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The difference between OLD and NEW Bionicle


Gipsy Danger

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I'd like to derail this current conversation and ask a question to all of you.

 

You say you want the Bionicle 2015 aesthetic to match that of G1, using the same parts and whatnot. What exactly would that look like to you? Wouldn't it just be the exact same thing as in 2001, only now outdated by even Lego's standards?

 

I am abusing my MODERATOR POWERS to make this the current topic of discussion.

 

Thank you all for your compliance.

 

No it wouldn't be exactly the same.  If I were the designer I would upgrade a few parts to make them stronger and design many new parts that are extremely detailed with functionality.  I would also base my armor and weaponry choices off of modern and past armies.  Then I would make my designs realistic and give them human like proportions depending on that character's purpose within the story.  And if I were allowed to: I would make them all moc quality with diverse designs that have at least 30 points of articulation per character.  And I would look in to making 2 foot tall rahi (if the story allows) as well as vehicles equipped with power functions for the Bionicle series.

 

PLUS I would listen to what the fans have to say no matter how silly or far fetched their idea may be.  I would take everything they say in to consideration.  Because if the kids don't like it no one will buy it.

Edited by Mocmaker
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If you don't like people that use their head and stand up to bullies, then you may not like me because I deal with bullies head on!  

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the classic system is not outdated, its timeless. the fact that people who never really got to use it prefer it over skeleball is proof of that.

Of course Technic is going to be timeless, it's one of LEGO's three main categories of pieces (the other two are Bricks and CCBS).

 

BBS, on the other hand, not so much.

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That's why i asked, Aanchir.

 

@ToaMS: My math might be off. Point is, why get nostalgic about something you're hardly old enough to remember objectively?

 

@DW: I never said he had to love G2 over G1, but that G2 is here, now, and he's at the perfect age to follow it like I followed G1.

 

@Makaru: Yes sir. Using G1's parts would be kinda pointless, since TLG has probably put those molds in some unused warehouse at best. Like it or not, CCBS is here to stay, and though I would love it to start taking more cues from G1's style, I'd not want more G1 parts. That's what Bricklink is for, anyway.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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the classic system is not outdated, its timeless. the fact that people who never really got to use it prefer it over skeleball is proof of that.

No it is not. There is no "proof" of anything. Your opinions are not facts.

 

Everyone in this topic needs to take exactly five steps back and really think if how they are posting is really how they want to be perceived by others.

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Spoiler Alert

 

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That's why i asked, Aanchir.

 

@ToaMS: My math might be off. Point is, why get nostalgic about something you're hardly old enough to remember objectively?

 

@DW: I never said he had to love G2 over G1, but that G2 is here, now, and he's at the perfect age to follow it like I followed G1.

 

@Makaru: Yes sir. Using G1's parts would be kinda pointless, since TLG has probably put those molds in some unused warehouse at best. Like it or not, CCBS is here to stay, and though I would love it to start taking more cues from G1's style, I'd not want more G1 parts. That's what Bricklink is for, anyway.

IKR? How can you have nostalgia of it if you didn't experience the original run? 

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@ToaMS: My math might be off. Point is, why get nostalgic about something you're hardly old enough to remember objectively?

IKR? How can you have nostalgia of it if you didn't experience the original run?

I'm not sure what IKR means, but that's more or less my point. Why complain about G2 not being something you can't have experienced properly? It's like everyone complaining G2 Tahu ran away from the skull spiders because G1 Tahu wouldn't have. G2 isn't G1, stop trying to make it be. The parts are different, sure, and that's a good thing.

  • Upvote 1

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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I'm not sure what IKR means

I Know Right

Thanks, Makaru-sama. It's Appreciated, since this old fogey can barely keep up anymore.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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@ToaMS: My math might be off. Point is, why get nostalgic about something you're hardly old enough to remember objectively?

IKR? How can you have nostalgia of it if you didn't experience the original run?

I'm not sure what IKR means, but that's more or less my point. Why complain about G2 not being something you can't have experienced properly? It's like everyone complaining G2 Tahu ran away from the skull spiders because G1 Tahu wouldn't have. G2 isn't G1, stop trying to make it be. The parts are different, sure, and that's a good thing.

 

IKR = I know right.

 

And that's what I've said so many times! Sure, G1 Tahu wouldn't run from spiders (in my fanfic I'm writing, he snorts when the large threat is a bunch of spiders), but this ISN'T old Tahu. This is new Tahu, the same Tahu who knows nothing of his past (the PoF had to tell him his name because he couldn't remember it), and was told by some random old dude he was to be a hero. Not to mention the swarms of football sized spiders that are everywhere.

