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Canonization Poll: Toa of Plasma's Gender

Plasma Gender Canonization Poll  

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Please note that, while Su-Matoran's gender has not appeared in any official media, they were confirmed as male by Greg previously. He may not approve even if we do, but this poll is to decide whether we should send it along.

 

EDIT: From the other topic:

 

 

As for the Plasma element message, here's my take:

 

"Hey Greg. A group of fans on BZPower have discovered that the element of Plasma has never been referred to with gendered pronouns in any official media, and thought it would be a good opportunity to have another female element.

 

Previously, you stated:

 

Oct 8 2006, 10:00 AM

 

4) Which gender do the Toa of Gravity and the Toa of Plasma have?

 

 

4) I would tend to think they are both male.

 

Nov 12 2007, 12:10 PM

 

4. What gender are Toa of Sonics?

 

4b. Toa of Plasma?

 

4) Both are male.

 

However, as I have mentioned, in the written media, no gendered pronouns were used, so if Plasma could be canonized as female, we would be extremely grateful!

 

For reference, here are the passages in question:

Bionicle Legends (p37):

Quote

Then he remembered a night long ago, an island far to the south, and a Toa of Plasma who didn't beg quite loud enough or share quite enough information. Zaktan had dragged the Toa off. Less than two minutes later, the Piraka leader returned alone. Whenu Avak went to check the situation, all he could find of the Toa were bits of armor, a mask that looked half-devoured, and puddles of something Avak preferred not to try and identify.

Dark Mirror ( chapter 8):
Quote

Kojol fell next, his armor crushed by the Toa's power and his essence incinerated by a Toa of Plasma.

"

 

I'd like you to also mention that not everyone agrees with this, Liuth and I have explicitly said this in this thread but we don't know who else thinks this way. Maxim and Voxumo suggested doing a poll, that would give us an idea of what people think about this proposal.

That should give a slightly better idea of what Greg will see. (Though they should fix the OGD quote, but whatevers. :P)

Edited by fishers64
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I voted yes. I have no problem with it being a female element. 


Everyone is one choice away from being the bad guy in another person's story.


 


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I'm ultimately leaning towards a regular "no", although I'm pretty ambivalent. It does very little to actually change or somehow enhance the canon or the discussions we're having about it, but it's also not the worst of retcons, or inherently pointless like background Mangai characters.

 

In conclusion: meh.

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Sorry, fishers64, but I don't think you made a convincing enough case to argue why it should be a female element. Can we emphasize the fact that there were only two parts in written canon that portrayed Toa of Plasma, both of which didn't use gendered pronouns? This would help give casual viewers a little more insight into why we think it's a good idea to canonise the Plasma element as female. I understand that you did put the proposal letter, but you did so with little context and expect people to read and understand why we are doing this. 

 

Apologies if I come off as overly abrasive - I just want to get this right. I have a feeling a lot of people are going to have a kneejerk "no" reaction because of the previous canonisation debates, and as a result, we wouldn't be able to generate meaningful thought involving their decision to support or oppose the motion. 

So here's why we believe the canonising Plasma as a female element is worth pursuing:

  • Firstly, as we all know, the gender ratio of the Toa in the BIONICLE universe is skewed heavily towards a male species, and we feel that canonising this would help balance the ratio.
  • The retcon will be unobtrusive. There were only two parts in written canon that portrayed Toa of Plasma, both of which did not use gendered pronouns. If this motion is followed through, the only thing we have to "retcon" is Greg's answers on the LEGO Message Boards.
  • This opens opportunities for canon-conforming fanfictions to have more female Toa. 

 

Why would canonising Plasma as a female element be detrimental/pointless?:

  • This does in no way help balance the gender ratio of existing characters in the old generation of BIONICLE, due to its inconsequential nature.
  • This negates the canonicity of previously canon-conforming fanfictions starring Toa of Plasma.
  • We should be focusing on the Gen 2 BIONICLE gender ratio instead - the one that is more current and meaningful to change. (Note that both goals can be achieved, and neither choice is exclusive for one another. I'm putting this point up because a lot of people have mentioned it)

 

Overall, I don't think this is such a consequential issue. Nothing much changes, and your attitude can go one of two ways: 

 

1) Might as well canonise it, since it's a simple and unobtrusive canonisation that shouldn't upset too many people. 

