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Takua's Mask Before Pakari?


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So just wondering if there's ever been any sort of canonization or maybe a largely fan accepted theory as to what mask Takua wore before the pakari, since BS01 states:

 

 

His original Kanohi on Metru Nui was broken, and he acquired a powerless Pakari as a replacement, though the Pakari often came loose.

 

I personally don't want there to be some sort of canonization for the mask he wore on Metru-Nui, but I'm interested to see if there are any ideas considering I'd always assumed his mask was always the pakari. If there isn't, which one would you head-canon for it to be?

 

And please let's not bring this to Greg...

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Lets just use the universal default kanohi: the kanohi Hau. Done, and done!

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Well, what was the first non-legendary kanohi made in-universe, since we know he was the first matoran.

 

In all fairness, it is likely either a very elaborate version of a common mask, as the GBs are known for extra details, or a very plain, functional mask.

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Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Well, what was the first non-legendary kanohi made in-universe, since we know he was the first matoran.

 

When his memories were wiped & he was placed in Ta-Metru under the guise of being a Ta-Matoran, they may have given him a different Kanohi (or maybe not)...

 

But yeah it's hard to say, & I don't think anythings even been hinted about what Mask(s) he wore before that Pakari.

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I'm pretty sure it was a noble Pakari... But don't quote me on that, rather wait for fishers to come up with a GF quote confirming (or not) that. :P

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I headcanon it as a... Pakari.

 

No reason replacements can't occasionally be the same, after all. :P In fact, a few should be; it's unlikely every replacement would be different, and they see masks as faces, generally, so they should actually prefer to look for the same types.

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I've always liked to think that Takua wore a Matoran-level Avohkii before the Order got ahold of him, just for the sake of poetic irony. 

 

I think there's evidence that he wore a Pakari on Metru Nui - in the Toa Empire Alt. Universe Takanuva recognized himself on sight, which would have been slightly harder if he was wearing a different mask. (Given that main Takanuva only remembers his Mata Nui self...)

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And almost didn't reconise Jala, suggesting that masks play a major role in a matorans sense of self.

 

Maybe so, but given he had no(/few) memories when they arrived on Mata Nui, replacing his Mask with a similar one might not have been that important, or rather more important etc, but they might not have had the luxury to be picky at that point?

 

 

& I'm kinda sketchy about using info from a Alt'Verse, because where things diverge and the results of those is all rather arbitrary, so it might be indicative but it also might not be, regardless of which is more likely!  :eyeboggle:

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

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The same issues arise in the transfandom about altverses, at which point, and how much, do they diverge from the "home" universe?

 

Did Takua wear a Pakari during his time in the home verse, or did events that lead to the creation of the Toa empire altverse cause him to wear a Pakari regardless of how the events of the home verse worked out.

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The same issues arise in the transfandom about altverses, at which point, and how much, do they diverge from the "home" universe?

 

Did Takua wear a Pakari during his time in the home verse, or did events that lead to the creation of the Toa empire altverse cause him to wear a Pakari regardless of how the events of the home verse worked out.

Yeah, it's possible that the Toa Empire divergence changed which mask he wore on Metru Nui. 

 

Not sure why it would, though - Occam's Razor would be that didn't change between universes, so I tend to go with it. Of course, he could have switched masks to try to evade Tuyet, but it seems that he ended up it jail before that could even happen, so yeah. I don't know. 

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Not sure why it would, though - Occam's Razor would be that didn't change between universes, so I tend to go with it. Of course, he could have switched masks to try to evade Tuyet, but it seems that he ended up it jail before that could even happen, so yeah. I don't know. 

 

Occam's Razor would indicate that it's likely, but I think it's cute when we try and rationalise the G1 Bionicle multiverse; alt verses go any which way the plot demands and they require absolutely zero dedicated framing because they pull of the 'prime' 'verse, so we could (for example) assume everything is the same except where otherwise shown et cetera, but at the end of the day a short look at another 'verse gives no real insight; the way they were used when Takanuva was travelling was cheap, not necessarily bad, but still it's hardly anything with much thought put into, so assuming the simplest might seem more logical except that someone like Greg is not unlikely to canonise something entirely arbitrary & not the most simple or likely;

 

So why assume anything at all? If you're gonna you might as well headcanon want you want regardless of whether that would be the simplest assumption or not; it's hardly going to be irrational compared to other stuff inside G1 Bionicle!

~ Sophistry: A way to be antidisuncorrect. ~


 


 


In a decade you might convince maybe a small tribe of people.


In a decade you might also conquer one million km2 of land,


& in over a thousand years you might have over a billion followers.


 


I like building things. Please don't break the big ones.


& evidential philosophies that dare to extrapolate beyond


an individual's direct experience aren't easily built.

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Thought I'd chip in by mentioning that the reason for the information regarding why that bit of information on Takua's mask exists.  It's due to the fact that the writers of Mask of Light wanted some foreshadowing that Takua was supposed to wear the Avohkii, so they wrote a few scenes where his mask is loose.  Greg later retconned the idea of Takua getting a replacement mask that didn't quite fit right.