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Not even that; this is some random guy holding a fire surfboard who is told everything by his protector guide. Could be hundreds more where he came from, and he's just some unlucky grunt who was pulled through time. Ditto with the others.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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that matoran you see in the background, yup, he has a name and backstory.

 

 

I mean, 9 out of every 10 of those Matoran have pretty much the same exact BS01 article (with the exceptions being those that had sets), which means they pretty much just have a shared backstory with a couple differences thrown in from MNOG/MNOGII, but sure, we can pretend Bionicle was consistently solid on giving every Matoran backstory.

Edited by Dina Saruyama
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a difference between old and new is G1 gave even its minor characters names. that matoran you see in the background, yup, he has a name and backstory.

 

and I loved that!

And it's the same backstory as the Matoran in the next hut over, and all the Matoran in the other villages, because most of the Matoran had no characterization beyond "makes disks" or "sells bamboo poles at absurd prices".

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@ToaMS: My math might be off. Point is, why get nostalgic about something you're hardly old enough to remember objectively?

IKR? How can you have nostalgia of it if you didn't experience the original run?

I'm not sure what IKR means, but that's more or less my point. Why complain about G2 not being something you can't have experienced properly? It's like everyone complaining G2 Tahu ran away from the skull spiders because G1 Tahu wouldn't have. G2 isn't G1, stop trying to make it be. The parts are different, sure, and that's a good thing.

Gipsy Danger is plenty old enough to have experienced G1 BIONICLE. Not from the beginning, perhaps, but from around 2008 to 2010 he was within its target audience. The thing that surprised me about his age is that he was never old enough to experience it from a teen's perspective, which cast a different light on his assertions that it always seemed more teen-oriented to him than G2.

 

But at the same time, this is something I'm seeing a lot of lately. Namely, younger fans who experienced the tail end of G1 are more likely to reject G2 than older fans who experienced G1 from the beginning. And this is not too surprising. Many people in their 20s who are still into BIONICLE, like myself or DeeVee or Makaru or so many others, came to terms with the fact that they were not the theme's core audience many years ago. But younger fans are not so used to being on the fringes of the target audience. Some, in fact, always saw it as more of a teen or adult interest, and expected to grow INTO the core audience, so it can be an understandable shock to learn that during its four-year hiatus they actually grew OUT of the core audience.

 

Also, it can't be ignored that fans who experienced BIONICLE mostly in its later years experienced a much more technically-refined version of it. If you compare the 2015 Tahu to the 2001 Tahu, it's easy to see which is a more advanced toy. But people whose first BIONICLE experiences were with the second half of the theme's initial run aren't as interested in making that comparison. The sets THEY grew up with already had thirteen points of articulation (well, the canister sets did, anyway — villagers actually didn't until just this year). They already HAD more versatile joint pieces and a more versatile shell-and-beam building style than the Toa Mata or Toa Nuva.

 

So fans of these later years did not have a chance to witness firsthand the way BIONICLE's building system and aesthetic changed and evolved over the years. To a fan from 2001, radical changes in aesthetic and building style over time are normal and expected, but to a fan from 2008, they are strange and unexpected. What's more, a fan from 2001 is likely to see a vast improvement between their first BIONICLE sets and the current ones, but to a fan from 2008, the changes between their first sets and the current sets are fewer in number, and those there are, like the return of bright colors and gear functions, might seem more neutral or even negative (since they're going back to features that the later years of BIONICLE had already moved past) than positive.

 

a difference between old and new is G1 gave even its minor characters names. that matoran you see in the background, yup, he has a name and backstory.

 

and I loved that!

 

Well, Mata Nui Online Game II was the first and only place where a lot of background Matoran were actually named (back in 2001 there were only about fourteen named Matoran, and after 2004 we never saw most of those new MNOGII Matoran again), but you're right that there were more named characters even back in 2001 than in 2015. And that's a completely legitimate criticism of the new story.

 

any bio is better than the blank slates that are the protectors, even the villagers are just clones, no diversity, what so ever.

 

The villagers are only clones without personality or diversity because they are literally just crowd filler with no speaking lines. The same could be said of most Matoran characters in the BIONICLE movies. Whole crowds of characters whose only differences were the color of their armor and whether they wore a Ruru, a Rau, a Huna, or a Komau. And the BIONICLE movies had a much bigger budget than these animations simply by virtue of being direct-to-DVD movies. Some traditional cartoons literally just use faceless outlines or silhouettes for crowd characters.

Edited by Aanchir
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Saying it's better to fill your random background characters with four different masks than one mask (already having a story explanation for the latter, mind) comes across to me like those people who insist random background characters are somehow more fleshed out as characters when we know their masks. It's purely cosmetic and doesn't actually change anything.

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at least that was an attempt at diversity.