2) There's no point in canonising it since it doesn't change anything.

Make of this what you will, but remember to vote!

Edited by Iku
  • Upvote 2

"Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, 'No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back,' it never WOULD have come back."

 

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I think it's a good idea to have more females in the BIONICLE universe, and this seems like an easy enough change.

 

But it is 2015, right? G1 BIONICLE has been dead for four-ish years, and the new BIONICLE line has been running for almost five months. There's really no point to bothering Greg to canonize bits and pieces of old information that don't really affect anyone. If you'd suggested this while BIONICLE was still running, or even suggested it a year or two after it ended, I'd be a solid yes. But now? I can't really muster up any enthusiasm, unfortunately.

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I think it's a good idea to have more females in the BIONICLE universe, and this seems like an easy enough change.

 

But it is 2015, right? G1 BIONICLE has been dead for four-ish years, and the new BIONICLE line has been running for almost five months. There's really no point to bothering Greg to canonize bits and pieces of old information that don't really affect anyone. If you'd suggested this while BIONICLE was still running, or even suggested it a year or two after it ended, I'd be a solid yes. But now? I can't really muster up any enthusiasm, unfortunately.

I was going to say "inb4 Gen1 is over," but it looks like it's too late. 

 

Listen, just because there's a reboot doesn't mean that it is illegal to discuss what came before it. A new Star Wars movie is being made, are there still people who talk about the other two trilogies? Yes. There are countless Marvel reboots with the Cinematic Universe, but are there people who still talk about the older media? Yes. 

I don't know where this mentality of making it mandatory to focus only on the new generation came from, but I sure can't wait for it to leave because of how ridiculous it is. 

Edited by The Irrational Rock
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bZpOwEr

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I don't know where this mentality of making it mandatory to focus only on the new generation came from, but I sure can't wait for it to leave because of how ridiculous it is.

Nobody is saying to not talk about G1, but this is a bit more than just talk. Will this change actually affect the discussions of G1? Will this erase or somehow mollify the relatively poor characterization of females in G1? Will this make a difference to people who come in via G2 and explore G1? Likely no to all of the above.

 

Changing the history doesn't help us learn from it and apply the things we've seen and learned to the future, which is what people mean when they say to focus on G2.

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Sorry, fishers64, but I don't think you made a convincing enough case to argue why it should be a female element.

It's not my position to argue a case. When running an objective poll, it's best not to preemptively bias your results by trying to force your opinion down everyone's throat. Otherwise, there will be complaining later that the poll was bad, and that the dissenting opinion was stifled, etc.

 

I understand that you want Plasma to be a female element, and thanks for coming in here to post a case. That's good. But I'd like to let the people decide.

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Sorry, fishers64, but I don't think you made a convincing enough case to argue why it should be a female element.

It's not my position to argue a case. When running an objective poll, it's best not to preemptively bias your results by trying to force your opinion down everyone's throat. Otherwise, there will be complaining later that the poll was bad, and that the dissenting opinion was stifled, etc.

 

I understand that you want Plasma to be a female element, and thanks for coming in here to post a case. That's good. But I'd like to let the people decide.

 

 

I think I started the message on the wrong foot - notice that later I do include points to help clear up the situation, as well as try to provide as much information on both sides of the argument as possible. 

 

Take note that my intention was to inform, not force my opinion down someone's throat. I apologise for the misleading opening - it certainly shows a bias that should not be present in such a poll. However, I will leave it up there so people can see what we're actually commenting on. 


"Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, 'No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back,' it never WOULD have come back."

 

-Greg Farshtey

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I just got done reading through all of the topic of whether or not Plantlife Matoran should be female. I have to say, that did play a heavy influence on my "Strong Yes." I tell you, though, there was no mistake when the topic was labeled 'hot'. 

 

I'm not as vehemently opposed to the unequal gender ratio as many others are. The whole line was designed for boys: it was started for Lego to jump into action toys. If you're going to hate Bionicle for that, then you have to target lines like Lego Friends for their ratios. I started following the line when I was about six, and, as a six-year-old, I honestly don't expect I would've paid the same amount of attention had there been tons of females (apologies if that came across badly, but I was six. There were just enough females to be natural, but not enough for me not to be interested.) I'm not sexist, but I never felt there was anything seriously wrong with having an unequal ratio.

