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Is Gen 2 really meant for a younger age?


Onvermel

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(I haven't read every post in this topic so sue me, but here's my opini-- thing I can argue for)

Personally, I think that criticizing the tone or detail of the G2 storyline at this point is a little unfair when you look at how much story content has actually been produced so far.

If you look at the same point in G1's ten year lifetime, the lighthearted tone is pretty much the same (maybe a little less cheesy :P ). As for the amount of story released: while I have a few issues with the the episodes, the lack of characterisation in some instances etc., you have to remember that the entire reason G2 was cancelled was because it had got too complicated for new fans  and consumers to easily start enjoying it (this especially applied to specialised terms in the story), causing the sales to go down. This is a problem that I think Lego is doing a better job handling, even if it means some "dumbing down".

And another thing that you have to take into consideration is that the main target for the product isn't the fans - it's the general consumers, the ones who don't know about all the specialised terms and the characterisation and the release schedule and voice acting of the online episodes, and probably don't care.

Anyway, just my two cents~

 

 

 

 

That isn't evidence it is my opinion. (←Why does it seem as if everyone doesn't notice the word opinion? Maybe I should type it twice so everyone notices it.)

"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to what you can argue for.”

 

Wrong. 

 

...You did actually read the article, right?

 

Could you please stop trying to turn this in to a heated debate by putting down every little thing I say and just have a friendly discussion about it?  Thanks!

 

Whether or not they're 'putting down' everything you say, they do have a point :P

Edited by 000
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Kathok

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(I haven't read every post in this topic so sue me, but here's my opini-- thing I can argue for)

Personally, I think that criticizing the tone or detail of the G2 storyline at this point is a little unfair when you look at how much story content has actually been produced so far.

If you look at the same point in G1's ten year lifetime, the lighthearted tone is pretty much the same (maybe a little less cheesy :P ). As for the amount of story released: while I have a few issues with the the episodes, the lack of characterisation in some instances etc., you have to remember that the entire reason G2 was cancelled was because it had got too complicated for new fans  and consumers to easily start enjoying it (this especially applied to specialised terms in the story), causing the sales to go down. This is a problem that I think Lego is doing a better job handling, even if it means some "dumbing down".

And another thing that you have to take into consideration is that the main target for the product isn't the fans - it's the general consumers, the ones who don't know about all the specialised terms and the characterisation and the release schedule and voice acting of the online episodes, and probably don't care.

Anyway, just my two cents~

 

 

 

 

That isn't evidence it is my opinion. (←Why does it seem as if everyone doesn't notice the word opinion? Maybe I should type it twice so everyone notices it.)

"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to what you can argue for.”

 

Wrong. 

 

...You did actually read the article, right?

 

Could you please stop trying to turn this in to a heated debate by putting down every little thing I say and just have a friendly discussion about it?  Thanks!

 

Whether or not they're 'putting down' everything you say, they do have a point :P

 

"...You did actually read the article, right?"

 

I did and I think he wasted his time(I am talking about the guy who "made" that "saying").

A signature is supposed to be this:

 

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and BTW https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

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Is Gen 2 really meant for a younger age?

Short answer: Yes.

Edited by Marvel Nui
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I'd really love to see a stop to "Bionicle is X because Kids are Y" posts unless you're going to actually link to some hard fact on that. Throwing around this "cell phone age" nonsense is extremely insulting to this generation of kids.

Well, I do think there ARE differences that have to be considered between now and when BIONICLE began. But they can't just be boiled down to generational differences — even adults today engage with media differently than they did fifteen years ago. Sites like Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube didn't exist in 2001. If you wanted to share a video with your friends you basically had to do it either via e–mail (2002–2003 BIONICLE.com story updates even had a link to share them via e–mail) or in person. And LEGO didn't have nearly as many ways to reach out to fans with new content unless those fans specifically took time out of their schedules to visit the LEGO website.

 

Today, people in general are more likely to learn things about the brands they follow via their Facebook and Twitter news feeds. As such, it makes more sense to optimize BIONICLE media for sharing and casual viewing, presenting it in short chunks that people can enjoy without a lengthy interruption to their social media routines. Also, a lot of people today use the Internet via small-screen devices like tablets and smartphones, so the new webisodes are optimized for that type of viewing. Even so, the new webisodes are not that different than the old 2002 and 2003 webisodes. The biggest difference is that those were a secondary story medium, telling the story of the Matoran while the comics told the story of the Toa. But today, the Internet is the primary way that most people will engage with the brands they follow, and as such it makes sense to tell the primary story through that sort of shareable media.

