Jump to content

A Question About Makuta in 2008


Recommended Posts

So, I have a question... if Makuta was sucessful at the end of 2008 in stealing Mata-Nui's body, why would he than lock Mata-Nui's spirit inside the mask of life... I mean, this is one of the strongest masks known to exist, a mask that also created its own body before, meaning it possibly could again, and even then, why didn't he just crush the mask, he's a giant in compairison (and it's not like he could destroy it, hydraxon almost did, Mata-Nui's body could definately destroy it, also, he just threw it into space, but couldn't Mata-Nui just create a body capable of flight, or a machine capable of flying back to his planet... lastly, Makuta came to the new planet only after Mata-Nui had finally obtained a new larger body, Makuta was (at least as I am led to believe) pretty smart, cautious, and manipulative, why would he ever make these several mistakes? I don't buy it, but I guess that's just way to end the story by 2010, buy post your thoughts, or what you would have done if you were in Makuta or Mata-nui's situation?

I'm digging I'm digging I'm digging I'm digging

I'm digging I'm digging

I'm digging I'm digging I'm digging I'm digging

I'm digging

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The easy answer is this: the Ignika had the power to destroy all life in the Matoran universe, including him, so it had to leave. 

 

Mata Nui's spirit, if left in the robot, posed an obvious control hazard to Makuta, so it had to leave. Putting them together and chucking them away seemed like the sensible option. 

 

Why he didn't destroy it after sending it away is a bit more of an open question. Perhaps Teridax was not able to use the robot's weapon systems quite yet.  

  • Upvote 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Plot and he might have not been able to destroy it without destroying himself, and that might hinder his plans

  • Upvote 5

audio_narration_project_banner_wide.jpg

 

Bionicle: ANP aims to create narrated versions of all the Bionicle books, with voice actors for each character, and music taken from various media to enhance the story. Check here if you're interested in voicing a character, and here for the chapters that've already been released!

Formerly: Tahu Nuva 3.0

Looking for a Bionicle Beanie. Black one with the symbol on it. Contact me if you are willing to sell

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get that it was for plot, but I don't see how destroying it would have destroyed him, then again, there are quite a few plot holes, or little tidbits that bug me mostly occuring after 2006, like if kardas was frozen in solidified time... how on Mata-Nui's green (earth) would they have been able to pry the mask of life off him, how did they even know that'd work without them to being frozen from contact with solidified time, or why the mask even flew into the ocean, all ways to make the plot way to easy, or why did Maxilos need a breathing tube if he was just a robot, or how the mask of time turned Dekar into hydraxon, a being the mask of life had never seen before, and if matoro teleported the other mahri away, (assumably the mask of life did this too, or maybe Mata-Nui himself) then why couldn't Mata-Nui just teleport to metru nui when he landed on (or before he reached) Bara Magna [all of these are rhetorical though] I just like pointing them out, I actually only thought of this yesterday.

  • Upvote 1

I'm digging I'm digging I'm digging I'm digging

I'm digging I'm digging

I'm digging I'm digging I'm digging I'm digging

I'm digging

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If he destroyed the Ignkia then all life in the Matoran Universe would have it's life sucked out, including the active 'great spirit'. And he left Mata Nui inside of a any other mask (items that can actively hold souls), then something like Jaller's resurrection could happen and he could have a serious rebellion from within. So he killed to birds with one stone and put them into space. He just didn't think that the Ignika would have enough of a boost from being shot from the Great Spirit's body  to land on Bara Magna, thinking that he would just drift in orbit.

 

Kardas' body was frozen at the time, including things physically attached to him like Vezon and the Ignika; why wouldn't Matoro be able to pry the mask off? If they wanted to, they could have also moved Vezon's arms to look like he was scratching his butt and picking his teeth if they wanted too, but were running out of time as the Piraka gang was getting back up from being defeated.

 

The ignika needs to be activated at the core of the Matoran Universe, which Av-Matoran had settled and called Karda Nui. This is so that it can supplement enough of an energy boost to start up Mata Nui's heart again, the heart beats being the energy storms that later killed the most elite Makuta (except Teridax). All remaining Makuta were either killed either by the Order of Mata Nui, or by Teridax upon his ascension to divine power (except Miserix, who was turned into a painting). Voya-Nui was was just above the Karda-Nui (Mahri-Nui in-between), so it had to go just down-down-down, passing through an ocean to get to a massive cave and blind some bats!