 

In addition, in my opinion, whatever is said in the books or other media goes. Had there been a poll over whether the Plantlife Matoran should be female, I would've opposed it strongly simply because of the five places in Legacy of Evil where the Toa is described as a male (see the affore mentioned topic).

 

However, because there's no pronoun saying Plasma Toa or Matoran are male, as an offering to those who dislike the unequal gender barriers, I strongly support making the Plasma species female. Besides, I've never regarded Mr. Farshtey's statements outside of the media with the same reverence as those inside the stories.

 

But if, as a community we've gotten to the point where we will change the words in one of Bionicle books simply because it suits our interests and because we can, I think I'm going to stop coming to these forums and just stick to the front page.

  • Upvote 4

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Something to note is that, no matter how many plot holes or problems I might point out in Bionicle G1, I love G1 above just about any thing else material in this world. I may bash it a lot, but that just shows how much I love it. (I won't go into explaining how that works.)

 

Also, my 3DS friend code is 4484-8769-0666. I have added some of you who have posted your friend codes in your signatures, so here's mine.

 

 

 

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My opinion on this is mixed, but it's mostly on yes because the female side would have more element, and just about all the female matoran so far have the color blue.

But I also think the Su-Matoran having both male and female would be a good idea.


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Strong no, on the idea that nothing new should be canonized for Gen 1. It's dead. Don't bother Greg about any more things. Period.

 

Also my headcanon has been mixed-gender elements for years now anyway.

 

~B~

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Yes. I'm pretty much against headcanon if it goes against canon, so I don't like the "all tribes are mixed-gendered" headcanon. I would like to see more female characters though, so this is a good one to change. It wouldn't mess up canon and I like the idea of Plasma being Fire's female counterpart.


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Strong no, on the idea that nothing new should be canonized for Gen 1. It's dead. Don't bother Greg about any more things. Period.

 

Also my headcanon has been mixed-gender elements for years now anyway.

 

~B~

WHAT IF...

 

Greg isn't annoyed by fan questions, because the entire reason why he has an ask page is because he likes interacting with the community, eh?

I know, it's a ridiculous assumption. After all, we all know that if we don't like what Greg is doing he's obviously being forced to do it.

Edited by The Irrational Rock
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bZpOwEr

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Why not? Balances the element-gender ratio a bit, and plus I'm pretty sure an in-story explaination could be somewhat similar to what they did with psionics: males too violent to control such strong element, switch to more "gentle" female one.


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Strong no, on the idea that nothing new should be canonized for Gen 1. It's dead. Don't bother Greg about any more things. Period.

 

Also my headcanon has been mixed-gender elements for years now anyway.

 

~B~

WHAT IF...

 

Greg isn't annoyed by fan questions, because the entire reason why he has an ask page is because he likes interacting with the community, eh?

I know, it's a ridiculous assumption. After all, we all know that if we don't like what Greg is doing he's obviously being forced to do it.

 

What if ... I don't care about Greg being annoyed or not and instead want people to stop beating the dead corpse of Gen 1 Bionicle with new canonizations?

 

~B~

  • Upvote 3

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Strong no, on the idea that nothing new should be canonized for Gen 1. It's dead. Don't bother Greg about any more things. Period.

 

Also my headcanon has been mixed-gender elements for years now anyway.

 

~B~

WHAT IF...

 

Greg isn't annoyed by fan questions, because the entire reason why he has an ask page is because he likes interacting with the community, eh?

I know, it's a ridiculous assumption. After all, we all know that if we don't like what Greg is doing he's obviously being forced to do it.

 

What if ... I don't care about Greg being annoyed or not and instead want people to stop beating the dead corpse of Gen 1 Bionicle with new canonizations?

 

~B~

 

Well you said "don't bother Greg with anything," which kind of implied that. 

Regardless, I still fail to see how canonization of something like this is "beating a dead corpse". What does it matter that there is a new generation? Why does it matter that first generation isn't active anymore? Why does changing something as trivial as this in the first generation ruffle your feathers? 


bZpOwEr

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I was going to say "inb4 Gen1 is over," but it looks like it's too late. 

 

Listen, just because there's a reboot doesn't mean that it is illegal to discuss what came before it. A new Star Wars movie is being made, are there still people who talk about the other two trilogies? Yes. There are countless Marvel reboots with the Cinematic Universe, but are there people who still talk about the older media? Yes. 

