The mystery of Artakha

[Toa Komali]

Ok this is a bit of a bugbear for me. We never have seen the master of creation (by that I mean the mask not the MU) all we know is he is taller than a Toa/Glatorian. The only other clue we got was from the fact that Karzahni Is most likly built like him. Well Karzahni as he was before he went insane and rebuilt himself.

 

I've had little luck finding a draw interpretation of Artakha and I'll be having him in my Comic collab. Thanks to gen 2 part of my problem is taken care of though. The Mask of Creation design is most likly what it looked like in both gens. But beyond that what does Artakha look like.

 

I'm thinking a mix of Ekimu and a Glatorian. Also with the grey green armor. 

 

Anyone got a better take?

[Archon~]

The two masks look different, he's green gray, around 10ft tall and has a warhammer. He wears the mask of creation, and it as well as his overall design is meant to symbolize a bunch of MU cultures and species.

[Mr. Cup of Fail]

The mask of creation I think is something close of looking like the Gen 2 but still at least a little different. Also with the 10ft tall thing, what would his size be in he was a set?

[ALVIS]

The mask of creation I think is something close of looking like the Gen 2 but still at least a little different. Also with the 10ft tall thing, what would his size be in he was a set?

 

I'd say probably titan height -- think Brutaka.

[Takametru007]

funny how both he and ekimu have hammers as weapons- and similar masks. I don't know where the info comes from that he's green gray though- even before ekimu, I imagined him with mostly gold.

[Jacks]

funny how both he and ekimu have hammers as weapons- and similar masks. I don't know where the info comes from that he's green gray though- even before ekimu, I imagined him with mostly gold.

He's definitely green and grey, not gold. He got a fairly detailed description when he appeared in one of the serials in late 2008.

[Lyichir]

 

funny how both he and ekimu have hammers as weapons- and similar masks. I don't know where the info comes from that he's green gray though- even before ekimu, I imagined him with mostly gold.

He's definitely green and grey, not gold. He got a fairly detailed description when he appeared in one of the serials in late 2008.

 

Technically speaking, Karzahni was definitely gold and black... and then when he appeared in a set in 2007 he was suddenly green and silver. That's one reason I don't tend to consider descriptions of unportrayed characters to be the be-all and end-all of the characters, since Lego themselves didn't let descriptions like that stifle them when it came time to debut a previously undepicted character.

[Mr. Cup of Fail]

But Lyichir didn't Karzahni rebuild himself to have a green color said in the Abilities and Traits on Biosector.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

funny how both he and ekimu have hammers as weapons- and similar masks. I don't know where the info comes from that he's green gray though- even before ekimu, I imagined him with mostly gold.

It's from the story serials Dwellers In Darkness and Reign of Shadows. In those he is described as being a sort of copper green/military green-grey/green tan sort of color.

 

I actually drew a concept drawing of his face a while ago. It's not perfect nor complete, but I still like it. Mask of Creation. I have the green there but some gold-copper coloring to it to show that maybe it wasn't always that color and tarnished over time.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Iaredios

[Jacks]

 

 

funny how both he and ekimu have hammers as weapons- and similar masks. I don't know where the info comes from that he's green gray though- even before ekimu, I imagined him with mostly gold.

He's definitely green and grey, not gold. He got a fairly detailed description when he appeared in one of the serials in late 2008.

 

Technically speaking, Karzahni was definitely gold and black... and then when he appeared in a set in 2007 he was suddenly green and silver. That's one reason I don't tend to consider descriptions of unportrayed characters to be the be-all and end-all of the characters, since Lego themselves didn't let descriptions like that stifle them when it came time to debut a previously undepicted character.

 

True, but then again Artahka was never transformed, as far as we know.

 

 

I actually drew a concept drawing of his face a while ago. It's not perfect nor complete, but I still like it. Mask of Creation. I have the green there but some gold-copper coloring to it to show that maybe it wasn't always that color and rusted over time.

I am in love with the idea of Tarnished Artahka.

[Lyichir]

But Lyichir didn't Karzahni rebuild himself to have a green color said in the Abilities and Traits on Biosector.

Yes, Karzahni did rebuild himself—specifically because he was planned to appear in a set that did not resemble that original depiction. Set design in the original Bionicle always decided the course of the story. As such, I've always found it stifling to limit your vision of a character (especially for MOCs and artwork) based solely on what the story explicitly stated, because Lego never took such pains—when their idea of a character contrasted with their actual depiction, the latter was what was going to change. This applied doubly for MOCs considering that many character descriptions for unreleased characters were practically unMOCable, thanks to Greg's penchant for assigning ridiculous visual traits to characters without regard to whether they'd be visually compatible with anything else in the established universe.

