What you don't like in G2 ?

[LegoSWfan]

no, not the same.

 

and im always the minority when it comes to tfprime, I hated that show. and animated.

 

you are right about one thing, technic Tahu is perfect  

[MarkSurge9411]

 

 

I'm with Tntkirill on this one. He makes valid points.

And he does it so eloquently, too.

 

It's heartening to see the staunch defenders of a children's toyline's maturity argue their points in such a well spoken manner.

Hey! It's not just a toy line, it's OUR toy line! And we will defend it from this new scourge who dares to take its name.

 

While you're at it, all those transformers reboots (Prime, Animated, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Energon) that are attacking G1. You might want to have a look at those.

no, not the same.

 

and im always the minority when it comes to tfprime, I hated that show. and animated.

 

you are right about one thing, technic Tahu is perfect

And here we see the reason I dislike most of the Bionicle fanbase. 

G1 (for anything) = Perfect.

G2 (for anything) = OHMERGERD IT'S HIDEOUS!

 

Funny thing is, the G2 sets are actually BETTER than the Toa Mata. Of course, old Bionicle's titans were definitely better than these sets, but that's because they were titans. And Prime surpassed G1 in nearly everyway (not saying G1 was bad).

[LegoSWfan]

I could make a list of everything wrong with prime, but we are talking about bionicle.

 

I can see that your a bionicle "noob" as they are called, instead of bashing bio1 fans, go enjoy the company of those who like bio2, just like you.

[MarkSurge9411]

Yes, because that pin make all the difference, now it's all "snap and your done".

Introducing the new revolutionary system. BBS is designed to be better than CCBS in every way. Are you tired of no detail? Do you wish the system was more complex? Are you tired of how sturdy the pieces are? Then we have the thing for you! BBS has miniscule details, brittle pieces so they'll break after one usage, and best of all, you have to put a Technic piece in the bone and snap the armor on!

 

Yeah no I fail to see how BBS was any less complex.

I could make a list of everything wrong with prime, but we are talking about bionicle.

 

I can see that your a bionicle "noob" as they are called, instead of bashing bio1 fans, go enjoy the company of those who like bio2, just like you.

Of course Prime had things wrong with it, but you can't blame them, it's hard to animate stuff like that. We are talking about animation, right?

 

And you have no idea how much I know about Gen 1 already.

[LegoSWfan]

oh, if only it worked out like that...

 

no, I was not talking about primes animation, but its stories and characters.

[MarkSurge9411]

oh, if only it worked out like that...

 

no, I was not talking about primes animation, but its stories and characters.

You mean the characters I actually cared about (R.I.P Dreadwing) and stories which had me too anxious to finish the episodes without saying "Please don't let xxxx die."?

 

Also, many people (yourself not included) have said Prime was an amazing reboot of the Transformers series. And yet it had the same sort of aspect Gen 2 of Bionicle has: Same characters with tweaked (or in Wheeljack's and Pohatu's case, majorly changed) personalities, many throwbacks to the original (POF on Tahu's back, Tahu lavaboarding, an island in danger, etc) and so on and so forth. What's to stop Gen 2 of Bionicle from accomplishing the same feat? Sure, it'll never be as dark as the original, but it could end up (more or less) having the same story at Gen 1. Already we have six heroes on a mysterious island who have gone on a quest for masks, and they have to save the island from many perils to come. Heck, in 2018 we could be seeing the rebirth of the Toa Metru! We need to give it time. 

[LegoSWfan]

again, I don't care for tf prime, so can we get back on track?

[MarkSurge9411]

again, I don't care for tf prime, so can we get back on track?

I just did. Didn't you see the whole "Bionicle 2015 could be good" post I just made?

[LegoSWfan]

good.

[fishers64]

Uh, I like Bionicle G2. 

 

(Of course, I am an ignorant noob who started collecting Lego action figures with Hero Factory, and shamelessly admit to taking a BIG interest in them BECAUSE of the CCBS system. That doesn't make my taste invalid though. )

 

(also me and my brother have some Bionicle G1 lying around it was cool don't judge me. I just have a higher interest in CCBS. *evil mad scientist face*) 

[LegoSWfan]

well good for you and your brother  I personally never cared for hero factory.

[believe victims]

Sure, it'll never be as dark as the original

Which can only be a good thing.

[MarkSurge9411]

 

Sure, it'll never be as dark as the original

Which can only be a good thing.

 

Yeah, what could be better than a storyline where you know no one will die? That guy looks like he's going to die? Don't worry, he's still alive (that goes for LOSS to. I have a feeling he ain't dead). You want interesting characters like the Piraka? Too bad!