I don't know where this mentality of making it mandatory to focus only on the new generation came from, but I sure can't wait for it to leave because of how ridiculous it is. 

 

I didn't say it was illegal to discuss G1. Nor, to my knowledge, does anyone want to make it mandatory to focus only on G2. That is purely a straw man argument, so I will ignore it.

 

Allow me to restate my above post for clarity.

 

G1 information is only relevant as history. Talking about G1 is great: I enjoy discussing the old BIONICLE universe. However, canonizing things from G1 is different than discussing them. It's taking a piece of old information that is only relevant in discussion and trying to make it canon - when said canon has long since ended, and most people don't really care. Therefore, I don't support it. I would if G1 was still active, or perhaps more recently deceased. But five years down the road when G1 has long since ended and G2 is underway? Canonizing things feels like beating a dead horse.

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Strong no, on the idea that nothing new should be canonized for Gen 1. It's dead. Don't bother Greg about any more things. Period.

 

Also my headcanon has been mixed-gender elements for years now anyway.

 

~B~

WHAT IF...

 

Greg isn't annoyed by fan questions, because the entire reason why he has an ask page is because he likes interacting with the community, eh?

I know, it's a ridiculous assumption. After all, we all know that if we don't like what Greg is doing he's obviously being forced to do it.

 

What if ... I don't care about Greg being annoyed or not and instead want people to stop beating the dead corpse of Gen 1 Bionicle with new canonizations?

 

~B~

 

Well you said "don't bother Greg with anything," which kind of implied that. 

Regardless, I still fail to see how canonization of something like this is "beating a dead corpse". What does it matter that there is a new generation? Why does it matter that first generation isn't active anymore? Why does changing something as trivial as this in the first generation ruffle your feathers? 

 

As you just stated, 'Something as Trivial as this' if it's so trivial, why does it even need to be bothered with. Trivial can go both ways. There is no reason for this to be canonized, besides to satisfy a small part of a fanbase. It doesn't change the story, it doesn't change existing characters importance in the story, it has no chances of ever affecting future canon storyline since G1 is dead story wise... This canonization would change nothing. It's a waste of time.

 

Secondly even if Ballom's point was not about annoying greg, anyone with some decent grasp of social cues would be able to see that greg is genuinely annoyed or just doesn't care anymore. Most of the items he canonized recently, you can almost tell in his answers that he at the point of going 'Fine, do whatever you want'. But I could be the only one actually seeing this so clear annoyance, though if I had annoying fans always trying to ask me to change something or make something official in the story I created, I would be a little upset as well. 

 

Thirdly, allowing bzpower to potentially petition this canonization is a little self-centered. I'd like to point out that Bzpower isn't the only bionicle fan site on the internet *Gasps* There are many others, first two that come to mind being Bionifigs and the russian bionicle website whose name eludes me. Is it fair to potentially canonize something without taking those other Sites, and their members into consideration. Fairly certain if they went to check Biosector and saw plasma as a female element, they would be mighty confused and wonder when the heck this was changed/decided upon. But of course when it comes to canonization we so often forget there are other people besides Bzpower's members.

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So let's ask them. I'm sure there are some people who have accounts elsewhere. Let's spread the question and see what they think too.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Technically we already have female Toa/Matoran of plasma because lightning is basically plasma. *brick'd*

Greg has stated (twice) that they're male, and I'm perfectly fine with that. If y'all are still worried about what future fans get, then why not save your energy for G2? Of the kids and adults I've spoken with who remember/know of G1, most of them have little to no interest in the lore. 

I'd say most, if not all, of you fan-fic writers already have no qualms tweaking canon when it suits you, so why keep bothering Greg? Voxumo is right in that Greg sounds like he's caring less and less about all of this (at least from the looks of his answers), and this whole thing is starting to make us look like control-freaks. Again, let's just focus on G2 and let G1 be.

Edited by SilverCor
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It honestly makes way more sense for the Toa of Plasma to be canon gender fluid, as plasma, in it's natural form, exists between the properties of the three common forms of energy.

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It honestly makes way more sense for the Toa of Plasma to be canon gender fluid, as plasma, in it's natural form, exists between the properties of the three common forms of energy.