 

That was a movie with a much larger budget, and those were characters designed to be used in several scenes (the Kolhii stadium, the invasion of Ta-Koro, the invasion of Onu-Koro, the gathering at Kini-Nui, and the descent into Mangaia, not to mention other scenes like the Ko-Koro scene that were cut). In fact, most of those crowd-filler Matoran were actually cloned from two NAMED characters, Hafu and Macku. So by that measure it makes perfect sense to spend slightly more on different mask designs for the movies than for these animations.

 

By contrast, we've literally only seen three scenes that feature generic villagers: the scene showing the villagers fishing and meditating from "The Legend", the scene from "The Prophecy of Heroes" where the fire villagers are panicking, and the scene from "The Arrival" when the fire villagers approach Tahu and bow. Why waste your budget on an assortment of unique character designs that you're barely going to use? Every villager who has appeared in any other scene (the six Protectors and the Protector of Fire's son) has a unique design.

Edited by Aanchir
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I care way more about the one baby villager we saw for five seconds in 2015 Bionicle than anyone in that crowd of clones, personally.

 

Though I guess it is also fair to consider that it's a result of limitations imposed on the medium at that time.

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No offence, but you could've started up a flame war with that post. And yes I understand what he means. Its YOU who doesn't understand. DecepticonWarrior does not make up facts. I DON'T care? I DO CARE! I do have interest in the truth, sometimes I won't show it. But I'm showing it now. This is on your end, not mine. Period.

Again, I'm really sorry you feel that way. But saying that DW doesn't lie doesn't make it true.

 

Just look at the other posts on this page. DW made a bold assertion, that "...bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets." He didn't include a single example of a set or sets that backed up that statement. Numerous members pointed out that the facts contradicted that assertion, and they DID cite sources to back up their claims. Yet both you and DW ignored every single one of those valid points, because you both prefer DW's made-up narrative of the "good old days" to actual reality.

 

There's a term for the phenomenon where a person ignores facts that contradict their preferred worldview: cognitive dissonance. And it has a tendency to have a negative effect on reasoned discussion, because it's incredibly hard for a debate or discussion to be productive when the two sides are operating based on mutually exclusive perceptions of reality. I don't want to start any sort of flame war; I just want you to recognize that ignoring the facts as well as any opinion that challenges your own is no way to go through life.

you and DW ignored every single one

 

No we don't

 

I just want you to recognize that ignoring the facts as well as any opinion that challenges your own is no way to go through life

 

I'm 13. I'm not old enough to know that stuff yet. I am starting an ignore list as DecepticonWarrior said. This HAS gone too far.

Are you copy-pasting arguments from other users, or are you just using phrases because they sound good, because your argument has devolved into 'No, your *insert point here*"

 

You said you are 13, correct? That means the sets you defend so fervently were already past their heyday by the time you could own one. Just going by the math, you were wearing nappies when the Bohrok-Kal were attacking. Metru Nui went by while you were learning how to walk and talk. Voya and Mahri Nui breezed past while Duplo was your recommended play material. G1 ended when you were 7. At 7, you probably had (say) Kiina or Tarduk and were very excited about this new toyline you'd found that promised so much awesome robot fun!

 

And it ended before you could really begin. :'(

 

Now, at the ripe old age of 13, you see that name. The metaphorical 'one that got away'. You held your few G1 sets close, and waited with bated breath... And then saw this. The CCBS Toa. They weren't, aren't like those heroes you barely got to know. How dare the company that owns the toys betray you like that. Years spent listening to how the previous generation of children (me, for example) had grown up with Tahu and Kopaka butting heads, how Macku and Hewkii flirted despite being from opposed environments. How the Great Spirit had battled his evil brother in the giant robot fight to end all giant robot fights, and they reboot it instead of letting you pick up where we left off.

 

Except, you're 13. I was 10 when my parents bought me Kopaka, Lewa and Gali, and I spent years playing with them. I built Warihua so many times I could probably do it by memory. G1 was so much fun to grow up with. But, it's gone. Now, you and your generation have your own Tahu, Gali and the rest. I'm jealous as Karzahni that you got these sets that, despite their flaws, feel like everything G1 had tried to do distilled into something very near perfection. And these are your Toa. Your Pohatu is a boomerang-riding Aussie. Your Tahu has his own surfboard included!!

 

This is your chance to go on a Bionicle Journey, with your own, new, better heroes. In 15 years' time, you'll be sitting where i am, and my kids will be the ones with a New Bionicle. Will they reminisce about something they can barely remember? Will they be here, talking to you about how CCBS made the sets look so sleek and elegant, and their new sets are so much worse?

 

And what will you say to them? Will you agree, and forever entrench in their minds that Lego from their lifetime sucks? Or will you do as the older generation here are trying to to do, and pass the flame of love and affection we had for Bionicle on to you?

