2015 Toa Genders

[Vezon shall Return]

 

 

 

the original two male characters being obviously platonic relationship though, since Kopaka sort of liked Gali and had a rivalry with Tahu over her friendship.

 

I find this perplexing considering I've read/watched the story materials from 2001-2003 repeatedly and found nothing to suggest Kopaka having any kind of strong feelings towards Gali. They just... weren't characters that interacted much, much less had the kind of interactions that would suggest Kopaka held her in any higher regard than, say, Onua. 

 

Did you read Tale of the Toa?

 

'I had a vision,' Kopaka said. 

(he describes the vision)

Tahu snorted. 'And when exactly were you going to let us in on this secret?'

'He just did, Tahu,' Gali pointed out quietly. 'And that's fine. There was no need of knowing it until now.'

Kopaka gazed at her, touched that she'd come to his defence.

 

 

"touched that she'd come to his defense" doesn't necessarily equal "totally obsessing over her friendship". There are many times I've been grateful for someone defending me; that doesn't mean I hold them in higher regards than my other friends.

 

 

I never said obsessed, only that he did rivel Tahu with his friendship with Gali. Kind of like a lighter or platonic version of Edward and Jacob with Bella. (Which even then was still a better love triangle than Twilight... lol even though that love was strictly platonic.) lol It's sort of what made those three a little more interesting to read about than their interactions with Onua or Lewa... although Pohatu was pretty interesting with his interactions with Kopaka, but not really anyone else. 

Edited May 16, 2015 by Vezon shall Return

[Sir Kohran]

 

 

 

the original two male characters being obviously platonic relationship though, since Kopaka sort of liked Gali and had a rivalry with Tahu over her friendship.

 

I find this perplexing considering I've read/watched the story materials from 2001-2003 repeatedly and found nothing to suggest Kopaka having any kind of strong feelings towards Gali. They just... weren't characters that interacted much, much less had the kind of interactions that would suggest Kopaka held her in any higher regard than, say, Onua. 

 

Did you read Tale of the Toa?

 

'I had a vision,' Kopaka said. 

(he describes the vision)

Tahu snorted. 'And when exactly were you going to let us in on this secret?'

'He just did, Tahu,' Gali pointed out quietly. 'And that's fine. There was no need of knowing it until now.'

Kopaka gazed at her, touched that she'd come to his defence.

 

 

"touched that she'd come to his defense" doesn't necessarily equal "totally obsessing over her friendship". There are many times I've been grateful for someone defending me; that doesn't mean I hold them in higher regards than my other friends.

 

Obviously it's not 'totally obsessing', but he clearly holds her in some regard, certainly more than the others whom he spends most of the book being irritated at.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Sir Kohran

[Vezon shall Return]

 

 

 

 

the original two male characters being obviously platonic relationship though, since Kopaka sort of liked Gali and had a rivalry with Tahu over her friendship.

 

I find this perplexing considering I've read/watched the story materials from 2001-2003 repeatedly and found nothing to suggest Kopaka having any kind of strong feelings towards Gali. They just... weren't characters that interacted much, much less had the kind of interactions that would suggest Kopaka held her in any higher regard than, say, Onua. 

 

Did you read Tale of the Toa?

 

'I had a vision,' Kopaka said. 

(he describes the vision)

Tahu snorted. 'And when exactly were you going to let us in on this secret?'

'He just did, Tahu,' Gali pointed out quietly. 'And that's fine. There was no need of knowing it until now.'

Kopaka gazed at her, touched that she'd come to his defence.

 

 

"touched that she'd come to his defense" doesn't necessarily equal "totally obsessing over her friendship". There are many times I've been grateful for someone defending me; that doesn't mean I hold them in higher regards than my other friends.

 

Obviously it's not 'totally obsessing', but he clearly holds her in some regard, certainly more than the others whom he spends most of the book being irritated at.

 

 

Oh another thing, I've always viewed Kopaka as sort of the Batman of the group, while Tahu as a more tempermental Superman. Gali to me had always been more of the Wonderwoman character (the only girl on the team).

 

With that in mind, if anyone watched the Justice League cartoon from Cartoon Network, they are similar to those versions of those three characters. Which does go back to the main topic, should there be gender switching to main characters?