 

Not sure, maybe Lego set designers wanted it to fit in with the other late-2007 sets, either that or they don't know they story and just make things according to a set guideline and maybe request a few specialty pieces. The tube and the part of the face that juts out to catch the tube don't exist in-story.

 

About Hydraxon, I never really thought about it, I just went with it. I guess it knew what the Barraki were afraid of (possibly scanning them) and made Hydraxon come back to life through Dekar. I just had an idea: what if the Ignika has a record of every MU inhabitant? It can turn someone to someone else (non-antidermic) who is already dead?

 

Matoro did that while being powered to godly-levels by the Kanohi Ignika, giving him powerful abilities just before he died. He could have done anything, but he chose to save his friends from having to trek all the way north through an ocean to reach the island of Mata Nui, then the get to find a way below back to Metru-Nui. Such a humble last wish.

 

Mata Nui lost all of his divine powers after being exiled by Makuta Teridax

line.gif

new_roman_banner1.png

A RUDE AWAKENING - A Spherus Magna redo | Tzais-Kuluu  |  Pushing Back The Tide  |  Last Words  |  Black Coronation  | Blue Man Bound | Visions of Thasos   ن

We are all but grey specks in a dark complex before a single white light

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like fishers and Iaredios pointed out, destroying the Ignika would have had catastrophic results. Because it's a Legendary Kanohi, it's connected to all life inside and including the MU. In the same way that destroying the Vahi wuld shatter the fabric of time within the MU, destroying the Ignika could potentially snuff out the life of the GSR and all the life inside it -- including whatever spirit is in control of the robot -- in the blink of an eye.

 

re:Vezon & Kardas- the reason Matoro was able to remove the Ignika was because it had chosen him as its bearer. Also I'm fairly sure they were frozen in a stasis field, not solidified time.

 

The Dekar/Hydraxon thing was a totally cheap move. It would've made more sense for the Ignika to resurrect the original Hydraxon. Plus Dekar had so much potential as a character, just wasted in an instant :c

Edited by Junkbot Master of Trash
  • Upvote 3

-------------------------------------
bohrok_lol.jpg
-------------------------------------
Rate The Song Above You

Link to comment
Share on other sites

he might have not been able to destroy it without destroying himself, and that might hinder his plans

Destroying yourself tends to have that side effect. :P Edited by Anung Un Rama
  • Upvote 2

save not only their lives


d665fa5c17bc200a946e0a69eaf11f929dc080cb


but their spirits

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While there is some truth to what other people have posted (i.e. didn't want the mask to be used against him), I wouldn't say that was the main reason.

 

The real reason was to prevent the Ignika's failsafe from activating and absorbing all life within the Giant Robot Body.  It was sort of a side plot that didn't get a lot of story time, but the Mask of Light was gradually turning from gold to silver to black (whereupon it would absorb all life).  This failsafe was put in place by the Great Beings lest the Matoran Universe become unbalanced (such as someone else taking control of the place).  Obviously, Teridax wanted everyone alive to keep him ticking, so he had to jettison the mask and figured he'd kill two birds with one stone.

 

Another thing to consider is that the Ignika might have been one of the few things that could actually contain Mata Nui's spirit.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Didn't restarting the GSR deactivate the failsafe, though? The mask looked pretty darn gold to me when it got launched into space/landed on Bara Magna.

 

totally makes sense as the easiest way to get Mata Nui far away from his body as quickly as possible though :)

  • Upvote 2

-------------------------------------
bohrok_lol.jpg
-------------------------------------
Rate The Song Above You

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Didn't restarting the GSR deactivate the failsafe, though? The mask looked pretty darn gold to me when it got launched into space/landed on Bara Magna.

 

totally makes sense as the easiest way to get Mata Nui far away from his body as quickly as possible though :)

I assumed that was because it was no longer part of the Matoran Universe and that was what turned off the countdown.  I can't seem to find any definitive information on BS01 either way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Didn't restarting the GSR deactivate the failsafe, though? The mask looked pretty darn gold to me when it got launched into space/landed on Bara Magna.

 

totally makes sense as the easiest way to get Mata Nui far away from his body as quickly as possible though :)

I assumed that was because it was no longer part of the Matoran Universe and that was what turned off the countdown.  I can't seem to find any definitive information on BS01 either way.

 

 

Regardless, if a failsafe goes off even after the very thing it exists to prevent is averted: it becomes a(n extra) redundant failsafe, which is all well and good, a feature not a flaw - but not always, removing all life in the MU would make the MU somewhat, how do I say; ineffective.