[Votuko]

I would have liked to see the G1 Mask of Creation. Its description of being the most ornate mask ever, with writing of every MU culture etc., make it sound like it would look amazing if they had ever drawn it.

 

But I'm sure a set version of it would have been simplified to match the complexity of other masks, so would have been disappointing and would not have done the description justice. The same for Artakha himself.

 

(Interestingly, someone on another thread linked some Metru Nui concept art which included symbols similar to the markings on the G2 Mask of Creation. So if Greg randomly decided to canonise the appearance of the G1 mask as being the same as the G2 mask, it would fit the previous description somewhat.)

[Lyichir]

But I'm sure a set version of it would have been simplified to match the complexity of other masks, so would have been disappointing and would not have done the description justice. The same for Artakha himself.

That's just an example of what I described above—Greg's terrible penchant for ridiculously over-the-top descriptions. The fault here is with that, not with the fact that actual set designs have to worry about silly things like "what's actually physically possible" or "actually being made of Lego" or "looking consistent with other Bionicle sets instead of something from an overwrought fantasy franchise".

[Votuko]

 

But I'm sure a set version of it would have been simplified to match the complexity of other masks, so would have been disappointing and would not have done the description justice. The same for Artakha himself.

That's just an example of what I described above—Greg's terrible penchant for ridiculously over-the-top descriptions. The fault here is with that, not with the fact that actual set designs have to worry about silly things like "what's actually physically possible" or "actually being made of Lego" or "looking consistent with other Bionicle sets instead of something from an overwrought fantasy franchise".

True - that reminds me of the Avohkah.

I can imagine the design team going: "Hmm, today's LEGO set has to look like a living bolt of lightning... Are we allowed to mold some new parts for this?"

 

But still, they could have at least shown a somewhat-major character like Artakha in comic form, as his general build could be simple and need not be shown in set-level detail. Only the mask would have to exceed usual LEGO complexity rules, but surely that is fine if they aren't making a physical version of it? (They drew the Olisi?)

Edited March 10, 2015 by Xelphene

[Lyichir]

 

 

But I'm sure a set version of it would have been simplified to match the complexity of other masks, so would have been disappointing and would not have done the description justice. The same for Artakha himself.

That's just an example of what I described above—Greg's terrible penchant for ridiculously over-the-top descriptions. The fault here is with that, not with the fact that actual set designs have to worry about silly things like "what's actually physically possible" or "actually being made of Lego" or "looking consistent with other Bionicle sets instead of something from an overwrought fantasy franchise".

 

True - that reminds me of the Avohkah.

I can imagine the design team going: "Hmm, today's LEGO set has to look like a living bolt of lightning... Are we allowed to mold some new parts for this?"

 

But still, they could have at least shown a somewhat-major character like Artakha in comic form, as his general build could be simple and need not be shown in set-level detail. Only the mask would have to exceed usual LEGO complexity rules, but surely that is fine if they aren't making a physical version of it? (They drew the Olisi?)

 

Oh, sure, with artwork you have a greater chance of approximating that kind of description. But good luck getting a comic artist to do that kind of description "justice", either. The description of Artakha's mask was several orders of magnitude more ridiculous than "mask made of parts of other masks." And don't forget that the artwork of Karzahni was STILL criticized for going with using a different (arguably more interesting) color scheme than the black and gold described in the book.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Lyichir

[bonesiii]

Since the first post here incorrectly says one detail as "all" we know about him, it might help to quote BS01's description, which gives a bit more detail (most of it posted above, but for the record, and since some of the details are often confused; I find I have to check this everytime it comes up to make sure I'm remembering right):

 

Artakha is a physically imposing figure, standing at roughly ten feet tall, and clad in gray-green armor that is decorated in ancient symbols.

 

Then, since some of this is often confused with the mask, and now we have a slightly different G2 interpretation of the mask to add to the confusion, I usually check the mask description too; this quote from the top of its G1 page being the best for that:

 

The metallic protodermis from which it was forged was arranged in intricate patterns and designs, each reflecting one of the many cultures that flourished in the universe. The eye slits were angular and pointed, giving him an air of both wisdom and a vague sense of menace.

Note that since the color gold isn't mentioned, and Artakha's armor is gray-green, it's generally assumed the G1 Mask of Creation was (at least originally) intended to be silver in color, and the G2's designs, while ornate, don't match the "many cultures" concept from the original. The G1 canon could go two routes; "almost retconning" the apparent meaning of this and saying it "really meant" the G2 design, or just saying the G2 design is for an alternate universe. I wouldn't assume the latter, since the Vahi has been hinted at in its apparently original shape for G2. (Though I suspect when it's revealed in plastic, it may be a revamp.)