 

I mean, the Justice league's main members only had Wonderwomen, why would they need to change any of the main characters of the original members to girls? Why not just add more female characters to the new story? Like in the Justice League Unlimited cartoon? 

Edited May 16, 2015 by Vezon shall Return

[believe victims]

I mean, the Justice league's main members only had Wonderwomen, why would they need to change any of the main characters of the original members to girls? Why not just add more female characters to the new story? Like in the Justice League Unlimited cartoon? 

 

Because there's a point when you have too many main protagonists. As it stands now, to even out the current standings, we would need four female Toa added to the team. Not only is that stretching kinda thin as far as elements as intuitive as the classic six (honestly, Stone and Ice are already redundant elements as it is), that bumps it up to ten main protagonists. Six is already on the higher end as far as main protagonists of a story go; ten would be downright unmanageable without stretching the already thin time for characterization perhaps to the point at which protagonists fall by the wayside.

 

Hence why some people prefer the idea of starting out with a reasonably-sized party with an even gender ratio.

[emily]

 

 

 

the original two male characters being obviously platonic relationship though, since Kopaka sort of liked Gali and had a rivalry with Tahu over her friendship.

 

I find this perplexing considering I've read/watched the story materials from 2001-2003 repeatedly and found nothing to suggest Kopaka having any kind of strong feelings towards Gali. They just... weren't characters that interacted much, much less had the kind of interactions that would suggest Kopaka held her in any higher regard than, say, Onua. 

 

Did you read Tale of the Toa?

 

'I had a vision,' Kopaka said. 

(he describes the vision)

Tahu snorted. 'And when exactly were you going to let us in on this secret?'

'He just did, Tahu,' Gali pointed out quietly. 'And that's fine. There was no need of knowing it until now.'

Kopaka gazed at her, touched that she'd come to his defence.

 

 

"touched that she'd come to his defense" doesn't necessarily equal "totally obsessing over her friendship". There are many times I've been grateful for someone defending me; that doesn't mean I hold them in higher regards than my other friends.

 

It seemed fairly clear to me that Hapka was playing up a love triangle between Tahu-Kopaka-Gali, if a very subtle one. Kopaka is very pleased when Gali and Tahu get in their spat over the burning tree, then gets thrown into a funk when she starts treating Tahu kindly again. There's even a bit where Kopaka asks himself why he cares so much what Gali thinks of Tahu (because he WORKS ALONE and NEEDS NO ONE), so I'd totally say he has a crush going on.

 

That said, it really is only that one book that ever touched on romance between the Toa; even the following books by Hapka basically ignore it.

[Vakama35]

I wouldn't want existing characters to be changed. I'd rather we get new characters that are female.

 

This.

[Mr. Cup of Fail]

Me and my friends was talking about this on Skype, of how funny it would be if we one day see radical feminism attack bionicle for only having one or two female character, and that Lego have to make half of the characters being female.

I just imagine what if Lewa and Onua are female, with a pink armored Lewa and a BBW Onua XD

[ToaKapura1234]

Why are there 31 votes for no but 32 for none?

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

 

Me and my friends was talking about this on Skype, of how funny it would be if we one day see radical feminism attack bionicle for only having one or two female character, and that Lego have to make half of the characters being female.

I just imagine what if Lewa and Onua are female, with a pink armored Lewa and a BBW Onua XD

 

 

my eyes, they rolled clean out the back of my skull, look at them, they are headed straight out the door. someone, stop them, please.

 

(what i'm getting at is you might want to take a look at what you said, think about it a little, :t)

[Mr. Cup of Fail]

If you are talking about feminism, I'm talking about the radical ones, not the normal feminism that want equality.

[believe victims]

If you are talking about feminism, I'm talking about the radical ones, not the normal feminism that want equality.

 

...wanting half, as in 50%, as in the same amount as there are female people in the real world, of a cast of characters to be female isn't equality?

[fishers64]

Radical feminism is the belief that females are superior to males, therefore female interests are superior to male interests.

 

The 5:1 gender ratio could be viewed as a male interest, which radical feminists would be opposed to on principle.

 

But they probably wouldn't insist on a 3:3 gender ratio, they would probably want to make EVERYONE on the team female. Either that or make sure that the 3 girls are in leading roles and the guys only get bit parts.

