The difference between OLD and NEW Bionicle

[Cwog]

Doing away with the disrespect in that comment, allow me to explain what a "tyrant" is: "a cruel and oppressive leader."

 

In no way do I believe any of our mods, especially the one in question (Makaru), are tyrants. They're neither cruel nor oppressive, and aren't even really leaders, so much as they are... moderators. I can't think of a better word because it fits so well.

[LegoSWfan]

Typical crone butt kissing.

[GSR]

Mods should not be tyrants.

 

And members should not be jerks to each other and staff. If your definition of "tyrant" is "asks people to stop flaming", this might not be the forum for you.

 

You've been warned about this in the past, and you're derailing the topic to insult members and mods.  Suspended for a week.

[Cwog]

Not brown-nosing. Rather, respecting them for putting up with little gits like you who can't seem to respect them at all!

 

You really have reached the limit of my patience. *sigh* Just please do everyone a favor and think before you speak.

 

EDIT: ninja'd

Edited May 12, 2015 by Cwog

[Mocmaker]

Dude, respect our fellow members and especially respect our mods and admins. This is supposed to be a friendly community.

 

Back on topic, I an tell you that at 6 years old, when the Piraka first came out, I loved them. However, most of the brutal violence stuff flew right over my head. Just like Aanchir said a little while earlier, just because Gen1 seemed darker, doesn't mean it was meant for a mature audience. It just meant that they did a mediocre job of making it appeal to the target audience.

 

Now, as for the 2015 Skull villains? They're evil, undead, and look the part. When I first showed my little cousin, who is 6, the pictures from NY Toy Fair, he basically flipped out. Zombies are in right now, and these are a perfect example of them that aren't totally over-the-top gory.

The Piraka really are some of my favorite: very creative and just awesome.  Really?  I liked the violence a bit at the time.  Agreed; I don't think that because Gen 1 was darker that it is for a more mature audience.  Exactly!

 

I was a little bummed out when I found out the skull villains don't have the gory stuff.  But that is the cool thing about Lego you can change it to meet your specifications!

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

I was a little bummed out when I found out the skull villains don't have the gory stuff.  But that is the cool thing about Lego you can change it to meet your specifications!

 

I mean, by virtue of having their mechanical entrails on full display, I would say the skull villains are plenty gory, while also still staying in that nice PG rating Bionicle likes to keep, usually.

[Lyichir]

 

Dude, respect our fellow members and especially respect our mods and admins. This is supposed to be a friendly community.

 

Back on topic, I an tell you that at 6 years old, when the Piraka first came out, I loved them. However, most of the brutal violence stuff flew right over my head. Just like Aanchir said a little while earlier, just because Gen1 seemed darker, doesn't mean it was meant for a mature audience. It just meant that they did a mediocre job of making it appeal to the target audience.

 

Now, as for the 2015 Skull villains? They're evil, undead, and look the part. When I first showed my little cousin, who is 6, the pictures from NY Toy Fair, he basically flipped out. Zombies are in right now, and these are a perfect example of them that aren't totally over-the-top gory.

The Piraka really are some of my favorite: very creative and just awesome.  Really?  I liked the violence a bit at the time.  Agreed; I don't think that because Gen 1 was darker that it is for a more mature audience.  Exactly!

 

I was a little bummed out when I found out the skull villains don't have the gory stuff.  But that is the cool thing about Lego you can change it to meet your specifications!

 

While I loved the Piraka and their story arc, it wasn't for the violence. In fact, I'd think they'd be remembered more fondly if Greg had emphasized the stronger parts of their characterization (the first group of diverse villain characters we'd had, each with their own motivations and histories) and done away with some of the more regrettable parts of their narrative (doing things like pushing Matoran into lava to die made their villainy too over-the-top to take seriously).

Edited May 12, 2015 by Lyichir

[Dane-gerous]

In my opinion, I think that this has nothing to do with the sets. More to do with the story in question, as the G2 story is less detailed. This is mandatory though, as G1 was getting too complicated for the kiddies to catch up with.

[silo]

In my opinion, I think that this has nothing to do with the sets. More to do with the story in question, as the G2 story is less detailed. This is mandatory though, as G1 was getting too complicated for the kiddies to catch up with.