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Sarcastically putting things in quotation marks does not make them any less valid.

 

But lets get back on topic, shall we?

I wasn't doing them "sarcastically".  Besides, I'm not even "sarcastic" enough to being "sarcastic" like my Mom and Brother(Mocmaker is my brother).  And it sometimes is valid according to me in some cases, but your right.  Agreed for getting back on topic.

A signature is supposed to be this:

 

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and BTW https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

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Sarcastically putting things in quotation marks does not make them any less valid.

 

But lets get back on topic, shall we?

I wasn't doing them "sarcastically".  Besides, I'm not even "sarcastic" enough to being "sarcastic" like my Mom and Brother(Mocmaker is my brother).  And it sometimes is valid according to me in some cases, but your right.  Agreed for getting back on topic.

you're*

 

Do not post spam please.

Edited by Makaru
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Sarcastically putting things in quotation marks does not make them any less valid.

 

But lets get back on topic, shall we?

I wasn't doing them "sarcastically".  Besides, I'm not even "sarcastic" enough to being "sarcastic" like my Mom and Brother(Mocmaker is my brother).  And it sometimes is valid according to me in some cases, but your right.  Agreed for getting back on topic.
you're*

 

I'm what?  "I" don't understand.  What do you "mean" anyway?

 

He was correcting your mispelling.

Edited by Makaru

A signature is supposed to be this:

 

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and BTW https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

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Sarcastically putting things in quotation marks does not make them any less valid.

 

But lets get back on topic, shall we?

I wasn't doing them "sarcastically".  Besides, I'm not even "sarcastic" enough to being "sarcastic" like my Mom and Brother(Mocmaker is my brother).  And it sometimes is valid according to me in some cases, but your right.  Agreed for getting back on topic.
you're*

 

I'm what?  "I" don't understand.  What do you "mean" anyway?

 

What do you mean by that*

 

See above

Edited by Makaru
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In case Makaru's edits aren't getting it across clearly enough: drop the semantics and get back on topic, please. 

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Sarcastically putting things in quotation marks does not make them any less valid.

 

But lets get back on topic, shall we?

I wasn't doing them "sarcastically".  Besides, I'm not even "sarcastic" enough to being "sarcastic" like my Mom and Brother(Mocmaker is my brother).  And it sometimes is valid according to me in some cases, but your right.  Agreed for getting back on topic.

you're*

 

Do not post spam please.

 

That was not spam.

 

 

 

Sarcastically putting things in quotation marks does not make them any less valid.

 

But lets get back on topic, shall we?

I wasn't doing them "sarcastically".  Besides, I'm not even "sarcastic" enough to being "sarcastic" like my Mom and Brother(Mocmaker is my brother).  And it sometimes is valid according to me in some cases, but your right.  Agreed for getting back on topic.
you're*

 

I'm what?  "I" don't understand.  What do you "mean" anyway?

 

He was correcting your mispelling.

 

There was no mispelling.  Have you guys heard of a comic book called "Big Nate"?  Maybe you'll know where I got that from and REALize it.

A signature is supposed to be this:

 

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and BTW https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

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There isn't really any BIONICLE news to talk about though. :P

 

well, this topic is for whether B2 is for younger kids than B1 or not, (i think?)

 

personally I feel B1 and B2 have the same age of audience, but B2 is a different flavor, for a different time. (none of that lowered attention span statistics stuff though, seriously.)

 

they're just two flavors of Bionicle. is all. (from what i've gathered, anyway. :t)

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There isn't really any BIONICLE news to talk about though. :P

 

well, this topic is for whether B2 is for younger kids than B1 or not, (i think?)

 

personally I feel B1 and B2 have the same age of audience, but B2 is a different flavor, for a different time. (none of that lowered attention span statistics stuff though, seriously.)

 

they're just two flavors of Bionicle. is all. (from what i've gathered, anyway. :t)

 

For some reason I thought I was in the BIONICLE general discussion... my mistake.. X'D

 

But yeah, they always had the same audience. You can't sustain a toy line without children being the core audience. That's common fact. (Collectible figures are a whole different ball game, since they aren't produced in the same number and are made for the purpose of being expensive and niche)

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Considering it's stupidly simplistic story, I'd say yes, it is.