 

So if 'activating' the MU isn't enough to prevent the failsafe from triggering: the creators of said failsafe assumeably cared more about a innert MU than a possibly compromised one, which raises the question: why have a countdown on the failsafe?

 

Maybe the creators didn't think the failsafe through? Or maybe the failsafe was deactivated upon the 'activation' of the MU.

(It certainly seems simpler to do so; it assumes that the creators are as 'intelligent' as they are implied to be...)

 

So whilst it might not be definitive information, it seems to be a more reasonable assumption @ this point IMO.

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Makuta was smart, cautious, and manipulative. that is, until he got all the powers of the universe.

 

2008 onward makuta was paranoid and cocky, taking out enemies as quickly as possible, though not really double checking their demises.

 

it seems he wanted both Mata-Nui and gthe Mask of Life gone at once, and decided this was a poetic way to do that. :t

  • Upvote 2

bnnrimg1.pngbnnrimg2.pngbnnrimg3.pngbnnrimg4.pngbnnrimg5.pngbnnrimg8.png

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

2008 onward makuta was paranoid and cocky

Is it just me, or are paranoid and cocky polar opposites that don't belong quite in the same sentence? Cockiness implies an excess of confidence; paranoia implies extreme suspicion and lack of confidence to an illogical degree. 

 

I agree.

 

If he was paranoid, he would have shot the ignika out into space, then after being ways away fire at it and destroy the two things. The real Teridax just shot Mata Nui into space so he could be trapped forever in orbit, similar to how Miserix was supposed to be forever trapped in a painting right next to (or rather, inside) the person he wanted to kill; he wanted to torture them as they were forced to watch him do as he pleased.. He was mindlessly arrogant. You saw how he was like in Journey's End: "If I can't have it, NOBODY CAN!". Pre-coup Teridax would never have acted the way he did right there, he would have tried to grab the Vahi from Vakama if he had that mindset; no, by this point, McTeri was mad with power.

  • Upvote 2

line.gif

new_roman_banner1.png

A RUDE AWAKENING - A Spherus Magna redo | Tzais-Kuluu  |  Pushing Back The Tide  |  Last Words  |  Black Coronation  | Blue Man Bound | Visions of Thasos   ن

We are all but grey specks in a dark complex before a single white light

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If he was paranoid, he would have shot the ignika out into space, then after being ways away fire at it and destroy the two things. The real Teridax just shot Mata Nui into space so he could be trapped forever in orbit [...]

 

Er, as has been mentioned destroying a Legendary Mask could have catastrophic consequences for him.

 

So arguably what he did do could have been both paranoid (if i destroy it, my robot malfunctions, if i keep it in orbit, I can gloat, & it's still unlikely to be able to do much if it stays stuck in orbit...), so arguably his actions are often very arragont but backed up with so many alternative schemes (you can't be paranoid enough if you have the capacity to keep track of enough) to back it up.

 

It's a dissonance, but not necessarily an impossible one...

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

If he was paranoid, he would have shot the ignika out into space, then after being ways away fire at it and destroy the two things. The real Teridax just shot Mata Nui into space so he could be trapped forever in orbit [...]

 

Er, as has been mentioned destroying a Legendary Mask could have catastrophic consequences for him.

 

So arguably what he did do could have been both paranoid (if i destroy it, my robot malfunctions, if i keep it in orbit, I can gloat, & it's still unlikely to be able to do much if it stays stuck in orbit...), so arguably his actions are often very arragont but backed up with so many alternative schemes (you can't be paranoid enough if you have the capacity to keep track of enough) to back it up.

 

It's a dissonance, but not necessarily an impossible one...

 

If it is outside of the bounds of the Matoran Universe i don't think it effects anything upon it's destruction (theory: unless maybe a focused blast radius about the same amount of volume of the inside of the Matoran Universe, sucking out life in a space smaller than the Earth). This is why it went back to gold when being shot outside.

Edited by Iaredios
  • Upvote 1

line.gif

new_roman_banner1.png

A RUDE AWAKENING - A Spherus Magna redo | Tzais-Kuluu  |  Pushing Back The Tide  |  Last Words  |  Black Coronation  | Blue Man Bound | Visions of Thasos   ن

We are all but grey specks in a dark complex before a single white light

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it is outside of the bounds of the Matoran Universe i don't think it effects anything upon it's destruction (unless maybe a focused blast radius about the same amount of volume of the inside of the Matoran Universe, sucking out life in a space as large as the Earth). This is why it went back to gold when being shot outside.

 

That's speculation. & he could have speculated that or an other way, or both ways, there could be hundreds of other possibilities he thought of.

