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The difference between OLD and NEW Bionicle


Gipsy Danger

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Gipsy, yes, in the pre 2003 years, bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets.

 

big technic set then

 

big technic set now

 

9zwEkno.png

 

Er, 300 more parts and $10 more expensive?

 

does this qualify as explaining the joke, again? I seem to be lost on that at the moment.

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Gipsy, yes, in the pre 2003 years, bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets.

 

big technic set then

 

big technic set now

 

9zwEkno.png

 

Er, 300 more parts and $10 more expensive?

 

does this qualify as explaining the joke, again? I seem to be lost on that at the moment.

 

 

It was hard finding technic sets in the same exact price bracket in the given time frames.

 

point is, there's a similar level of complexity. hence, "what's the differance" between technic then and technic now?

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Gipsy Danger, it would be good form to at least acknowledge when your points have been adressed, instead of ignoring the numerous and well thought out responses you get. It appears honestly rather disrespectful.

 

Regarding the pistons being part of Bionicle, I have to agree, to an extent. The ball jointed arm that debuted (to my knowledge) in the Slizer line of toys featured two prominent piston designs, and many of the later Bionicle pieces would feature similar sculpted, nonfuntioning facsimiles of gears and/or pistons. Note, that while I agree, that this has been a design feture on many Bionicle pieces, it has decidedly not been a feature of Lego Technic as a whole.

 

However, as Dina Saruyama pointed out, this prevalence of sculpted machinery does not equate to the sole defining feature of Bionicle.

 

It also bears noting that there is no obligation for the new Bionicle to adhere to all visual design cues of toys released well over a decade ago.

 

In short, you not liking the absence (although it is not a total absence, there are sculpted pistons to be found) does in no way equate to an objective shortcoming.

I'm not DISRESPECTING or IGNORING them.  Unless if there is something that I want to clear, I will.

 

And there is nothing to clear.

Gipsy, yes, in the pre 2003 years, bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets.

Oh, ok.  

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and BTW https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

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Gipsy, yes, in the pre 2003 years, bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets.

 

big technic set then

 

big technic set now

 

9zwEkno.png

 

Once again, DW has no idea what he's talking about. Like Lego Town sets during that same period, Lego Technic sets of the early 2000s were defined by weird, futuristic vehicles with only a few simple functions. Compared to those days, modern Technic sets are significantly more complex. If you want a concrete example, just look at last year's Volvo Wheel Loader. With 1636 pieces and an age range of 11–16, it puts Technic sets from the early 2000s to shame.

Edited by Lyichir
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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

Aanchir's and Meiko's brother

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Gipsy, yes, in the pre 2003 years, bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets.

 

big technic set then

 

big technic set now

 

9zwEkno.png

 

Er, 300 more parts and $10 more expensive?

 

does this qualify as explaining the joke, again? I seem to be lost on that at the moment.

 

 

It was hard finding technic sets in the same exact price bracket in the given time frames.

 

point is, there's a similar level of complexity. hence, "what's the differance" between technic then and technic now?

 

Technically, if you adjust for inflation, the 2003 set with fewer pieces is actually MORE expensive.

 

Consider also:

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Gipsy, yes, in the pre 2003 years, bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets.

 

big technic set then

 

big technic set now

 

9zwEkno.png

 

Once again, DW has no idea what he's talking about. Like Lego Town sets during that same period, Lego Technic sets of the early 2000s were defined by weird, futuristic vehicles with only a few simple functions. Compared to those days, modern Technic sets are significantly more complex. If you want a concrete example, just look at last year's Volvo Wheel Loader. With 1636 pieces and an age range of 11–16, it puts Technic sets from the early 2000s to shame.

 

Yes he does.  I know what he's talking about.

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A signature is supposed to be this:

 

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and BTW https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

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Yes he does. I know what he's talking about.

Both of the 'Chir Brothers are very good when it comes to the economics of Lego. I'd trust them over DW any day, even if he agreed with me and they didn't.

Edited by Regitnui
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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Gipsy, yes, in the pre 2003 years, bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets.

 

big technic set then

 

big technic set now

 

9zwEkno.png

 

Once again, DW has no idea what he's talking about. Like Lego Town sets during that same period, Lego Technic sets of the early 2000s were defined by weird, futuristic vehicles with only a few simple functions. Compared to those days, modern Technic sets are significantly more complex. If you want a concrete example, just look at last year's Volvo Wheel Loader. With 1636 pieces and an age range of 11–16, it puts Technic sets from the early 2000s to shame.

 

Yes he does.  I know what he's talking about.

