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Second generation of Toa Masters?


BioniCro

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So, we had Toa Mata to Toa Nuva, Toa Metru to Toa Hordika, Toa Inika to Toa Mahri and then Toa Nuva to Toa Phantoka/Mistika... What I am wondering is this: Can we expect Toa Masters of 2015 will have an additional versions like all Toa prior to them? Like, when Lego releases those skull villains, can we expect a new version of current Toa?

 

Do you think that is possible? Would you like that?

 

What would you like in the future Toa? What kind of designs, themes?

 

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This is very likely to happen. Probably at the start of next year, though.

What will most likely happen at the end of this story year is most likely having the Toa and Ekimu reclaim the Mask of Creation, then Ekimu using the mask to grant the Toa new and stronger forms. But that's for S&T, so I'll just get on with it!  :P

 

I would love to see new forms for the current Toa, but I would also like for it to utilize the newer systems that the reboot has introduced. For example, I love the new heads and the mask pop-off function is great, but I don't like how loose the masks are on the Toa. If they made all of the masks shape to the new heads just as they did with the Skull Spider masks, then I feel like the masks would hold on better and be a lot less annoying to handle.

I would also like to see new molds and (maybe) new colors, but I think everyone would like that. New colors for existing molds would be great, too.  :D

As far as themes go, I'm not really sure. I think I will just leave it up to Lego to figure that out. 

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When LEGO releases the skull villains, no. But later on, yes, there will probably be new versions of these six Toa.

 

I'm not sure quite what would be the best changes for new versions of the current Toa. New or recolored masks would be quite cool, and perhaps stronger elemental motifs. Armor with two-color blends might be an option, as could more printed parts (currently, none of the basic shells of the new Toa are printed, but we know LEGO is capable of printing several sizes of shell). It'll definitely be tricky to make new Toa designs that measure up to the current ones, but I believe the LEGO Group's designers are up to the challenge.

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The Masters will be redesigned. This is fact. What do i want to see? More Trans-colours, more colour variance (purple should have been onua' secondary colour), different weapons...

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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The Toa will probably be redesigned, possibly more in tune with their elements. As for the rest of the 2016 line, I want more villagers, this time with names. It's kind of annoying that the Protectors don't have names. I mean, the BZP review for the Protector of Earth named him Barney, and I'm sticking to that, but what else can we expect? Dunno, man.

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The Masters are getting probably upgrades. Personally, I'd like to see the designs on the masters' chest to be printed on the shells and masks. They're neat designs and they add to a more tribal feel, which I like (can we get them on t-shirts?). New armor molds would be nice, and I'm glad we're getting a new one in the summer wave. Also, Lewa could have more neck articulation. New weapons would be nice; I'm just not sure how they should upgrade each master. More trans colours for bones and eyes. And a price drop. I get that plastic is not as cheap as it once was, but $20 for a single toa is definitely pushing it (which is also why I haven't bought any G2 sets yet). If they were all $15, that'd be more reasonable, considering they all have around 90 pieces (except Onua and Pohatu, the biggest and smallest).

 

Or we could just get a big tub/box of parts and LEGO would let us upgrade the existing toa to our hearts' content. :)

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I believe it is most likely that the Toa Moasters would get an upgrade. If they become Toa Nuva, I would think they would be called "Super Masters" in 2015 terms because I believe new fans would not be able to learn their non-generic name for their team right, like they wouldn't call the Protectors "Matoran" or "Agori".

Anyway, I would love to see the Toa getting new pieces for their new armor, weapons, and probably new shapes for their masks.:)

Edited by Lenny7092

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I would love to see Toa Nuva-esque transformations. Meaning silver as secondary color for all the $15 Masters, and primary for the $20 Masters if Lego decides to go with that business model again.

 

Eh...I'm getting an Mistika/Phantoka vibe from my opinion.

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Hopefully they'll add variety to the design. The Toas all look pretty similar as of now, compared to the variety in G1 Toa Teams (post 2006).

Are you serious?

 

I was never 100% happy with any G1 Toa Team as far as sets were concerned. They were always either clones (with near-identical parts, proportions, and builds) or completely lacking any sort of visual unity (the Toa Mahri relied solely on tubes and blasters to convey their affiliation, and the Phantoka and Mistika had slightly more unity as far as color schemes were concerned, but only among their particular group of three). The new Toa have unifying features (like their chest patterns and the general unified look granted by the CCBS), but their builds, proportions, color schemes, and armor configurations are more diverse than ever before.

Edited by Lyichir
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I feel like the new Toa are kind of a stylistic fusion of the Toa Mata and Nuva. The Toa Nuva were a big deal when they first came out because they basically introduced armor as a common theme in Bionicle outside titans like the Exo-Toa. The Toa Mata basically had no armor at all, so even though the Toa Nuva were basically the original rehash they felt really new and exciting because they all had fancy armor. I feel like the Toa Masters are the most heavily armored Toa we've seen yet, so I have no idea how exactly they could upgrade them. I have confidence in Lego that they'll give us something cool. I'm hoping to see some more silver stuff like in G1, I always thought silver was a much cooler color than gold especially since Bionicle gold is closer to bronze really.

