Which version of Teridax in Metru Nui is canon ?

[Zidonaro]

This should be a simple question... What I'm asking is what representation of Teridax in Metru Nui is the correct one: The one from The LOMN(The same from MOL just with wings) or the Ultimate dume set.

 

Personally, I think I would go with the UD set, as his look in LOMN was just due to budget constraints, but I've never read Time Trap, so I'm not really sure.

 

[SPIRIT]

Well he's a shapeshifter so he can look however he wants.  Probably his Metru Nui form is most representative of him being at full power (at least prior to taking over the Giant Robot).

[Lyichir]

Is "both" an option? Really I've never been able to be totally fussed about "canon" depictions of a character, because in most cases there is no supreme canon as far as depictions are concerned. Sites like BS01 that try to offer ranked "tiers" cf canon end up with stupid decisions like the idea that the 2006 "Turaga Lhikan" promo set is the most canon depiction of the character, despite the fact that that set was never designed with the character in mind and only a postmortem retcon made it so.

 

So, in the case of Makuta's Metru Nui depiction, take your pic. As far as I'm concerned, the depiction in the movies is "canon" to the movies, and the depiction in the sets is "canon" to the sets. Beyond that, there's nothing to be gained by ranking one against the other (or against your own depiction—never forget that Lego is a creative toy).

[Sharnak the Bohrok Lord]

I personally see movie appearances as "more canon" than the sets themselves. You can see that they're biomechanical and looks like they would actually exist in their world compared to just copying the sets. *cough*lookingatyouTLR*cough*

 

That said, I believe "Ultimate Dume" is what he actually looked like in official canon. If you ask a LEGO employee what a character looks like they'll likely point to the set itself. All depictions of characters are based on sets, so the sets hold the highest precedent. The sole exceptions seem to be Turaga Dume, for some reason, and minor things Vezon's shield and Spiriah's... matoran-ish... thing.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Sharnak the Bohrok Lord

[Dorek]

The problem is we get told that sets are the most canon, which in case of movies isn't precisely true.

 

The honest answer is "both".

 

The problem is we get told that sets are the most canon, which in case of movies isn't precisely true.

 

The honest answer is "both".

 

Is "both" an option? Really I've never been able to be totally fussed about "canon" depictions of a character, because in most cases there is no supreme canon as far as depictions are concerned. Sites like BS01 that try to offer ranked "tiers" cf canon end up with stupid decisions like the idea that the 2006 "Turaga Lhikan" promo set is the most canon depiction of the character, despite the fact that that set was never designed with the character in mind and only a postmortem retcon made it so.

The problem isn't so much that we HAVE to, it's that we get told to. If we ranked actual physical depictions, we wouldn't have the eclectic image mix of sets, comics, movie forms, etc. that we do. But the story is the story; Greg is the one who ultimately dictated what went in the story, so it's trying to work around that (and the invariable mistakes, retcons, etc.) that these so-called "tiers" come from.

 

Please don't think that the Turaga Lhikan debacle is reflective of organization principles

Edited March 17, 2015 by Dorek

[bonesiii]

The movie forms are more canon in most cases.

 

With Terry, the only real complications that I recall are that the wings don't really look like Nivawk's wings which he'd just absorbed (and Makuta shapeshifting is relatively slow, but we don't know that there wasn't time to change the superficial details to a style Makuta liked better), and the mask (that's a trickier issue and I'm not sure if the set vs. movie one, offhand, has ever been called more canon -- I personally tend toward the set in that case, although the flip-around alternate idea in the set is evidence it may be meant as representative of shapeshifting so not meant as a single normal shape...).

 

Note too that the UD set is one of the uglier/clunkier sets among the G1 line, and it's highly unlikely anybody at LEGO looked at that and said "yep, that's gotta be the main canon!"

 

I see some misconceptions/issues in the other replies, so here's a summary of how it worked:

 

First, remember that sets are representations of the characters that have limits of how plastic must hold together, what LEGO pieces happen to be available at a good cost, etc. While movie forms have budgetary and other constraints too, in general they're freer to be closer to what the story team imagines is true in-story. What people often confuse for "sets are more canon" is actually more complicated -- more like "if the movie form flatly contradicts the set representation, the set's version is more canon."

 

The standard example is that canonically the Rahaga would fly by standing on their Rhotuka, whereas the movie depiction gives them folding, built-in helicopter blades (and no Rhotuka launcher). Since there's no set representation of that, and there is of the Rhotuka launcher, that is more canon. (But it also means there "should" be a movie version of the Rhotuka launcher, which would undoubtedly look more like the ones the Toa Hordika had, not the plastic Rhotuka launcher, and it definitely wouldn't have the zip-tie thingy for human hands to pull. )

 

Second, it's true that there are "boths" -- but this is not contrary to having one be "more" canon.

 

In other words, there's a "closest to what the story team has in mind" version, which is a patchwork of bits from many story sources, working around constraints that each source had, and there's also the "movie universe plus comic universe" etc. multi-canons idea.