[Lyichir]

I wouldn't assume the latter, since the Vahi has been hinted at in its apparently original shape for G2. (Though I suspect when it's revealed in plastic, it may be a revamp.)

There is zero doubt that the Vahi for G2 will be a revamp because it will have to be redesigned to attach to the new heads. Beyond that the classic Vahi mold is ancient (one of the first masks designed for Bionicle), terrible (designed to use a soft plastic formulation that's far inferior to the one used for current masks), and probably long gone (hasn't been used since 2004). Rereleasing the original one would be a cruel prank indeed.

 

The rest of your post is helpful to have here for future discussion but just reinforces my belief that Greg's description of the Mask of Creation was terrible, describing it in a way that would be impossible to produce in real life and visually incompatible with the entire Bionicle product line.

[Ballom Nom Nom]

That's just an example of what I described above—Greg's terrible penchant for ridiculously over-the-top descriptions. The fault here is with that, not with the fact that actual set designs have to worry about silly things like "what's actually physically possible" or "actually being made of Lego" or "looking consistent with other Bionicle sets instead of something from an overwrought fantasy franchise".

Greg's inability to differentiate Bionicle from an overwrought fantasy franchise was essentially the single largest issue in the story, I'd say, and Artakha's description is a perfect example. Oh yes, intricate patterns and designs from every culture. That's definitely something that an observer could easily discern in a second or so of observing. And let's not even start on how anyone would actually depict such a monstrosity in visual form. It's painfully obvious that this was an author handwaving an awful description for something that couldn't exist. Artakha might as well have worn a piece of the geometry of R'lyeh that appears concave from some angles and convex from others.

 

~B~

Edited March 10, 2015 by Ballom

[Iblis]

Artakha might as well have worn a piece of the geometry of R'lyeh that appears concave from some angles and convex from others.

 

Arguably even that is being favourable, because one can at least draw something that appears non-euclidean, things that look impossible, and generally if you 'ripped off' M. C. Escher & threw in some aesthetics like tentacles & other common motifs, one could at least argue that's the most coherent image the viewer/drawer could understand;

If you try and apply the same literally-cannot-grasp-it's-image to G1's MoC it seems odd that they (narrator or characters) relatively speaking, neglected to dwell on it any longer, & frankly it seems a poor way to depict  .... & then insist that it wasn't monstrous ... oh and wait;

I just couldn't upvote your post enough, & rambled instead. >,>"

[Toa Komali]

Since the first post here incorrectly says one detail as "all" we know about him, it might help to quote BS01's description, which gives a bit more detail (most of it posted above, but for the record, and since some of the details are often confused; I find I have to check this everytime it comes up to make sure I'm remembering right):

 

Artakha is a physically imposing figure, standing at roughly ten feet tall, and clad in gray-green armor that is decorated in ancient symbols.

 

Then, since some of this is often confused with the mask, and now we have a slightly different G2 interpretation of the mask to add to the confusion

Yeah I could have worded that better. So I would take from this he's about as big as Tuma since he's of a imposing build.

 

As for the mask if it's ok to use I do indeed like Laredios' take on the mask.

 

[Votuko]

Note that since the color gold isn't mentioned, and Artakha's armor is gray-green, it's generally assumed the G1 Mask of Creation was (at least originally) intended to be silver in color, and the G2's designs, while ornate, don't match the "many cultures" concept from the original. The G1 canon could go two routes; "almost retconning" the apparent meaning of this and saying it "really meant" the G2 design, or just saying the G2 design is for an alternate universe. I wouldn't assume the latter, since the Vahi has been hinted at in its apparently original shape for G2. (Though I suspect when it's revealed in plastic, it may be a revamp.)

Wow, I had been imagining the G1 Mask of Creation to be gold this entire time, without realising that I was making an assumption.

I guess I subconsciously thought that all legendary masks are gold in their "basic" form seeing as both the Vahi (before rusting) and the Ignika (when the MU is healthy) are gold.

(Although I'm not sure that Artakha's armour has any reason to match his mask colour when it is possible [likely?] that he got the armour before being granted the Mask of Creation. And maybe it would look better as a set but, as discussed already, Greg didn't seem to have a set version in mind when describing him.)