 

Yeah no I think I'll take the darker story, where I don't know if a character may or may not die thanks.

 

And no, Hero Factory doesn't count. Several characters were killed in the books.

Edited May 1, 2015 by ToaMarkSurge

[believe victims]

 

 

Sure, it'll never be as dark as the original

Which can only be a good thing.

 

Yeah, what could be better than a storyline where you know no one will die? That guy looks like he's going to die? Don't worry, he's still alive (that goes for LOSS to. I have a feeling he ain't dead). You want interesting characters like the Piraka? Too bad!

 

Yeah no I think I'll take the darker story, where I don't know if a character may or may not die thanks.

 

And no, Hero Factory doesn't count. Several characters were killed in the books.

 

 

You seem to have made a fundamental error in thinking. You seem to believe that a story's "darkness" is inherently linked to its quality. I have seen enough terrible dark movies to tell you that is definitely not the case.

 

You also may be confusing dark with mature. Characters die in stories I would not describe as dark. Multiple characters die in Disney's The Princess and the Frog, yet you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would call that dark. Same with Avatar: the Last Airbender, Transformers: Animated, The LEGO Movie, etc. They also all have tension (which I can only assume is what you're referring to by wondering about the fate of the characters) and interesting characters. It's almost like something can have fun, light, and an absence of guns and casual disregard for life and still be a good story.

 

I don't want a dark story. I want a well-written story.

[MarkSurge9411]

 

 

 

Sure, it'll never be as dark as the original

Which can only be a good thing.

 

Yeah, what could be better than a storyline where you know no one will die? That guy looks like he's going to die? Don't worry, he's still alive (that goes for LOSS to. I have a feeling he ain't dead). You want interesting characters like the Piraka? Too bad!

 

Yeah no I think I'll take the darker story, where I don't know if a character may or may not die thanks.

 

And no, Hero Factory doesn't count. Several characters were killed in the books.

 

 

You seem to have made a fundamental error in thinking. You seem to believe that a story's "darkness" is inherently linked to its quality. I have seen enough terrible dark movies to tell you that is definitely not the case.

 

You also may be confusing dark with mature. Characters die in stories I would not describe as dark. Multiple characters die in Disney's The Princess and the Frog, yet you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would call that dark. Same with Avatar: the Last Airbender, Transformers: Animated, The LEGO Movie, etc. They also all have tension (which I can only assume is what you're referring to by wondering about the fate of the characters) and interesting characters. It's almost like something can have fun, light, and an absence of guns and casual disregard for life and still be a good story.

 

I don't want a dark story. I want a well-written story.

 

What made Transformers bad? The lack of plot. In Bionicle, there were a lot less explosions, character development (Hahli went from timid and nervous about being a Toa to confident), characters you actually cared about died and didn't come back (so no, Lhikan doesn't count), etc.

 

*Tries imagining Bionicle as fun and light*

In the words of Tahu, "What is that thing?!"

And when did I say something needs to have guns to have a good story, or a casual disregard for life? I said the latter made the characters more interesting.

 

You seem to be implying that Greg was a poor writer, in which case I join Vezon in laughing maniacly. Greg was possibly the best thing to ever happen to Bionicle. He expanded upon the world of Bionicle, and not only did he give us stories about the main characters, but also introducing new ones and taking ones we already knew and giving them adventures of their own that weren't in the main story.

[believe victims]

*Tries imagining Bionicle as fun and light*

In the words of Tahu, "What is that thing?!"

 

"That thing" is the most beloved Bionicle media ever created, MNOG. I fail to see how it's so terrible that it took the time to be fun.

 

You seem to be implying that Greg was a poor writer, in which case I join Vezon in laughing maniacly. 

 

Then you might also join Vezon in being obnoxious and insufferable, which he was under Greg's hand in later years.

 

Whether or not Greg is a good writer isn't really the issue. It's the poor attempt at darkness that's at question here. The fact that Greg had the misfortune of being the writer during that time is irrelevant. He was hardly the sole mind behind the plunge.

 

Again, none of the things you're listing as positive traits are inherent to a dark story. They're part of a well-written story (which Bionicle wasn't), and part of a mature story (which Bionicle also wasn't), but if they were inherent to darkness, then Transformers couldn't have been a terrible film! It was so dark and edgy, it had to be great! All that mindless violence and grit and guns and lack of color... *swoon*

[LegoSWfan]

toamark, I agree, accept on the greg and transformer bits. go read idws transformer comics and tell me it has no plot. and greg was more of a liability than an asset.

