Sir Kohran]

The story also draws on Cain and Abel from Christian mythology; two brothers, one was jealous of the other and committed a grevious sin to gain equality.

 

That's an Old Testament story and so is Jewish.

 

As for the first post, both stories are just tapping into a common motif in mythology, brotherly rivalry and betrayal.

[Iblis]

 

That's an Old Testament story and so is Jewish.

 

As for the first post, both stories are just tapping into a common motif in mythology, brotherly rivalry and betrayal.

 

 

> Implying religious labels are mutually exclusive

 

But yes incredibly common motif

[aldero]

I wouldn't be surprised that LEGO is drawing inspiration from a foreign culture, because they've done that several times before. Using a preexisting myth would have properly guided the story team to making the G2 story more mythological.

[Regitnui]

 

 

The story also draws on Cain and Abel from Christian mythology; two brothers, one was jealous of the other and committed a grevious sin to gain equality.

That's an Old Testament story and so is Jewish.

Sorry, I was under the impression that the story was in the Bible, Pentateuch and the Qur'an, seeing as Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all branches off the same tree.

 

In any case, this should give us a good list of just how common the Cain&Abel trope is in fiction. God bless Tvtropes!

Edited February 17, 2015 by Regitnui

[Lyichir]

Ha! I was aware of that legend but I hadn't considered how it parallels the Bionicle 2015 backstory. It's quite an apt comparison, given Ekimu and Makuta's "legendary craftsman" status. Whether it was even a consideration in the writing of the story... no telling. But it certainly helps ground the characters in well-known archetypes.

[Anapouri]

It may be a common motif, but I found it interesting, which is why I pointed it out. No need to dismiss it due to it being a commonality. I even gave links that explained and expressed the mythos of Muramasa and Masamune to help back up my statement, so you can't say there isn't any evidence of it being inspired or drawing from something as such. Even that in itself is to point out that it is drawing from SOMETHING in that general archetype if you consider it one. Just making discussion, you know?

Also careful with the religious stuff, I think that's against the rules here? But yes it does seem to draw from the Christian Cane and Able mythos as well.

----

I think the Japanese myth stood out to me more in relation to Ekimu and Makuta due to the craftsman trade involved.

[fishers64]

I think the Japanese myth stood out to me more in relation to Ekimu and Makuta due to the craftsman trade involved.

This. 

 

Somewhat related: 

 

 

 

Looks like Lego is going for the anime vibe this time around. Between the "Okoto" and the removal of certain Maori terminology, it would appear that they are heading that direction.

 

I heard that something word that was almost similar in spelling to Okoto is a New Zealand city, or something. Didn't the Maori come from there

 

It's not just Okoto, they are fighting in the "mountains of Okoto". Fighting/living in a mountain setting is Asian-y culture generally. Also the leaked set names which we can't talk about seem to suggest this as well. 

 

I wouldn't rush to assume anything at this point, though. They seem to be aiming for an Asian/anime feel, but that's only a theory, and it could be wrong.

 

So having inspiration directly from a Japanese myth wouldn't be too far afield. We wouldn't be able to prove it unless they told us it was direct inspiration, but it is a possibility. 

[Anapouri]

Also at the beginning of the first video, they have the villagers sitting on top of poles in the water in meditative states, much like monks and warriors are depicted to do in stereotypically depicted asian culture references.

[Regitnui]

I wouldn't mind a bit of Buddhist/Asian influence this time around. It would make a nice change from the Polynesian last time.

[Sir Kohran]

 

 

The story also draws on Cain and Abel from Christian mythology; two brothers, one was jealous of the other and committed a grevious sin to gain equality.

That's an Old Testament story and so is Jewish.

Sorry, I was under the impression that the story was in the Bible, Pentateuch and the Qur'an, seeing as Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all branches off the same tree.

 

I might question that but this isn't the place for such a debate. All I'll say is that Cain and Abel appeared first in Judaism's texts, and they aren't Christian because the only exclusively Christian material in the Bible is the New Testament.

 

 

 

It would make a nice change from the Polynesian last time. 

 

We haven't had anything Polynesian-like in over ten years.

[Iblis]

 

I might question that but this isn't the place for such a debate. All I'll say is that Cain and Abel appeared first in Judaism's texts, and they aren't Christian because the only exclusively Christian material in the Bible is the New Testament.

 

 

So why did you bring it up?

 

 

 

It would make a nice change from the Polynesian last time. 

 

We haven't had anything Polynesian-like in over ten years.

 

 

Fair point.

 

Regardless I hope they make there own story and we don't get too many retellings.

[Regitnui]

 

 

 

 

The story also draws on Cain and Abel from Christian mythology; two brothers, one was jealous of the other and committed a grevious sin to gain equality.

That's an Old Testament story and so is Jewish.

Sorry, I was under the impression that the story was in the Bible, Pentateuch and the Qur'an, seeing as Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all branches off the same tree.

I might question that but this isn't the place for such a debate. All I'll say is that Cain and Abel appeared first in Judaism's texts, and they aren't Christian because the only exclusively Christian material in the Bible is the New Testament.

Stop splitting hairs then. It is a Jewish story, as well as Christian and Muslim story. All three religions worship the same God, you know. Three branches off the same tree, as I said.

 

 

 

It would make a nice change from the Polynesian last time.

We haven't had anything Polynesian-like in over ten years.

The first three years of G1 had a lot of Polynesian influence. If the first three years of G2 have an Asian/Buddhist influence, it would be a nice change from the last time we did "Toa on Tropical Island hunting masks to defeat Makuta". Of course we drifted away from that later on, but this is the equivalent of '01 to '03, and that's what I'm comparing it to.

[Sir Kohran]

 

I might question that but this isn't the place for such a debate. All I'll say is that Cain and Abel appeared first in Judaism's texts, and they aren't Christian because the only exclusively Christian material in the Bible is the New Testament.

So why did you bring it up?

 

I brought it up just to point out that the story is primarily Jewish. What I don't want is to get into a debate about the relationship between Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

 

Stop splitting hairs then. It is a Jewish story, as well as Christian and Muslim story.

 

Your first post only identified it as Christian, and I just wanted to make a small correction (or addition).

 

The first three years of G1 had a lot of Polynesian influence. If the first three years of G2 have an Asian/Buddhist influence, it would be a nice change from the last time we did "Toa on Tropical Island hunting masks to defeat Makuta". Of course we drifted away from that later on, but this is the equivalent of '01 to '03, and that's what I'm comparing it to.

 

Well, if the current Bionicle's intention is to recall 01-03, wouldn't it make sense to use the same cultural influence, especially seeing how long it's been since it last appeared?

Edited February 18, 2015 by Sir Kohran

[Regitnui]

 

Stop splitting hairs then. It is a Jewish story, as well as Christian and Muslim story.

Your first post only identified it as Christian, and I just wanted to make a small correction (or addition).

The first three years of G1 had a lot of Polynesian influence. If the first three years of G2 have an Asian/Buddhist influence, it would be a nice change from the last time we did "Toa on Tropical Island hunting masks to defeat Makuta". Of course we drifted away from that later on, but this is the equivalent of '01 to '03, and that's what I'm comparing it to.

Well, if the current Bionicle's intention is to recall 01-03, wouldn't it make sense to use the same cultural influence, especially seeing how long it's been since it last appeared?

Hairs. Splitting. It's not that important, being common mythology.

 

As for the part of your post that's on topic, no. It's a reboot, so things can and should change. We aren't retreading the same ground, rather using the same atarting point. A change of influence is desirable, if not recommended.