Exactly - as much as anyone might not like the slightly "simplified story"*, it's for the greater good of Bionicle as a whole - this way, it'll survive longer.

*Although there is less story content, I don't personally think 2015's plot framework is any less complicated than 2001's.

Edited May 12, 2015 by 000

[Aanchir]

 

In my opinion, I think that this has nothing to do with the sets. More to do with the story in question, as the G2 story is less detailed. This is mandatory though, as G1 was getting too complicated for the kiddies to catch up with.

Exactly - as much as anyone might not like the slightly "simplified story"*, it's for the greater good of Bionicle as a whole - this way, it'll survive longer.

*Although there is less story content, I don't personally think 2015's plot framework is any less complicated than 2001's.

 

 

I wouldn't even go so far as to say that there's that much less story content. I mean, other than bios and things, the only actual story media in 2001 was the Mata Nui Online Game, a mini-comic from McDonalds, and three bi-monthly comics which only told a fraction of the story. There was also supposed to be a PC game, but it never ended up getting released.

 

I'm not saying 2001 didn't have a storytelling advantage. Mata Nui Online Game was, in my opinion, a masterpiece of storytelling and world-building. 2015 doesn't have anything even remotely comparable. With that said, I'm not so sure that Mata Nui Online Game was the ideal method for conveying the BIONICLE story. There are a lot of fans even back in 2001 who never completed the Mata Nui Online Game and thus never experienced its story in full. This is one of the biggest disadvantages games have as a storytelling medium — as an active experience rather than a passive one, experiencing and enjoying the story in full depends on the skills and patience of the player.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Aanchir

[MarkSurge9411]

Doing away with the disrespect in that comment, allow me to explain what a "tyrant" is: "a cruel and oppressive leader."

 

In no way do I believe any of our mods, especially the one in question (Makaru), are tyrants. They're neither cruel nor oppressive, and aren't even really leaders, so much as they are... moderators. I can't think of a better word because it fits so well.

Also, who's that "Windrider" he was talking about? A mod?

 

Sorry, the only mod I know by name is Makaru.

[Fry]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing more remote control sets

[Cwog]

 

Doing away with the disrespect in that comment, allow me to explain what a "tyrant" is: "a cruel and oppressive leader."

 

In no way do I believe any of our mods, especially the one in question (Makaru), are tyrants. They're neither cruel nor oppressive, and aren't even really leaders, so much as they are... moderators. I can't think of a better word because it fits so well.

Also, who's that "Windrider" he was talking about? A mod?

 

Sorry, the only mod I know by name is Makaru.

 

Windrider? She's retired staff, so not actually a mod or admin. You can check out her profile here: http://www.bzpower.com/board/user/5071-windrider/

[MarkSurge9411]

 

 

Doing away with the disrespect in that comment, allow me to explain what a "tyrant" is: "a cruel and oppressive leader."

 

In no way do I believe any of our mods, especially the one in question (Makaru), are tyrants. They're neither cruel nor oppressive, and aren't even really leaders, so much as they are... moderators. I can't think of a better word because it fits so well.

Also, who's that "Windrider" he was talking about? A mod?

 

Sorry, the only mod I know by name is Makaru.

 

Windrider? She's retired staff, so not actually a mod or admin. You can check out her profile here: http://www.bzpower.com/board/user/5071-windrider/

 

Now I remember her. She's the one who typed those topics for helping out people on this site.

[Ford]

 

 

 

Doing away with the disrespect in that comment, allow me to explain what a "tyrant" is: "a cruel and oppressive leader."

 

In no way do I believe any of our mods, especially the one in question (Makaru), are tyrants. They're neither cruel nor oppressive, and aren't even really leaders, so much as they are... moderators. I can't think of a better word because it fits so well.

Also, who's that "Windrider" he was talking about? A mod?

 

Sorry, the only mod I know by name is Makaru.

 

Windrider? She's retired staff, so not actually a mod or admin. You can check out her profile here: http://www.bzpower.com/board/user/5071-windrider/

 

Now I remember her. She's the one who typed those topics for helping out people on this site.