 

Sorry. You clearly don't. There's a significant difference between facts and lies. I try my best to provide the former, but DW seemingly has no qualms about ignoring those in favor of his own, made-up "facts".

 

And the worst part is you don't care. You like the false narrative he presents better so you're perfectly happy joining him in his echo chamber. If you really have no interest in the truth, you could have saved us all the trouble we've gone through trying to explain things by not starting topics just to reinforce your own point of view.

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

Aanchir's and Meiko's brother

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Gipsy, yes, in the pre 2003 years, bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets.

 

big technic set then

 

big technic set now

 

9zwEkno.png

 

Once again, DW has no idea what he's talking about. Like Lego Town sets during that same period, Lego Technic sets of the early 2000s were defined by weird, futuristic vehicles with only a few simple functions. Compared to those days, modern Technic sets are significantly more complex. If you want a concrete example, just look at last year's Volvo Wheel Loader. With 1636 pieces and an age range of 11–16, it puts Technic sets from the early 2000s to shame.

 

Yes he does.  I know what he's talking about.

 

Sorry. You clearly don't. There's a significant difference between facts and lies. I try my best to provide the former, but DW seemingly has no qualms about ignoring those in favor of his own, made-up "facts".

 

And the worst part is you don't care. You like the false narrative he presents better so you're perfectly happy joining him in his echo chamber. If you really have no interest in the truth, you could have saved us all the trouble we've gone through trying to explain things by not starting topics just to reinforce your own point of view.

 

No offence, but you could've started up a flame war with that post.  And yes I understand what he means.  Its YOU who doesn't understand.  DecepticonWarrior does not make up facts.  I DON'T care?  I DO CARE!  I do have interest in the truth, sometimes I won't show it.  But I'm showing it now.  This is on your end, not mine.  Period.

 

 

Gipsy, thank you.

Your welcome.

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and BTW https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

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No offence, but you could've started up a flame war with that post.  And yes I understand what he means.  Its YOU who doesn't understand.  DecepticonWarrior does not make up facts.  I DON'T care?  I DO CARE!  I do have interest in the truth, sometimes I won't show it.  But I'm showing it now.  This is on your end, not mine.  Period.

 

 

You need to learn to own up to your own mistakes, instead of blaming others.

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While Lyichir was a little harsh (which I realize is way hypocritical coming from me), DW is quite clearly ignoring the fact that, at worst, complexity levels have stayed stable since the early 2000's, and at best, they've actually increased. There is not a sliding level of complexity at all.

 

And if that post was meant to imply Bionicle has ever been complex, adult-level sets, then that's even more laughable. The original Toa Mata were large parts with small parts shoved into the gaps. The only possible way to mess that up is to use the wrong length axles, attach the wrong limbs, etc. Past the age of, say, 8, any and all complexity to the build is gone.

 

What you are discussing is not facts. What you are discussing is the all-too-familiar phenomenon of conflating nostalgia with truth, and assuming that anything from your youth (or sometimes as general as anything old) is inherently better than anything new, simply because something new is a change from something old.

 

I understand why this thought happens. When we're young, we are most open to new things, and everything we encounter is new and great, and it lays a lot of groundwork for our interests as we get older. When you get older, you start to get more critical and cynical, with that one exception, the blind spot of what you enjoyed in your youth.

 

But understanding why it happens isn't going to stop me from pointing out it's just not true. Technic sets have not slid downhill. Bionicle's never been adult-level complex. This is all a corruption of the facts from the perception that everything after a certain point at which you became critical is no longer as good as anything you enjoyed beforehand.

Edited by Dina Saruyama
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No offence, but you could've started up a flame war with that post.  And yes I understand what he means.  Its YOU who doesn't understand.  DecepticonWarrior does not make up facts.  I DON'T care?  I DO CARE!  I do have interest in the truth, sometimes I won't show it.  But I'm showing it now.  This is on your end, not mine.  Period.

 

 

You need to learn to own up to your own mistakes, instead of blaming others.

 

Correction.  I already have and I am no blaming others.

A signature is supposed to be this:

 

Jaeger_Gipsy_Danger_Decal_02.png

 

and BTW https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

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Gipsy, yes, in the pre 2003 years, bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets.

 

big technic set then

 

big technic set now

 

9zwEkno.png

 

Once again, DW has no idea what he's talking about. Like Lego Town sets during that same period, Lego Technic sets of the early 2000s were defined by weird, futuristic vehicles with only a few simple functions. Compared to those days, modern Technic sets are significantly more complex. If you want a concrete example, just look at last year's Volvo Wheel Loader. With 1636 pieces and an age range of 11–16, it puts Technic sets from the early 2000s to shame.