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Hopefully they'll add variety to the design. The Toas all look pretty similar as of now, compared to the variety in G1 Toa Teams (post 2006).

Are you serious?

 

I was never 100% happy with any G1 Toa Team as far as sets were concerned. They were always either clones (with near-identical parts, proportions, and builds) or completely lacking any sort of visual unity (the Toa Mahri relied solely on tubes and blasters to convey their affiliation, and the Phantoka and Mistika had slightly more unity as far as color schemes were concerned, but only among their particular group of three). The new Toa have unifying features (like their chest patterns and the general unified look granted by the CCBS), but their builds, proportions, color schemes, and armor configurations are more diverse than ever before.

 

Yeah I'm serious. The new Toa are more alike than you say in build. Different proportions are basically the same bone and shell pieces in a different length. Not to mention they all use the exact same feet except for Onua. With the exception of gearboxes and shoulder armors, they all follow the same scheme, and I'm left struggling to find a reason to buy them besides to own the main cast (mind you, I am going to buy them all, I just don't know why, I want to like them but idk). If anyone is a new fan, what would be their inclination to buy the sets if they're all so similar? They don't really have any attachment to the characters yet.

Edited by bioniclepluslotr
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I agree with SPIRIT. In the new canon, it's illegal or forbidden to have masks with more than one element, right? Instead of adding more elemental power onto the existing characters (like some people are suggesting is going to happen this summer), get some new elements in there. Again, like I said before, I really want more villagers to diversify the mythos. Similar to the protectors, but not them. Maybe have differently blended "protector" masks, or the solid colors we see in the videos. The only problem I see with more villagers is the fact that from what we've seen in the videos, none of them have weapons and such; the protectors are the leaders and defenders of the tribes.

 

Also, about the new elements, that might be kind of hard to do, seeing as there are only six regions of Okoto. If there were more, that'd be great. Ooo, what if the Toa discovered an ancient tribe living in the Protector Ruins? Like, the descendents of those who did not want to leave after the incident with the Mask of Ultimate Power? I don't know, but it might be cool.

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Hopefully they'll add variety to the design. The Toas all look pretty similar as of now, compared to the variety in G1 Toa Teams (post 2006).

Are you serious?

 

I was never 100% happy with any G1 Toa Team as far as sets were concerned. They were always either clones (with near-identical parts, proportions, and builds) or completely lacking any sort of visual unity (the Toa Mahri relied solely on tubes and blasters to convey their affiliation, and the Phantoka and Mistika had slightly more unity as far as color schemes were concerned, but only among their particular group of three). The new Toa have unifying features (like their chest patterns and the general unified look granted by the CCBS), but their builds, proportions, color schemes, and armor configurations are more diverse than ever before.

 

Yeah I'm serious. The new Toa are more alike than you say in build. Different proportions are basically the same bone and shell pieces in a different length. Not to mention they all use the exact same feet except for Onua. With the exception of gearboxes and shoulder armors, they all follow the same scheme, and I'm left struggling to find a reason to buy them besides to own the main cast (mind you, I am going to buy them all, I just don't know why, I want to like them but idk). If anyone is a new fan, what would be their inclination to buy the sets if they're all so similar? They don't really have any attachment to the characters yet.

 

Because all the Toa are different, even if they use similar pieces. Lewa's is average in height, but his raised shoulders and lanky arms give him a simian look. Onua is obviously a powerhouse, but also one of the shortest Toa. Pohatu is the same height, but with the leanest build of all the Toa (he is also the only Toa with his armor arranged asymmetrically). Gali's height and skeleton proportions are average, but she has an exceptionally streamlined design. Kopaka is taller than average, with extremely heavy armor on his shoulders and upper and lower legs as well as slightly raised shoulder joints. Tahu is the tallest of the Toa, with lean upper legs and flared lower legs.

 

To put it a different way, the new Toa's differences are obvious in this image, which actually downplays the differences in their heights.

 

Really, if old-school fans like us could be convinced to collect the Toa Metru who were all completely identical builds except for two being taller than the others, or the Toa Hordika and Toa Inika who literally had zero differences in their body proportions between team members, then it's silly to say that the differences in the new Toa aren't substantial enough for new fans to care.

 

Post-2006 Toa teams may have had more diversity than the new Toa as far as molds and textures were concerned, but their visual unity suffered as a result. Thanks to their mishmash of incompatible textures from across various years of sets, only the weapons and environment-specific equipment clearly told you which of the Toa Mahri, Phantoka, and Mistika were on the same team, whereas the new Toa all adhere a shared visual language while still having as much variety in their builds or more than any of those teams.

Edited by Aanchir
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I hope that the designers do not bring the sets down by incorporating some type of gimmick for that year only. If they do what they did this year with the gear functions and dual-functioning weapons, or at least add something without sacrificing the form of the set. It is all too common that design comes second with not only Lego lines, but with other toy lines. Just look at some of the Transformers toys... :/

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We can definitely see some upgrades. Something hopefully to change it up instead of just adding more armor onto them


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Hopefully they'll add variety to the design. The Toas all look pretty similar as of now, compared to the variety in G1 Toa Teams (post 2006).

Are you serious?