[MarkSurge9411]

 

*Tries imagining Bionicle as fun and light*

In the words of Tahu, "What is that thing?!"

 

"That thing" is the most beloved Bionicle media ever created, MNOG. I fail to see how it's so terrible that it took the time to be fun.

 

You seem to be implying that Greg was a poor writer, in which case I join Vezon in laughing maniacly. 

 

Then you might also join Vezon in being obnoxious and insufferable, which he was under Greg's hand in later years.

 

Whether or not Greg is a good writer isn't really the issue. It's the poor attempt at darkness that's at question here. The fact that Greg had the misfortune of being the writer during that time is irrelevant. He was hardly the sole mind behind the plunge.

 

Again, none of the things you're listing as positive traits are inherent to a dark story. They're part of a well-written story (which Bionicle wasn't), and part of a mature story (which Bionicle also wasn't), but if they were inherent to darkness, then Transformers couldn't have been a terrible film! It was so dark and edgy, it had to be great! All that mindless violence and grit and guns and lack of color... *swoon*

 

1: Games are designed to be fun. And I would hardly call the majority of MNOG "light".

2: Before or after you?

The only thing LEGO influenced was the characters Greg used in the books. Other than that, it was all his "fault" that Bionicle turned bad.

See that plane so far above your head? No? Too bad. The planes name is "My Point", and you completely missed it.

Bionicle had everything I listed (characters you cared about sacraficing themselves, character development, a lot less explosions), which you say are part of mature and well-written stories. Since Bionicle had said things, it had a well-written and mature story. You also seem to be implying Bionicle was a bunch of mindless violence after 2005, which it wasn't.

2006: Toa fighting the Piraka who were after the Ignika to rule the universe.

2007: Toa fighting the Barraki who were after the Ignika.

2008: Toa fighting the Makuta to save Karda Nui and reawaken Mata Nui.

2009: Glatorian battling Skrall and Dark Hunters to keep Spherus Magna safe.

2010: Mata Nui battling Teridax to save the Matoran universe.

toamark, I agree, accept on the greg and transformer bits. go read idws transformer comics and tell me it has no plot. and greg was more of a liability than an asset.

I didn't say other Transformers media was mindless, just the movies. And without Greg, Bionicle 2001 would'nt've been nearly as in depth as it is today.

[believe victims]

1: Games are designed to be fun. And I would hardly call the majority of MNOG "light".

 

And I would hardly call it dark, as it bothered to show more sides of life than gritty, wartorn worlds full of heroes who just wanna pump people fulla lead.

 

The only thing LEGO influenced was the characters Greg used in the books. Other than that, it was all his "fault" that Bionicle turned bad.

 

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how Bionicle was written. Greg did not work alone. There was an entire story team that worked together to cook up each year's story. Don't correct me if you don't actually know the right answer.

 

Bionicle had everything I listed (characters you cared about sacraficing themselves, character development, a lot less explosions), which you say are part of mature and well-written stories. Since Bionicle had said things, it had a well-written and mature story.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa, you're getting ahead of yourself, not the least because you assume I cared about the barely-characterized Matoro's sacrifice to any significant degree. (Admittedly, this was affected by the fandom's obnoxious reaction to it.) I didn't say those were the only elements (A cohesive plot is important), nor that Bionicle necessarily exemplified them to their best degree (Honestly, few characters went beyond two dimensions). It had plot holes, loose ends, needless complication, and an ever-changing core cast of characters that ensured none of them would ever see their full written potential. It was snake-like and confusing, and sometimes didn't even adhere to suspension of disbelief (sinking ice???). It was by no means well-written and certainly wasn't mature, and no amount of ham-fisted references to death and deadliness were going to make it more mature.

 

I wasn't saying later Bionicle was completely mindless violence (though Transformers definitely was), but its obsession with death really dragged it down into terrible writing. The Barraki couldn't go two lines without spouting some "witty" one-liner about how deadly they were. Pridak was even covered in blood, which ended up being so over-the-top for a children's toyline they had to call it patterns instead.

[jmflem]

I'm a bit rusty on the story, since I haven't read it in so long. Don't get me wrong though, I used to be completely obssesed with the comics. I remember Metru Nui being one of my favorite parts of the story (excluding Hordika), and that was also one of Bionicle'a darkest times. It even seemed a bit trippy at some points too IIRC But yeah that was a great part of the story, a d was also quite dark.