Hmm...that's actually a pretty good way of thinking. Does anyone know if Toa/Matoran of Plasma are rare, so they wouldn't directly violate the monogender tribe rule? If they were rare/special, then it would be more fitting for them to be different in some way, like Av-Matoran.


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Why are we still doing this?

 

If you don't have anything to add to the topic, don't post. -B6

Edited by Black Six
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Here's where I got the idea.

I was sick of the constant gender threads that BZP seems to have. They're basically a back and forth argument of "bonkles is sexist!" "no it isn't!" and nothing ever really happened beyond that.

 

So I thought "is there anything we can actually DO about this imbalance?"

 

I wanted Plantlife as female, but it was gendered in published media so it's a no-go. T1S found a loophole with Plasma so i was like "ok, I'll take whatever we can get"

Plasma has never had any named characters, so no one would have to be genderbent and it would be minimally intrusive to the canon.

 

I realize that this will effect MOCs and fan characters, but really what else could we have done to try and remedy this?

Genderbending canon characters is out of the question. And Light is the only element with both males and females, so we couldn't just say "it has both".

 

Of course, an element being female-only still didn't stop Greg from making the first named Toa of that element male, so I don't think anyone's fan characters are at risk.

And yes I realize that this would relegate the new female Matoran/Toa to background characters, but so are most of the Lightning and Psionics characters.

 

Some people are like "g1 is over, it doesn't matter".

But considering that we STILL have threads about the MU's gender ratio, it clearly does matter.

 

And you know what? Maybe this isn't the best thing to do. Maybe it will never actually happen.

I don't care if my name gets put on BS01. I don't care if people don't end up actually making any female Su-Toa.

 

I just wanted to do SOMETHING, anything other than just complain.

 

(and sorry guys. If you were born male, you can't say that gender doesn't matter in storytelling. It absolutely does, you just weren't aware of it because you were always represented in Bionicle canon)

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(and sorry guys. If you were born male, you can't say that gender doesn't matter in storytelling. It absolutely does, you just weren't aware of it because you were always represented in Bionicle canon)

post-9740-Jon-Stewart-shakes-head-gif-N2

...what? Obvious bait, but what are you talking about? That was really an unnecessary comment. I wasn't aware that gender matters in storytelling? Well excuse me. I voted yes, but I guess that means I don't matter. Null my vote. I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'd like to say more, but this forum is SFW. Have a nice day.

Edited by Toa Vanson

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I said yes, but that sent me down a train of thought...

 

We've been (understandably) frustrated with the male-dominated gender ratio for the matoran species for gen1...have been since it's creation...Our method of going about it has been to canonize as many female elements as possible...which i support, FYI.

 

However...one other option has been ignored pretty frequently, despite precident existing in the av-matoran...shouldn't we be fighting for elements where multiple genders are represented? perhaps even exististing, previously-canonized-as-male elements should have multiple genders.

 

I dunno...this topic's poll made me think of this for some reason, might as well throw it out there.


---[{How To Consolidate Gen2's Storytelling Flaws}]---

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Gen2 is the story.

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I said yes, but that sent me down a train of thought...

 

We've been (understandably) frustrated with the male-dominated gender ratio for the matoran species for gen1...have been since it's creation...Our method of going about it has been to canonize as many female elements as possible...which i support, FYI.

 

However...one other option has been ignored pretty frequently, despite precident existing in the av-matoran...shouldn't we be fighting for elements where multiple genders are represented? perhaps even exististing, previously-canonized-as-male elements should have multiple genders.

 

I dunno...this topic's poll made me think of this for some reason, might as well throw it out there.

 

yeah i still feel "light is an exception because *special* or whatever" was a pretty weird story decision and i'm not too sure why it was canonically said all tribes are mono-gendered since that's, like, a pretty weird thing to flat-out say? :0


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I said yes, but that sent me down a train of thought...

 

We've been (understandably) frustrated with the male-dominated gender ratio for the matoran species for gen1...have been since it's creation...Our method of going about it has been to canonize as many female elements as possible...which i support, FYI.

 

However...one other option has been ignored pretty frequently, despite precident existing in the av-matoran...shouldn't we be fighting for elements where multiple genders are represented? perhaps even exististing, previously-canonized-as-male elements should have multiple genders.

 

I dunno...this topic's poll made me think of this for some reason, might as well throw it out there.