 

I was never 100% happy with any G1 Toa Team as far as sets were concerned. They were always either clones (with near-identical parts, proportions, and builds) or completely lacking any sort of visual unity (the Toa Mahri relied solely on tubes and blasters to convey their affiliation, and the Phantoka and Mistika had slightly more unity as far as color schemes were concerned, but only among their particular group of three). The new Toa have unifying features (like their chest patterns and the general unified look granted by the CCBS), but their builds, proportions, color schemes, and armor configurations are more diverse than ever before.

 

Yeah I'm serious. The new Toa are more alike than you say in build. Different proportions are basically the same bone and shell pieces in a different length. Not to mention they all use the exact same feet except for Onua. With the exception of gearboxes and shoulder armors, they all follow the same scheme, and I'm left struggling to find a reason to buy them besides to own the main cast (mind you, I am going to buy them all, I just don't know why, I want to like them but idk). If anyone is a new fan, what would be their inclination to buy the sets if they're all so similar? They don't really have any attachment to the characters yet.

 

Because all the Toa are different, even if they use similar pieces. Lewa's is average in height, but his raised shoulders and lanky arms give him a simian look. Onua is obviously a powerhouse, but also one of the shortest Toa. Pohatu is the same height, but with the leanest build of all the Toa (he is also the only Toa with his armor arranged asymmetrically). Gali's height and skeleton proportions are average, but she has an exceptionally streamlined design. Kopaka is taller than average, with extremely heavy armor on his shoulders and upper and lower legs as well as slightly raised shoulder joints. Tahu is the tallest of the Toa, with lean upper legs and flared lower legs.

 

To put it a different way, the new Toa's differences are obvious in this image, which actually downplays the differences in their heights.

 

Really, if old-school fans like us could be convinced to collect the Toa Metru who were all completely identical builds except for two being taller than the others, or the Toa Hordika and Toa Inika who literally had zero differences in their body proportions between team members, then it's silly to say that the differences in the new Toa aren't substantial enough for new fans to care.

 

Post-2006 Toa teams may have had more diversity than the new Toa as far as molds and textures were concerned, but their visual unity suffered as a result. Thanks to their mishmash of incompatible textures from across various years of sets, only the weapons and environment-specific equipment clearly told you which of the Toa Mahri, Phantoka, and Mistika were on the same team, whereas the new Toa all adhere a shared visual language while still having as much variety in their builds or more than any of those teams.

 

As I recall the Hordika and Inika were the most unpopular waves at the time, making Lego do the switch to make all the sets different. As you say, you can tell that the Toa were from the same team by their accessories. That's really all they need. Why give up uniqueness to make them look similar? Each Toa is a specialized individual with their own elements, powers, personality, etc. They're not some military force that needs uniformity to look like a team. Look at other hero teams from other franchises: the Autobots, the Avengers, the Justice League. Every character is practically their own design.

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Hopefully they'll add variety to the design. The Toas all look pretty similar as of now, compared to the variety in G1 Toa Teams (post 2006).

Are you serious?

 

I was never 100% happy with any G1 Toa Team as far as sets were concerned. They were always either clones (with near-identical parts, proportions, and builds) or completely lacking any sort of visual unity (the Toa Mahri relied solely on tubes and blasters to convey their affiliation, and the Phantoka and Mistika had slightly more unity as far as color schemes were concerned, but only among their particular group of three). The new Toa have unifying features (like their chest patterns and the general unified look granted by the CCBS), but their builds, proportions, color schemes, and armor configurations are more diverse than ever before.

 

Yeah I'm serious. The new Toa are more alike than you say in build. Different proportions are basically the same bone and shell pieces in a different length. Not to mention they all use the exact same feet except for Onua. With the exception of gearboxes and shoulder armors, they all follow the same scheme, and I'm left struggling to find a reason to buy them besides to own the main cast (mind you, I am going to buy them all, I just don't know why, I want to like them but idk). If anyone is a new fan, what would be their inclination to buy the sets if they're all so similar? They don't really have any attachment to the characters yet.

 

Because all the Toa are different, even if they use similar pieces. Lewa's is average in height, but his raised shoulders and lanky arms give him a simian look. Onua is obviously a powerhouse, but also one of the shortest Toa. Pohatu is the same height, but with the leanest build of all the Toa (he is also the only Toa with his armor arranged asymmetrically). Gali's height and skeleton proportions are average, but she has an exceptionally streamlined design. Kopaka is taller than average, with extremely heavy armor on his shoulders and upper and lower legs as well as slightly raised shoulder joints. Tahu is the tallest of the Toa, with lean upper legs and flared lower legs.

 

To put it a different way, the new Toa's differences are obvious in this image, which actually downplays the differences in their heights.

 

Really, if old-school fans like us could be convinced to collect the Toa Metru who were all completely identical builds except for two being taller than the others, or the Toa Hordika and Toa Inika who literally had zero differences in their body proportions between team members, then it's silly to say that the differences in the new Toa aren't substantial enough for new fans to care.