[fishers64]

 

toamark, I agree, accept on the greg and transformer bits. go read idws transformer comics and tell me it has no plot. and greg was more of a liability than an asset.

I didn't say other Transformers media was mindless, just the movies. And without Greg, Bionicle 2001 would'nt've been nearly as in depth as it is today.

 

Greg didn't even show up as a major book writer/storyline force until 2003. Most of 2001's depth came from MNOG (which Greg wasn't a part of).

 

You can argue that Greg wrote the comics, but those were as surface as ever, merely depicting a bunch of Toa vs. Rahi battles. MNOG was what fleshed out the lives of the villagers and actually established the villain Teridax. 

 

2003's Tales of the Masks contributed to 2003's depth, and from 2004 onwards Greg's writing was what gave the story depth, but attributing 2001's greatness to Greg isn't really fair IMO. 

[MarkSurge9411]

 

1: Games are designed to be fun. And I would hardly call the majority of MNOG "light".

 

And I would hardly call it dark, as it bothered to show more sides of life than gritty, wartorn worlds full of heroes who just wanna pump people fulla lead.

 

The only thing LEGO influenced was the characters Greg used in the books. Other than that, it was all his "fault" that Bionicle turned bad.

 

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how Bionicle was written. Greg did not work alone. There was an entire story team that worked together to cook up each year's story. Don't correct me if you don't actually know the right answer.

 

Bionicle had everything I listed (characters you cared about sacraficing themselves, character development, a lot less explosions), which you say are part of mature and well-written stories. Since Bionicle had said things, it had a well-written and mature story.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa, you're getting ahead of yourself, not the least because you assume I cared about the barely-characterized Matoro's sacrifice to any significant degree. (Admittedly, this was affected by the fandom's obnoxious reaction to it.) I didn't say those were the only elements (A cohesive plot is important), nor that Bionicle necessarily exemplified them to their best degree (Honestly, few characters went beyond two dimensions). It had plot holes, loose ends, needless complication, and an ever-changing core cast of characters that ensured none of them would ever see their full written potential. It was snake-like and confusing, and sometimes didn't even adhere to suspension of disbelief (sinking ice???). It was by no means well-written and certainly wasn't mature, and no amount of ham-fisted references to death and deadliness were going to make it more mature.

 

I wasn't saying later Bionicle was completely mindless violence (though Transformers definitely was), but its obsession with death really dragged it down into terrible writing. The Barraki couldn't go two lines without spouting some "witty" one-liner about how deadly they were. Pridak was even covered in blood, which ended up being so over-the-top for a children's toyline they had to call it patterns instead.

 

1: Point missed, but I don't care.

2: So Matoro donning the Ignika knowing full well what would happen to him, and his final act bing him teleporting his friends to safety, was poorly written?

3: Just how many of the books did you read? The characters were certainly not two dimensional.

4: Nothing is safe from plot holes. Bionicle is no exception.

5: The loose ends are because Bionicle ended prematurely.

6: Once again, everything has needless complications.

7: So if we had the same cast every year it'd be better? Yeah no. The reason Hero Factory was able to do it was because they were robots. They could be upgraded into something else. The Toa were biomechanical, meaning they had to be changed naturally. If we only had one Toa team, there would've been a lot of excuses as to how they changed every time.

8: So I take it character development and plot twists also don't make a good story?

9: They were full of themselves, like nearly any villain.

10: They were patterns. Never once had they been blood.

[LegoSWfan]

toamark, you simply said transformers. you did not specify the movies. sorry.

[believe victims]

Point missed, but I don't care.

 

It had a fart joke. How can that, at least, not deem moments of it as "light"?

 

5: The loose ends are because Bionicle ended prematurely.

Except it didn't. It ended with the planet reformed, the Toa's destinies realized, and everything overall happy. All the loose ends were the result of pointless plot threads tacked on at the end that had no actual bearing on the story. They were, in fact, written with full knowledge that the main story had been brought to a close. Those loose ends have nothing to blame but overeagerness to extend the story past its end.

 

6: Once again, everything has needless complications.

 

But nothing nearly to the extent that Bionicle did. By the end of the story, you had maybe 100 characters who did something to the plot to keep track of.

 

So if we had the same cast every year it'd be better? Yeah no. 

 

Yeah, Harry Potter was just ruined by its insistence to focus on Harry Potter all seven books.

 

So I take it character development and plot twists also don't make a good story?

 

It's not a black and white issue. There can be poorly-written character development and plot twists.

 

They were patterns. Never once had they been blood.