 

Just a thought regarding the G2 mask not showing the designs of many cultures:

Greg could say that the designs of other cultures referred to were very intricate, so from far away only large-scale patterns were visible and the multicultural designs within the patterns averaged out to looking flat. (Surely the mask that embodies Creation can [should?] have designs within designs? )

On the resolution level of a physical mask the same averaging-out would happen, leaving only the highest-level patterns visible on the G2 mask.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Xelphene

[bonesiii]

the Vahi for G2 will be a revamp because it will have to be redesigned to attach to the new heads

Talking about the in-story mask shape, not the plastic connection.

[Lyichir]

 

the Vahi for G2 will be a revamp because it will have to be redesigned to attach to the new heads

Talking about the in-story mask shape, not the plastic connection.

 

In-story it will match the sets, like all set-based media strives to. Currently they're using the classic Vahi shape in easter eggs, but that's the point—it wouldn't be a very good easter egg if it alluded to a mask zero fans had actually seen (not to mention the fact that the new Vahi might not have a finalized design yet).

 

When the Vahi does appear in G2, it probably will resemble the classic one—but then, so do all the Toa—that's the POINT of a revamp.

 

Anyway, I was only taking issue with that one part of the statement—that the Vahi had been alluded to in it's original shape, and that it "might" appear in a different form in the plastic. But those "allusions" are irrelevant to the canon (apart from subtly hinting the known fact that the Mask of Time will return), and when it does finally appear for real, there's no chance that it won't look different.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

 

Since the first post here incorrectly says one detail as "all" we know about him, it might help to quote BS01's description, which gives a bit more detail (most of it posted above, but for the record, and since some of the details are often confused; I find I have to check this everytime it comes up to make sure I'm remembering right):

 

Artakha is a physically imposing figure, standing at roughly ten feet tall, and clad in gray-green armor that is decorated in ancient symbols.

 

Then, since some of this is often confused with the mask, and now we have a slightly different G2 interpretation of the mask to add to the confusion

Yeah I could have worded that better. So I would take from this he's about as big as Tuma since he's of a imposing build.

 

As for the mask if it's ok to use I do indeed like Laredios' take on the mask.

 

 

(Your wording is weird) If you or anyone else would like to use it or finish it, y'all can go right on ahead just so long as credit is given.

 

^{And good sir, as an FYI, please do hover your mouse cursor over the words Name Info in my signature. Thanks.} 

[bonesiii]

Lychir, there's no reason to "take issue" with saying we haven't yet seen it in plastic for G2 so don't know for sure if its shape will be close to classic or revamped. Please drop it. We'll see what it looks like when it's revealed.

[Lyichir]

Lychir, there's no reason to "take issue" with saying we haven't yet seen it in plastic for G2 so don't know for sure if its shape will be close to classic or revamped. Please drop it. We'll see what it looks like when it's revealed.

I'm sorry, what? You may be staff, but that does not give you the right to force the last word. I have a lot of respect for you, so I'd appreciate if you didn't prove all your critics right by abusing your position.

 

My point was that it will be "revamped" either way, regardless of exactly how much it looks like the classic mask. It seems you thought the same thing; the only real difference in our opinions was a misunderstanding of terminology (where you viewed "revamp" as a broad scale of possible differences rather than a literal term for whatever the inevitable redesign turned out to be like). And a simple misunderstanding like that resolves itself, if you don't try to shut it down before it works itself out...

[fishers64]

Uh, so far the animation Toa don't look exactly like the set Toa, so I don't see why the animation Vahi couldn't be different from the "new" plastic Vahi. (Therefore retaining its classic shape in-story?)

 

Set-wise, I think it could go either way. They could revamp it (and there is precedent, see: Toa's masks), but the classic Vahi is a bit more obscure than the Toa's original masks, making the need for a revamp lower.  Plus it maintains design consistency with the animations. Hinting a certain shape and then revealing it to be that shape is more satisfying than just having random appearances of 14-year-old mask in the animations. (Why would they do that otherwise? Fuel the connection theories? Please. At the moment, it's more plausible that they have an in-story reason for the hint then they threw a G1 mask in there just for lulz.)

 

But asserting that a revamp is a relative certainty? Nah. Unless you want to believe TTV's tale about the Vahi covering the whole face, in which case it would have to be different from the original in-story. 

 

Point being, we don't know anything about this for sure yet. There's evidence that goes both directions.

 

* * *

As for the Mask of Creation/Artahka, I'm not sure why we have gotten off on this tangent anyway. For one thing, the G2 MoC does have runes on it. For another thing, odds are through the roof that the G2 MoC is entirely irrelevant to the G1 MoC anyway, so there's no need to yell at Greg for making an "impossible" description. There were already plenty of characters that weren't supposed to be plasticized in Greg's work. For a third thing, some of those "unplasticable" characters did get artwork depicting them *insert giant robot here* so making an artistic interpretation of it is not something I would oppose. I'm not sure where you get this idea from.