As for "This is why it went back to gold when being shot outside." can you please provide some evidence for this?

Because otherwise I'm going to continue with the idea that it turned gold 'cause the MU was working again.

 

It has been suggested that the Legendary Masks are tied to the MU specifically(-ish); so what reasons do we have to assume one way or another?

You've provided a tad more opinion than evidence, unless I've missed a few key posts of yours here...

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lastly, Makuta came to the new planet only after Mata-Nui had finally obtained a new larger body, 

I think the power signature of a giant robot on a distant planet is easier to read than that of a Toa-sized figure. Besides that, Makuta apparently did not have the full control over his systems until quite some time after taking over the MU Robot.

 

-NotS

  • Upvote 1

tahubanner.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

If it is outside of the bounds of the Matoran Universe i don't think it effects anything upon it's destruction (unless maybe a focused blast radius about the same amount of volume of the inside of the Matoran Universe, sucking out life in a space as large as the Earth). This is why it went back to gold when being shot outside.

 

That's speculation. & he could have speculated that or an other way, or both ways, there could be hundreds of other possibilities he thought of.

As for "This is why it went back to gold when being shot outside." can you please provide some evidence for this?

Because otherwise I'm going to continue with the idea that it turned gold 'cause the MU was working again.

 

It has been suggested that the Legendary Masks are tied to the MU specifically(-ish); so what reasons do we have to assume one way or another?

You've provided a tad more opinion than evidence, unless I've missed a few key posts of yours here...

 

It's also just strategy. Paranoia is believing that things are out to get you/kill you/etc even when they aren't. It's a feeling. 

 

Knowing that something will kill you and getting rid of it before it does is just smart planning. In fact, it even plays into Makuta's late hubris. "I, the mighty Makuta, immediately dealt with the two most immediate obstacles to my rule by putting them together and shooting them into outer space." Oh, aren't I sooo smart. 

 

*Mata Nui stands up on Bara Magna*

 

Helryx: "Look, Makuta, is that a threat?"

 

"Oh, no threat to me, little one. I am the Mighty Makuta. I have greaaaat power. I will destrooooy him. MUHAHAHAAAA!"

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

If it is outside of the bounds of the Matoran Universe i don't think it effects anything upon it's destruction (unless maybe a focused blast radius about the same amount of volume of the inside of the Matoran Universe, sucking out life in a space as large as the Earth). This is why it went back to gold when being shot outside.

 

That's speculation. & he could have speculated that or an other way, or both ways, there could be hundreds of other possibilities he thought of.

As for "This is why it went back to gold when being shot outside." can you please provide some evidence for this?

Because otherwise I'm going to continue with the idea that it turned gold 'cause the MU was working again.

 

It has been suggested that the Legendary Masks are tied to the MU specifically(-ish); so what reasons do we have to assume one way or another?

You've provided a tad more opinion than evidence, unless I've missed a few key posts of yours here...

 

It's also just strategy. Paranoia is believing that things are out to get you/kill you/etc even when they aren't. It's a feeling. 

 

Knowing that something will kill you and getting rid of it before it does is just smart planning. In fact, it even plays into Makuta's late hubris. "I, the mighty Makuta, immediately dealt with the two most immediate obstacles to my rule by putting them together and shooting them into outer space." Oh, aren't I sooo smart. 

 

*Mata Nui stands up on Bara Magna*

 

Helryx: "Look, Makuta, is that a threat?"

 

"Oh, no threat to me, little one. I am the Mighty Makuta. I have greaaaat power. I will destrooooy him. MUHAHAHAAAA!"

 

Hahahaha, well put!

  • Upvote 1

line.gif

new_roman_banner1.png

A RUDE AWAKENING - A Spherus Magna redo | Tzais-Kuluu  |  Pushing Back The Tide  |  Last Words  |  Black Coronation  | Blue Man Bound | Visions of Thasos   ن

We are all but grey specks in a dark complex before a single white light

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So it seems that if Makuta had actually taken a few more minutes of effort and altered the trajectory of the Ignika to launch it into space far away from Bara Magna, nothing would have been able to stop him. Good job, Makuta!

 

~B~

Edited by Ballom
  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or you can go with this Greg quote: 
 

I think it's important to remember the distinction between "I do good things because I am good" and "I do good things only because I am afraid of the consequences if I do what I want to do" -- the latter is not really being good, because the heart's intent is not good.
 
Teridax was always driven by pride and hubris and when he saw an opportunity to act on it without negative consequences to himself personally, he took it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...