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noble vahi?


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so the vahi was made of the legendary disks into a legendary mask. but could the ordinary disks be fused to make great, noble, or matoran masks of time? am I the only one who noticed this?

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In theory, I suppose you could make a powerless Vahi for a Matoran to wear. In fact, it's already been done in the real world : http://www.bzpower.com/board/topic/17169-solid-bronze-mask-of-time-human-scale/

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Even though the Great Disks were listed to have specific powers (Freezing, Reconstitutes at Random, etc.), it's most likely that that particular combination only results in a Disk of Time if the composite disks are level 9.  Anything less would either create a different power or it results in the mask breaking.  As we saw a large pile of failed Vahi in Legends of Metru Nui, those may have been a result of Vakama trying to game the system by making a normal level Vahi.

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Not so much, more than likely it would remain the same. In the case a Turaga could or has actually tried to use the Vahi. Being a legendary Mask and all and the forms of Noble and Great being incapable of holding the immense power. So in the Case of becoming a Turaga it is safe to say that either the Mask wont change or simply fall off or be replaced by an alternate version, likely whatever the Toa's Normal mask was / is.

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Yes, but that would imply if that matoran ever became a toa, they would have a Great mask of time, so thats out of the Question

I wonder if you could carve a Vahi shape out of other Kanoka? Like if the Matoran became a Toa, it would take the form of the actual mask. It has been shown that Kanohi can be different shapes than their actual form, such as Norik's Pehkui, Iruni's Kualsi if you follow the headcanon that the Volitak's true form resembles Nidhiki's mutated face.

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It said in BioSector01 that it is impossible to create a Great, Noble, or Matoran version of the mask. But if there was a great mask of the Vahi, my guess would be that it will only have a certain amount of time and it can only but used once like the Mask of Elemental Energy.

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Yes, but that would imply if that matoran ever became a toa, they would have a Great mask of time, so thats out of the Question

I wonder if you could carve a Vahi shape out of other Kanoka? Like if the Matoran became a Toa, it would take the form of the actual mask. It has been shown that Kanohi can be different shapes than their actual form, such as Norik's Pehkui, Iruni's Kualsi if you follow the headcanon that the Volitak's true form resembles Nidhiki's mutated face.

 

You could carve a Vahi-shaped Matoran mask, yeah. but it wouldn't turn into a mask of Time if the Matoran became a Toa. It's impossible for multiples of the same Legendary Kanohi to exist simultaneously, and as SPIRIT mentioned, it is also impossible for a Mask of Time to exist which is not Legendary.

The reason for this is a basic difference between how Great masks function and how Legendary masks function -- Great masks act as batteries for various powers, whereas Legendary masks act as conduits for fundamental forces of the universe itself.

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Yes, but that would imply if that matoran ever became a toa, they would have a Great mask of time, so thats out of the Question

I wonder if you could carve a Vahi shape out of other Kanoka? Like if the Matoran became a Toa, it would take the form of the actual mask. It has been shown that Kanohi can be different shapes than their actual form, such as Norik's Pehkui, Iruni's Kualsi if you follow the headcanon that the Volitak's true form resembles Nidhiki's mutated face.

 

You could carve a Vahi-shaped Matoran mask, yeah. but it wouldn't turn into a mask of Time if the Matoran became a Toa. It's impossible for multiples of the same Legendary Kanohi to exist simultaneously, and as SPIRIT mentioned, it is also impossible for a Mask of Time to exist which is not Legendary.

The reason for this is a basic difference between how Great masks function and how Legendary masks function -- Great masks act as batteries for various powers, whereas Legendary masks act as conduits for fundamental forces of the universe itself.

 

I meant what if you carved, for example, a Kakama into the shape of a Vahi? Would that be possible?

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Possible? It's not just possible, it's already happened!!

 

:P

 

kidding aside, it's definitely possible -- like you mentioned, the Toa Hagah had masks in shapes that were not standard for the powers -- heck, even Nuju had a modified mask as a Toa. But aside from practical alterations like Nuju's eyepiece or variations with ceremonial significance as in the case of the Hagah, I imagine most mask-makers would frown upon such practices, as it would just be confusing (and potentially dangerous: suppose an angry rahi is rampaging through the district and the local Toa needs a Pakari to subdue it, so she grabs what appears to be a Mask of Strength, only to discover that it is actually a Mask of Sensory Aptitude. Consistency in shape is important!)

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The mask cannot be forged in that shape for matoran as it is a legendary shape that can only be known by mask makers, and plus I'm not even a fan of masks that look different than they actually are. Example:Kanohi Suletu looking like a hau.

Edited by bonesiii
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Nope, The According to Biosector01 The Legendary masks cannot have a Noble, or Great form, for they wouldn't have the Capacity to hold such power.

 

And the Vahi is a Legendary mask

Ah but it was made from legendary disks, so If not a mask of time what would a fusions of six great disks make?