 

"If it can't be in plastic, it's not valid for this story" is a straight-up myth. Even G2 has unplasticable stuff. Without that stuff, you'd be hard-pressed to even have a story at all, so...

 

* * *
Sorry if this post is a bit more pointed than it should be. 

[Lyichir]

Uh, so far the animation Toa don't look exactly like the set Toa, so I don't see why the animation Vahi couldn't be different from the "new" plastic Vahi. (Therefore retaining its classic shape in-story?)

 

Set-wise, I think it could go either way. They could revamp it (and there is precedent, see: Toa's masks), but the classic Vahi is a bit more obscure than the Toa's original masks, making the need for a revamp lower.  Plus it maintains design consistency with the animations. Hinting a certain shape and then revealing it to be that shape is more satisfying than just having random appearances of 14-year-old mask in the animations. (Why would they do that otherwise? Fuel the connection theories? Please. At the moment, it's more plausible that they have an in-story reason for the hint then they threw a G1 mask in there just for lulz.)

 

But asserting that a revamp is a relative certainty? Nah. Unless you want to believe TTV's tale about the Vahi covering the whole face, in which case it would have to be different from the original in-story. 

 

Point being, we don't know anything about this for sure yet. There's evidence that goes both directions.

 

* * *

As for the Mask of Creation/Artahka, I'm not sure why we have gotten off on this tangent anyway. For one thing, the G2 MoC does have runes on it. For another thing, odds are through the roof that the G2 MoC is entirely irrelevant to the G1 MoC anyway, so there's no need to yell at Greg for making an "impossible" description. There were already plenty of characters that weren't supposed to be plasticized in Greg's work. For a third thing, some of those "unplasticable" characters did get artwork depicting them *insert giant robot here* so making an artistic interpretation of it is not something I would oppose. I'm not sure where you get this idea from.

 

"If it can't be in plastic, it's not valid for this story" is a straight-up myth. Even G2 has unplasticable stuff. Without that stuff, you'd be hard-pressed to even have a story at all, so...

 

* * *

Sorry if this post is a bit more pointed than it should be.

AGAIN, the problem seems to be that no one understands what I mean by "revamp". The new Vahi is going to be a revamp, because there is zero chance that the old Vahi mold will be used. The new one needs to have new connection points, first and foremost—and seeing as that would necessitate redesigning the mold from scratch, why not go all the way and change up the look? Now, I'm not saying that it won't look anything like the classic Vahi. In fact, I EXPECT it to look like the classic Vahi. But it won't BE the classiv Vahi, both because it has to fit a differently-shaped face, and because it has to attach differently, and because the original Vahi design is long overdue for an update.

 

As for your thing about "unplasticable stuff"... I understand that not everything can be produced. But you would think a story based on a BUILDING TOY, with an emphasis on CREATIVITY, would try to at least consider whether a significant character would even be POSSIBLE to create in a physical form. It was bad enough when we had nebulous, unbuildable foes like the Morbuzahk—but when you give a significant character a description that is at odds with the look of every existing character, the practicalities of Lego building, and the logical limits of how intricate a design can BE before shattering suspension of disbelief, it's clear that you've lost sight of the purpose your writing is meant to serve.

[fishers64]

because there is zero chance that the old Vahi mold will be used. The new one needs to have new connection points, first and foremost—and seeing as that would necessitate redesigning the mold from scratch,

I agree with this. This is a fact.

 

why not go all the way and change up the look?

Because they teased the old look in the animations and want to make their work consistent with itself?

 

Now, I'm not saying that it won't look anything like the classic Vahi. In fact, I EXPECT it to look like the classic Vahi. But it won't BE the classiv Vahi, both because it has to fit a differently-shaped face, and because it has to attach differently,

Again, I agree with this. This is fact. I'm not arguing with you on this.

 

and because the original Vahi design is long overdue for an update.

I'm not sure about this. They thought the original Vahi design was timeless (haha bad pun) enough to put it in their animations. Why ditch a good design just to, ya know, ditch it?

 

Now I think what you were trying to get at was that the new mask connections are farther up on the head than the classic connections, meaning that they would either a) have to redesign the head mold so the attachment clips are lower, which would be very expensive, or b) change the Vahi's appearance in a significant way to allow the Vahi to clip. You are asserting that Lego would probably choose option b. I think that is what you mean by revamp, yes?

 

I would like to know where you got the idea that the Mask of Time was going to come in a set this round. I haven't seen any evidence for that so far.