 

Yes he does.  I know what he's talking about.

 

Sorry. You clearly don't. There's a significant difference between facts and lies. I try my best to provide the former, but DW seemingly has no qualms about ignoring those in favor of his own, made-up "facts".

 

And the worst part is you don't care. You like the false narrative he presents better so you're perfectly happy joining him in his echo chamber. If you really have no interest in the truth, you could have saved us all the trouble we've gone through trying to explain things by not starting topics just to reinforce your own point of view.

 

No offence, but you could've started up a flame war with that post.  And yes I understand what he means.  Its YOU who doesn't understand.  DecepticonWarrior does not make up facts.  I DON'T care?  I DO CARE!  I do have interest in the truth, sometimes I won't show it.  But I'm showing it now.  This is on your end, not mine.  Period.

 

Again, I'm really sorry you feel that way. But saying that DW doesn't lie doesn't make it true.

 

Just look at the other posts on this page. DW made a bold assertion, that "...bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets." He didn't include a single example of a set or sets that backed up that statement. Numerous members pointed out that the facts contradicted that assertion, and they DID cite sources to back up their claims. Yet both you and DW ignored every single one of those valid points, because you both prefer DW's made-up narrative of the "good old days" to actual reality.

 

There's a term for the phenomenon where a person ignores facts that contradict their preferred worldview: cognitive dissonance. And it has a tendency to have a negative effect on reasoned discussion, because it's incredibly hard for a debate or discussion to be productive when the two sides are operating based on mutually exclusive perceptions of reality. I don't want to start any sort of flame war; I just want you to recognize that ignoring the facts as well as any opinion that challenges your own is no way to go through life.

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

Aanchir's and Meiko's brother

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Gipsy, yes, in the pre 2003 years, bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets.

 

big technic set then

 

big technic set now

 

9zwEkno.png

 

Once again, DW has no idea what he's talking about. Like Lego Town sets during that same period, Lego Technic sets of the early 2000s were defined by weird, futuristic vehicles with only a few simple functions. Compared to those days, modern Technic sets are significantly more complex. If you want a concrete example, just look at last year's Volvo Wheel Loader. With 1636 pieces and an age range of 11–16, it puts Technic sets from the early 2000s to shame.

 

Yes he does.  I know what he's talking about.

 

Sorry. You clearly don't. There's a significant difference between facts and lies. I try my best to provide the former, but DW seemingly has no qualms about ignoring those in favor of his own, made-up "facts".

 

And the worst part is you don't care. You like the false narrative he presents better so you're perfectly happy joining him in his echo chamber. If you really have no interest in the truth, you could have saved us all the trouble we've gone through trying to explain things by not starting topics just to reinforce your own point of view.

 

No offence, but you could've started up a flame war with that post.  And yes I understand what he means.  Its YOU who doesn't understand.  DecepticonWarrior does not make up facts.  I DON'T care?  I DO CARE!  I do have interest in the truth, sometimes I won't show it.  But I'm showing it now.  This is on your end, not mine.  Period.

 

Again, I'm really sorry you feel that way. But saying that DW doesn't lie doesn't make it true.

 

Just look at the other posts on this page. DW made a bold assertion, that "...bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets." He didn't include a single example of a set or sets that backed up that statement. Numerous members pointed out that the facts contradicted that assertion, and they DID cite sources to back up their claims. Yet both you and DW ignored every single one of those valid points, because you both prefer DW's made-up narrative of the "good old days" to actual reality.

 

There's a term for the phenomenon where a person ignores facts that contradict their preferred worldview: cognitive dissonance. And it has a tendency to have a negative effect on reasoned discussion, because it's incredibly hard for a debate or discussion to be productive when the two sides are operating based on mutually exclusive perceptions of reality. I don't want to start any sort of flame war; I just want you to recognize that ignoring the facts as well as any opinion that challenges your own is no way to go through life.

 

you and DW ignored every single one

 

No we don't 

 

I just want you to recognize that ignoring the facts as well as any opinion that challenges your own is no way to go through life

 

I'm 13.  I'm not old enough to know that stuff yet.  I am starting an ignore list as DecepticonWarrior said.  This HAS gone too far.

A signature is supposed to be this:

 

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and BTW https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

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My only "grife" with CCBS is that it's less fun to draw.