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The only reason I can think of would be to explain his odd combination of colors. It's not even a good reason either, since it's better explained by the fact that he's an Av-Matoran and -- knowing his personality -- probably chose them deliberately way back when.

 

On top of that, there's also the fact that he's literally the oldest Matoran in existence -- the prototype upon which all the others were based. Of course he's not going to work perfectly all the time -- of course he'll develop some minor faults over the millenia, such as his mask occasionally going askew.

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The only reason I can think of would be to explain his odd combination of colors. It's not even a good reason either, since it's better explained by the fact that he's an Av-Matoran and -- knowing his personality -- probably chose them deliberately way back when.

 

If you're referring to his blue Pakari, it being a replacement doesn't make sense either because everyone on Metru Nui thought of him as a Ta-Matoran, so there'd be no reason to give him a mask of a non-Ta colour. Unless there was a shortage of Ta-Matoran masks, but given that mask makers were apparently all Ta-Matoran themselves that seems unlikely.

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the Pakari went blue because it wasn't locked into a certain colour. His original mask (and presumably the rest of his body) was locked into a 'ta-matoran' disguise. When he was given a pakari (presumably grey, like most non-worn masks), it went blue instead of red, likely favouring the colours he wore as a Av-Matoran when he was built.

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Thought I'd chip in by mentioning that the reason for the information regarding why that bit of information on Takua's mask exists.  It's due to the fact that the writers of Mask of Light wanted some foreshadowing that Takua was supposed to wear the Avohkii, so they wrote a few scenes where his mask is loose.  Greg later retconned the idea of Takua getting a replacement mask that didn't quite fit right.

 Just a nitpick here, but what did you mean was retconned? I'm not aware of a retcon there. Could be forgetting something though. Did you mean decided?

 

Does anyone know the point of this replacement mask aspect? It just seems like a repeat of what happened with Jala at the end of the second movie.

 I think SPIRIT just said it a few posts up -- to explain the poor fit. :) And masks changing due to replacements makes sense for... well... masks. :P (And Jaller isn't the only one.)

 

Although in my headcanon it's more like losing a Pakari, and picking a Pakari (that doesn't fit well), over some other mask (that might fit well, but doesn't preserve his 'face').

 

 

The only reason I can think of would be to explain his odd combination of colors. It's not even a good reason either, since it's better explained by the fact that he's an Av-Matoran and -- knowing his personality -- probably chose them deliberately way back when.

 

If you're referring to his blue Pakari, it being a replacement doesn't make sense either because everyone on Metru Nui thought of him as a Ta-Matoran, so there'd be no reason to give him a mask of a non-Ta colour. Unless there was a shortage of Ta-Matoran masks, but given that mask makers were apparently all Ta-Matoran themselves that seems unlikely.

Greg confirmed blue is within the valid range of colors for fire. Many types of fire burn blue when they're at the hottest. A fitting choice given that it's about light, which is his actual element. :) It does make sense. (And no, using his being an Av-Matoran to explain it in-story wouldn't make sense, because the Order was trying to hide them, and he forget he was one. Besides, the blue is paint.)

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Thought I'd chip in by mentioning that the reason for the information regarding why that bit of information on Takua's mask exists.  It's due to the fact that the writers of Mask of Light wanted some foreshadowing that Takua was supposed to wear the Avohkii, so they wrote a few scenes where his mask is loose.  Greg later retconned the idea of Takua getting a replacement mask that didn't quite fit right.

 Just a nitpick here, but what did you mean was retconned? I'm not aware of a retcon there. Could be forgetting something though. Did you mean decided?

"Retcon" in that "randomly getting a new mask" was not the initial reason for that plot point.

 

From the dictionary: Retcon -- the common situation in fiction where a new story "reveals" things about events in previous stories, usually leaving the "facts" the same (thus preserving continuity) while completely changing their interpretation. For example, revealing that a whole season of "Dallas" was a dream was a retcon.

 

While the term is more often used hyperbolically to refer to when an author changes something without maintaining continuity, it can refer to changing any sort of detail in the story after the fact.  Takua had a loose mask to foreshadow his destiny as Toa before Greg came up with the explanation that it was because the mask was a replacement.

 

Sorry if that wasn't clearly stated.  Couldn't think of another term to use.

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From the dictionary: Retcon -- the common situation in fiction where a new story "reveals" things about events in previous stories, usually leaving the "facts" the same (thus preserving continuity) while completely changing their interpretation. For example, revealing that a whole season of "Dallas" was a dream was a retcon.

 

While the term is more often used hyperbolically to refer to when an author changes something without maintaining continuity, it can refer to changing any sort of detail in the story after the fact.

Well, you learn something new every day. I always thought the definition of a retcon was the latter.

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From the dictionary: Retcon -- the common situation in fiction where a new story "reveals" things about events in previous stories, usually leaving the "facts" the same (thus preserving continuity) while completely changing their interpretation. For example, revealing that a whole season of "Dallas" was a dream was a retcon.