 

This is the second time someone has said this and it is so mind-bogglingly perplexing I just have to ask how you can see bright red, splotchy patterns on a shark-like mouth and the blades of his weapons and never once stop and think, "Hey, I wonder if this is supposed to look like blood."

[MarkSurge9411]

 

Point missed, but I don't care.

 

It had a fart joke. How can that, at least, not deem moments of it as "light"?

 

5: The loose ends are because Bionicle ended prematurely.

Except it didn't. It ended with the planet reformed, the Toa's destinies realized, and everything overall happy. All the loose ends were the result of pointless plot threads tacked on at the end that had no actual bearing on the story. They were, in fact, written with full knowledge that the main story had been brought to a close. Those loose ends have nothing to blame but overeagerness to extend the story past its end.

 

6: Once again, everything has needless complications.

 

But nothing nearly to the extent that Bionicle did. By the end of the story, you had maybe 100 characters who did something to the plot to keep track of.

 

So if we had the same cast every year it'd be better? Yeah no. 

 

Yeah, Harry Potter was just ruined by its insistence to focus on Harry Potter all seven books.

 

So I take it character development and plot twists also don't make a good story?

 

It's not a black and white issue. There can be poorly-written character development and plot twists.

 

They were patterns. Never once had they been blood.

 

This is the second time someone has said this and it is so mind-bogglingly perplexing I just have to ask how you can see bright red, splotchy patterns on a shark-like mouth and the blades of his weapons and never once stop and think, "Hey, I wonder if this is supposed to look like blood."

 

1: I said it was mostly dark.

2: Kiina, Ackar, Mata Nui, and a few other characters were supposed to have gone through the maze on the Skrall shield and encounter the Elemental Lords. They would then travel to a planet inhabited by Dinobot-esque beings. So yes, Bionicle did end prematurely. Had it gone on, those loose ends would've been tightened.

3: You can't have six characters do everything alone.

4: Harry Potter revolves around Harry. Bionicle wasn't called Tanicle, because it doesn't revolve around just Tahu. Also, the Turaga would've had no backstory, and all those Matoran that were met in MNOG would've never had a purpose.

5: But they weren't. No one expected Teridax to take control just like that.

6: I had thought that, until I looked Pridak up. It wasn't blood. And even if it was, how would it've stayed their for all those years?

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

It wasn't blood. And even if it was, how would it've stayed their for all those years?

 

because... they toy makers wanted people to know he was a vicious sharkman that is constantly coated in fresh blood? that's always been my best guess. :0

[MarkSurge9411]

 

It wasn't blood. And even if it was, how would it've stayed their for all those years?

 

because... they toy makers wanted people to know he was a vicious sharkman that is constantly coated in fresh blood? that's always been my best guess. :0

 

If they were implying how vicious he was, why not do the same for the other Barraki?

[believe victims]

1: I said it was mostly dark.

 

No, it wasn't. The Le-Matoran threw a big party. Hafu carved a big statue of himself on the Chronicler's company's quest. The Rahi fight minigame is full of all sorts of little animation gags. Nobody dies, which is your big "this is definitely dark" signifier.

 

It's got serious moments, but I would never call MNOG mostly dark. It's got too much liveliness and color for that.

 

Kiina, Ackar, Mata Nui, and a few other characters were supposed to have gone through the maze on the Skrall shield and encounter the Elemental Lords. They would then travel to a planet inhabited by Dinobot-esque beings. So yes, Bionicle did end prematurely. Had it gone on, those loose ends would've been tightened.

 

That's a couple loose ends that were barely even presented. In fact, all but the element lords were wrapped up in alternate ways in the final story, so that's not really "loose ends" so much as "unused opportunity". The main storyline wrapped up just fine. And even if it hadn't, there still would have been loose ends, because Greg still slapped serials on the end that everyone thinks count as part of the main story rather than an afterthought.

 

You can't have six characters do everything alone.

 

I didn't say they had to. Side characters exist for a reason.

 

Harry Potter revolves around Harry. Bionicle wasn't called Tanicle, because it doesn't revolve around just Tahu.

 

Right, that's definitely how story names work. The Hunger Games didn't focus on Katniss, after a-- what? It did? Oh. It's almost like not being in the name of the story has no effect on whether or not a character is a protagonist.

 

and all those Matoran that were met in MNOG would've never had a purpose.

 

Side characters are a thing. They do things sometimes.

 

But they weren't. No one expected Teridax to take control just like that.

 

I didn't specify that that twist was poorly-written (though I don't think it singlehandedly makes Bionicle a well-written story, either) I do think that the character development was thin and far simpler than you make it out to be, though.