I've had a lot of fun drawing CCBS characters, myself. I don't draw nearly as much as I used to but that's not really related to the building system. When drawing G1 characters back in the day, I would have to agonize over every detail, not to mention simplify, stylize, or even completely redesign the characters' armor to make it more stylistically consistent. With CCBS characters I am a lot more comfortable sticking with a more or less set-accurate style (like in this Hero Factory drawing or this BIONICLE drawing).

 

Ironically the part of the new BIONICLE sets that I least enjoy drawing is the weapons, the part that has the most in common with the old BIONICLE sets. Drawing high-detail parts in perspective can be so tedious.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gipsy, yes, in the pre 2003 years, bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets.

 

big technic set then

 

big technic set now

 

9zwEkno.png

 

Once again, DW has no idea what he's talking about. Like Lego Town sets during that same period, Lego Technic sets of the early 2000s were defined by weird, futuristic vehicles with only a few simple functions. Compared to those days, modern Technic sets are significantly more complex. If you want a concrete example, just look at last year's Volvo Wheel Loader. With 1636 pieces and an age range of 11–16, it puts Technic sets from the early 2000s to shame.

 

Yes he does.  I know what he's talking about.

 

Sorry. You clearly don't. There's a significant difference between facts and lies. I try my best to provide the former, but DW seemingly has no qualms about ignoring those in favor of his own, made-up "facts".

 

And the worst part is you don't care. You like the false narrative he presents better so you're perfectly happy joining him in his echo chamber. If you really have no interest in the truth, you could have saved us all the trouble we've gone through trying to explain things by not starting topics just to reinforce your own point of view.

 

No offence, but you could've started up a flame war with that post.  And yes I understand what he means.  Its YOU who doesn't understand.  DecepticonWarrior does not make up facts.  I DON'T care?  I DO CARE!  I do have interest in the truth, sometimes I won't show it.  But I'm showing it now.  This is on your end, not mine.  Period.

It's fine if you WANT to believe that, but Technic sets today is as complex or more than Technic sets of the early naughts, and there's really no disputing that. Go to any discussion board of adult LEGO Technic fans and you'll hear the same thing. The early naughts were a dark time for LEGO design in general, and the Technic theme was not exempt from that. Sets with the functional intricacy of 42009 simply did not exist ten years ago. And even the smaller sets were often a lot more simplistic as far as functions were concerned, and aesthetically they were characterized by bare-bones beams and gappy panels rather than a cleaner and more refined look (the old-style panels are widely hated among Technic enthusiasts due to their lack of realism and their awkward, unwieldy shape).

 

Just compare 8282 Quad Bike from 2006 with 9392 Quad Bike from 2012. They have around the same piece count (the 2012 version has one piece fewer), and both have working steering, working rear suspension, and a chain-driven engine with a moving piston . But the 2006 version did not have real, working front suspension (it just has some pretend suspension rods made of corrugated pipe), while the 2012 version does. Advantage: 2012.

 

Likewise, compare 8415 Dump Truck from 2005 to 42035 Mining Truck from 2015. 8415 is a gappy mess, and has way fewer pieces despite being the same price. Both sets have steering driven by a gear at the top, and a tipping cargo bed driven by a gear on the side. 8415 has two more wheels, but 42035 has an engine with a moving piston and transmission belt. Again, I think the newer set has the advantage in terms of sheer complexity.

 

The older sets might sometimes LOOK more complex, but gaps and hollow spaces are not the same as actual complexity.

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My only "grife" with CCBS is that it's less fun to draw.

I've had a lot of fun drawing CCBS characters, myself. I don't draw nearly as much as I used to but that's not really related to the building system. When drawing G1 characters back in the day, I would have to agonize over every detail, not to mention simplify, stylize, or even completely redesign the characters' armor to make it more stylistically consistent. With CCBS characters I am a lot more comfortable sticking with a more or less set-accurate style (like in this Hero Factory drawing or this BIONICLE drawing).

 

Ironically the part of the new BIONICLE sets that I least enjoy drawing is the weapons, the part that has the most in common with the old BIONICLE sets. Drawing high-detail parts in perspective can be so tedious.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gipsy, yes, in the pre 2003 years, bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets.

 

big technic set then

 

big technic set now

 

9zwEkno.png

 

Once again, DW has no idea what he's talking about. Like Lego Town sets during that same period, Lego Technic sets of the early 2000s were defined by weird, futuristic vehicles with only a few simple functions. Compared to those days, modern Technic sets are significantly more complex. If you want a concrete example, just look at last year's Volvo Wheel Loader. With 1636 pieces and an age range of 11–16, it puts Technic sets from the early 2000s to shame.

 

Yes he does.  I know what he's talking about.