 

Here's your choice, Gipsy Danger, and the choice faced by your generation. Reject the fact that TLG brought Bionicle back because it doesn't look like something you can hardly remember right, or embrace it as your Bionicle, one that you can journey with in your own way. Generation 2 is generation 2 not because it's supposed to be my Bionicle again. It's supposed to be your Bionicle. Yours.

 

***

 

And now, having skipped past all of that and now penning an angry reply for me disagreeing, stop. Think. Ask why your generation was given a new story, more complex sets, frankly better treatment than my generation had of TLG didn't want you to love these as I loved my first Kopaka. It went missing once. I, a ten-year-old boy, tore around the house frantically, crying like I'd had my pillow taken before I'm about to go to bed.

 

Here's the tl;dr. This isn't G1, stop judging it like it is supposed to be. It's G2. And it has hardly started. Go, buy a Kopaka and hold that like 10-year-old me clung to that barely-mobile plastic toy and watch. You're more than likely going to get something amazing.

 

Are you copy-pasting arguments from other users, or are you just using phrases because they sound good, because your argument has devolved into 'No, your *insert point here*"

 

Yes because that is where I'm REPLYING TOO!!!  And its not supposed to "look good" You know, quit being so rude and move aLONG.  My first Bionicle was TAHU NUVA(The first ones).

 

Here's your choice, Gipsy Danger, and the choice faced by your generation. Reject the fact that TLG brought Bionicle back because it doesn't look like something you can hardly remember right, or embrace it as your Bionicle, one that you can journey with in your own way. Generation 2 is generation 2 not because it's supposed to be my Bionicle again. It's supposed to be your Bionicle. Yours.

 

I don't have a choice because I stick with the g1s.

 

You said you are 13, correct? That means the sets you defend so fervently were already past their heyday by the time you could own one. Just going by the math, you were wearing nappies when the Bohrok-Kal were attacking. Metru Nui went by while you were learning how to walk and talk. Voya and Mahri Nui breezed past while Duplo was your recommended play material. G1 ended when you were 7. At 7, you probably had (say) Kiina or Tarduk and were very excited about this new toyline you'd found that promised so much awesome robot fun!

 

EXCUSE ME?!  I leaned to walk at 2 yrs old and I wasn't wearing "nappies".  I got Bionicles when I was 3.  THREE!!!  I got the Toa Inika and Piraka when I was 4.  When Bionicle ended, I moved on to NINJAGO.  But Bionicle g1s NEVER EVER left.  I still get them on sites that sell them by other sellers.  

 

And it ended before you could really begin. :'(

 

For you, maybe.  But NOT for me.

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and BTW https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

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a difference between old and new is G1 gave even its minor characters names. that matoran you see in the background, yup, he has a name and backstory.

 

and I loved that!

And it's the same backstory as the Matoran in the next hut over, and all the Matoran in the other villages, because most of the Matoran had no characterization beyond "makes disks" or "sells bamboo poles at absurd prices".

 

That's true of the Matoran introduced in the second MNOLG, yes, and I think we can probably agree that trying to make a character out of every last villager was a mistake when nearly all of them would never play a particular role in the story. However, 2001 and the first MNOLG did give us a rich cast of Matoran who did a range of different things in the storyline, the Chronicler's Company being the most significant. What made it work where it didn't work in the later game was that the number of Matoran characters was kept to reasonably small, allowing them to stand out as individuals, and they got to feature in the overall story, making it worthwhile to know them.

 

Having some Matoran as characters made Mata Nui more interesting and memorable than pretty much any other setting and group of inhabitants that followed, including the reboot's.

Edited by Sir Kohran
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You said you are 13, correct? That means the sets you defend so fervently were already past their heyday by the time you could own one. Just going by the math, you were wearing nappies when the Bohrok-Kal were attacking. Metru Nui went by while you were learning how to walk and talk. Voya and Mahri Nui breezed past while Duplo was your recommended play material. G1 ended when you were 7. At 7, you probably had (say) Kiina or Tarduk and were very excited about this new toyline you'd found that promised so much awesome robot fun!

 

 

Amazing post, however he's 13 (my age), meaning he'd've been 8 or 9 when Bionicle ended.

WHo cares about my age?!  All that matters is that I like the g1s.

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A signature is supposed to be this:

 

Jaeger_Gipsy_Danger_Decal_02.png

 

and BTW https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

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No offence, but you could've started up a flame war with that post. And yes I understand what he means. Its YOU who doesn't understand. DecepticonWarrior does not make up facts. I DON'T care? I DO CARE! I do have interest in the truth, sometimes I won't show it. But I'm showing it now. This is on your end, not mine. Period.