 

yeah i still feel "light is an exception because *special* or whatever" was a pretty weird story decision and i'm not too sure why it was canonically said all tribes are mono-gendered since that's, like, a pretty weird thing to flat-out say? :0

 

Weren't Av-Matoran the first Matoran to be made? Maybe the Great Beings didn't think that monogender tribes were a good idea yet.


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A RUDE AWAKENING - A Bionicle G1 continuation and video-game project(MUSIC COMPOSER)  
special thx to Inary the Gunhaver for my new username. 

 

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I said yes, but that sent me down a train of thought...

 

We've been (understandably) frustrated with the male-dominated gender ratio for the matoran species for gen1...have been since it's creation...Our method of going about it has been to canonize as many female elements as possible...which i support, FYI.

 

However...one other option has been ignored pretty frequently, despite precident existing in the av-matoran...shouldn't we be fighting for elements where multiple genders are represented? perhaps even exististing, previously-canonized-as-male elements should have multiple genders.

 

I dunno...this topic's poll made me think of this for some reason, might as well throw it out there.

 

yeah i still feel "light is an exception because *special* or whatever" was a pretty weird story decision and i'm not too sure why it was canonically said all tribes are mono-gendered since that's, like, a pretty weird thing to flat-out say? :0

 

Weren't Av-Matoran the first Matoran to be made? Maybe the Great Beings didn't think that monogender tribes were a good idea yet.

 

 

well they were never a good idea, so.... :u


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Corpus Rahkshi characters: Snap, Teeth ,Rose,Kaita

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I said yes, but that sent me down a train of thought...

 

We've been (understandably) frustrated with the male-dominated gender ratio for the matoran species for gen1...have been since it's creation...Our method of going about it has been to canonize as many female elements as possible...which i support, FYI.

 

However...one other option has been ignored pretty frequently, despite precident existing in the av-matoran...shouldn't we be fighting for elements where multiple genders are represented? perhaps even exististing, previously-canonized-as-male elements should have multiple genders.

 

I dunno...this topic's poll made me think of this for some reason, might as well throw it out there.

 

yeah i still feel "light is an exception because *special* or whatever" was a pretty weird story decision and i'm not too sure why it was canonically said all tribes are mono-gendered since that's, like, a pretty weird thing to flat-out say? :0

 

Weren't Av-Matoran the first Matoran to be made? Maybe the Great Beings didn't think that monogender tribes were a good idea yet.

 

 

well they were never a good idea, so.... :u

 

Not according to the Great Beings. I don't like the skewed ratio either, but monogender tribes is something that I will always stick to for the reason I said earlier.

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A RUDE AWAKENING - A Bionicle G1 continuation and video-game project(MUSIC COMPOSER)  
special thx to Inary the Gunhaver for my new username. 

 

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Had this been an open-ended question back when plasma was introduced and there were no characters or years-old statements from Greg, I would have voted yes.  Seeing as this is a retcon, which as I have previously stated will have no impact on the canon, I voted no, since I see no advantage in making further changes to an established and concluded story.

 

Here's where I got the idea.

I was sick of the constant gender threads that BZP seems to have. They're basically a back and forth argument of "bonkles is sexist!" "no it isn't!" and nothing ever really happened beyond that.

 

So I thought "is there anything we can actually DO about this imbalance?"

 

I wanted Plantlife as female, but it was gendered in published media so it's a no-go. T1S found a loophole with Plasma so i was like "ok, I'll take whatever we can get"

Plasma has never had any named characters, so no one would have to be genderbent and it would be minimally intrusive to the canon.

 

I realize that this will effect MOCs and fan characters, but really what else could we have done to try and remedy this?

Genderbending canon characters is out of the question. And Light is the only element with both males and females, so we couldn't just say "it has both".

 

Of course, an element being female-only still didn't stop Greg from making the first named Toa of that element male, so I don't think anyone's fan characters are at risk.

And yes I realize that this would relegate the new female Matoran/Toa to background characters, but so are most of the Lightning and Psionics characters.

 

Some people are like "g1 is over, it doesn't matter".

But considering that we STILL have threads about the MU's gender ratio, it clearly does matter.

 

And you know what? Maybe this isn't the best thing to do. Maybe it will never actually happen.

I don't care if my name gets put on BS01. I don't care if people don't end up actually making any female Su-Toa.