 

She's also the one who gets real on others' topics. I mean, it scares me sometimes, especially when on a topic that I have made.

 

But I digress.

 

I appreciate what this reboot has to offer, which is something that people seem to be forgetting when trying to link the past and present together in some convoluted head canon. The reason I like the reboot so much is because it offers the chance to tell new stories with a fresh starting point while still using the characters of old (or at least head canons deem them to be "old"). I am curious to experience these new stories and what they have to offer.

[Sir Kohran]

 

 

There are a lot of fans even back in 2001 who never completed the Mata Nui Online Game and thus never experienced its story in full.

 

You've stated this before, and I'd like to know how you came to know how many fans couldn't finish the MNOLG.

[Xabla]

I would like to see something more akin to the Barraki again.

[ComicGuy89]

One thing I like about the new continuity is that the world is currently quite empty, and allows a lot of room for imagination. I could create random fan-characters and fit them in here and there somehow, without compromising the canon story. I feel this complements the LEGO focus on creating your own adventures and story, and I imagine if I was a kid, I'd be thrilled.

[Lyichir]

 

There are a lot of fans even back in 2001 who never completed the Mata Nui Online Game and thus never experienced its story in full.

 

You've stated this before, and I'd like to know how you came to know how many fans couldn't finish the MNOLG.

 

I don't have any hard statistic or quotes about people being unable to finish it. But based on what I know, I think there's some serious hints that that was the case. For one, the classic site actually had an FAQ for the game, giving hints on what players should do next if they get stuck. No other Lego game has ever featured anything like that to my knowledge, and I can only imagine it was added because kids were getting confused by the game's somewhat atypical non-linear structure. Secondly, I myself never progressed far in the game, at least until several years later. Granted, I was not as skilled a gamer then as I am now, but I wasn't new to gaming, either—so I'd personally consider it likely that if I could get frustrated and stuck that easily, so could many other players.

[Regitnui]

I only downloaded the MNOLG years afterwards, so I imagine the vast majority of Bionicle fans outside the US and Europe did the same, what with internet being a bramble patch of brittle sticks in other parts of the world at that point in history for most of the world

[dviddy]

I just remember sometimes waiting an hour between scene loads when MNOG was brand new, because dial-up was still the norm and ours was slow.

[Xabla]

I just remember sometimes waiting an hour between scene loads when MNOG was brand new, because dial-up was still the norm and ours was slow.

Ha ha yes

[Lyichir]

I only downloaded the MNOLG years afterwards, so I imagine the vast majority of Bionicle fans outside the US and Europe did the same, what with internet being a bramble patch of brittle sticks in other parts of the world at that point in history for most of the world

In 2001, the MNOLG wasn't downloadable—rather, it was playable only on the site itself, with updates added periodically. So when the game was first released, only the beach and charred forest were available to explore, with areas such as Ta-Koro, Ga-Koro, and the other villages added to the game episodically.

 

And yes, as DeeVee points out, that was a much different time for the internet. Though of course, that meant that some action portions of the game like the Kahu flight were much easier, due to being designed around longer load times.

[Makaru]

I just remember sometimes waiting an hour between scene loads when MNOG was brand new, because dial-up was still the norm and ours was slow.

 

Uphill

 

Both ways.

[Leoxandar Arktanus]

I just finished reading through the entire topic and I still don't understand the current focus

[Cwog]

I just finished reading through the entire topic and I still don't understand the current focus

Five pages? Ouch, you feeling alright? Want to sit down?

 

Yeah, it seems that people are talking about MNOG, but how it ties into the main topic of how Gen1 is different than Gen2? No clue there.

[Aanchir]

 

I just finished reading through the entire topic and I still don't understand the current focus

Five pages? Ouch, you feeling alright? Want to sit down?

 

Yeah, it seems that people are talking about MNOG, but how it ties into the main topic of how Gen1 is different than Gen2? No clue there.

 

I brought it up as an example of a storytelling device G1 had in its first year that G2 doesn't have, and then speculated a bit about the possible reasons LEGO isn't taking that approach for G2. I absolutely LOVE Mata Nui Online Game for its story, immersive gameplay, and world-building, but I'm not sure how good a job it did at actually getting the story to the fans.