Again, I'm really sorry you feel that way. But saying that DW doesn't lie doesn't make it true.

 

Just look at the other posts on this page. DW made a bold assertion, that "...bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets." He didn't include a single example of a set or sets that backed up that statement. Numerous members pointed out that the facts contradicted that assertion, and they DID cite sources to back up their claims. Yet both you and DW ignored every single one of those valid points, because you both prefer DW's made-up narrative of the "good old days" to actual reality.

 

There's a term for the phenomenon where a person ignores facts that contradict their preferred worldview: cognitive dissonance. And it has a tendency to have a negative effect on reasoned discussion, because it's incredibly hard for a debate or discussion to be productive when the two sides are operating based on mutually exclusive perceptions of reality. I don't want to start any sort of flame war; I just want you to recognize that ignoring the facts as well as any opinion that challenges your own is no way to go through life.

you and DW ignored every single one

 

No we don't

 

I just want you to recognize that ignoring the facts as well as any opinion that challenges your own is no way to go through life

 

I'm 13. I'm not old enough to know that stuff yet. I am starting an ignore list as DecepticonWarrior said. This HAS gone too far.

Are you copy-pasting arguments from other users, or are you just using phrases because they sound good, because your argument has devolved into 'No, your *insert point here*"

 

You said you are 13, correct? That means the sets you defend so fervently were already past their heyday by the time you could own one. Just going by the math, you were wearing nappies when the Bohrok-Kal were attacking. Metru Nui went by while you were learning how to walk and talk. Voya and Mahri Nui breezed past while Duplo was your recommended play material. G1 ended when you were 7. At 7, you probably had (say) Kiina or Tarduk and were very excited about this new toyline you'd found that promised so much awesome robot fun!

 

And it ended before you could really begin. :'(

 

Now, at the ripe old age of 13, you see that name. The metaphorical 'one that got away'. You held your few G1 sets close, and waited with bated breath... And then saw this. The CCBS Toa. They weren't, aren't like those heroes you barely got to know. How dare the company that owns the toys betray you like that. Years spent listening to how the previous generation of children (me, for example) had grown up with Tahu and Kopaka butting heads, how Macku and Hewkii flirted despite being from opposed environments. How the Great Spirit had battled his evil brother in the giant robot fight to end all giant robot fights, and they reboot it instead of letting you pick up where we left off.

 

Except, you're 13. I was 10 when my parents bought me Kopaka, Lewa and Gali, and I spent years playing with them. I built Warihua so many times I could probably do it by memory. G1 was so much fun to grow up with. But, it's gone. Now, you and your generation have your own Tahu, Gali and the rest. I'm jealous as Karzahni that you got these sets that, despite their flaws, feel like everything G1 had tried to do distilled into something very near perfection. And these are your Toa. Your Pohatu is a boomerang-riding Aussie. Your Tahu has his own surfboard included!!

 

This is your chance to go on a Bionicle Journey, with your own, new, better heroes. In 15 years' time, you'll be sitting where i am, and my kids will be the ones with a New Bionicle. Will they reminisce about something they can barely remember? Will they be here, talking to you about how CCBS made the sets look so sleek and elegant, and their new sets are so much worse?

 

And what will you say to them? Will you agree, and forever entrench in their minds that Lego from their lifetime sucks? Or will you do as the older generation here are trying to to do, and pass the flame of love and affection we had for Bionicle on to you?

 

Here's your choice, Gipsy Danger, and the choice faced by your generation. Reject the fact that TLG brought Bionicle back because it doesn't look like something you can hardly remember right, or embrace it as your Bionicle, one that you can journey with in your own way. Generation 2 is generation 2 not because it's supposed to be my Bionicle again. It's supposed to be your Bionicle. Yours.

 

***

 

And now, having skipped past all of that and now penning an angry reply for me disagreeing, stop. Think. Ask why your generation was given a new story, more complex sets, frankly better treatment than my generation had of TLG didn't want you to love these as I loved my first Kopaka. It went missing once. I, a ten-year-old boy, tore around the house frantically, crying like I'd had my pillow taken before I'm about to go to bed.

 

Here's the tl;dr. This isn't G1, stop judging it like it is supposed to be. It's G2. And it has hardly started. Go, buy a Kopaka and hold that like 10-year-old me clung to that barely-mobile plastic toy and watch. You're more than likely going to get something amazing.

 

Are you copy-pasting arguments from other users, or are you just using phrases because they sound good, because your argument has devolved into 'No, your *insert point here*"

 

Yes because that is where I'm REPLYING TOO!!!  And its not supposed to "look good" You know, quit being so rude and move aLONG.  My first Bionicle was TAHU NUVA(The first ones).