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The mask cannot be forged in that shape for matoran as it is a legendary shape

It isn't the shape that makes it legendary, it's the power of the protodermis it's made out of. Yes, masks of Matoran level, Noble level, and Great level can be molded in Vahi shape (what exactly prevents it? Pour the protodermis into a mold of that shape, and it'll form that shape, obviously!) -- it just wouldn't have the Vahi power. Remember, the shapes are labels. They normally go with the right power since that's how labels are normally supposed to work, but it's possible to "mislabel" something. :)

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The mask cannot be forged in that shape for matoran as it is a legendary shape

It isn't the shape that makes it legendary, it's the power of the protodermis it's made out of. Yes, masks of Matoran level, Noble level, and Great level can be molded in Vahi shape (what exactly prevents it? Pour the protodermis into a mold of that shape, and it'll form that shape, obviously!) -- it just wouldn't have the Vahi power. Remember, the shapes are labels. They normally go with the right power since that's how labels are normally supposed to work, but it's possible to "mislabel" something. :)
This topic has taken a weird turn...

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He actually did make an attempt at the Vahi early in the movie, that didn't have Vahi power, come to think of it. It had the same Vahi shape.

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He actually did make an attempt at the Vahi early in the movie, that didn't have Vahi power, come to think of it. It had the same Vahi shape.

 

Didn't it break from the welding tool, though? That could mean a couple of things, in my opinion; first, that the Vahi's shape is one of a kind for that mask, and there is a 'deus ex machina'-esque thing that makes sure every copy of the mask that isn't the Vahi is destroyed. Second, it could mean that Vakama was just being a klutz :P

 

If the second theory is correct, does that mean that Vakama invented the shape of the Vahi? Or did Dume-akuta give him certain blueprints?

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He actually did make an attempt at the Vahi early in the movie, that didn't have Vahi power, come to think of it. It had the same Vahi shape.

Didn't it break from the welding tool, though? That could mean a couple of things, in my opinion; first, that the Vahi's shape is one of a kind for that mask, and there is a 'deus ex machina'-esque thing that makes sure every copy of the mask that isn't the Vahi is destroyed. Second, it could mean that Vakama was just being a klutz :P

 

If the second theory is correct, does that mean that Vakama invented the shape of the Vahi? Or did Dume-akuta give him certain blueprints?

Okay I remember that, the other disks wouldn't fuse correctly so they broke. And as for the shape it could have looked like anything, it was his design...

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The mask cannot be forged in that shape for matoran as it is a legendary shape that can only be known by mask makers, and plus I'm not even a fan of masks that look different than they actually are. Example:Kanohi Suletu looking like a hau.

 

I also didn't like masks not having a 'consistent' shape, but other than that opinion you are entirely unsupported in your (what appears to be) fallacious statement.

Whether you mentioning your opinion was meant to be some indication that your statement that is can't be shaped that was actually an opinion is a bit of a jump in logic but it's easiest line for an apologist to take. Or you could try and provide some reasoning for your arbitrary statements if you can't be bothered to present them as an opinion.

 

 

 

He actually did make an attempt at the Vahi early in the movie, that didn't have Vahi power, come to think of it. It had the same Vahi shape.

 

Didn't it break from the welding tool, though? That could mean a couple of things, in my opinion; first, that the Vahi's shape is one of a kind for that mask, and there is a 'deus ex machina'-esque thing that makes sure every copy of the mask that isn't the Vahi is destroyed. Second, it could mean that Vakama was just being a klutz  :P

 

 

I suspect i'm taking the wrong thing out of this, but never the less; I would assume that the can't-be-'Vahi-shaped'-unless-it-is-THE-Vahi is unnecessarily complicated & a certain Razor says hi ;)

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It probably broke from an inferior batch of protodermis. [Correction: I was curious where I got that idea, so I checked the book version. Just from a skim-through, I didn't see a mask breaking scene included; Vakama inspects a disk of unstated shape and rejects it, though. The inferior batch idea came from Makuta (Dume), who suggested it as the reason for the delay, but Vakama objects, saying he uses the finest protodermis available. So, probably just nerves due to failing to make a mask of time was making him mess up the shapes, and maybe break one if the movie itself does have that scene (which I seem to recall. It's on Netflix, but outta time to check.]

 

Either way, it definitely didn't have Vahi power, and definitely molds of that shape can be used to make masks of that shape regardless of power. There's no magical "you can't have that shape" effect in the canon.

 

However, character transformations and the putting-on of new masks for an individual do trigger a shape-transformation of masks. So it's also possible various circumstances would change its shape to represent its power. It's just not a rule that the shape can't ever exist for another power.

Edited by bonesiii
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Leave it to Bonesiii to give a logical answer that just somehow makes sense.

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It probably broke from an inferior batch of protodermis. 

Nitpick here, but the movie made it look like it broke because the maskmaker applied too much force with his maskmaking tool. 

Your nitpick is warranted; I suspected something was off there. See edit to previous post.

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