 

Most of the time, though, the "closest" version of canon is what people are asking when they ask "what's most canon", so there's really no need to read into that any kind of rule against "both". It's just that these are true in different senses. This is basically a way to recognize that multiple versions of the Bionicle vision are (usually) equally valid (barring logic errors), and at the same time recognize that there's a value to trying to understand a single coherent universe since that is what real life is like.

 

With Terry, these things mean that it's actually possible the UD set has a few details that would be considered more canon than the movie, but the "real" canon would be something in between.

 

Possible artwork fodder.

[N.S.M.8]

I justify this one by saying that they are THE SAME FORM, but that it is just a really poor set.  

I don't know if that's official, but it is the easiest explanation. 

[Xabla]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/ea/ea0a4ab0d33860211d318ff962d827a51848633bcbb6db0b024097670c5482df.jpg

 

Is what people should do.

[Dorek]

The standard example is that canonically the Rahaga would fly by standing on their Rhotuka, whereas the movie depiction gives them folding, built-in helicopter blades (and no Rhotuka launcher). Since there's no set representation of that, and there is of the Rhotuka launcher, that is more canon. (But it also means there "should" be a movie version of the Rhotuka launcher, which would undoubtedly look more like the ones the Toa Hordika had, not the plastic Rhotuka launcher, and it definitely wouldn't have the zip-tie thingy for human hands to pull. )

Don't forget their headlamps!

[Zidonaro]

I remember BS01 saying that TSO recognized parts of Nidhiki and Krekka on Teridax in Time Trap

[fishers64]

I never saw the UD set, so I just took the movie version as canon and rolled with it.

[The 1st Shadow]

I remember BS01 saying that TSO recognized parts of Nidhiki and Krekka on Teridax in Time Trap

That would have come from Teridax just recently absorbing those beings, and still trying to sort it all out.

[Zidonaro]

 

I remember BS01 saying that TSO recognized parts of Nidhiki and Krekka on Teridax in Time Trap

That would have come from Teridax just recently absorbing those beings, and still trying to sort it all out.

 

Yes, but what I was trying to say is that if this is true, then the UD set would be more close to the canon.

[The 1st Shadow]

 

 

I remember BS01 saying that TSO recognized parts of Nidhiki and Krekka on Teridax in Time Trap

That would have come from Teridax just recently absorbing those beings, and still trying to sort it all out.

 

Yes, but what I was trying to say is that if this is true, then the UD set would be more close to the canon.

 

Not really. Look at the figure. It has the same colors and parts as those sets, yes. But look at it from a story perspective--what did TSO see? He didn't see an angled blue liftarm and say "Oh, that's part of Krekka," or a silver blade piece and say "Oh, that's one of Nidhiki's legs." No, he was seeing design elements from them. Compare the movie versions. Teridax's Titan form has a sort of web on the bottom of his chest armor that is straight off of Krekka. His legs (and shoulders?) have the Rahkshi spine, which, in the movie, could be seen as a design element from Nidhiki's legs and abdomen. Terry's hands are also of a similar design to Krekka's. TSO would have been seeing these things, not the individual plastic parts that WE see in the sets.

[Sharnak the Bohrok Lord]

 

 

 

I remember BS01 saying that TSO recognized parts of Nidhiki and Krekka on Teridax in Time Trap

That would have come from Teridax just recently absorbing those beings, and still trying to sort it all out.

 

Yes, but what I was trying to say is that if this is true, then the UD set would be more close to the canon.

 

Not really. Look at the figure. It has the same colors and parts as those sets, yes. But look at it from a story perspective--what did TSO see? He didn't see an angled blue liftarm and say "Oh, that's part of Krekka," or a silver blade piece and say "Oh, that's one of Nidhiki's legs." No, he was seeing design elements from them. Compare the movie versions. Teridax's Titan form has a sort of web on the bottom of his chest armor that is straight off of Krekka. His legs (and shoulders?) have the Rahkshi spine, which, in the movie, could be seen as a design element from Nidhiki's legs and abdomen. Terry's hands are also of a similar design to Krekka's. TSO would have been seeing these things, not the individual plastic parts that WE see in the sets.

 

Agreed. It seemed like they took some liberties in Nihdiki's and Kreka's movie models to better connect with the pre-existing Teridax model.

 

Still, I thought the sets were highest precedent when it came to canon. I know some forms of media were allowed to take liberties, but weren't others not allowed to as well? I recall that the comics had to depict the characters as accurate to the sets as they could. Yes, artists had their own styles, but they still drew them as they appeared as sets. It's kind of weird; other companies, like Marvel Comics, were allowed some liberties with their licence characters. *shrug*

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

I like to think there was a mixture. Makuta Teridax in my eyes looked like a tall demon with body parts from others being fused to his own while the coloring might have been a bit different so as to make it all look more cohesive. Quite the disturbing picture (you can also see this in his 2001, where i like to think the pile of junk is actually the pieces of corpses of foes he has killed in the past, then he joins said bones to himself into a swirling vortex of darkness, morphing them to suit his needs).