 

Here's your choice, Gipsy Danger, and the choice faced by your generation. Reject the fact that TLG brought Bionicle back because it doesn't look like something you can hardly remember right, or embrace it as your Bionicle, one that you can journey with in your own way. Generation 2 is generation 2 not because it's supposed to be my Bionicle again. It's supposed to be your Bionicle. Yours.

 

I don't have a choice because I stick with the g1s.

 

You said you are 13, correct? That means the sets you defend so fervently were already past their heyday by the time you could own one. Just going by the math, you were wearing nappies when the Bohrok-Kal were attacking. Metru Nui went by while you were learning how to walk and talk. Voya and Mahri Nui breezed past while Duplo was your recommended play material. G1 ended when you were 7. At 7, you probably had (say) Kiina or Tarduk and were very excited about this new toyline you'd found that promised so much awesome robot fun!

 

EXCUSE ME?!  I leaned to walk at 2 yrs old and I wasn't wearing "nappies".  I got Bionicles when I was 3.  THREE!!!  I got the Toa Inika and Piraka when I was 4.  When Bionicle ended, I moved on to NINJAGO.  But Bionicle g1s NEVER EVER left.  I still get them on sites that sell them by other sellers.  

 

And it ended before you could really begin. :'(

 

For you, maybe.  But NOT for me.

 

For some reason I have a hard time believing you got into Bionicle at the age of three. Mainly because every toddler I know would have trouble pronouncing the names "Tahu" and "Karzahni", and also because I doubt a three year old could understand the plot of Bionicle.

And nappies are another word for diapers. All two year olds wear them.

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no, old bionicle.

 

"tahu" isn't that hard to pronounce.

 

again, lego might think so, but kids arnt stupid.

 

Note that "Tahu" is still a name being used.

 

Could this kid in question explain the entire story, without leaving out any important details? Any character that affected the final plot? Any MacGuffin that was important? Any location that played any kind of key role?

 

Moreover, should this kid be expected to, and does it really make her stupid if she can't?

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no, old bionicle.

 

"tahu" isn't that hard to pronounce.

 

again, lego might think so, but kids arnt stupid.

 

Note that "Tahu" is still a name being used.

 

Could this kid in question explain the entire story, without leaving out any important details? Any character that affected the final plot? Any MacGuffin that was important? Any location that played any kind of key role?

 

Moreover, should this kid be expected to, and does it really make her stupid if she can't?

 

I'm not saying kids are stupid if they don't know everything about Bionicle, I'm saying that four year olds are at the time trying to remember the alphabet. Their brains are signifigantly smaller than the average Bionicle fans, meaning that they'll have an immense amount of trouble remembering names like Hydraxon and Brutaka.

mark surge, it became an age argument when you kept calling out GD because he was 13.

I didn't call him out, someone else did.

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no, old bionicle.

 

"tahu" isn't that hard to pronounce.

 

again, lego might think so, but kids arnt stupid.

 

Note that "Tahu" is still a name being used.

 

Could this kid in question explain the entire story, without leaving out any important details? Any character that affected the final plot? Any MacGuffin that was important? Any location that played any kind of key role?

 

Moreover, should this kid be expected to, and does it really make her stupid if she can't?

 

I'm not saying kids are stupid if they don't know everything about Bionicle, I'm saying that four year olds are at the time trying to remember the alphabet. Their brains are signifigantly smaller than the average Bionicle fans, meaning that they'll have an immense amount of trouble remembering names like Hydraxon and Brutaka.

 

 

I was replying to DW's comment "kids aren't stupid", not your comment that G1 was too complicated for a children's story. That I agree with.

 

edit: oops, sorry, Mak. Didn't see your comment until after I posted.

Edited by Dina Saruyama
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no, old bionicle.

 

"tahu" isn't that hard to pronounce.

 

again, lego might think so, but kids arnt stupid.

 

Note that "Tahu" is still a name being used.

 

Could this kid in question explain the entire story, without leaving out any important details? Any character that affected the final plot? Any MacGuffin that was important? Any location that played any kind of key role?

 

Moreover, should this kid be expected to, and does it really make her stupid if she can't?

 

I'm not saying kids are stupid if they don't know everything about Bionicle, I'm saying that four year olds are at the time trying to remember the alphabet. Their brains are signifigantly smaller than the average Bionicle fans, meaning that they'll have an immense amount of trouble remembering names like Hydraxon and Brutaka.

 

 

I was replying to DW's comment "kids aren't stupid", not your comment that G1 was too complicated for a children's story. That I agree with.

 

edit: oops, sorry, Mak. Didn't see your comment until after I posted.

 

It's fine.

 

Also, I apologize for starting the argument about old Bio's story.