 

I could post a very long lecture on why all of that is a logical fallacy and is 100% dead wrong, but I think you all know that without me having to say it.

[believe victims]

Radical feminism is the belief that females are superior to males, therefore female interests are superior to male interests.

 

I have literally never seen anyone who actually believes this, or really anything else in your post. It feels like a strawman that's been put up so many times everyone's convinced it's actually a real person, even though even a cursory examination shows the head is a pumpkin and there's straw poking out the seams.

[Mr. Cup of Fail]

I mean with Radical feminism are also ranting about the most little of things, I'm pretty sure that not one feminist care that bionicle have two female character or LEGO City have no female construction worker.

[believe victims]

I mean with Radical feminism are also ranting about the most little of things, I'm pretty sure that not one feminist care that bionicle have two female character or LEGO City have no female construction worker.

 

Except LEGO City is ostensibly a gender-neutral line, yet still historically the number of male minifigures significantly overpowers the female minifigures. That is not a nitpick; that's pointing out that even lines that should in theory be neutral are geared towards a male audience, with the assumption of male as the default. That is a symptom of larger problems.

 

It may not matter much to you, but I fail to see how that makes it insignificant to discuss.

[Noxryn]

It's a reboot, so technically speaking these aren't the same characters as the G1 series anyway. Yes, people knew various characters as strictly the first gender they were ever created as, but it created a massive imbalance within the original cast that lead to a 1 in 6, if that, female to male ratio. That's not good representation no matter what canonical excuse you sit down to make for it. And just because "that's how it's always been" also doesn't make it a pro to the series as a whole.

Plenty of girls and women enjoy the series, so there should be a wider variance of female characters within the main cast, arguably some of the most iconic characters in the series, rather than just one character who fits a fairly common archetype when it comes to female heroes in the first place (Maybe G2 worked on that a little, I don't know).

There's already male versions of the characters in the old series for any male fan to identify with easily, to anyone who'd be all "but I won't be able to identify with Tahu anymore if they made her a female character in this iteration" but there's no female character(s) for girls and women to easily identify with from the get go.

 

I'll never see what's wrong with changing genders of these characters to make it more representative of the diversity within the fanbase, granted it doesn't hurt the story and it just gives more people more characters to easily identify with. Then again, this is S&T so I won't be shocked if a bunch of canon waving nerds come through going "oh the sanctity of the G1 precedents!!!!"

 

 

[Klack]

 

Me and my friends was talking about this on Skype, of how funny it would be if we one day see radical feminism attack bionicle for only having one or two female character, and that Lego have to make half of the characters being female.

I just imagine what if Lewa and Onua are female, with a pink armored Lewa and a BBW Onua XD

 

Wait...Wut.

[Tufi Piyufi]

There's plenty in this topic to discuss without hypothesizing about a rampaging army of "radical" feminists. The tangent gets dropped here, folks.

[fishers64]

Edited May 17, 2015 by fishers64

[GSR]

Fishers, while I get you might have been writing that post before you saw Tufi's, drop the topic.  If folks want to discuss the various subfactions, extremes, and definitions of a wide-ranging social movement that's spanned hundreds of years, they probably shouldn't do it in a topic aimed at asking how people would feel about a character trait in a children's toyline being tweaked.

Edited May 17, 2015 by GSR
Was less than charitable with my first read of things. Point stands.

[Klack]

I think there should be an additional female member to the current 2015 Toa team with a very unique, new color scheme.

[SailorQuaoar]

I think there should be an additional female member to the current 2015 Toa team with a very unique, new color scheme.

I'd love to see Lightning come back as an element. Blue is usually the color of Lightning in Lego's other lines (like Hero Factory and Ninjago) instead of Water. Since Water is now azure, maybe medium blue can be used for Lightning.

 

I'd be ok with a Lightning Toa having Surge's color scheme (medium blue with trans lime bones) If Kopaka and Gali can both have trans light blue, then a Lightning Toa and Pohatu can both have trans lime.

 

And now that gives me an idea.

What if we could make our own crowd-sourced Toa? Maybe if the idea gets popular enough, the character might make a cameo in the new story? (I wish)

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

 

I think there should be an additional female member to the current 2015 Toa team with a very unique, new color scheme.