[Cwog]

 

 

I just finished reading through the entire topic and I still don't understand the current focus

Five pages? Ouch, you feeling alright? Want to sit down?

 

Yeah, it seems that people are talking about MNOG, but how it ties into the main topic of how Gen1 is different than Gen2? No clue there.

 

I brought it up as an example of a storytelling device G1 had in its first year that G2 doesn't have, and then speculated a bit about the possible reasons LEGO isn't taking that approach for G2. I absolutely LOVE Mata Nui Online Game for its story, immersive gameplay, and world-building, but I'm not sure how good a job it did at actually getting the story to the fans.

 

Oh, alright. Thanks for clarifying!

[Leoxandar Arktanus]

 

 

I just finished reading through the entire topic and I still don't understand the current focus

Five pages? Ouch, you feeling alright? Want to sit down?

 

Yeah, it seems that people are talking about MNOG, but how it ties into the main topic of how Gen1 is different than Gen2? No clue there.

 

I brought it up as an example of a storytelling device G1 had in its first year that G2 doesn't have, and then speculated a bit about the possible reasons LEGO isn't taking that approach for G2. I absolutely LOVE Mata Nui Online Game for its story, immersive gameplay, and world-building, but I'm not sure how good a job it did at actually getting the story to the fans.

 

I really wonder the same thing. It might have to do with how most kids today spend time playing mindless mobile games and that TLG might nto want to invest in something that would rarely be played.

[believe victims]

 

 

 

I just finished reading through the entire topic and I still don't understand the current focus

Five pages? Ouch, you feeling alright? Want to sit down?

 

Yeah, it seems that people are talking about MNOG, but how it ties into the main topic of how Gen1 is different than Gen2? No clue there.

 

I brought it up as an example of a storytelling device G1 had in its first year that G2 doesn't have, and then speculated a bit about the possible reasons LEGO isn't taking that approach for G2. I absolutely LOVE Mata Nui Online Game for its story, immersive gameplay, and world-building, but I'm not sure how good a job it did at actually getting the story to the fans.

 

I really wonder the same thing. It might have to do with how most kids today spend time playing mindless mobile games and that TLG might nto want to invest in something that would rarely be played.

 

 

See, I've seen people say "most kids today play mindless games" multiple times and it just doesn't follow for me. Games like MNOG have never been the main kind of game LEGO puts out. Even a majority of Bionicle G1 games were as mindless as any mobile game. It's not that kids today are so much worse than kids back then. MNOG was a fluke.

[fishers64]

Just FTR, I had no idea MNOG was the story (I thought it was just a fun game) until I joined BZPower. I thought C.A. Hapka's books was the 2001 canon story. Guess who got corrected. 

[Grungemeister]

To me, the main difference is how they tell their stories.

 

G1 was epic and mystical early on, but then got a little dark and gritty around 2004-2008. It had great media (MNOG, Bohrok animations, books), and it flushed out its characters quite well. Of all the characters we meet in G1, MAYBE 10% are not worth remembering. (Remember Pelagia? The sailor? She's my favorite background character  )

 

G2 has a more Saturday morning action cartoon feel. It doesn't really have the mysticism of G1, only the epic part. And so far we have, what, 15 characters? And 9 are named? (6 Toa, 6 Protectors, LoSS, Ekimu, and Makuta. Is that right?) 

 

So basically, to sum it up in the words of a teaser trailer announcer, G1 is "A mystical world, full of legend and mystery." and G2 is "Action! Adventure! Six heroes go on a quest! What will happen next?!"

[fishers64]

To me, the main difference is how they tell their stories.

 

G1 was epic and mystical early on, but then got a little dark and gritty around 2004-2008. It had great media (MNOG, Bohrok animations, books), and it flushed out its characters quite well. Of all the characters we meet in G1, MAYBE 10% are not worth remembering. (Remember Pelagia? The sailor? She's my favorite background character  )

 

G2 has a more Saturday morning action cartoon feel. It doesn't really have the mysticism of G1, only the epic part. And so far we have, what, 15 characters? And 9 are named? (6 Toa, 6 Protectors, LoSS, Ekimu, and Makuta. Is that right?) 