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No offence, but you could've started up a flame war with that post. And yes I understand what he means. Its YOU who doesn't understand. DecepticonWarrior does not make up facts. I DON'T care? I DO CARE! I do have interest in the truth, sometimes I won't show it. But I'm showing it now. This is on your end, not mine. Period.

Again, I'm really sorry you feel that way. But saying that DW doesn't lie doesn't make it true.

 

Just look at the other posts on this page. DW made a bold assertion, that "...bionicle was a subset of technic, back when technic was actually complex adult-level sets." He didn't include a single example of a set or sets that backed up that statement. Numerous members pointed out that the facts contradicted that assertion, and they DID cite sources to back up their claims. Yet both you and DW ignored every single one of those valid points, because you both prefer DW's made-up narrative of the "good old days" to actual reality.

 

There's a term for the phenomenon where a person ignores facts that contradict their preferred worldview: cognitive dissonance. And it has a tendency to have a negative effect on reasoned discussion, because it's incredibly hard for a debate or discussion to be productive when the two sides are operating based on mutually exclusive perceptions of reality. I don't want to start any sort of flame war; I just want you to recognize that ignoring the facts as well as any opinion that challenges your own is no way to go through life.

you and DW ignored every single one

 

No we don't

 

I just want you to recognize that ignoring the facts as well as any opinion that challenges your own is no way to go through life

 

I'm 13. I'm not old enough to know that stuff yet. I am starting an ignore list as DecepticonWarrior said. This HAS gone too far.

Are you copy-pasting arguments from other users, or are you just using phrases because they sound good, because your argument has devolved into 'No, your *insert point here*"

 

You said you are 13, correct? That means the sets you defend so fervently were already past their heyday by the time you could own one. Just going by the math, you were wearing nappies when the Bohrok-Kal were attacking. Metru Nui went by while you were learning how to walk and talk. Voya and Mahri Nui breezed past while Duplo was your recommended play material. G1 ended when you were 7. At 7, you probably had (say) Kiina or Tarduk and were very excited about this new toyline you'd found that promised so much awesome robot fun!

 

And it ended before you could really begin. :'(

 

Now, at the ripe old age of 13, you see that name. The metaphorical 'one that got away'. You held your few G1 sets close, and waited with bated breath... And then saw this. The CCBS Toa. They weren't, aren't like those heroes you barely got to know. How dare the company that owns the toys betray you like that. Years spent listening to how the previous generation of children (me, for example) had grown up with Tahu and Kopaka butting heads, how Macku and Hewkii flirted despite being from opposed environments. How the Great Spirit had battled his evil brother in the giant robot fight to end all giant robot fights, and they reboot it instead of letting you pick up where we left off.

 

Except, you're 13. I was 10 when my parents bought me Kopaka, Lewa and Gali, and I spent years playing with them. I built Warihua so many times I could probably do it by memory. G1 was so much fun to grow up with. But, it's gone. Now, you and your generation have your own Tahu, Gali and the rest. I'm jealous as Karzahni that you got these sets that, despite their flaws, feel like everything G1 had tried to do distilled into something very near perfection. And these are your Toa. Your Pohatu is a boomerang-riding Aussie. Your Tahu has his own surfboard included!!

 

This is your chance to go on a Bionicle Journey, with your own, new, better heroes. In 15 years' time, you'll be sitting where i am, and my kids will be the ones with a New Bionicle. Will they reminisce about something they can barely remember? Will they be here, talking to you about how CCBS made the sets look so sleek and elegant, and their new sets are so much worse?

 

And what will you say to them? Will you agree, and forever entrench in their minds that Lego from their lifetime sucks? Or will you do as the older generation here are trying to to do, and pass the flame of love and affection we had for Bionicle on to you?

 

Here's your choice, Gipsy Danger, and the choice faced by your generation. Reject the fact that TLG brought Bionicle back because it doesn't look like something you can hardly remember right, or embrace it as your Bionicle, one that you can journey with in your own way. Generation 2 is generation 2 not because it's supposed to be my Bionicle again. It's supposed to be your Bionicle. Yours.

 

***

 

And now, having skipped past all of that and now penning an angry reply for me disagreeing, stop. Think. Ask why your generation was given a new story, more complex sets, frankly better treatment than my generation had of TLG didn't want you to love these as I loved my first Kopaka. It went missing once. I, a ten-year-old boy, tore around the house frantically, crying like I'd had my pillow taken before I'm about to go to bed.

 

Here's the tl;dr. This isn't G1, stop judging it like it is supposed to be. It's G2. And it has hardly started. Go, buy a Kopaka and hold that like 10-year-old me clung to that barely-mobile plastic toy and watch. You're more than likely going to get something amazing.