 

I had thought that, until I looked Pridak up. It wasn't blood. And even if it was, how would it've stayed their for all those years?

 

Again, you're missing the point. It was clearly intended to look like blood. That much is true. Seeing as it invoked that in you, it obviously succeeded. However, as this is a children's toy line, covering a character in blood is pushing it, so they're patterns. It's a semantics thing. It's clearly supposed to look like blood, but they say it isn't blood, so it technically isn't blood, even though it was obviously designed to look like blood.

 

 

 

It wasn't blood. And even if it was, how would it've stayed their for all those years?

 

because... they toy makers wanted people to know he was a vicious sharkman that is constantly coated in fresh blood? that's always been my best guess. :0

 

If they were implying how vicious he was, why not do the same for the other Barraki?

 

Not only would it have been useless on Kalmah, the other Barraki's animals don't have the same connection with blood that sharks do. You don't think of blood often in relation to electric eel, for example. Sharks, however, are notorious biters of flesh, and as a bonus have spectacular blood-sniffing skills. Therefore, if you're going to slap blood on a Barraki, it's gonna be the shark.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Dina Saruyama

[MarkSurge9411]

 

1: I said it was mostly dark.

 

No, it wasn't. The Le-Matoran threw a big party. Hafu carved a big statue of himself on the Chronicler's company's quest. The Rahi fight minigame is full of all sorts of little animation gags. Nobody dies, which is your big "this is definitely dark" signifier.

 

It's got serious moments, but I would never call MNOG mostly dark. It's got too much liveliness and color for that.

 

You can't have six characters do everything alone.

 

I didn't say they had to. Side characters exist for a reason.

 

Harry Potter revolves around Harry. Bionicle wasn't called Tanicle, because it doesn't revolve around just Tahu.

 

Right, that's definitely how story names work. The Hunger Games didn't focus on Katniss, after a-- what? It did? Oh. It's almost like not being in the name of the story has no effect on whether or not a character is a protagonist.

 

But they weren't. No one expected Teridax to take control just like that.

 

I didn't specify that that twist was poorly-written (though I don't think it singlehandedly makes Bionicle a well-written story, either) I do think that the character development was thin and far simpler than you make it out to be, though.

 

I had thought that, until I looked Pridak up. It wasn't blood. And even if it was, how would it've stayed their for all those years?

 

Again, you're missing the point. It was clearly intended to look like blood. That much is true. Seeing as it invoked that in you, it obviously succeeded. However, as this is a children's toy line, covering a character in blood is pushing it, so they're patterns. It's a semantics thing. It's clearly supposed to look like blood, but they say it isn't blood, so it technically isn't blood, even though it was obviously designed to look like blood.

 

1: Cause that's exactly what I said.

2: And that's what they had: Side characters that did other stuff.

3: Everyone, let's focus on the same six characters for ten years! What's this? You had plans for the Turaga and some of the Matoran to become Toa? Preposterous! Everyone loves the Toa Mata! And don't worry, we'll find excuses for them to change every year.

4: No matter which way you cut it, there was character development in Bionicle, and plenty of it. And Bionicle had many twists, not just Teridax taking over.

5: And the problem is....?

[believe victims]

You had plans for the Turaga and some of the Matoran to become Toa?

 

No, they didn't, until they decided to extend the line past 2003, and again for 2006. They didn't plan Bionicle's entire run in one go. As a toyline, it had to be prepared for cancellation; any year could have been its last. If it had performed poorly, Mata Nui would have awakened in 2001.

 

And that's what they had: Side characters that did other stuff.

Yes. Side characters. Not more main characters into a great big protagonist pile. That's not how you write a cohesive story.

 

And Bionicle had many twists, not just Teridax taking over.

 

Like the Ignika just plunging into Mahri Nui? Stellar writing, that.

 

The giant robot twist was one, of course, but then again, that was planned back in 2001, before all that glorious grimdark edginess you loved.

 

And the problem is....?

 

It's a symptom of the need for edge in later Bionicle that was contradicted by its limits as a children's toyline. They had a character slathered in blood, only it couldn't be blood because it was a children's toy, so instead it was patterns.

 

See also: "Mask of Life, Mask of Death Doom"

[LegoSWfan]

   s about we all calm down?

Edited May 1, 2015 by Decepticonwarrior

[MarkSurge9411]

 

You had plans for the Turaga and some of the Matoran to become Toa?