Just saying this without any evidence is the stupid thing. From my point of view, the story itself is no less simple than the first half of the 2001 story. Sure, you might say that the in-story names and terms aren't as complex, but you're talking about the actual plot.

What happened in the first half of 2001? The toa crash land, meet the villagers, start fighting the bad guys and go searching for their masks of power.

What's happening in the first half of 2015? The toa crash land, meet the villagers, start fighting the bad guys and go searching for their masks of power.

So what exactly are you talking about?

Edited by 000
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Kathok

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I just wish there was more media to enjoy. I know it's the beginning of the first year, but a few side-story episodes would help.

Agreed. While I think that the structure of the plot is just as simplistic as 2001's, the amount of story and characterisation is lacking.

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Kathok

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I just wish there was more media to enjoy. I know it's the beginning of the first year, but a few side-story episodes would help.

 

This is sort of my feeling as well. I've loved what story we've seen; I just wish there were more of it! A lot of the tidbits we've seen in descriptions of the story seem like they'd make a great foundation for new stories. Imagine Pohatu trying to hide his fear of the dark from the other Toa to try and keep up his appearance of fearlessness, and the Toa having to help him overcome that fear. Or Lewa getting mind-controlled by a Skull Spider and the other Toa having to free him. Or the Protector of Stone helping Pohatu to find the Golden Mask of Stone in the vast and treacherous deserts of the Region of Stone.

 

Of course, part of the reason for these many story tidbits that haven't been used in the animations (and other details like the personalities of the Protectors that haven't even been addressed) might be to encourage kids to make up their OWN stories in the BIONICLE universe. One frequent criticism of story-driven LEGO themes like BIONICLE and Ninjago is that they are too scripted, having a strict official sequence of events instead of leaving room for fans to come up with their own adventures through imaginative play. So that might be part of what the 2015 BIONICLE story strategy is trying to address.

 

Even the 2001 BIONICLE story kept things fairly open-ended compared to later years: we only ever got to see small snippets of the Toa's quest for the masks, which left plenty of room for fans to make up their own adventures to fill in the gaps. The 2015 story may be trying to emulate that more open-ended storytelling style. Certainly it doesn't seem so hung up on establishing a singular "canon", instead showing multiple versions of how the Toa obtain their Golden Masks of Power in the various comics and animations.

Edited by Aanchir
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I just wish there was more media to enjoy. I know it's the beginning of the first year, but a few side-story episodes would help.

Agreed. While I think that the structure of the plot is just as simplistic as 2001's, the amount of story and characterisation is lacking.

 

Don't forget that we're only 5 months in, and in August, we're getting a novel (and an activity book w/ a mask!). I wouldn't be too quick to judge the story when it hasn't even been portrayed in all its forms yet.

 

EDIT: That's the second time today I've been Ninja'd.

Edited by Cwog
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I just wish there was more media to enjoy. I know it's the beginning of the first year, but a few side-story episodes would help.

Agreed. While I think that the structure of the plot is just as simplistic as 2001's, the amount of story and characterisation is lacking.

 

Don't forget that we're only 5 months in, and in August, we're getting a novel (and an activity book w/ a mask!). I wouldn't be too quick to judge the story when it hasn't even been portrayed in all its forms yet.

 

EDIT: That's the second time today I've been Ninja'd.

 

Got to be faster on the clicker there my friend. 

 

 

I just wish there was more media to enjoy. I know it's the beginning of the first year, but a few side-story episodes would help.

 

This is sort of my feeling as well. I've loved what story we've seen; I just wish there were more of it! A lot of the tidbits we've seen in descriptions of the story seem like they'd make a great foundation for new stories. Imagine Pohatu trying to hide his fear of the dark from the other Toa to try and keep up his appearance of fearlessness, and the Toa having to help him overcome that fear. Or Lewa getting mind-controlled by a Skull Spider and the other Toa having to free him. Or the Protector of Stone helping Pohatu to find the Golden Mask of Stone in the vast and treacherous deserts of the Region of Stone.

 

Of course, part of the reason for these many story tidbits that haven't been used in the animations (and other details like the personalities of the Protectors that haven't even been addressed) might be to encourage kids to make up their OWN stories in the BIONICLE universe. One frequent criticism of story-driven LEGO themes like BIONICLE and Ninjago is that they are too scripted, having a strict official sequence of events instead of leaving room for fans to come up with their own adventures through imaginative play. So that might be part of what the 2015 BIONICLE story strategy is trying to address.