 

So basically, to sum it up in the words of a teaser trailer announcer, G1 is "A mystical world, full of legend and mystery." and G2 is "Action! Adventure! Six heroes go on a quest! What will happen next?!"

I'm going to have to mildly disagree here. G2 is mystical with a lot of unanswered questions, like "What happened to the Ancient City? What is the origin of the Skull Spiders? Is Makuta awake? Is the MoUP alive?" etc. Plus also mystical prophecies and destiny and all that. If any thing, it's almost MORE mystical than G1 at its beginning. But I'd say it's comparable. 

 

What G2 is missing is the latter thing - the action and adventure. The journey to the Golden Masks is glossed over. Tahu busts the Skull Spiders in one Fire blast, and the LoSS is defeated quite easily with the whole team. The pacing takes away from action, adventure, and suspense. 

[Leoxandar Arktanus]

 

To me, the main difference is how they tell their stories.

 

G1 was epic and mystical early on, but then got a little dark and gritty around 2004-2008. It had great media (MNOG, Bohrok animations, books), and it flushed out its characters quite well. Of all the characters we meet in G1, MAYBE 10% are not worth remembering. (Remember Pelagia? The sailor? She's my favorite background character  )

 

G2 has a more Saturday morning action cartoon feel. It doesn't really have the mysticism of G1, only the epic part. And so far we have, what, 15 characters? And 9 are named? (6 Toa, 6 Protectors, LoSS, Ekimu, and Makuta. Is that right?) 

 

So basically, to sum it up in the words of a teaser trailer announcer, G1 is "A mystical world, full of legend and mystery." and G2 is "Action! Adventure! Six heroes go on a quest! What will happen next?!"

I'm going to have to mildly disagree here. G2 is mystical with a lot of unanswered questions, like "What happened to the Ancient City? What is the origin of the Skull Spiders? Is Makuta awake? Is the MoUP alive?" etc. Plus also mystical prophecies and destiny and all that. If any thing, it's almost MORE mystical than G1 at its beginning. But I'd say it's comparable. 

 

What G2 is missing is the latter thing - the action and adventure. The journey to the Golden Masks is glossed over. Tahu busts the Skull Spiders in one Fire blast, and the LoSS is defeated quite easily with the whole team. The pacing takes away from action, adventure, and suspense. 

 

Exactly. There are still several questions that can be found if you look for them. Such as who made the Mask Makers' masks?

[Ford]

 

 

To me, the main difference is how they tell their stories.

 

G1 was epic and mystical early on, but then got a little dark and gritty around 2004-2008. It had great media (MNOG, Bohrok animations, books), and it flushed out its characters quite well. Of all the characters we meet in G1, MAYBE 10% are not worth remembering. (Remember Pelagia? The sailor? She's my favorite background character  )

 

G2 has a more Saturday morning action cartoon feel. It doesn't really have the mysticism of G1, only the epic part. And so far we have, what, 15 characters? And 9 are named? (6 Toa, 6 Protectors, LoSS, Ekimu, and Makuta. Is that right?) 

 

So basically, to sum it up in the words of a teaser trailer announcer, G1 is "A mystical world, full of legend and mystery." and G2 is "Action! Adventure! Six heroes go on a quest! What will happen next?!"

I'm going to have to mildly disagree here. G2 is mystical with a lot of unanswered questions, like "What happened to the Ancient City? What is the origin of the Skull Spiders? Is Makuta awake? Is the MoUP alive?" etc. Plus also mystical prophecies and destiny and all that. If any thing, it's almost MORE mystical than G1 at its beginning. But I'd say it's comparable. 

 

What G2 is missing is the latter thing - the action and adventure. The journey to the Golden Masks is glossed over. Tahu busts the Skull Spiders in one Fire blast, and the LoSS is defeated quite easily with the whole team. The pacing takes away from action, adventure, and suspense. 

 

Exactly. There are still several questions that can be found if you look for them. Such as who made the Mask Makers' masks?

 

Or who made the pedestals for the masks?

