Maybe We're Looking At Genders All Wrong

[CarumEsSarene]

It could just be that the characters in Bionicle don't actually have a gender at all. They're just "its".

 

They only associate "he" or "she" based on the assumes force.

 

For example; water isn't seen as a strong or forceful element, so the matoran are considered "she"

 

Whereas those of Stone or Earth are strong and always noted as "he"

 

Edit:

 

Clarifying more. There is no gender locking because there technically is no gender. They only assume gender based on dominance. Yet only noted based on compared stance.

 

Example: A Le-Matoran would be known as male when referred by a Ga-Matoran. Or female by an Onu-Matoran.

Edited May 23, 2015 by CarumEsSarene

[The 1st Shadow]

How do you intend to explain characters like Sidorak or Teridax, who are not Matoran? The Makuta, Vortixx, and ruling class of Stelt are not gender-locked the way Matoran tribes are, nor are they necessarily elemental. There's dozens of other non-Matoran races that have no elemental traits that have male and female members.

 

Doesn't work.

[CarumEsSarene]

How do you intend to explain characters like Sidorak or Teridax, who are not Matoran? The Makuta, Vortixx, and ruling class of Stelt are not gender-locked the way Matoran tribes are, nor are they necessarily elemental. There's dozens of other non-Matoran races that have no elemental traits that have male and female members.

 

Doesn't work.

Still could.

 

If they only note gender based on dominance, obviously those such as Sidorak would be considered male. They're of dominant strength. We only know Roodaka is female because the only ones to mention Roodaka as "she" assume they are more dominant. Sidorak, Vakama, etc; If we could understand Visorak tongue, it's likely they considered Roodaka as male.

[The 1st Shadow]

 

How do you intend to explain characters like Sidorak or Teridax, who are not Matoran? The Makuta, Vortixx, and ruling class of Stelt are not gender-locked the way Matoran tribes are, nor are they necessarily elemental. There's dozens of other non-Matoran races that have no elemental traits that have male and female members.

 

Doesn't work.

Still could.

 

If they only note gender based on dominance, obviously those such as Sidorak would be considered male. They're of dominant strength. We only know Roodaka is female because the only ones to mention Roodaka as "she" assume they are more dominant. Sidorak, Vakama, etc; If we could understand Visorak tongue, it's likely they considered Roodaka as male.

 

So, you're saying that traits of dominance make them male? How does that make any sense in the canon?

[CarumEsSarene]

 

 

 

How do you intend to explain characters like Sidorak or Teridax, who are not Matoran? The Makuta, Vortixx, and ruling class of Stelt are not gender-locked the way Matoran tribes are, nor are they necessarily elemental. There's dozens of other non-Matoran races that have no elemental traits that have male and female members.

 

Doesn't work.

Still could.

 

If they only note gender based on dominance, obviously those such as Sidorak would be considered male. They're of dominant strength. We only know Roodaka is female because the only ones to mention Roodaka as "she" assume they are more dominant. Sidorak, Vakama, etc; If we could understand Visorak tongue, it's likely they considered Roodaka as male.

So, you're saying that traits of dominance make them male? How does that make any sense in the canon?

I attempted clarifying it.

 

There shouldn't be actual genders. And that he or she is more of a dominance status.

[Sumiki]

It's clear in the canon that there are male and female genders. They lack an even playing field and are plagued with harmful stereotypes, but they're unequivocally there.
 
I have to say, though, presenting gender as a dominance status implies belief in harmful gender stereotypes—and if we're sticking to canon, would subvert Greg's femme fatale characters.

[CarumEsSarene]

It's clear in the canon that there are male and female genders. They lack an even playing field and are plagued with harmful stereotypes, but they're unequivocally there.

 

I have to say, though, presenting gender as a dominance status implies belief in harmful gender stereotypes—and if we're sticking to canon, would subvert Greg's femme fatale characters.

Actually would make all the weaker male characters really female. Such as Tomaru, Kopeke, etc;

[The 1st Shadow]

It's clear in the canon that there are male and female genders. They lack an even playing field and are plagued with harmful stereotypes, but they're unequivocally there.

 

I have to say, though, presenting gender as a dominance status implies belief in harmful gender stereotypes—and if we're sticking to canon, would subvert Greg's femme fatale characters.

^^Yeah, basically that

 

 

Actually would make all the weaker male characters really female. Such as Tomaru, Kopeke, etc;

 

So, weak=female? Might wanna be careful saying that on here. 

[Prowl Nightwolf]

 

Actually would make all the weaker male characters really female. Such as Tomaru, Kopeke, etc;

So, weak=female? Might wanna be careful saying that on here.

 

Yeah that is a worm in a can all its own. After all Gali is a powerful Toa in her own right.

[Sumiki]

 

It's clear in the canon that there are male and female genders. They lack an even playing field and are plagued with harmful stereotypes, but they're unequivocally there.

 

I have to say, though, presenting gender as a dominance status implies belief in harmful gender stereotypes—and if we're sticking to canon, would subvert Greg's femme fatale characters.

Actually would make all the weaker male characters really female. Such as Tomaru, Kopeke, etc;

 

... you realize that's literally a gender stereotype, right?

 

Look, I can see where you're coming from here: the Matoran Universe has a system that's more caste than gender binary. But you seem to be implying that, in this system, anyone in a lower caste is referred to with female pronouns because ... of what, weakness? If so, I go back to my point about this system relying on gender stereotypes to function.

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

wow, this is.... sorry. this is pretty bad, it tries to cover a problem but makes it look worse, like a bad clown poster, again sorry, don't take this the wrong way but.... ouch.

[CarumEsSarene]

So much for trying to even out the gender issue. I'm going to just let this thread die and you can all go back to debating on monogendered characters.

[Makaru]

You attempted to even it out based on the fundamental principle of "the fairer sex". I'm not sure what reaction you were expecting.

[believe victims]

So much for trying to even out the gender issue. I'm going to just let this thread die and you can all go back to debating on monogendered characters.

 

Something about the way you worded this is rubbing me the wrong way, like you're trying to imply we're not accepting this idea just because we're too stubborn and want to argue. It's definitely not about that. This proposal is essentially a repackaging of the old "they're robots so they dont have genders" except this time with a draping of sexism over it in the idea of "male=strong, female=weak". I don't think we're irrational in not being the biggest fans.

[CarumEsSarene]

You attempted to even it out based on the fundamental principle of "the fairer sex". I'm not sure what reaction you were expecting.

I was attempting to clarify that they see genders differently than we do. That they see genders as a status icon that can change based on if the person mentioning them assumes they're stronger or not. So any " male" can be a "female" in the eyes of another. Or vice versa.

 

I'm already being bashed for this so just let this thread die, I'll go elsewhere.

[believe victims]

You're not being bashed. People are criticizing an attempt at solving Bionicle's gender issues that, to some of us, comes across as sexist. You aren't being targeted, the idea is.

 

Anyway, it doesn't stand up to canon interpretation regardless; characters are consistently referred to by the same gender other people use, regardless of relative power level. Any Matoran, for instance, uses "she" for Gali, even though there are no Matoran stronger than a Toa. If your idea were correct, I would expect any Toa would be a "he".

[SailorQuaoar]

I'm going to derail this topic because it's awful.

 

What would some cool weapon ideas be for Plantlife Toa?

I have a thorn whip and a giant hammer, but that's it.

And some for Plasma too. Drawing a blank there.

(They are both canon females by the way)

[Tufi Piyufi]

Invoking sexist stereotypes to justify things in Bionicle still isn't okay, people. Considering this topic is built solely on that...

 

Topic closed.