 

Even the 2001 BIONICLE story kept things fairly open-ended compared to later years: we only ever got to see small snippets of the Toa's quest for the masks, which left plenty of room for fans to make up their own adventures to fill in the gaps. The 2015 story may be trying to emulate that more open-ended storytelling style. Certainly it doesn't seem so hung up on establishing a singular "canon", instead showing multiple versions of how the Toa obtain their Golden Masks of Power in the various comics and animations.

 

See this I am inline with. I mean most of the arguments I see revolve around the entirety of Gen1 over the limited story we have so far of gen2. Also many of the opposing arguments are from fans since Gen1 back in 2001. Though some may have come in later. We do have to remember that we the Gen1 fans are not as young as we were some years prior. So our belief that the story and related media appears "dumber" to us because we have all aged and matured since then. Many of us are in college or high school and our inherent intelligence has spiked with that time.

 

Think of it like how we all watched Barney the Dinosaur and Sesame Street. You can deny it all you want be we all know we've done it. We enjoyed it, and even looked forward to it coming on either in the morning before school or as soon as we got home. The same is true of other kid shows and media. Turn them shows on today after battling your finals midterm or that beat down you got today from work and see if you still feel the same way.

 

Anyway I am willing to suspect that you think little of the content of these shows today. Thoughts like "How could I have watched this" or "Wow that was lame I use to think this was cool" Sadly this seems to be a similar case here. Many as stated above by other posters forget that this is a toy line. Toy lines are designed for kids. As suspected by the age restrictions on the packages. So while Lego has been doing this for years we have not.

 

I am willing to suspect with the change of media in which we receive out entertainment has a major effect on the means in how Lego has presented it to us. Like was stated Facebook YouTube and alike were not openly around back then so the most common was TV(Enter movies) and the Bionicle website. Now we have Facebook, Twitter instagram, etc... So that is how the story is presented(Mask hunt, etc...). Adding in that some of these media have a limited character cap. Lighter is better. Sadly the argument that attention spans are dwindling is a strong one. While yes we have long winded media and some may argue that with everyone constantly looking at their phones their attention isn't smaller just refocused. This I to can agree with. When I hear that people can have conversations via their phone while in the same room and nary utter a word.

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IMHO, it's looking that way. But knowing lego, they'll find a way to tie it into an older audience on the side, as well as keeping it for kids.

Isn't that what they did with the new builds? Especially LoSS.

 

 

I guess you could say that, seeing as how difficult it was for me as an older Bionicle fan (still not telling my age :P) to comprehend how to hold it in order to build it.

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Was the LoSS hard to build? I hadn't noticed. There was only one small filler piece that I didn't even notice I did or rather didn't do in my actual build over my LDD version. Yeah somehow I managed to correctly build it in LDD but missed that one inconsequential piece in my actual build.

"A stranger will always be a stranger unless you give them a chance."

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Was the LoSS hard to build? I hadn't noticed. There was only one small filler piece that I didn't even notice I did or rather didn't do in my actual build over my LDD version. Yeah somehow I managed to correctly build it in LDD but missed that one inconsequential piece in my actual build.

Lord of Skull Spiders is definitely harder to build than your typical BIONICLE set. Like with a lot of Technic sets, there's a lot of not knowing exactly what you're building until you've built it, and a lot of flipping sections around in order to match them to the instruction booklet. The parts themselves are mostly basic Technic, and as such they don't automatically telegraph their intended function the way a Toa's torso beam or gearbox would. And the order in which you connect parts together is very important, unlike a Toa where the gearbox is the only part where that has a huge impact. All in all, it's not terribly hard if you're experienced in following those kinds of instructions, but it gives builders a lot more opportunities to get confused or make mistakes than your typical Toa set.

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LoSS was a brilliant build. Unfortunately, that's its main plus point in my opinion. It's not much fun to play with once built.

 

But getting back to why I'm actially commenting; G2 is dumbing down compared to the end of G1, but we're not looking at the entirety of G2 like we are woth G1. We don't even know that G2 will last long enough to build up as deep/conplicated a world as G1. While there could be more story, we're forgetting there's two (at least) other heavy story-based themes; Chima and Ninjago. Back in '01, Bionicle was the only story-based line. Now we have three or four all being made and having to be maintained.

 

Anyone who wants to complain about that can try watching ninjago, legends of chima and the new animations simultaneously on the same screen, because that's what buying Lego is like for kids now. Do you want the giant lion, the red robot or the ninja?