 

Sorry. You clearly don't. There's a significant difference between facts and lies. I try my best to provide the former, but DW seemingly has no qualms about ignoring those in favor of his own, made-up "facts".

 

And the worst part is you don't care. You like the false narrative he presents better so you're perfectly happy joining him in his echo chamber. If you really have no interest in the truth, you could have saved us all the trouble we've gone through trying to explain things by not starting topics just to reinforce your own point of view.

 

No offence, but you could've started up a flame war with that post.  And yes I understand what he means.  Its YOU who doesn't understand.  DecepticonWarrior does not make up facts.  I DON'T care?  I DO CARE!  I do have interest in the truth, sometimes I won't show it.  But I'm showing it now.  This is on your end, not mine.  Period.

It's fine if you WANT to believe that, but Technic sets today is as complex or more than Technic sets of the early naughts, and there's really no disputing that. Go to any discussion board of adult LEGO Technic fans and you'll hear the same thing. The early naughts were a dark time for LEGO design in general, and the Technic theme was not exempt from that. Sets with the functional intricacy of 42009 simply did not exist ten years ago. And even the smaller sets were often a lot more simplistic as far as functions were concerned, and aesthetically they were characterized by bare-bones beams and gappy panels rather than a cleaner and more refined look (the old-style panels are widely hated among Technic enthusiasts due to their lack of realism and their awkward, unwieldy shape).

 

Just compare 8282 Quad Bike from 2006 with 9392 Quad Bike from 2012. They have around the same piece count (the 2012 version has one piece fewer), and both have working steering, working rear suspension, and a chain-driven engine with a moving piston . But the 2006 version did not have real, working front suspension (it just has some pretend suspension rods made of corrugated pipe), while the 2012 version does. Advantage: 2012.

 

Likewise, compare 8415 Dump Truck from 2005 to 42035 Mining Truck from 2015. 8415 is a gappy mess, and has way fewer pieces despite being the same price. Both sets have steering driven by a gear at the top, and a tipping cargo bed driven by a gear on the side. 8415 has two more wheels, but 42035 has an engine with a moving piston and transmission belt. Again, I think the newer set has the advantage in terms of sheer complexity.

 

The older sets might sometimes LOOK more complex, but gaps and hollow spaces are not the same as actual complexity.

 

The Quad bike, dumping truck and mining truck sets are the SAME!  Lego keeps REMAKING the same sets over and over again.  That's what they did for TECHNIC and NINJAGO.  It's just different colors but still based, or at least the same design.

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and BTW https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

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Even without being able to look and compare past sets to current sets, it stands to reason that things like TECHNIC sets are going to become more complex or functional over time.  One of my first LEGO sets ever had an extremely simple gear system.  Now the TECHNIC theme has all sorts of new pieces to play with and make use of.  Pneumatics, linear actuators, and entire transmission systems are just a few.  The theme has gotten better over time because of it.

 

Same with BIONICLE.  Until 2003, actual functional knees were nothing but a dream.  2004 finally gave us elbows.  Turning heads showed up rather late, too.  The first couple of years of sets, as cool as they were, pale in comparison to some of the later sets with regards to functionality and playability.  And the same is true between Gen1 and Gen2.  The Toa Mata had gearboxes built into a giant single block of a torso.  Later sets ditched the gearboxes and had multi-piece torsos.  Now we have multi-piece torsos with gearboxes.  Old BIONICLE sets had single-piece leg molds with maybe a couple of connection points.  The CCBS has limbs designed to be modular and that allow a variety of connections.

 

And yes, there are fewer pistons and gears and random patterns thrown into everything.  Which I find to be much better, because for one thing it makes the sets' aesthetics blend better, as well as the fact that some of the molded pistons on the old sets just looked silly. (two pistons on the Metru thigh armor?  why?)

 

e:

 

 


The Quad bike, dumping truck and mining truck sets are the SAME!  Lego keeps REMAKING the same sets over and over again.  That's what they did for TECHNIC and NINJAGO.  It's just different colors but still based, or at least the same design.

No, they aren't the same.  Even at a glance it's obvious that the sets have very different builds.  "It's a truck" or "it's a quad" does not equate to duplicating a previous build, but they are going to look similar because they're both meant to look like the same vehicle.

 

Also, even if the builds were 100% recycled, that does nothing to support the idea of "TECHNIC used to be complex and now it isn't"; all would say is that TECHNIC is as complex now as it ever was.

Edited by Bfahome
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Even without being able to look and compare past sets to current sets, it stands to reason that things like TECHNIC sets are going to become more complex or functional over time.  One of my first LEGO sets ever had an extremely simple gear system.  Now the TECHNIC theme has all sorts of new pieces to play with and make use of.  Pneumatics, linear actuators, and entire transmission systems are just a few.  The theme has gotten better over time because of it.