 

Post-2006 Toa teams may have had more diversity than the new Toa as far as molds and textures were concerned, but their visual unity suffered as a result. Thanks to their mishmash of incompatible textures from across various years of sets, only the weapons and environment-specific equipment clearly told you which of the Toa Mahri, Phantoka, and Mistika were on the same team, whereas the new Toa all adhere a shared visual language while still having as much variety in their builds or more than any of those teams.

 

As I recall the Hordika and Inika were the most unpopular waves at the time, making Lego do the switch to make all the sets different. As you say, you can tell that the Toa were from the same team by their accessories. That's really all they need. Why give up uniqueness to make them look similar? Each Toa is a specialized individual with their own elements, powers, personality, etc. They're not some military force that needs uniformity to look like a team. Look at other hero teams from other franchises: the Autobots, the Avengers, the Justice League. Every character is practically their own design.

 

Comparing the Toa to the Avengers straight-up does. not. work.

 

Each of the Avengers has their own separate origin, context, etc. They're all totally independent of each other, and the fact that they sometimes team up is incidental to who they are.

 

The Toa were created as a team. Yeah, they have to learn to work together effectively, but they are intended as one unit. Their status as a team is fundamental to their identities. They may not be a "military force" as such, but the mantra from G1 still applies here, I think -- six heroes, one destiny.

 

The only Toa team that you could reasonably compare to the Avengers is the Mangai.

 

Furthermore, in the post-Zamor launcher era, the yearly gimmicks were minimally functional (and pretty ugly but that's just my opinion) so why would you choose that as your one defining characteristic??

 

You are correct that the Hordika/Inika were the least popular, and prompted the change in design sensibilities, but that does not mean the change was an improvement -- that's a significant jump to conclusions. If anything, the 2015 Toa are the result of the design team learning from the mistakes of 2004-06 and the mistakes of 2007-10

Edited by Jacks
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If the way Hero Factory heroes went and the shift from "Matoran-sounding" words to more generic names like "Masters" and "Skull Basher" etc is anything to go by, I have a feeling we'll be sticking with these Masters through the whole line. I mean Ekimu is proof they're not afraid to add new named characters but Greg's name lists getting approved by legal toward the end of G1 made it pretty clear Lego wanted to shy away from name-based liabilities (e.g. the Naming Day incident). 

 

But yeah what I'm saying is I think Hero Factory's format of fire-themed Furno 2.0, (ahem) furry-themed Furno 3.0, cop-themed Furno 4.0, etc is likely to be carried over into Bionicle. We get the 2015 Masters to fight the Skull Guys, and we'll get, say, digging Tahu for some underground monsters, flying Tahu for some sky monsters, etc.

Edited by Cap'n K
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Hopefully they'll add variety to the design. The Toas all look pretty similar as of now, compared to the variety in G1 Toa Teams (post 2006).

Are you serious?

 

I was never 100% happy with any G1 Toa Team as far as sets were concerned. They were always either clones (with near-identical parts, proportions, and builds) or completely lacking any sort of visual unity (the Toa Mahri relied solely on tubes and blasters to convey their affiliation, and the Phantoka and Mistika had slightly more unity as far as color schemes were concerned, but only among their particular group of three). The new Toa have unifying features (like their chest patterns and the general unified look granted by the CCBS), but their builds, proportions, color schemes, and armor configurations are more diverse than ever before.

 

Yeah I'm serious. The new Toa are more alike than you say in build. Different proportions are basically the same bone and shell pieces in a different length. Not to mention they all use the exact same feet except for Onua. With the exception of gearboxes and shoulder armors, they all follow the same scheme, and I'm left struggling to find a reason to buy them besides to own the main cast (mind you, I am going to buy them all, I just don't know why, I want to like them but idk). If anyone is a new fan, what would be their inclination to buy the sets if they're all so similar? They don't really have any attachment to the characters yet.

 

Because all the Toa are different, even if they use similar pieces. Lewa's is average in height, but his raised shoulders and lanky arms give him a simian look. Onua is obviously a powerhouse, but also one of the shortest Toa. Pohatu is the same height, but with the leanest build of all the Toa (he is also the only Toa with his armor arranged asymmetrically). Gali's height and skeleton proportions are average, but she has an exceptionally streamlined design. Kopaka is taller than average, with extremely heavy armor on his shoulders and upper and lower legs as well as slightly raised shoulder joints. Tahu is the tallest of the Toa, with lean upper legs and flared lower legs.

 

To put it a different way, the new Toa's differences are obvious in this image, which actually downplays the differences in their heights.

 

Really, if old-school fans like us could be convinced to collect the Toa Metru who were all completely identical builds except for two being taller than the others, or the Toa Hordika and Toa Inika who literally had zero differences in their body proportions between team members, then it's silly to say that the differences in the new Toa aren't substantial enough for new fans to care.

 

Post-2006 Toa teams may have had more diversity than the new Toa as far as molds and textures were concerned, but their visual unity suffered as a result. Thanks to their mishmash of incompatible textures from across various years of sets, only the weapons and environment-specific equipment clearly told you which of the Toa Mahri, Phantoka, and Mistika were on the same team, whereas the new Toa all adhere a shared visual language while still having as much variety in their builds or more than any of those teams.