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Well on the plus side and minus is that Chima is at an end so there are no more need for resources to be spent on story arch there.

Plus: More time for Bionicle story development.
Minus: No more Chima story development.

 

I know I can see your point about what set and story to follow as I try to do so with all of them and I am an adult. I've never actually purchased a Ninjago set to date though several peaked my interest.

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"A stranger will always be a stranger unless you give them a chance."

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Tahu is NOT a robot. He doesn't even look like one.

Who said he was?

"A stranger will always be a stranger unless you give them a chance."

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Oh Regitnui you are so busted.... :lookaround:

I think he was referring to the concept of what some may think who are not really followers of the franchise. At first glance somebody may see Tahu and being Lego product will think "red robot".

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"A stranger will always be a stranger unless you give them a chance."

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I just wish there was more media to enjoy. I know it's the beginning of the first year, but a few side-story episodes would help.

 

This is sort of my feeling as well. I've loved what story we've seen; I just wish there were more of it! A lot of the tidbits we've seen in descriptions of the story seem like they'd make a great foundation for new stories. Imagine Pohatu trying to hide his fear of the dark from the other Toa to try and keep up his appearance of fearlessness, and the Toa having to help him overcome that fear. Or Lewa getting mind-controlled by a Skull Spider and the other Toa having to free him. Or the Protector of Stone helping Pohatu to find the Golden Mask of Stone in the vast and treacherous deserts of the Region of Stone.

 

Of course, part of the reason for these many story tidbits that haven't been used in the animations (and other details like the personalities of the Protectors that haven't even been addressed) might be to encourage kids to make up their OWN stories in the BIONICLE universe. One frequent criticism of story-driven LEGO themes like BIONICLE and Ninjago is that they are too scripted, having a strict official sequence of events instead of leaving room for fans to come up with their own adventures through imaginative play. So that might be part of what the 2015 BIONICLE story strategy is trying to address.

 

Even the 2001 BIONICLE story kept things fairly open-ended compared to later years: we only ever got to see small snippets of the Toa's quest for the masks, which left plenty of room for fans to make up their own adventures to fill in the gaps. The 2015 story may be trying to emulate that more open-ended storytelling style. Certainly it doesn't seem so hung up on establishing a singular "canon", instead showing multiple versions of how the Toa obtain their Golden Masks of Power in the various comics and animations.

 

 

I feel that's an extremely good point. What I enjoyed about Bionicle 2015 so far is that the island of Okoto is so open-ended, allowing anyone to just MOC away a character and imagine them being part of that universe. This really encourages imagination, and I enjoy that aspect immensely.

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Do you want the giant lion, the red robot or the ninja?

Looks like someone forgot to type a response before pressing the post button.

 

Anyway, of course Gen 2 is meant for a younger age, they're a bigger audience for lego to profit from and they've made the new story less complex, but simpler to understand and follow in order to reach out to the children their sets are aimed at.

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The post where I quoted Regitnui was in response to the request for who I was responding to with my "Tahu is not a robot" comment. :lookaround:

 

Long day, guys.

 

Anyway, not sure what makes Tahu 2015 look like a robot. Tahu 2001 looks somewhat robot-like, but Tahu 2015 looks like a dude with a surfboard. He doesn't look like a robot at all.

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Well to be fair if you are only basing your aspect of "he's not a robot because he has a surf board" Then I guess I shouldn't direct you to this link:

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/33000/Robot-Surfer--33141.jpg

 

Also I think you are slightly contradicting yourself.

"Tahu 2001 looks somewhat robot-like" "but Tahu 2015 looks like a dude with a surfboard"

 

Then right away you say

"He doesn't look like a robot at all."

 

How can you say someone looks robot-like and then say he doesn't look like a robot at all. I mean "If it looks like a duck; quacks like a duck" then is it a fox? That's would be like saying that creature looks dog like but doesn't look anything like a dog. What? You can't really have it both ways. Either it does or doesn't. Tahu's Mechanical features and Lego concept makes him robotic in nature to the average viewer.

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The post where I quoted Regitnui was in response to the request for who I was responding to with my "Tahu is not a robot" comment. :lookaround:

 

Long day, guys.

 

Anyway, not sure what makes Tahu 2015 look like a robot. Tahu 2001 looks somewhat robot-like, but Tahu 2015 looks like a dude with a surfboard. He doesn't look like a robot at all.

From a layman's viewpoint, the Toa look like robots. As did the Hero Factory figures.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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