 

Are you copy-pasting arguments from other users, or are you just using phrases because they sound good, because your argument has devolved into 'No, your *insert point here*"

 

Yes because that is where I'm REPLYING TOO!!!  And its not supposed to "look good" You know, quit being so rude and move aLONG.  My first Bionicle was TAHU NUVA(The first ones).

 

Here's your choice, Gipsy Danger, and the choice faced by your generation. Reject the fact that TLG brought Bionicle back because it doesn't look like something you can hardly remember right, or embrace it as your Bionicle, one that you can journey with in your own way. Generation 2 is generation 2 not because it's supposed to be my Bionicle again. It's supposed to be your Bionicle. Yours.

 

I don't have a choice because I stick with the g1s.

 

You said you are 13, correct? That means the sets you defend so fervently were already past their heyday by the time you could own one. Just going by the math, you were wearing nappies when the Bohrok-Kal were attacking. Metru Nui went by while you were learning how to walk and talk. Voya and Mahri Nui breezed past while Duplo was your recommended play material. G1 ended when you were 7. At 7, you probably had (say) Kiina or Tarduk and were very excited about this new toyline you'd found that promised so much awesome robot fun!

 

EXCUSE ME?!  I leaned to walk at 2 yrs old and I wasn't wearing "nappies".  I got Bionicles when I was 3.  THREE!!!  I got the Toa Inika and Piraka when I was 4.  When Bionicle ended, I moved on to NINJAGO.  But Bionicle g1s NEVER EVER left.  I still get them on sites that sell them by other sellers.  

 

And it ended before you could really begin. :'(

 

For you, maybe.  But NOT for me.

 

For some reason I have a hard time believing you got into Bionicle at the age of three. Mainly because every toddler I know would have trouble pronouncing the names "Tahu" and "Karzahni", and also because I doubt a three year old could understand the plot of Bionicle.

And nappies are another word for diapers. All two year olds wear them.

 

Well I am his older brother so I was into it first and I am pretty sure he wasn't into Bionicle at the age of three maybe a bit later.  Now can we please get back on topic?

If you don't like people that use their head and stand up to bullies, then you may not like me because I deal with bullies head on!  

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EXCUSE ME?!  I leaned to walk at 2 yrs old and I wasn't wearing "nappies".  I got Bionicles when I was 3.  THREE!!!  I got the Toa Inika and Piraka when I was 4.  When Bionicle ended, I moved on to NINJAGO.  But Bionicle g1s NEVER EVER left.  I still get them on sites that sell them by other sellers.

Okay, I was confused about you thinking BIONICLE was aimed at teens earlier, but now, knowing how early you got into it, it makes a lot more sense to me. After all, it was aimed at an older audience than you for at least four years, so it's easy to see how you could keep thinking it was aimed at an older audience for you for the three years after you became a part of the theme's core audience.

 

But this should also be a strong indication that BIONICLE was always aimed at a younger audience than traditional Technic. By your own admission, the G1 sets were simple enough for a particularly advanced three-year-old to enjoy. I know kids aren't stupid (and LEGO knows it too), but there were lots of kids my age at my seventh birthday party who struggled to put the Throwbots sets together according to the instructions. That is why LEGO's recommended age range is so important — to give parents and gift-givers a general idea of what kids will be old enough (or young enough) to fully appreciate. It is not intended to suggest that older or younger kids CAN'T enjoy a set, just to guide them towards sets that a particular kid is most likely to enjoy.

 

The CCBS, for what it's worth, is designed to be enjoyed by kids as young as five, but all CCBS sets to date have had a minimum recommended age of six or higher. It's the same way LEGO System bricks are for ages four and up, but all LEGO City sets are recommended for ages five and higher: the complexity of the individual sets has as much influence on what age they're best for as the complexity of the building system as a whole. A four-year-old kid has probably mastered stacking, but other types of building might still be a challenge. A five-year-old kid has probably mastered the basics of sideways building as well as clipping parts together, but might not be ready for the complexities of Technic building, where the order in which you put parts together can have a huge impact on whether they work or not.

 

Recommended age ranges are guidelines, not hard and fast rules, but that's not to say they don't have any meaning at all. And obviously, LEGO is always learning what kids might or might not be capable of. Over the years, LEGO has learned that even younger kids are often looking for a challenge in their sets. That's a big part of why the Protector of Fire has a lower recommended age range than Nuhrii despite having two and a half times as many pieces and a much more complex build. Back in 2004, LEGO had doubts that a typical six-year-old would enjoy a set of that complexity, or that a 15-year-old would prefer a more complex Technic set. But today LEGO knows that kids enjoy a challenge far more than they'd given them credit for back then, and so the recommended age ranges have been adjusted to reflect that new knowledge.

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