 

As I recall the Hordika and Inika were the most unpopular waves at the time, making Lego do the switch to make all the sets different. As you say, you can tell that the Toa were from the same team by their accessories. That's really all they need. Why give up uniqueness to make them look similar? Each Toa is a specialized individual with their own elements, powers, personality, etc. They're not some military force that needs uniformity to look like a team. Look at other hero teams from other franchises: the Autobots, the Avengers, the Justice League. Every character is practically their own design.

 

Comparing the Toa to the Avengers straight-up does. not. work.

 

Each of the Avengers has their own separate origin, context, etc. They're all totally independent of each other, and the fact that they sometimes team up is incidental to who they are.

 

The Toa were created as a team. Yeah, they have to learn to work together effectively, but they are intended as one unit. Their status as a team is fundamental to their identities. They may not be a "military force" as such, but the mantra from G1 still applies here, I think -- six heroes, one destiny.

 

The only Toa team that you could reasonably compare to the Avengers is the Mangai.

 

Furthermore, in the post-Zamor launcher era, the yearly gimmicks were minimally functional (and pretty ugly but that's just my opinion) so why would you choose that as your one defining characteristic??

 

You are correct that the Hordika/Inika were the least popular, and prompted the change in design sensibilities, but that does not mean the change was an improvement -- that's a significant jump to conclusions. If anything, the 2015 Toa are the result of the design team learning from the mistakes of 2004-06 and the mistakes of 2007-10

 

it certainly was an improvement if it brought interest back to the series from people tired of clones. Unless people gave up Bionicle because the Toa looked too different, it wasn't a mistake.

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I'm not saying it was a mistake, I'm saying it wasn't necessarily an improvement. It was a change in design sensibilities that was not necessarily connected to a change in quality (well, a significant drop in quality if you consider the durapibilty of the pieces themselves, but that's neither here nor there).

 

Let's take the Toa Mahri as an example. Yes, they looked very different from their predecessors. Yes, they looked different from one another, but this was because wildly varying amounts of effort had been applied to their designs. Jaller was a major standout, whereas Hewkii was such a sad jumbled mess that he was really only worth purchasing as a parts pack for keetorange joints and interesting blades, and the remaining four were pretty unremarkable compared to either of the former two. The only thing that unified them as a team was an oversized one-piece blaster with ammo that launched inconsistently and got lost almost immediately.

 

But did they sell well? Heck yes. How much of that resulted from the marketing or the fact that 07 gave us a very fast-paced exciting story I do not know, nor do I know how much of those sales were to new fans v. preexisting fans, which is another tidbit we'd need in order to use this to rate the design sensibilities.

 

In any case, if we're gonna use sales figures as an indicator of quality, we need to wait the better part of a year before we can include the Toa Okoto in this discussion on a level playing field.

 

That was a bit rambly, though. The bottom line is that I agree with you that nobody likes clone sets -- the issue I have is that it takes an absurd amount of willful nearsightedness to describe the Toa Okoto as clones while keeping a straight face.

Edited by Jacks
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The only thing that unified them as a team was an oversized one-piece blaster with ammo that launched inconsistently and got lost almost immediately.

 

Well, don't forget the gills/breathing tubes. Those were a pretty significant unifying factor as well.

 

I definitely think the shift away from clone sets was a good thing, and after I got over the shock of some of the Toa Mahri having Piraka torsos, I really did love that series of sets (though the radically different textures of their armor continued to frustrate me as an artist for years to come). However, that's not to say nothing short of the Toa Mahri can offer a satisfying level of variety. After all, 2005 and 2006 were certainly not the BIONICLE theme's most popular years, but 2002 and 2003 had some of the highest sales in the theme's entire run (and the 2003 sets' sales were limited by the fact that many stores could not satisfy the high demand for BIONICLE sets in the run-up to Christmas).

 

Frankly, I am quite happy with how the Toa and Protectors alike have a very consistent design language. As I mentioned, as an artist I could often get frustrated with sets that didn't have any kind of uniformity despite ostensibly being the same team or species. In my drawings I would go to great lengths to play up the motifs that appeared multiple times on the set's armor, or the motifs they shared with their teammates, or the motifs they shared with previous versions of the character. Some examples include this drawing from 2012, where I tried to draw connections between the Turaga and Toa Metru forms of Vakama, or these drawings of human Phantoka, where I tried to make their armor in general more consistently "Nuva-ish" . But with G2, I don't have to reach so much just to make the Toa believable as the same species or the same team. From the textures of their armor to the decorations on their torsos, they have an innate visual unity.

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Armor with two-color blends might be an option, as could more printed parts (currently, none of the basic shells of the new Toa are printed, but we know LEGO is capable of printing several sizes of shell).

That's definitely a possibility, after all they did have two colour blends with the hero recon team chest plate (which is a pretty awesome piece might I add).

It's time to move on.

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Hopefully they'll add variety to the design. The Toas all look pretty similar as of now, compared to the variety in G1 Toa Teams (post 2006).

Are you serious?

 

I was never 100% happy with any G1 Toa Team as far as sets were concerned. They were always either clones (with near-identical parts, proportions, and builds) or completely lacking any sort of visual unity (the Toa Mahri relied solely on tubes and blasters to convey their affiliation, and the Phantoka and Mistika had slightly more unity as far as color schemes were concerned, but only among their particular group of three). The new Toa have unifying features (like their chest patterns and the general unified look granted by the CCBS), but their builds, proportions, color schemes, and armor configurations are more diverse than ever before.