 

I'm also not sure that the animated Vahi would resemble a set "revamped" Vahi. The animations have already shown a classic unchanged Vahi, and when and if the Vahi finally appears in said animations, it would behoove it to look like the Vahi that has appeared in the animations before. This is so the animations are consistent with themselves.

 

As for your thing about "unplasticable stuff"... I understand that not everything can be produced. But you would think a story based on a BUILDING TOY, with an emphasis on CREATIVITY, would try to at least consider whether a significant character would even be POSSIBLE to create in a physical form. It was bad enough when we had nebulous, unbuildable foes like the Morbuzahk—but when you give a significant character a description that is at odds with the look of every existing character, the practicalities of Lego building, and the logical limits of how intricate a design can BE before shattering suspension of disbelief, it's clear that you've lost sight of the purpose your writing is meant to serve.

Artahka, as a character, was meant to be somewhat of an enigma. I encourage you not to lose sight of that fact. Putting an enigmatic character in plastic form shatters all of his enigmatic qualities. He was never meant to be in plastic. 

 

He was never meant to be built. And after all the years of waiting to learn what he looked like or meet him in story, a bland set-fitting description would have been anticlimatic. His appearance had to be glorious and live up to the hype. Anything else would have lost sight of who Artahka was as a character. 

[Lyichir]

I wrote out an entire freaking post explaining the stupidity of your entire argument (such as the fact that we've been told explicitly that we'll get a new Vahi, and that we HAVEN'T seen the new story's Vahi canonically, or that the Vahi easter eggs resembling a new version of the mask would completely defeat the purpose of easter eggs, or the fact that Artakha's description is not enigmatic, it's explicit, and explicitly terrible to boot), and then my shoddy internet connection that I've been struggling with died and I restarted my computer forgetting that it would ERASE IT ALL.

So screw this debate. I'm sick of the mind-numbing ignorance in this fandom and I just can't be responsible for pointing out the obvious any more.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

That is a bit harsh there Lyichir, though I can understand your frustrations when going against a brick wall of opposing beliefs or thoughts. I am sorry to hear about the loss of your post as I would love to have read it. That being said, one cannot blame the fandom for one's poor internet or the power going out, or even getting a virus. It is just bad luck.
 
As Bionicle fans good or bad we need to come together as a community. Me I don't really know how I feel about the COncepts of the Vahi or what has been going on regarding Artakha. Now apparently he is like some sort of god or angel in the Matoran Universe. Has some Island named after him where the best builders go and seems to have the ability to make Nuva Great Konohi and the Golden Mata Masks. As for what he looks like... does it mater? I mean unless he appears in the story as more than a figment or idea I don't think it really does? Do I agree that the hype may be killed if a bland set surfaced? Sure I mean from what I am reading in this topic he is quite the majestic being. Has runes or transcripts all over his mask and armor? That could be epic to see in an image or in figure form. Maybe via stickers as I do not think printed piece would come with such detail.
 
This however does not mean he could not be made into a decent and well liked set. There is a phrase I've heard before, "You cannot please everyone all the time." and this is true. There will always be people on both sides of the fandom fence that will or wont like a design. It is human nature.

Lyichir if you do not want to contribute to the topic at hand that is perfectly alright. It is your choice. Feel free to come back if you want to add anything.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

I wrote out an entire freaking post explaining the stupidity of your entire argument (such as the fact that we've been told explicitly that we'll get a new Vahi, and that we HAVEN'T seen the new story's Vahi canonically, or that the Vahi easter eggs resembling a new version of the mask would completely defeat the purpose of easter eggs, or the fact that Artakha's description is not enigmatic, it's explicit, and explicitly terrible to boot), and then my shoddy internet connection that I've been struggling with died and I restarted my computer forgetting that it would ERASE IT ALL.

 

So screw this debate. I'm sick of the mind-numbing ignorance in this fandom and I just can't be responsible for pointing out the obvious any more.

Wow, its pretty tense in here. Hey man, if they wont believe you about the Vahi thing, then they just have to wait until it is molded, packaged and bought (I think the "mask of ultimate power is the vahi, but we'll have to wait and see). And I have had bad internet connections in the past, they are very annoying, so I feel thine frustrations.

 

The thing with Artakha's mask is up to opinion. Bionicle is a fusion of genres, so I am okay with their being a fusion of art as well. I actually disliked how the 2009 sets looked almost exactly like the preceding sets, there should have been new torso molds and everything to show that they are different races.