 

I just wanted to do SOMETHING, anything other than just complain.

 

(and sorry guys. If you were born male, you can't say that gender doesn't matter in storytelling. It absolutely does, you just weren't aware of it because you were always represented in Bionicle canon)

 

I don't understand this need people seem to have to do something about the unequal ratio because no one has yet explained what exactly that something is that this would accomplish.  Do I like the unequal ratio?  No.  Do I think it is indicative of sexism?  Yes.  Do I think the story would have been better off with more female characters?  Absolutely.

 

Do I think that we, as a small group of fans, five years after the fact, should change the gender of characters who don't even appear directly?  No.

 

Look, I'm sympathetic to what you're all trying to do here, but making plasma a female element isn't striking a blow against the patriarchy (and I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically) or even adding more new female characters to the story.  Want to make more female MOCs or have more female characters in your fan fiction?  No one is stopping you from taking whatever liberties you want with the canon in those contexts.  But tweaking the canon so that we can "do something" seems incredibly misguided because 1) it will accomplish effectively nothing and 2) I don't think fans should be given this kind of free reign over the story anymore.

 

As for the argument that we should still talk about gen 1, yes, we should absolutely talk about these issues.  But that's not what we're doing here.  Instead of talking about the sexism present in Bionicle, both obvious (think Orde) and subtle (think few strong female characters), all I see is people trying to fix Bionicle.  I think it's great that Greg was so engaged with the fans, and as a recent contributor to the canon myself (shameless plug), I'm grateful for that opportunity.  But these attempts to fix and add to the canon are incredibly divisive and aren't adding to the story in a meaningful way. 

 

I'd like to see less bickering about what Bionicle should have been and more thoughtful discussion of what it was, both good and bad.

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(and sorry guys. If you were born male, you can't say that gender doesn't matter in storytelling. It absolutely does, you just weren't aware of it because you were always represented in Bionicle canon)

post-9740-Jon-Stewart-shakes-head-gif-N2

...what? Obvious bait, but what are you talking about? That was really an unnecessary comment. I wasn't aware that gender matters in storytelling? Well excuse me. I voted yes, but I guess that means I don't matter. Null my vote. I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'd like to say more, but this forum is SFW. Have a nice day.

 

 

...is "women's opinions on women's issues are more valuable than men's" a controversial thing now?

  • Upvote 1

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(and sorry guys. If you were born male, you can't say that gender doesn't matter in storytelling. It absolutely does, you just weren't aware of it because you were always represented in Bionicle canon)

post-9740-Jon-Stewart-shakes-head-gif-N2

...what? Obvious bait, but what are you talking about? That was really an unnecessary comment. I wasn't aware that gender matters in storytelling? Well excuse me. I voted yes, but I guess that means I don't matter. Null my vote. I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'd like to say more, but this forum is SFW. Have a nice day.

 

 

...is "women's opinions on women's issues are more valuable than men's" a controversial thing now?

 

Sorry, that was worded weird. I meant that Sailor made it sound like guys don't know anything about the fact that gender matters in stories.

  • Upvote 1

OqAhaVh.gif   qIprtVB.png     

A RUDE AWAKENING - A Bionicle G1 continuation and video-game project(MUSIC COMPOSER)  
special thx to Inary the Gunhaver for my new username. 

 

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(and sorry guys. If you were born male, you can't say that gender doesn't matter in storytelling. It absolutely does, you just weren't aware of it because you were always represented in Bionicle canon)

post-9740-Jon-Stewart-shakes-head-gif-N2

...what? Obvious bait, but what are you talking about? That was really an unnecessary comment. I wasn't aware that gender matters in storytelling? Well excuse me. I voted yes, but I guess that means I don't matter. Null my vote. I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'd like to say more, but this forum is SFW. Have a nice day.

 

 

...is "women's opinions on women's issues are more valuable than men's" a controversial thing now?

 

Sorry, that was worded weird. I meant that Sailor made it sound like guys don't know anything about the fact that gender matters in stories.

 

That was not what I said.

What I meant was, if someone says "You're spending way too much time on this, MU doesn't *really* have gender so it doesn't matter if there are a lot more male characters" they're usually a dude. And if you were raised as a male you probably haven't experienced your gender being treated as "other" or "special" while male is the "default".

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