 

Yeah I'm serious. The new Toa are more alike than you say in build. Different proportions are basically the same bone and shell pieces in a different length. Not to mention they all use the exact same feet except for Onua. With the exception of gearboxes and shoulder armors, they all follow the same scheme, and I'm left struggling to find a reason to buy them besides to own the main cast (mind you, I am going to buy them all, I just don't know why, I want to like them but idk). If anyone is a new fan, what would be their inclination to buy the sets if they're all so similar? They don't really have any attachment to the characters yet.

Really, if old-school fans like us could be convinced to collect the Toa Metru who were all completely identical builds except for two being taller than the others, or the Toa Hordika and Toa Inika who literally had zero differences in their body proportions between team members, then it's silly to say that the differences in the new Toa aren't substantial enough for new fans to care.

Zero differences in body proportions between the Inika? Yeah, no. For the most part they were similar, but to say that they have zero differences in body proportions simply isn't true. Matoro, Nuparu and Hewkii shared the "bulky" build, Jaller and Kongu had a "streamlined" build and Hahli have a combination of the two. There were two sets of feet amongst the Toa as well, three having one kind and three having another. And if you want variation between members, sure: Nuparu had claws and a shoulder-mounted blaster. Kongu and Hahli have melded pieces, Matoro and Jaller have transparent bones that really set off their colors in a way the 2015 Toa don't, and Hewkii comes with a chain and his upper leg armor is upside down.

 

The Inika may be clone builds, but they're certainly not exact replicas of one another in the parts department. Matoro, Nuparu and Hewkii all have differentiations (Nuparu's claws count, and so do his feet) in their proportions, however minor. Even Kongu and Jaller share different proportions, if only in the feet regions.

 

So no, the Inika have far more than zero differences in body proportions alone amongst members, however slight those changes may be.

Edited by Torchbearer
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Hopefully they'll add variety to the design. The Toas all look pretty similar as of now, compared to the variety in G1 Toa Teams (post 2006).

Are you serious?

 

I was never 100% happy with any G1 Toa Team as far as sets were concerned. They were always either clones (with near-identical parts, proportions, and builds) or completely lacking any sort of visual unity (the Toa Mahri relied solely on tubes and blasters to convey their affiliation, and the Phantoka and Mistika had slightly more unity as far as color schemes were concerned, but only among their particular group of three). The new Toa have unifying features (like their chest patterns and the general unified look granted by the CCBS), but their builds, proportions, color schemes, and armor configurations are more diverse than ever before.

 

Yeah I'm serious. The new Toa are more alike than you say in build. Different proportions are basically the same bone and shell pieces in a different length. Not to mention they all use the exact same feet except for Onua. With the exception of gearboxes and shoulder armors, they all follow the same scheme, and I'm left struggling to find a reason to buy them besides to own the main cast (mind you, I am going to buy them all, I just don't know why, I want to like them but idk). If anyone is a new fan, what would be their inclination to buy the sets if they're all so similar? They don't really have any attachment to the characters yet.

 

Really, if old-school fans like us could be convinced to collect the Toa Metru who were all completely identical builds except for two being taller than the others, or the Toa Hordika and Toa Inika who literally had zero differences in their body proportions between team members, then it's silly to say that the differences in the new Toa aren't substantial enough for new fans to care.

 

Zero differences in body proportions between the Inika? Yeah, no. For the most part they were similar, but to say that they have zero differences in body proportions simply isn't true. Matoro, Nuparu and Hewkii shared the "bulky" build, Jaller and Kongu had a "streamlined" build and Hahli have a combination of the two. There were two sets of feet amongst the Toa as well, three having one kind and three having another. And if you want variation between members, sure: Nuparu had claws and a shoulder-mounted blaster. Kongu and Hahli have melded pieces, Matoro and Jaller have transparent bones that really set off their colors in a way the 2015 Toa don't, and Hewkii comes with a chain and his upper leg armor is upside down.

 

The Inika may be clone builds, but they're certainly not exact replicas of one another in the parts department. Matoro, Nuparu and Hewkii all have differentiations (Nuparu's claws count, and so do his feet) in their proportions, however minor. Even Kongu and Jaller share different proportions, if only in the feet regions.

 

So no, the Inika have far more than zero differences in body proportions alone amongst members, however slight those changes may be.

 

By "proportions" he meant the actual measurements that determine a figure's stature—things like arm and leg length, shoulder width, torso height, etc. They used multiple torso armor solutions and weapons, but none of those changed those basic body proportions at all. I suppose "waistline" and "foot length" could count as proportions if you want to be anal about it, but I've literally never seen that considered when discussing the overall proportions of Bionicle sets.

 

The Piraka also used alternating parts to disguise the fact that they were unquestionably clone sets. But it hardly made a difference, and the sets were still far, far less unique and distinctive than the new Toa, which differ by a lot more than four parts apiece.