[fishers64]

I wrote out an entire freaking post explaining the stupidity of your entire argument (such as the fact that we've been told explicitly that we'll get a new Vahi, and that we HAVEN'T seen the new story's Vahi canonically, or that the Vahi easter eggs resembling a new version of the mask would completely defeat the purpose of easter eggs, or the fact that Artakha's description is not enigmatic, it's explicit, and explicitly terrible to boot), and then my shoddy internet connection that I've been struggling with died and I restarted my computer forgetting that it would ERASE IT ALL.

 

So screw this debate. I'm sick of the mind-numbing ignorance in this fandom and I just can't be responsible for pointing out the obvious any more.

I was looking forward to reading your thoughts. Sorry to hear that. 

[bonesiii]

 

Lychir, there's no reason to "take issue" with saying we haven't yet seen it in plastic for G2 so don't know for sure if its shape will be close to classic or revamped. Please drop it. We'll see what it looks like when it's revealed.

I'm sorry, what? You may be staff, but that does not give you the right to force the last word. I have a lot of respect for you, so I'd appreciate if you didn't prove all your critics right by abusing your position.

 

My point was that it will be "revamped" either way, regardless of exactly how much it looks like the classic mask. It seems you thought the same thing; the only real difference in our opinions was a misunderstanding of terminology (where you viewed "revamp" as a broad scale of possible differences rather than a literal term for whatever the inevitable redesign turned out to be like). And a simple misunderstanding like that resolves itself, if you don't try to shut it down before it works itself out...

I was trying to be a bit subtle, but apparently you need the direct reminders of two things -- first, that we have rules about civil discussion; you could simply have politely made the same point, without sounding like I had done something "objectionable" by not being dogmatic about a position on what the future will bring (yeesh -- relax, man ).

 

Second, that this is S&T, and my post that should have made it obvious I was speaking story-wise, not about set-connections. That's okay, though. Just, seriously, relax. Bionicle is made for enjoyment -- if you're getting worked up enough about some part of it that you start throwing around wild accusations of "abuse" just for a subtle reminder of the rules and have to get as upset as you showed in your latest posts, it's probably a big clue you should rethink your priorities.

 

Edit:

 

Okay, I had only skimmed that latest post and missed that you actually did flame:

 

I wrote out an entire freaking post explaining the stupidity of your entire argument

Now we're past subtle -- this is an official warning. I don't mind some off-topic meandering that's loosely related, even talking about the set of the G2 Vahi in a topic about Artakha's G1 story (). But flaming while you're doing it is against the rules.

 

Take a deep breath. Maybe a bit of a break. Calm yourself. It's a toy (as you reminded us) -- don't lose sight of what that means (or the enjoyment factors of the story either).

 

I'd like to go through some of your logic, but I really don't have time anymore, at least not for something so nearly-off-topic. Suffice to say, it seems like on some points you're trying to argue something that nobody disagreed with (like I would have assumed it goes without saying that the set Vahi will have the new connection point and face matching -- so why even bring it up?).

Edited March 11, 2015 by bonesiii

[Toa Komali]

 

 

Lychir, there's no reason to "take issue" with saying we haven't yet seen it in plastic for G2 so don't know for sure if its shape will be close to classic or revamped. Please drop it. We'll see what it looks like when it's revealed.

I'm sorry, what? You may be staff, but that does not give you the right to force the last word. I have a lot of respect for you, so I'd appreciate if you didn't prove all your critics right by abusing your position.

 

My point was that it will be "revamped" either way, regardless of exactly how much it looks like the classic mask. It seems you thought the same thing; the only real difference in our opinions was a misunderstanding of terminology (where you viewed "revamp" as a broad scale of possible differences rather than a literal term for whatever the inevitable redesign turned out to be like). And a simple misunderstanding like that resolves itself, if you don't try to shut it down before it works itself out...

I was trying to be a bit subtle, but apparently you need the direct reminders of two things -- first, that we have rules about civil discussion; you could simply have politely made the same point, without sounding like I had done something "objectionable" by not being dogmatic about a position on what the future will bring (yeesh -- relax, man ).

 

Second, that this is S&T, and my post that should have made it obvious I was speaking story-wise, not about set-connections. That's okay, though. Just, seriously, relax. Bionicle is made for enjoyment -- if you're getting worked up enough about some part of it that you start throwing around wild accusations of "abuse" just for a subtle reminder of the rules and have to get as upset as you showed in your latest posts, it's probably a big clue you should rethink your priorities.

 

Edit:

 

Okay, I had only skimmed that latest post and missed that you actually did flame:

 

I wrote out an entire freaking post explaining the stupidity of your entire argument

Now we're past subtle -- this is an official warning. I don't mind some off-topic meandering that's loosely related, even talking about the set of the G2 Vahi in a topic about Artakha's G1 story ( ). But flaming while you're doing it is against the rules.