 

No, they didn't, until they decided to extend the line past 2003, and again for 2006. They didn't plan Bionicle's entire run in one go. As a toyline, it had to be prepared for cancellation; any year could have been its last. If it had performed poorly, Mata Nui would have awakened in 2001.

 

And that's what they had: Side characters that did other stuff.

Yes. Side characters. Not more main characters into a great big protagonist pile. That's not how you write a cohesive story.

 

And Bionicle had many twists, not just Teridax taking over.

 

Like the Ignika just plunging into Mahri Nui? Stellar writing, that.

 

The giant robot twist was one, of course, but then again, that was planned back in 2001, before all that glorious grimdark edginess you loved.

 

And the problem is....?

 

It's a symptom of the need for edge in later Bionicle that was contradicted by its limits as a children's toyline. They had a character slathered in blood, only it couldn't be blood because it was a children's toy, so instead it was patterns.

 

See also: "Mask of Life, Mask of Death Doom"

 

1: You need to understand sarcasm.

2: I still fail to see the problem. It's better than having the Toa Mata fight every single enemy, and emphasized the fact that they were not the only Toa.

3: Right, because I was just saying the Ignika falling into Mahri Nui was a plot twist.

4: So a more mature story line (don't deny it, it was slightly mature) for a children's toy line is a bad thing?

[believe victims]

You need to understand sarcasm.

 

...No, I think you do. The selection I quoted was neither correct, nor incorrect in a way that proved a point. It was just plain patently false, not properly sarcastic.

 

I still fail to see the problem.

 

It's called giving your story direction, and time to actually flesh out your characters. The best thing Bionicle G2 can do is focus on the main 6 Toa and their development as characters, rather than yanking attention away from them because they got "boring". Truly good characters don't get boring. Again, nobody was clamoring to get rid of Harry Potter and replace him with someone else.

 

BUT this has nothing to do with darkness.

 

Right, because I was just saying the Ignika falling into Mahri Nui was a plot twist.

 

If you don't want me to pick my own plot twists to criticize, why not provide some stellar examples of your own to prove me wrong?

 

So a more mature story line (don't deny it, it was slightly mature) for a children's toy line is a bad thing?

 

Mature as in the rating for video games full of guns and blood and guts and grit? Definitely, it was.

 

Mature as in being well-developed and deep? Of course it wasn't.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Dina Saruyama

[MarkSurge9411]

 

You need to understand sarcasm.

 

...No, I think you do. The selection I quoted was neither correct, nor incorrect in a way that proved a point. It was just plain patently false, not properly sarcastic.

 

I still fail to see the problem.

 

It's called giving your story direction, and time to actually flesh out your characters. The best thing Bionicle G2 can do is focus on the main 6 Toa and their development as characters, rather than yanking attention away from them because they got "boring". Truly good characters don't get boring. Again, nobody was clamoring to get rid of Harry Potter and replace him with someone else.

 

BUT this has nothing to do with darkness.

 

Right, because I was just saying the Ignika falling into Mahri Nui was a plot twist.

 

If you don't want me to pick my own plot twists to criticize, why not provide some stellar examples of your own to prove me wrong?

 

So a more mature story line (don't deny it, it was slightly mature) for a children's toy line is a bad thing?

 

Mature as in the rating for video games full of guns and blood and guts and grit? Definitely, it was.

 

Mature as in being well-developed and deep? Of course it wasn't.

 

1: I really don't feel like explaining right now, so I'll leave it at I was sarcastic.

2: The Toa Mata weren't boring, but they would be if you focused on them for ten years. Not to mention they'd have to come up with many reasons as to why they kept changing.

3: Why don't you explain to me how the Ignika falling to Mahri Nui constitutes as a plot twist?

4: Point me to where blood and guts were EVER featured in Bionicle. Pridak didn't have blood, it only looked like blood. Also, Bionicle's guns weren't the kind that people use to kill. And please, the Bionicle story is well-developed and deep, you just refuse to believe the truth.

[LegoSWfan]

Pridaks "blood" was just natural markings, people only assumed it to be blood because of its color, location (around his mouth and on his weapons) and because of his shark motif.

[believe victims]

Not to mention they'd have to come up with many reasons as to why they kept changing.

 

Wow, if only they'd ever come up with such a reason.

 

Why don't you explain to me how the Ignika falling to Mahri Nui constitutes as a plot twist?

 

The Inika just got the Ignika, then at the last second it pulls free of Matoro's hand and shoots into Mahri Nui? This is basic plot twist formula here: heroes get what they want, then at the last second they lose it.