Edited by Lyichir

Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

Aanchir's and Meiko's brother

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Really, if old-school fans like us could be convinced to collect the Toa Metru who were all completely identical builds except for two being taller than the others, or the Toa Hordika and Toa Inika who literally had zero differences in their body proportions between team members, then it's silly to say that the differences in the new Toa aren't substantial enough for new fans to care.

Zero differences in body proportions between the Inika? Yeah, no. For the most part they were similar, but to say that they have zero differences in body proportions simply isn't true. Matoro, Nuparu and Hewkii shared the "bulky" build, Jaller and Kongu had a "streamlined" build and Hahli have a combination of the two. There were two sets of feet amongst the Toa as well, three having one kind and three having another. And if you want variation between members, sure: Nuparu had claws and a shoulder-mounted blaster. Kongu and Hahli have melded pieces, Matoro and Jaller have transparent bones that really set off their colors in a way the 2015 Toa don't, and Hewkii comes with a chain and his upper leg armor is upside down.

 

The Inika may be clone builds, but they're certainly not exact replicas of one another in the parts department. Matoro, Nuparu and Hewkii all have differentiations (Nuparu's claws count, and so do his feet) in their proportions, however minor. Even Kongu and Jaller share different proportions, if only in the feet regions.

 

So no, the Inika have far more than zero differences in body proportions alone amongst members, however slight those changes may be.

 

I was referring to skeleton proportions and actual differences in assembly there, rather than to the thickness of arms, feet, or torsos. But I definitely should have worded it better, and that's a mistake on my part. The Toa Inika were definitely a step up from the Metru and Hordika when it came to things like armor and color variations. But they were all the exact same height, and their limbs were all the exact same length, and their shoulder joints were all the exact same width, and they all had the exact same posture, which is what I was trying to get at.

 

By contrast, none of those factors are exactly the same across all six of the 2015 Toa, and the actual build differences between them aren't nearly as formulaic as many of the differences between the Toa Inika (which in most cases just meant them having one of two different options for particular parts of their body like torso armor, lower arms, and feet and combining those options in different ways). So I think the new Toa are closer in spirit to the Mahri than to the Inika.

Edited by Aanchir
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Hopefully they'll add variety to the design. The Toas all look pretty similar as of now, compared to the variety in G1 Toa Teams (post 2006).

Are you serious?

 

I was never 100% happy with any G1 Toa Team as far as sets were concerned. They were always either clones (with near-identical parts, proportions, and builds) or completely lacking any sort of visual unity (the Toa Mahri relied solely on tubes and blasters to convey their affiliation, and the Phantoka and Mistika had slightly more unity as far as color schemes were concerned, but only among their particular group of three). The new Toa have unifying features (like their chest patterns and the general unified look granted by the CCBS), but their builds, proportions, color schemes, and armor configurations are more diverse than ever before.

 

Yeah I'm serious. The new Toa are more alike than you say in build. Different proportions are basically the same bone and shell pieces in a different length. Not to mention they all use the exact same feet except for Onua. With the exception of gearboxes and shoulder armors, they all follow the same scheme, and I'm left struggling to find a reason to buy them besides to own the main cast (mind you, I am going to buy them all, I just don't know why, I want to like them but idk). If anyone is a new fan, what would be their inclination to buy the sets if they're all so similar? They don't really have any attachment to the characters yet.

 

Really, if old-school fans like us could be convinced to collect the Toa Metru who were all completely identical builds except for two being taller than the others, or the Toa Hordika and Toa Inika who literally had zero differences in their body proportions between team members, then it's silly to say that the differences in the new Toa aren't substantial enough for new fans to care.

 

Zero differences in body proportions between the Inika? Yeah, no. For the most part they were similar, but to say that they have zero differences in body proportions simply isn't true. Matoro, Nuparu and Hewkii shared the "bulky" build, Jaller and Kongu had a "streamlined" build and Hahli have a combination of the two. There were two sets of feet amongst the Toa as well, three having one kind and three having another. And if you want variation between members, sure: Nuparu had claws and a shoulder-mounted blaster. Kongu and Hahli have melded pieces, Matoro and Jaller have transparent bones that really set off their colors in a way the 2015 Toa don't, and Hewkii comes with a chain and his upper leg armor is upside down.

 

The Inika may be clone builds, but they're certainly not exact replicas of one another in the parts department. Matoro, Nuparu and Hewkii all have differentiations (Nuparu's claws count, and so do his feet) in their proportions, however minor. Even Kongu and Jaller share different proportions, if only in the feet regions.

 

So no, the Inika have far more than zero differences in body proportions alone amongst members, however slight those changes may be.

 

By "proportions" he meant the actual measurements that determine a figure's stature—things like arm and leg length, shoulder width, torso height, etc. They used multiple torso armor solutions and weapons, but none of those changed those basic body proportions at all. I suppose "waistline" and "foot length" could count as proportions if you want to be anal about it, but I've literally never seen that considered when discussing the overall proportions of Bionicle sets.