 

Same with BIONICLE.  Until 2003, actual functional knees were nothing but a dream.  2004 finally gave us elbows.  Turning heads showed up rather late, too.  The first couple of years of sets, as cool as they were, pale in comparison to some of the later sets with regards to functionality and playability.  And the same is true between Gen1 and Gen2.  The Toa Mata had gearboxes built into a giant single block of a torso.  Later sets ditched the gearboxes and had multi-piece torsos.  Now we have multi-piece torsos with gearboxes.  Old BIONICLE sets had single-piece leg molds with maybe a couple of connection points.  The CCBS has limbs designed to be modular and that allow a variety of connections.

 

And yes, there are fewer pistons and gears and random patterns thrown into everything.  Which I find to be much better, because for one thing it makes the sets' aesthetics blend better, as well as the fact that some of the molded pistons on the old sets just looked silly. (two pistons on the Metru thigh armor?  why?)

 

e:

 

 

The Quad bike, dumping truck and mining truck sets are the SAME!  Lego keeps REMAKING the same sets over and over again.  That's what they did for TECHNIC and NINJAGO.  It's just different colors but still based, or at least the same design.

No, they aren't the same.  Even at a glance it's obvious that the sets have very different builds.  "It's a truck" or "it's a quad" does not equate to duplicating a previous build, but they are going to look similar because they're both meant to look like the same vehicle.

 

Also, even if the builds were 100% recycled, that does nothing to support the idea of "TECHNIC used to be complex and now it isn't"; all would say is that TECHNIC is as complex now as it ever was.

Look at the instructions again.  And I said BASED on their design, not the other.

A signature is supposed to be this:

 

Jaeger_Gipsy_Danger_Decal_02.png

 

and BTW https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

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I mean, after like three decades of Technic, they're bound to repeat vehicles sometimes. There's just not that many unique vehicles in the world, and some concepts are more popular than others. (Besides, they do make new vehicles occasionally still.) Besides, Aanchir's post was about comparing the same kind of vehicle. You're drawing a conclusion from a flawed sample size.

 

Besides, revisiting concepts gives them the chance to improve upon the previous one. It's like how they're releasing a new ferris wheel for Creator. It gives them a chance to show how they've improved since then.

 

edit: oops I used "besides" three times in a row. forgive my repetition.

Edited by Dina Saruyama
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No, they aren't the same.  Even at a glance it's obvious that the sets have very different builds.  "It's a truck" or "it's a quad" does not equate to duplicating a previous build, but they are going to look similar because they're both meant to look like the same vehicle.

 

Also, even if the builds were 100% recycled, that does nothing to support the idea of "TECHNIC used to be complex and now it isn't"; all would say is that TECHNIC is as complex now as it ever was.

Yeah, I chose those specific sets BECAUSE of their similarities. I actually had to search for quite some time to find sets that were similar enough in size, price, and subject matter to make a fair comparison. And there are plenty of modern sets that do not have any old-school equivalents. The recent Cargo Plane, for instance, is the first plane set to have that size, style, and level of detail — the only planes like it in earlier Technic sets were much smaller and had far fewer functions. Likewise, the Jet Plane set was the first swing-wing aircraft in a LEGO Technic set.

 

Calling Technic sets "the same" because they happen to be based on the same type of vehicle is like calling the 2008 and 2015 Pohatu sets "the same" because they're both humanoid action figures with orangish masks at close to the same height and price. And seeing as this whole topic was based on the idea that G1 and G2 BIONICLE are different, saying they're the same just because they depict similar subject matter seems like a complete reversal.

Edited by Aanchir
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Look at the instructions again.  And I said BASED on their design, not the other.

I don't have to look at the instructions.  I've handled enough TECHNIC to know my way around the pieces, and the builds are in no way copied.

 

If your point is "LEGO releases similar vehicle sets every so often" then congrats, you win I guess?  Dump trucks and quads have more popular appeal and are easier to design than, say, a bucket wheel excavator (please make a bucket wheel excavator set, LEGO) so of course those kinds of sets are going to be come up often.  Star Wars sets are far more guilty of this trend, with a new Millennium Falcon or X-Wing every few years, though now they're expanding a bit more.

 

It's still completely irrelevant to the claim that was made.

Edited by Bfahome
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OpAXNpl.jpg

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Look at the instructions again.  And I said BASED on their design, not the other.