 

Point me to where blood and guts were EVER featured in Bionicle. Pridak didn't have blood, it only looked like blood. Also, Bionicle's guns weren't the kind that people use to kill..

 

I was making a distinction between the two types of maturity, not ascribing the exact qualities to Bionicle. You keep getting hung up on minutiae and ignoring the general ideas. Bionicle was considered "mature" because it decided to talk about death a bunch, which is the former, not the latter.

 

And please, the Bionicle story is well-developed and deep, you just refuse to believe the truth.

 

Yes, Agent Mulder.

 

(Honestly, it was a ten year story about the importance of friendship. It wasn't that deep.)

 

Pridaks "blood" was just natural markings, people only assumed it to be blood because of its color, location (around his mouth and on his weapons) and because of his shark motif.

 

If it was designed with the intent to look like blood, then it's only a matter of semantics whether it's truly blood or just markings. It was clearly intended to look like blood; there is no other reason to put red splotchy markings on the mouth and blades of a shark-based character.

[Ballom Nom Nom]

Pridaks "blood" was just natural markings, people only assumed it to be blood because of its color, location (around his mouth and on his weapons) and because of his shark motif.

Then tell me why his weapons would have any reason to possess the exact same "natural patterns" as his body. No, it was pretty blatantly intended to be blood; it's just that a hasty retcon was done when the appropriate people came to their senses and realized that the blood-smeared shark wouldn't be the most kid-friendly toy out there.

 

~B~

[MarkSurge9411]

 

Not to mention they'd have to come up with many reasons as to why they kept changing.

 

Wow, if only they'd ever come up with such a reason.

 

Why don't you explain to me how the Ignika falling to Mahri Nui constitutes as a plot twist?

 

The Inika just got the Ignika, then at the last second it pulls free of Matoro's hand and shoots into Mahri Nui? This is basic plot twist formula here: heroes get what they want, then at the last second they lose it.

 

Point me to where blood and guts were EVER featured in Bionicle. Pridak didn't have blood, it only looked like blood. Also, Bionicle's guns weren't the kind that people use to kill..

 

I was making a distinction between the two types of maturity, not ascribing the exact qualities to Bionicle. You keep getting hung up on minutiae and ignoring the general ideas. Bionicle was considered "mature" because it decided to talk about death a bunch, which is the former, not the latter.

 

And please, the Bionicle story is well-developed and deep, you just refuse to believe the truth.

 

Yes, Agent Mulder.

 

(Honestly, it was a ten year story about the importance of friendship. It wasn't that deep.)

 

Pridaks "blood" was just natural markings, people only assumed it to be blood because of its color, location (around his mouth and on his weapons) and because of his shark motif.

 

If it was designed with the intent to look like blood, then it's only a matter of semantics whether it's truly blood or just markings. It was clearly intended to look like blood; there is no other reason to put red splotchy markings on the mouth and blades of a shark-based character.

 

1: Yeah, let's slice Bionicle's run time in half and up and reveal the Toa Mata's origins (another twist).

2: Wasn't really a twist, just plot development.

3: And yet it featured more of the latter and not the former.

4: And yet it had entire games devoted to exploring the worlds, plot twists, character development, etc.

5: Then why did none of the others have it? Sharks aren't the only vicious things in the sea.

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

 

Pridaks "blood" was just natural markings, people only assumed it to be blood because of its color, location (around his mouth and on his weapons) and because of his shark motif.

Then tell me why his weapons would have any reason to possess the exact same "natural patterns" as his body. No, it was pretty blatantly intended to be blood; it's just that a hasty retcon was done when the appropriate people came to their senses and realized that the blood-smeared shark wouldn't be the most kid-friendly toy out there.

 

~B~

 

 

even though it was, imo at least, a pretty good look for him, color balance wise and whatnot. :u

 

(still though, blood? what were they thinking? :0)

Edited May 1, 2015 by Rahkshi Lalonde

[MarkSurge9411]

 

Pridaks "blood" was just natural markings, people only assumed it to be blood because of its color, location (around his mouth and on his weapons) and because of his shark motif.

Then tell me why his weapons would have any reason to possess the exact same "natural patterns" as his body. No, it was pretty blatantly intended to be blood; it's just that a hasty retcon was done when the appropriate people came to their senses and realized that the blood-smeared shark wouldn't be the most kid-friendly toy out there.

 

~B~

 

So then why did none of the other Barraki have it? You can't convince me they've never gotten blood on themselves before. Also, if it was blood, why hadn't it washed off? Something like that wouldn't stay on him forever.