 

Take a deep breath. Maybe a bit of a break. Calm yourself. It's a toy (as you reminded us) -- don't lose sight of what that means (or the enjoyment factors of the story either).

 

I'd like to go through some of your logic, but I really don't have time anymore, at least not for something so nearly-off-topic. Suffice to say, it seems like on some points you're trying to argue something that nobody disagreed with (like I would have assumed it goes without saying that the set Vahi will have the new connection point and face matching -- so why even bring it up?).

 

What have I done?

 

Sorry this got so bad. I for one try to keep a open mind on these things. Bones has been nothing if not a good friend to me since I started posting. So this topic has gone haywire over nothing.

 

Sorry Bones and everyone for activating a Time bomb. 

 

Back on topic. Green-grey is a odd color scheme to chose for Artakha. But I just realized it maybe symbolic. Artakha has had his land attacked and only asked for it to be uncharted after (with a few deaths hear and there but still) we see later on that he's kept in contact with the outside. Seen what Teridax has wrought and still has hope.

 

He alone is willing to fight to save the MU from a contingency plan of activate self destruct, Is willing to fight enemy and friend to save it. His color with the fact that we know the Vahi rusted makes it seem like he and the mask corroded. But he didn't he Tarnished copper has a odd thing to it when it oxidizes. It gets stronger not weaker. Artakha is a tarnished hero not a rusted relic. He stands firm no matter the cause. 

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Back on topic. Green-grey is a odd color scheme to chose for Artakha. But I just realized it maybe symbolic. Artakha has had his land attacked and only asked for it to be uncharted after (with a few deaths hear and there but still) we see later on that he's kept in contact with the outside. Seen what Teridax has wrought and still has hope.

 

He alone is willing to fight to save the MU from a contingency plan of activate self destruct, Is willing to fight enemy and friend to save it. His color with the fact that we know the Vahi rusted makes it seem like he and the mask corroded. But he didn't he Tarnished copper has a odd thing to it when it oxidizes. It gets stronger not weaker. Artakha is a tarnished hero not a rusted relic. He stands firm no matter the cause.

I like this idea. Sure his is not some gold Master of whomever he is. But rather an everlasting reminder of what it is he stands for, That is if it is true copper grows in strength. Then I can get behind the idea the reason he is green-grey is because of how long he has been around.

[Toa Komali]

 

Back on topic. Green-grey is a odd color scheme to chose for Artakha. But I just realized it maybe symbolic. Artakha has had his land attacked and only asked for it to be uncharted after (with a few deaths hear and there but still) we see later on that he's kept in contact with the outside. Seen what Teridax has wrought and still has hope.

 

He alone is willing to fight to save the MU from a contingency plan of activate self destruct, Is willing to fight enemy and friend to save it. His color with the fact that we know the Vahi rusted makes it seem like he and the mask corroded. But he didn't he Tarnished copper has a odd thing to it when it oxidizes. It gets stronger not weaker. Artakha is a tarnished hero not a rusted relic. He stands firm no matter the cause.

I like this idea. Sure his is not some gold Master of whomever he is. But rather an everlasting reminder of what it is he stands for, That is if it is true copper grows in strength. Then I can get behind the idea the reason he is green-grey is because of how long he has been around.

 

"Tarnish is a surface phenomenon that is self-limiting, unlike rust. Only the top few layers of the metal react, and the layer of tarnish seals and protects the underlying layers from reacting."- Wikipedia

 

Hmm it may not be a structure strength but it indeed makes what it coats safer and less likely to be harmed. So yeah it's true. You need to remember one of the USA's great monuments is copper and she has a lot of green tarnish coating her. If it did harm we would have cleaned her up years ago. I'm talking about the Statue of Liberty here in case there is another you might have thought of that I didn't.    And I wouldn't be the least bit suprised if you had.

[Jacks]

Artakha as tarnished also sets up an interesting contrast with his brother -- Karzahni is more rust than tarnish, even if his colors don't really reflect it, and as we have seen, he only got weaker with age.

 

_{also fun fact they did try to clean the statue of liberty one time early in its career, only to quickly realize that de-tarnishing did it more harm than good, hence its current appearance}

[Prowl Nightwolf]

So the statue of liberty was not always green? That I did not know.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

So the statue of liberty was not always green? That I did not know.

Off-topic, but yes, it was once bright, sparkling, copper. You can imagine how unearthly it would have been for an immigrant to arrive in New York by boat, having that colossus of golden-copper rise out of the clearing ocean mist and fog and shine as you enter your new home.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Iaredios