 

While the term is more often used hyperbolically to refer to when an author changes something without maintaining continuity, it can refer to changing any sort of detail in the story after the fact.

Well, you learn something new every day. I always thought the definition of a retcon was the latter.

 

Ditto,

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Does anyone know the point of this replacement mask aspect? It just seems like a repeat of what happened with Jala at the end of the second movie.
I think SPIRIT just said it a few posts up -- to explain the poor fit.

 

Why would it be a poor fit just because it's a replacement? If it's a rule that replacement masks don't fit properly, shouldn't Jaller's mask also be loose seeing as his Hau was also a replacement?

 

 

 

Greg confirmed blue is within the valid range of colors for fire. Many types of fire burn blue when they're at the hottest. 

 

Why have we never seen any other Ta-Matoran with blue features?

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Does anyone know the point of this replacement mask aspect? It just seems like a repeat of what happened with Jala at the end of the second movie.

I think SPIRIT just said it a few posts up -- to explain the poor fit.

Why would it be a poor fit just because it's a replacement? If it's a rule that replacement masks don't fit properly, shouldn't Jaller's mask also be loose seeing as his Hau was also a replacement?

Greg confirmed blue is within the valid range of colors for fire. Many types of fire burn blue when they're at the hottest.

Why have we never seen any other Ta-Matoran with blue features?

Fire can also burn green, white and purple. Doesn't mean they're valid colours for Ta-Matoran. Strictly speaking, Le-matoran should have transparent armour, were that the case.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Greg confirmed blue is within the valid range of colors for fire. Many types of fire burn blue when they're at the hottest. 

 

Why have we never seen any other Ta-Matoran with blue features?

 

Because Lego didn't want to confuse the precious kiddies they wanted to sell to, taking them to be idiots who will think like toddlers. :plain: Kids are smarter then you think, Lego! Speaking of that, I still don't understand how you can take the time to create a story and not be bothered to advertise it.

 

 

 

Can I ask a quick question that anyone can answer: how was the time-slip achieved? I know what it is and what happened, just not how it was done.

 

 

 

EDIT:

Fire can also burn green, white and purple. Doesn't mean they're valid colours for Ta-Matoran. Strictly speaking, Le-matoran should have transparent armour, were that the case.

 

I can imagine that they would be side colors, not a main color like the different variations of red, and probably rare at that. Takua is special because he is an av-matoran and probably changed his color before having a droid-standard memory wipe (I still call him Takua, as Takanuva sounds weird; let the stoning commence!).

 

With le-matoran, I would imagine they would have translucent greens and teal. :P

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Does anyone know the point of this replacement mask aspect? It just seems like a repeat of what happened with Jala at the end of the second movie.
I think SPIRIT just said it a few posts up -- to explain the poor fit.

 

Why would it be a poor fit just because it's a replacement? If it's a rule that replacement masks don't fit properly, shouldn't Jaller's mask also be loose seeing as his Hau was also a replacement?

That's what I'm saying! :P

 

The mask not fitting properly was a movieism to foreshadow Takua's destiny to wear the Mask of Light.  The fact that Greg decided after the fact that Takua has a replacement mask at all has no context without knowing that.

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Why would it be a poor fit just because it's a replacement? If it's a rule that replacement masks don't fit properly, shouldn't Jaller's mask also be loose seeing as his Hau was also a replacement?

I bolded the part in error here -- nobody ever said all replacement masks don't fit.

 

As for why, evidently it was a bit too large. They're held on magnetically, but what keeps them from tilting awkwardly and the like is presumably the exact fit between the face and the mask, much like LEGO pieces fitting together. Just like how the magnets on a fridge don't magically stay aligned Monk-style - they may tilt if bumped, etc.

 

Why have we never seen any other Ta-Matoran with blue features?

Because it's rare. :)

 

That's what I'm saying! :P

 

The mask not fitting properly was a movieism to foreshadow Takua's destiny to wear the Mask of Light.  The fact that Greg decided after the fact that Takua has a replacement mask at all has no context without knowing that.

?? Your previous post seemed to clear up my confusion (that yes, you just meant it was decided later), but now I'm back to being confused by this one. If you were trying to say what Kohran said there, the problem with that logic is, aside from being a strawman (since nobody said there was any such rule, or ever implied it), it's a false dichotomy, that either all replacements must fit, or all must not fit. That makes no sense -- why can't some happen to be good fits and others not be, as simple logic would suggest?

 

Also not sure how you get there from the thing about the out-story movie purpose and when it was decided. Could you clarify?

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Takua's mask never "fit" him in the Mask of Light film to foreshadow the fact that he was going to be the Toa of Light - the Mask of Light was the mask "made" for him, not his Pakari. It's one of those silly literary hidden meanings or whatever that I often can't stand. I doubt it has any real story meaning, and probably is just one of those "artistic license" things.

 

There's even a deleted scene where his whole mask falls right off in front of the Kohlii crowd! That's like having your pants falling down for a Matoran, isn't it?

 

And please let's not bring this to Greg...

 

Did you know that telling someone not to ask Greg increases their temptation to do so by 85%?

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