Except that torso armor variants affect more than just waistline. Kongu, Jaller and Hahli looked more streamlined from the longer armor length and sleek endings. In contrast, the armor used by Matoro, Nuparu and Hewkii give a more bulky, muscular appearance that was also more "exposed" than the former. Frankly, I'm not even sure where "waistline" even comes into play here. These are entire torso pieces, not specialized fat bulge pieces LEGO made for a Homer Simpson Ultrabuild. I'm not sure about you, but I've definitely seen people taking into account torso armor pieces when it comes to proportions, particularly when it comes to the Breakout torso armor. CCBS torso armor shells are literally the exact same thing as the Inika armor pieces except with different shaping and connection point/s.

 

I've also seen people take foot proportions into account when discussing sets like Axonn, Brutaka and Roodaka. And I'm sure there's going to be far more to come once more people realize Skull Slicer uses the mini Kaiju feet.

 

 

 

Really, if old-school fans like us could be convinced to collect the Toa Metru who were all completely identical builds except for two being taller than the others, or the Toa Hordika and Toa Inika who literally had zero differences in their body proportions between team members, then it's silly to say that the differences in the new Toa aren't substantial enough for new fans to care.

Zero differences in body proportions between the Inika? Yeah, no. For the most part they were similar, but to say that they have zero differences in body proportions simply isn't true. Matoro, Nuparu and Hewkii shared the "bulky" build, Jaller and Kongu had a "streamlined" build and Hahli have a combination of the two. There were two sets of feet amongst the Toa as well, three having one kind and three having another. And if you want variation between members, sure: Nuparu had claws and a shoulder-mounted blaster. Kongu and Hahli have melded pieces, Matoro and Jaller have transparent bones that really set off their colors in a way the 2015 Toa don't, and Hewkii comes with a chain and his upper leg armor is upside down.

 

The Inika may be clone builds, but they're certainly not exact replicas of one another in the parts department. Matoro, Nuparu and Hewkii all have differentiations (Nuparu's claws count, and so do his feet) in their proportions, however minor. Even Kongu and Jaller share different proportions, if only in the feet regions.

 

So no, the Inika have far more than zero differences in body proportions alone amongst members, however slight those changes may be.

 

I was referring to skeleton proportions and actual differences in assembly there, rather than to the thickness of arms, feet, or torsos. But I definitely should have worded it better, and that's a mistake on my part. The Toa Inika were definitely a step up from the Metru and Hordika when it came to things like armor and color variations. But they were all the exact same height, and their limbs were all the exact same length, and their shoulder joints were all the exact same width, and they all had the exact same posture, which is what I was trying to get at.

 

By contrast, none of those factors are exactly the same across all six of the 2015 Toa, and the actual build differences between them aren't nearly as formulaic as many of the differences between the Toa Inika (which in most cases just meant them having one of two different options for particular parts of their body like torso armor, lower arms, and feet and combining those options in different ways). So I think the new Toa are closer in spirit to the Mahri than to the Inika.

 

Limbs all the exact same length? What about Nuparu's claws? They add a relatively significant amount of length onto his arms.

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I was referring to skeleton proportions and actual differences in assembly there, rather than to the thickness of arms, feet, or torsos. But I definitely should have worded it better, and that's a mistake on my part. The Toa Inika were definitely a step up from the Metru and Hordika when it came to things like armor and color variations. But they were all the exact same height, and their limbs were all the exact same length, and their shoulder joints were all the exact same width, and they all had the exact same posture, which is what I was trying to get at.

 

By contrast, none of those factors are exactly the same across all six of the 2015 Toa, and the actual build differences between them aren't nearly as formulaic as many of the differences between the Toa Inika (which in most cases just meant them having one of two different options for particular parts of their body like torso armor, lower arms, and feet and combining those options in different ways). So I think the new Toa are closer in spirit to the Mahri than to the Inika.

 

Limbs all the exact same length? What about Nuparu's claws? They add a relatively significant amount of length onto his arms.

Personally I thought of those claws more as tools/weapons than as a part of his body. And in any case, when I refer to limb length I'm usually thinking about the length from hip to ankle or shoulder to wrist, not things like the length of a character's fingers.

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Like others have said, it's bound to happen! The current versions of the Toa are already masterful (no pun intended), combining the best aspects of their several iterations throughout the years. It will be interesting to see how they will be modified in coming years. I'm expecting LEGO to experiment with many different concepts, and I have no doubt the end result will be solid.

 

-NotS

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The Masters are getting probably upgrades. Personally, I'd like to see the designs on the masters' chest to be printed on the shells and masks. They're neat designs and they add to a more tribal feel, which I like (can we get them on t-shirts?). New armor molds would be nice, and I'm glad we're getting a new one in the summer wave. Also, Lewa could have more neck articulation. New weapons would be nice; I'm just not sure how they should upgrade each master. More trans colours for bones and eyes. And a price drop. I get that plastic is not as cheap as it once was, but $20 for a single toa is definitely pushing it (which is also why I haven't bought any G2 sets yet). If they were all $15, that'd be more reasonable, considering they all have around 90 pieces (except Onua and Pohatu, the biggest and smallest).

 

Or we could just get a big tub/box of parts and LEGO would let us upgrade the existing toa to our hearts' content. :)

Woah, T-shirts with those designs would be awesome. It could have the Toa's name in Matoran language written in small text underneath it too.

Someone should totally make those and put them on redbubble. 

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