Nature of MU Brains

[Sergei Rahkmaninoff]

I was reading about Tren Krom just now and came to an interesting conclusion.

 

Barring rare exceptions, MU inhabitants – let's say Matoran – can be revived by the Red Star, and the brain is necessary for this revival. Tren Krom, one of these exceptions, could apparently not be revived because he was fully organic. Yet Matoran have organics in their bodies, so clearly the Red Star is capable of the recreation of organic body parts – and therefore it should have been capable of recreating Tren Krom's body. Nevertheless, Tren Krom could not be revived, so it can be concluded that his brain must be somehow different than that of the Matoran. His brain is confirmed to be organic, and differs from theirs, so Matoran (and other revivable MU inhabitants) must have inorganic brains.

 

There are probably holes in this reasoning; even I can come up with a few ways it could be contradicted. It could be said that the Red Star can only grow small amounts of organics over an inorganic skeleton, making that, rather than his brain, the reason for Tren Krom's inability to be revived, for example. Or just that his organics were of a different variety than a Matoran's entirely. Still, I'm interested in everyone else's thoughts on this theory and the nature of the brains of beings from the Matoran Universe.

[Irrie]

Maybe they do have organic brains, but Tren Krom's brain is simply different from that of a normal MU Inhabitant? Maybe Tren Krom doesn't even have a brain, and he's like a Prokaryote and has no solid brain, but rather "brain matter" (nucleoid in cells) that floats freely inside of him?

Just a thought.

[CarumEsSarene]

Maybe he has a human brain?

[FallenCor]

Hm, I like the idea that it's a combo of organics and robotics -- perhaps in the style of Marvel's CU Vision. Regardless of the tech/organics ratio in their brains, it's possible that MU organics are entirely synthetic while Tren Krom was a "true" organic. The GBs could have been using genetic engineering when they created TK before they switched to synthetics for the rest of the MU. Since they didn't intend to keep TK around, they would have no reason to equip the RS for the repair of true organics. 

Edited June 18, 2015 by SilverCor

[fishers64]

It could be that TK has a different reason he couldn't be revived, other than his brain. I wouldn't be surprised if the RS needed a mechanical framework to "print" the organics on. 

[The 1st Shadow]

The reason for the RS needing the brain intact is because the brain stores the memories and general personality programming of the being. If that's destroyed, then there's no point in bringing them back to life, because you'll just be starting from scratch.

 

And, as Fishers said, TK is fully organic, while the other MU beings are biomechanical. Krom's body was not a format that the Kestora were equipped to deal with. You can remove an organic brain from a robot body and transplant it into a new one, but that's more difficult with a fully organic body.

 

Also, TK was blown to tiny bits, so there's nothing left of him to revive, anyway.

[UnderscoreChronix]

He probably just has a different brain. Or maybe the Red Star was programmed only to revive certain species.

[FallenCor]

Here's another thought: TK was a one-use deal, so maybe the teleporters weren't even programed to recognize him.

[bonesiii]

Barring rare exceptions, MU inhabitants – let's say Matoran – can be revived by the Red Star, and the brain is necessary for this revival. Tren Krom, one of these exceptions, could apparently not be revived because he was fully organic. Yet Matoran have organics in their bodies, so clearly the Red Star is capable of the recreation of organic body parts – and therefore it should have been capable of recreating Tren Krom's body. Nevertheless, Tren Krom could not be revived, so it can be concluded that his brain must be somehow different than that of the Matoran.

Doesn't follow, although it's unfathomable that his brain isn't different somehow since he makes people go insane from mental contact. And is a tad bit larger than most beings, so probably his brain is, if he even has a distinct brain. But anywho, problem with this reasoning is it forgets that the rule about the RS sounds more like it requires a mechanical part of some kind that TK lacks. (Or simply requires they have metal parts at all and something sorts them out if they don't... for some reason...) Previous theories have focused on the heartlight or something thereabouts as a likely candidate. It could be in the brain too while the rest of the brain is organic or a mix in general.