What's up with that "Mask Graveyard"? Or the "Arena" in the Ancient City?

 

Hopefully we find out in due time, but at least I am intrigued enough to follow the story for answers.

[Aanchir]

 

 

 

 

I just finished reading through the entire topic and I still don't understand the current focus

Five pages? Ouch, you feeling alright? Want to sit down?

 

Yeah, it seems that people are talking about MNOG, but how it ties into the main topic of how Gen1 is different than Gen2? No clue there.

 

I brought it up as an example of a storytelling device G1 had in its first year that G2 doesn't have, and then speculated a bit about the possible reasons LEGO isn't taking that approach for G2. I absolutely LOVE Mata Nui Online Game for its story, immersive gameplay, and world-building, but I'm not sure how good a job it did at actually getting the story to the fans.

 

I really wonder the same thing. It might have to do with how most kids today spend time playing mindless mobile games and that TLG might nto want to invest in something that would rarely be played.

 

 

See, I've seen people say "most kids today play mindless games" multiple times and it just doesn't follow for me. Games like MNOG have never been the main kind of game LEGO puts out. Even a majority of Bionicle G1 games were as mindless as any mobile game. It's not that kids today are so much worse than kids back then. MNOG was a fluke.

 

 

Plus, it's not just kids. There are a lot of adults who are willing to commit more time to something fairly mindless like Candy Crush or Angry Birds than something more story-driven. And this is nothing all that new — some of the most successful computer games ever are ones like Tetris and Minesweeper that can be enjoyed without a whole lot of emotional commitment.

 

Even a lot of popular pencil-and-paper games like Sudoku are essentially time-wasters, enjoyed by people who need a way to burn time while on the subway, or waiting for a doctor's appointment, or otherwise between one important task and the next. The majority of LEGO online games and mobile games are likewise inexpensive time-wasters, things that can easily be squeezed into the little moments in between other, more important moments.

[Makaru]

Okay but you have to understand why the Toa Masters getting their masks isn't a central plotline this year though. There are no mask packs.

 

That's why we had the Original story with a mask quest. It was an [albeit well-written] commercial push to encourage kids to buy the mask packs. For fans to "quest" for the masks they want. That's why Mask Quests stopped once we stopped having Mask Packs.

[Aanchir]

Okay but you have to understand why the Toa Masters getting their masks isn't a central plotline this year though. There are no mask packs.

 

That's why we had the Original story with a mask quest. It was an [albeit well-written] commercial push to encourage kids to buy the mask packs. For fans to "quest" for the masks they want. That's why Mask Quests stopped once we stopped having Mask Packs.

 

Well, arguably there have been other mask quests since then, just smaller ones. The Toa Inika went on a quest for the Mask of Life, and the 2015 Toa have already each been on a quest for their Golden Masks of Power. I think future stories will put them on a quest or quests for the three legendary masks of Creation, Control, and Ultimate Power.

[Owlexander]

 

Okay but you have to understand why the Toa Masters getting their masks isn't a central plotline this year though. There are no mask packs.

 

That's why we had the Original story with a mask quest. It was an [albeit well-written] commercial push to encourage kids to buy the mask packs. For fans to "quest" for the masks they want. That's why Mask Quests stopped once we stopped having Mask Packs.

 

Well, arguably there have been other mask quests since then, just smaller ones. The Toa Inika went on a quest for the Mask of Life, and the 2015 Toa have already each been on a quest for their Golden Masks of Power. I think future stories will put them on a quest or quests for the three legendary masks of Creation, Control, and Ultimate Power.

 

 

I can just imagine there being so many worthless protector mask variations with some really rare MoC, MoP, and MoUP. *u*

[Makaru]

No, Aanchir, I mean quests where the Toa have to individually find their masks (or Krana or Kanoka, whatever the case may be). The Avohkii/Ignika were not mask quests, as much as they were "Quest for the Macguffin which also just happens to be a mask this time".

 

It's a subtle difference, but it is really important in explaining why the Toa Masters finding their masks only took three months of our time. It isn't a focus at all this year because there is no Mask pack meta-game involved. Instead it's a reference. A nod to the old series without outright copy+pasting the original plot.