[Archon~]

Movie version is canon. Technically so is the set, but less precise. A similar thing can be seen with Glatorian weapons in the movie: the unpowered ones were presented differently from the Ignika upgraded ones, while they were identical in set.

 

But then again, movies have gotten weapons and traits (Onewa's and Toa Hordika's weapons, Rahaga copters) wrong in the past, but I feel that the overall bionechanical depiction of characters in movies is the more accurate one.

[Sir Kohran]

Still, I thought the sets were highest precedent when it came to canon. I know some forms of media were allowed to take liberties, but weren't others not allowed to as well? I recall that the comics had to depict the characters as accurate to the sets as they could. Yes, artists had their own styles, but they still drew them as they appeared as sets. It's kind of weird; other companies, like Marvel Comics, were allowed some liberties with their licence characters. *shrug*

 

The comics are largely action-driven and can afford to portray the sets as they are, whereas the movies are more story-driven and so parts of the characters' bodies were made more organic to make them more expressive and relatable.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

The Ultimate Dume set WAS supposed to represent his winged titan form. That's why the exclusive set came with a similar Kraakhan mask to the Takutanuva set. Of course, combining pieces of Nidhiki, Krekka, and Nivawk to make a winged titan is going to have a very different aesthetic than the 2003 Teridax. Keeping him close to his MoL form for the movie was done for consistency as we already knew Makuta's appearance prior, and changing it entirely would have made things confusing for viewers.

 

-NotS

[LegoSWfan]

LOMN and MOL for me.

 

UD was just a combo pack.

[Regitnui]

Does anyone beside me think they could have upped Teridax' fear factor considerably simply by having him have no face when he removed Turaga Duke's mask in LOMN? The Mask of Shadows would have then materialised out of the empty yawning pit where his face should have been.

[fishers64]

Does anyone beside me think they could have upped Teridax' fear factor considerably simply by having him have no face when he removed Turaga Duke's mask in LOMN? The Mask of Shadows would have then materialised out of the empty yawning pit where his face should have been.

Uh, the movie was supposed to be for kids. That would probably be a no-no even by the hissing Rahkshi standards of MoL.

[LegoSWfan]

The rahkshi wernt scary...

[fishers64]

The rahkshi wernt scary...

Personally, I'm inclined to agree. However, I recall in my earlier days on BZPower someone admitted to being scared by them, and it's why the movie was given a PG rating instead of the usual G (quite a feat, considering the Incredibles was rated G, leaving it a considerable double standard).

 

LoMN was given the same rating because of Makuta's takeover/grimdark ending, and WoS pushed that rating, for, ah, Vortixx reasons.  

[Katuko]

 

Does anyone beside me think they could have upped Teridax' fear factor considerably simply by having him have no face when he removed Turaga Duke's mask in LOMN? The Mask of Shadows would have then materialised out of the empty yawning pit where his face should have been.

Uh, the movie was supposed to be for kids. That would probably be a no-no even by the hissing Rahkshi standards of MoL.

 

Makuta appeared as floating red eyes in both films, so I don't think anyone would have been too scared to see a black smoke face behind Dume's mask; especially not compared to the more horrific worms, spiders, green gas/fog, and darkness they used in MoL and Web of Shadows.

[Dorek]

I would think it more had to do with their refusal to show maskless faces; when they find the real Dume, even though the book specifically mentions he does not have a mask (since that's the one Makuta is wearing, duh) the movie still shows him with the mask.

 

Part of it is identification purposes, and part of it is just consistency. Jaller and his broken mask is only shown from the back, for instance.

[Toa Kohron]

 

 

 

 

The rahkshi wernt scary...

Personally, I'm inclined to agree. However, I recall in my earlier days on BZPower someone admitted to being scared by them, and it's why the movie was given a PG rating instead of the usual G (quite a feat, considering the Incredibles was rated G, leaving it a considerable double standard).

 

LoMN was given the same rating because of Makuta's takeover/grimdark ending, and WoS pushed that rating, for, ah, Vortixx reasons.

"Kids" movies push boundaries all the time. The Bionicle movies were no different. When films are rated, the general public has to be kept in mind, not just a few people.

 

I'd like to point out though that The Incredibles WAS rated PG, and was the first Pixar film to be rated as such.

[LegoSWfan]

 

The rahkshi wernt scary...

 

Personally, I'm inclined to agree. However, I recall in my earlier days on BZPower someone admitted to being scared by them, and it's why the movie was given a PG rating instead of the usual G (quite a feat, considering the Incredibles was rated G, leaving it a considerable double standard).

 

LoMN was given the same rating because of Makuta's takeover/grimdark ending, and WoS pushed that rating, for, ah, Vortixx reasons.

Lol.