 

We simply don't know because it was never established, and trying to guess at it through other established things isn't going to work because they weren't chosen to fit a particular version of what the brains are.

 

His brain is confirmed to be organic, and differs from theirs, so Matoran (and other revivable MU inhabitants) must have inorganic brains.

Again, doesn't follow. They might, or might not, we don't know.

[RahiSpeak]

Matoran are programmed with societal skills such as language during their creation. This ensures that they can get to work immediately after they come into being.

(From BS01)

 

"Programmed" is a strange word to use if a matoran mind were organic: sounds like a computer to me.

Edited June 19, 2015 by RahiSpeak

[fishers64]

 

Matoran are programmed with societal skills such as language during their creation. This ensures that they can get to work immediately after they come into being.

(From BS01)

 

"Programmed" is a strange word to use if a matoran mind were organic: sounds like a computer to me.

 

Our organic cells have DNA in them - that's a code. An organic mind could be programmed. 

[The 1st Shadow]

 

 

Matoran are programmed with societal skills such as language during their creation. This ensures that they can get to work immediately after they come into being.

(From BS01)

 

"Programmed" is a strange word to use if a matoran mind were organic: sounds like a computer to me.

 

Our organic cells have DNA in them - that's a code. An organic mind could be programmed. 

 

For example, the government is programming young minds through our flawed educational system to become its mindless servants.

[RahiSpeak]

 

 

Matoran are programmed with societal skills such as language during their creation. This ensures that they can get to work immediately after they come into being.

(From BS01)

 

"Programmed" is a strange word to use if a matoran mind were organic: sounds like a computer to me.

 

Our organic cells have DNA in them - that's a code. An organic mind could be programmed.

 

Well, our best understanding of an organic mind involves neurons, not DNA. Now, people have started trying to make DNA computers that do simple math. However, given the nature of DNA (and by extension, any type of organic chemical coding), this process is very slow and is not able to make any computation quick enough to be a functioning mind no matter how advanced the technology is. Edited June 20, 2015 by RahiSpeak

[Ghidora131]

I'm sorry, Great Beings?

 

The people who dreamed up an entire universe inside the body of a 40k foot robot?

 

They could probably program DNA.

[Fry]

I'll never understand why all of this speculating always happens. A) most of the time, they are tiny details, and B) the story writers themselves didn't bother explaining (or probably even thinking about them), so why speculate on something which has absolutely no backing in the story? I suppose, theoretically, if Bionicle was real, this would apply, but that is like trying to explain the magic in the Lord of the Rings.

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

 

 

"Programmed" is a strange word to use if a matoran mind were organic: sounds like a computer to me.

Our organic cells have DNA in them - that's a code. An organic mind could be programmed. 

For example, the government is programming young minds through our flawed educational system to become its mindless servants.

 

through the education system? man, you seriously underestimate the US government and their SERIOUS-BRAINHACKING skills.

 

(also i'm gonna go and say tren-krom probably didn't get revival boons because the GBs specifically didn't want him to have them. y'know, programmed the star to not accept his one-of-a-kind biology.)

[RahiSpeak]

I'm sorry, Great Beings?

 

The people who dreamed up an entire universe inside the body of a 40k foot robot?

 

They could probably program DNA.

You are missing the point. Codes, by nature, are sequences. Therefore, they must be read, interpreted, and manipulated following a sequence. I don't know if you have any experience with programming, but a good example of this idea in regards to DNA is an array. Arrays are essentially lists of items -- numbers, characters, objects, etc. -- where each item has a unique index (position) within the list. If you wanted to access the third item in an array, you would first have to pass over the first two items before arriving at the third. This is fine for small tasks (like a shopping list) or ones that do not have to be done quickly (like cellular maintenance), however, a mind is very complex and must work quickly at the same time. Also, up until this point I have been ignoring that DNA must be spliced and replicated in order to be used. Compared to the rapid retrieval of computer memory, all of this chemical splicing, duplicating, and indexing takes a very long time. No matter how advanced a Great Being is, a chemical code is useful only for storing lots of information (the real attraction to genetic computers is memory storage), not the rapid manipulation of information that a mind requires. There is nothing a Great Being could possibly do to change this.