I don't have to look at the instructions.  I've handled enough TECHNIC to know my way around the pieces, and the builds are in no way copied.

 

If your point is "LEGO releases similar vehicle sets every so often" then congrats, you win I guess?  Dump trucks and quads have more popular appeal and are easier to design than, say, a bucket wheel excavator (please make a bucket wheel excavator set, LEGO) so of course those kinds of sets are going to be come up often.  Star Wars sets are far more guilty of this trend, with a new Millennium Falcon or X-Wing every few years, though now they're expanding a bit more.

 

It's still completely irrelevant to the claim that was made.

 

LEGO releases similar vehicle sets every so often

 

Basically.  Now StarWars, we know them.  They basically keep making the same sets in a year or two, probably.

A signature is supposed to be this:

 

Jaeger_Gipsy_Danger_Decal_02.png

 

and BTW https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

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I'd like to derail this current conversation and ask a question to all of you.

 

You say you want the Bionicle 2015 aesthetic to match that of G1, using the same parts and whatnot. What exactly would that look like to you? Wouldn't it just be the exact same thing as in 2001, only now outdated by even Lego's standards?

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No offence, but you could've started up a flame war with that post. And yes I understand what he means. Its YOU who doesn't understand. DecepticonWarrior does not make up facts. I DON'T care? I DO CARE! I do have interest in the truth, sometimes I won't show it. But I'm showing it now. This is on your end, not mine. Period.

 

Again, I'm really sorry you feel that way. But saying that DW doesn't lie doesn't make it true.

 

Just look at the other posts on this page. DW made a bold assertion, that "...bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets." He didn't include a single example of a set or sets that backed up that statement. Numerous members pointed out that the facts contradicted that assertion, and they DID cite sources to back up their claims. Yet both you and DW ignored every single one of those valid points, because you both prefer DW's made-up narrative of the "good old days" to actual reality.

 

There's a term for the phenomenon where a person ignores facts that contradict their preferred worldview: cognitive dissonance. And it has a tendency to have a negative effect on reasoned discussion, because it's incredibly hard for a debate or discussion to be productive when the two sides are operating based on mutually exclusive perceptions of reality. I don't want to start any sort of flame war; I just want you to recognize that ignoring the facts as well as any opinion that challenges your own is no way to go through life.

you and DW ignored every single one

 

No we don't

 

I just want you to recognize that ignoring the facts as well as any opinion that challenges your own is no way to go through life

 

I'm 13. I'm not old enough to know that stuff yet. I am starting an ignore list as DecepticonWarrior said. This HAS gone too far.

Are you copy-pasting arguments from other users, or are you just using phrases because they sound good, because your argument has devolved into 'No, your *insert point here*"

 

You said you are 13, correct? That means the sets you defend so fervently were already past their heyday by the time you could own one. Just going by the math, you were wearing nappies when the Bohrok-Kal were attacking. Metru Nui went by while you were learning how to walk and talk. Voya and Mahri Nui breezed past while Duplo was your recommended play material. G1 ended when you were 7. At 7, you probably had (say) Kiina or Tarduk and were very excited about this new toyline you'd found that promised so much awesome robot fun!

 

And it ended before you could really begin. :'(

 

Now, at the ripe old age of 13, you see that name. The metaphorical 'one that got away'. You held your few G1 sets close, and waited with bated breath... And then saw this. The CCBS Toa. They weren't, aren't like those heroes you barely got to know. How dare the company that owns the toys betray you like that. Years spent listening to how the previous generation of children (me, for example) had grown up with Tahu and Kopaka butting heads, how Macku and Hewkii flirted despite being from opposed environments. How the Great Spirit had battled his evil brother in the giant robot fight to end all giant robot fights, and they reboot it instead of letting you pick up where we left off.

 

Except, you're 13. I was 10 when my parents bought me Kopaka, Lewa and Gali, and I spent years playing with them. I built Warihua so many times I could probably do it by memory. G1 was so much fun to grow up with. But, it's gone. Now, you and your generation have your own Tahu, Gali and the rest. I'm jealous as Karzahni that you got these sets that, despite their flaws, feel like everything G1 had tried to do distilled into something very near perfection. And these are your Toa. Your Pohatu is a boomerang-riding Aussie. Your Tahu has his own surfboard included!!

 

This is your chance to go on a Bionicle Journey, with your own, new, better heroes. In 15 years' time, you'll be sitting where i am, and my kids will be the ones with a New Bionicle. Will they reminisce about something they can barely remember? Will they be here, talking to you about how CCBS made the sets look so sleek and elegant, and their new sets are so much worse?