I'd love to see Lightning come back as an element. Blue is usually the color of Lightning in Lego's other lines (like Hero Factory and Ninjago) instead of Water. Since Water is now azure, maybe medium blue can be used for Lightning.

 

I'd be ok with a Lightning Toa having Surge's color scheme (medium blue with trans lime bones) If Kopaka and Gali can both have trans light blue, then a Lightning Toa and Pohatu can both have trans lime.

 

And now that gives me an idea.

What if we could make our own crowd-sourced Toa? Maybe if the idea gets popular enough, the character might make a cameo in the new story? (I wish)

 

 

Donate $10,000 to get your Toa canonized, $100,000 to guarantee they survive more than one panel.

[Mr. Cup of Fail]

You just have to wait until that one day of the solar eclipse, with the fox saying "destroy that what dose the fox say song", when the milk that you just drink gone bad, that is when the character will be in the new story.

[Irrie]

You just have to wait until that one day of the solar eclipse, with the fox saying "destroy that what dose the fox say song", when the milk that you just drink gone bad, that is when the character will be in the new story.

I think that that sentence stimulated my pineal gland. 

[Sir Kohran]

Plenty of girls and women enjoy the series, so there should be a wider variance of female characters within the main cast

 

Does the gender ratio of the cast need to reflect that of the fanbase? The Harry Potter series is enjoyed by as many or even more females as/than males, yet the main cast of that is still mostly male.

 

rather than just one character who fits a fairly common archetype when it comes to female heroes in the first place (Maybe G2 worked on that a little, I don't know).

 

The reboot is actually worse when it comes to female numbers, because there are no longer any clearly female villager characters as there was in the first series with Nokama, Maku and Hahli. This leaves Gali as the only female character in the whole reboot, unless the Protector of Water is ever confirmed as female.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Sir Kohran

[Archon~]

who is coming up with these?
Strong no, and none.

Edited May 18, 2015 by bonesiii
Please do not use inappropriate language. -bones

[Ballom Nom Nom]

I've seen some MOCs and headcanons of a female Onua, which is definitely an interesting direction to take. The element of Earth can be as feminine as it is masculine — note the "mother Earth" archetype — and making one of the strongest characters female could help throw off some stereotypes. On the other hand, Onua being the wisest of the Toa means that suddenly both of the team's main "voices of reason" would be female, which could end up reinforcing other stereotypes (men being rash and thoughtless and women being more caring and thoughtful). So you might then need a more rash and aggressive female character (like a gender-swapped Tahu or Lewa) to help balance things out.

I voted for Tahu, Lewa, and Onua, and your post is an excellent summation of why the latter as a female character would be great. But yeah, that would definitely need to be contrasted with a female Tahu (and also we get a female leader in the process!). And also Lewa too, because it seems pretty fitting in general. Actually, Lewa could be either male or female. The most important two to change the gender of are Tahu and Onua, at any rate.

 

~B~

[Alyska]

And I have yet to see a canonically gay LEGO character.

 

 

Well, Dumbledore made it into the Lego Movie. And he was spending a lot of time with Gandalf... 

 

Yeah, that's probably as close as we'll get for another ten years or so.

 

 

As great as it would be to see trans representation, I don't think Bionicle is the best place for Lego to introduce it. Make it a human character, a normal human, who is a fully fledged character and not a walking punchline, who just happens to be trans. I've seen complaints from actual trans people over things like the trans-Tamaru headcanon, which I initially thought of as quite progressive, but now realise might offend people by playing to certain stereotypes, as well as the overall problem of using a little green robot to represent transgender people instead of an actual human person.

 

 

Re the actual topic- I'd quite like a female Pohatu- that is, a female version of G1 Pohatu. Toph in ATLA came close, but I really just want a big, boisterous female character that gets along with everyone and has a very blunt approach to things like morality and problem solving, cracking jokes along the way.

 

I tend to agree on the idea of starting again with a new cast over changing the genders, though. It's nice when female characters can exist in their own right rather than being genderswapped knockoffs of somebody else (looking at you, DC and Marvel...)

Edited May 22, 2015 by Alyska

[Makaru]

Switch literally everyone opposite, except Lewa. They should most deff be fluid.