Edited June 20, 2015 by RahiSpeak

[Ghidora131]

Of course not. But they could speed up the process.

[LegoSWfan]

What if they had organic brains with cybernetic Implants? The organic part of the brain would handle basic body functions, while the implants controlled socialization and language.

[fishers64]

 

I'm sorry, Great Beings?

 

The people who dreamed up an entire universe inside the body of a 40k foot robot?

 

They could probably program DNA.

You are missing the point. Codes, by nature, are sequences. Therefore, they must be read, interpreted, and manipulated following a sequence. I don't know if you have any experience with programming, but a good example of this idea in regards to DNA is an array. Arrays are essentially lists of items -- numbers, characters, objects, etc. -- where each item has a unique index (position) within the list. If you wanted to access the third item in an array, you would first have to pass over the first two items before arriving at the third. This is fine for small tasks (like a shopping list) or ones that do not have to be done quickly (like cellular maintenance), however, a mind is very complex and must work quickly at the same time. Also, up until this point I have been ignoring that DNA must be spliced and replicated in order to be used. Compared to the rapid retrieval of computer memory, all of this chemical splicing, duplicating, and indexing takes a very long time. No matter how advanced a Great Being is, a chemical code is useful only for storing lots of information (the real attraction to genetic computers is memory storage), not the rapid manipulation of information that a mind requires. There is nothing a Great Being could possibly do to change this.

 

But our minds seem to handle rapid manipulation of information without any mechanical parts just fine. 

[Ghidora131]

Exactly. And DNA Is extremely delicate to change.

 

Don't believe me?

 

Stab your arm once a day with a staple for a week, and see how you attitude fairs.

 

 

(Don't ask meh how I knew that)

Edited June 20, 2015 by Ghidora131

[V-N]

 

I'm sorry, Great Beings?

 

The people who dreamed up an entire universe inside the body of a 40k foot robot?

 

They could probably program DNA.

You are missing the point. Codes, by nature, are sequences. Therefore, they must be read, interpreted, and manipulated following a sequence. I don't know if you have any experience with programming, but a good example of this idea in regards to DNA is an array. Arrays are essentially lists of items -- numbers, characters, objects, etc. -- where each item has a unique index (position) within the list. If you wanted to access the third item in an array, you would first have to pass over the first two items before arriving at the third. This is fine for small tasks (like a shopping list) or ones that do not have to be done quickly (like cellular maintenance), however, a mind is very complex and must work quickly at the same time. Also, up until this point I have been ignoring that DNA must be spliced and replicated in order to be used. Compared to the rapid retrieval of computer memory, all of this chemical splicing, duplicating, and indexing takes a very long time. No matter how advanced a Great Being is, a chemical code is useful only for storing lots of information (the real attraction to genetic computers is memory storage), not the rapid manipulation of information that a mind requires. There is nothing a Great Being could possibly do to change this.

 

 

First of all, it is not true that retrieving data from an array at index n takes less than time then, say, data at index n+100. If you're using a loop to go through each index until you find a data value you're looking for, then yes, it will take longer if the value is at the end of the array, but that's because you're looking at every value in the array; the actual speed of pulling each value from memory is the same for all indexes.

 

But that is nitpicking. I would say that, because of how fast computers are and because we don't see characters thinking at hyperspeed, the brains of MU inhabitants are at least partly biological. Despite the slower speed, as fishers64 said, human biological brains work fine, so why wouldn't they work for MU inhabitants? Organic tissue, because of its regenerative ability, is more durable than metal. And if the brain is necessary for a MU inhabitant to be revived on the Red Star, it makes sense for it to have organic regenerative ability to keep it intact.

[Ghidora131]

Well.

 

Electronic devices meant to duplicate pre-created organic matter.