 

And what will you say to them? Will you agree, and forever entrench in their minds that Lego from their lifetime sucks? Or will you do as the older generation here are trying to to do, and pass the flame of love and affection we had for Bionicle on to you?

 

Here's your choice, Gipsy Danger, and the choice faced by your generation. Reject the fact that TLG brought Bionicle back because it doesn't look like something you can hardly remember right, or embrace it as your Bionicle, one that you can journey with in your own way. Generation 2 is generation 2 not because it's supposed to be my Bionicle again. It's supposed to be your Bionicle. Yours.

 

***

 

And now, having skipped past all of that and now penning an angry reply for me disagreeing, stop. Think. Ask why your generation was given a new story, more complex sets, frankly better treatment than my generation had of TLG didn't want you to love these as I loved my first Kopaka. It went missing once. I, a ten-year-old boy, tore around the house frantically, crying like I'd had my pillow taken before I'm about to go to bed.

 

Here's the tl;dr. This isn't G1, stop judging it like it is supposed to be. It's G2. And it has hardly started. Go, buy a Kopaka and hold that like 10-year-old me clung to that barely-mobile plastic toy and watch. You're more than likely going to get something amazing.

Edited by Regitnui
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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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I'd like to derail this current conversation and ask a question to all of you.

 

You say you want the Bionicle 2015 aesthetic to match that of G1, using the same parts and whatnot. What exactly would that look like to you? Wouldn't it just be the exact same thing as in 2001, only now outdated by even Lego's standards?

 

I am abusing my MODERATOR POWERS to make this the current topic of discussion.

 

Thank you all for your compliance.

Edited by Makaru
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20383310448_7d514f8ffa.jpg

 

Spoiler Alert

 

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You said you are 13, correct? That means the sets you defend so fervently were already past their heyday by the time you could own one. Just going by the math, you were wearing nappies when the Bohrok-Kal were attacking. Metru Nui went by while you were learning how to walk and talk. Voya and Mahri Nui breezed past while Duplo was your recommended play material. G1 ended when you were 7. At 7, you probably had (say) Kiina or Tarduk and were very excited about this new toyline you'd found that promised so much awesome robot fun!

 

 

Amazing post, however he's 13 (my age), meaning he'd've been 8 or 9 when Bionicle ended.

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No offence, but you could've started up a flame war with that post. And yes I understand what he means. Its YOU who doesn't understand. DecepticonWarrior does not make up facts. I DON'T care? I DO CARE! I do have interest in the truth, sometimes I won't show it. But I'm showing it now. This is on your end, not mine. Period.

Again, I'm really sorry you feel that way. But saying that DW doesn't lie doesn't make it true.

 

Just look at the other posts on this page. DW made a bold assertion, that "...bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets." He didn't include a single example of a set or sets that backed up that statement. Numerous members pointed out that the facts contradicted that assertion, and they DID cite sources to back up their claims. Yet both you and DW ignored every single one of those valid points, because you both prefer DW's made-up narrative of the "good old days" to actual reality.

 

There's a term for the phenomenon where a person ignores facts that contradict their preferred worldview: cognitive dissonance. And it has a tendency to have a negative effect on reasoned discussion, because it's incredibly hard for a debate or discussion to be productive when the two sides are operating based on mutually exclusive perceptions of reality. I don't want to start any sort of flame war; I just want you to recognize that ignoring the facts as well as any opinion that challenges your own is no way to go through life.

you and DW ignored every single one

 

No we don't

 

I just want you to recognize that ignoring the facts as well as any opinion that challenges your own is no way to go through life

 

I'm 13. I'm not old enough to know that stuff yet. I am starting an ignore list as DecepticonWarrior said. This HAS gone too far.

Are you copy-pasting arguments from other users, or are you just using phrases because they sound good, because your argument has devolved into 'No, your *insert point here*"

I'm pretty sure the copying and pasting is just his way of quoting specific phrases by other users. It would be a bit clearer if he put quote marks around them to make it clear which words were other people's and which were his, but it sounds like you're getting the wrong message and thinking he's literally trying to use other people's words to defend his position, which is not true.

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I'd like to derail this current conversation and ask a question to all of you.

 

You say you want the Bionicle 2015 aesthetic to match that of G1, using the same parts and whatnot. What exactly would that look like to you? Wouldn't it just be the exact same thing as in 2001, only now outdated by even Lego's standards?

 

I am abusing my MODERATOR POWERS to make this the current topic of discussion.

 

Thank you all for your compliance.

 

Wow. I did this.  B-)

 

Also, I'm not sure if people are complying or not yet...

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