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Hey again, BZPers!

 

 

So, we find the legendary masters of the elements on their way to the ancient temple of the Mask Makers. But egad! an evil, skeletal army has arisen under the command of Kulta: the Skull Grinder! it appears he was the master of the hordes of spiders that menaced the world that the Toa must save, and the head of the Lord of skull spiders! Now the Toa must defeat this new, stereotypical army and save the world!

 

...But what are they skeletons of?

 

In Ninjago, we see skeletons attacking our four young ninjas. But they are clearly skeletons of people. The skull army, however, has no definite species, and they definitely aren't villagers due to their size and bulk. So what are they?

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Well, we know that Slicer was once an arena champion or something like that, so perhaps there was once a race of Toa-like beings that lived alongside the villagers.

 

Or....

 

The Toa are the last living members of that race. Something in the past could have happened to their kind, wiping them out, except for six members who volunteered to be preserved until a later date.

 

Why or what this would be, I'm not sure. But it would answer the Toa's origins pretty darn fast.

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Undead Toa-species? I can get behind that. Actually...

 

Taken that the Toa arrived via some manipulation of Time, and that the Ancient City was obce inhabited by Toa-sized beings, would it not be too outrageous to assume that the Toa were called from Okoto's distant past, when their kind (bigger, stronger elemental warriors) was more common? The resurrection of Kulta and the Skulls is the bad guys trying to call their own 'Toa' to the field. Without the Temple of Time, however, they have to resurrect their Ancient Heroes in a different way; a way that robs them of their essential heroism...

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I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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G1 had any number of species, and G2 shows both Ekimu and Makuta looking like tall beings that aren't Toa, so could be anything. There's no apparent implication that there are only villagers, protectors, and Toa in this world.

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Yes, but we know that Ekimu and Makuta are protectors based on their size. Scale up the new set to see for yourself.

 

So far, the animation perspective makes him seem big, but we can teel set-wise he's not very big. I'm sure they're gonna oversize Kulta as well.

 

 

But a race of past heroes? possibly... The question I have is what are they? and why did they hang out in an abandoned city, underground at that, waiting for someone to show up?

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Well, Skull Slicer is apparently a past arena champion. And Skull Scorpio at least appears to be a monster cobbled together out of other skeleton parts (in other words, it's entirely possible that he wasn't a scorpion before he died). For that matter, that could even be the case with some of the other Skull Villains, like Basher and Scorpio—we just don't know at this point.

 

For what it's worth, the origins of Ninjago's skeletons weren't entirely clear either. Sure, it could be assumed that the bulk of the Skeleton Army were human skeletons. But most of the generals, with their comically huge heads, and especially Samukai, with his four arms, were much more ambiguous.

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As a genwunner who STILL can't handle the fact that this is a hard reboot, I can imagine the Skull Warriors as undead soldier-class Skrall, and Kulta (if he too is undead) an undead leader-class Skrall, leader of a legion that once invaded/conquered/inhabited Okoto.

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G1 had any number of species, and G2 shows both Ekimu and Makuta looking like tall beings that aren't Toa, so could be anything. There's no apparent implication that there are only villagers, protectors, and Toa in this world.

 

Somehow i feel the last thing this new Bionicle needs to take cues from is the old one's constant need to make more and more near-identical species.

 

It's one thing to have variety like the Skakdi (brutish war-goblins) and the Makuta (Anti-Toa) but Bionicle had so many humanshape mask-wearing tall guys it'd be like if DnD introduced a new player race that had all the abilities and traits of elfs but called them "Alfs".

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The dark hunters are to blame, they should've been mutations of some kind and not their own species. I also blame Trinuma, Tobduk and the Barraki for adding extra species that are too similar to Toa.

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The dark hunters are to blame, they should've been mutations of some kind and not their own species. I also blame Trinuma, Tobduk and the Barraki for adding extra species that are too similar to Toa.

 

i wouldn't blame the DH and barraki really, they were individuals and whatnot, no real "species" to see in them. I'd if anything blame Greg & story team* for this odd need to make them into specified species. Pridak is a mutant shark man, that's what he is.

 

similarly and back on topic, Skull basher is clearly a Bull-man. and probably a generic "humanoid" as the toa could possibly be this time, given we don't know if "toa" even is a species anymore.

 

*mostly greg.

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As a genwunner who STILL can't handle the fact that this is a hard reboot, I can imagine the Skull Warriors as undead soldier-class Skrall, and Kulta (if he too is undead) an undead leader-class Skrall, leader of a legion that once invaded/conquered/inhabited Okoto.

 

that's nice and all but completely irrelevant to the discussion of what they are in canon

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As a genwunner who STILL can't handle the fact that this is a hard reboot, I can imagine the Skull Warriors as undead soldier-class Skrall, and Kulta (if he too is undead) an undead leader-class Skrall, leader of a legion that once invaded/conquered/inhabited Okoto.

 

that's nice and all but completely irrelevant to the discussion of what they are in canon

 

Exactly. Headcanons elsewhere plskthx

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G1 had any number of species, and G2 shows both Ekimu and Makuta looking like tall beings that aren't Toa, so could be anything. There's no apparent implication that there are only villagers, protectors, and Toa in this world.

 

Somehow i feel the last thing this new Bionicle needs to take cues from is the old one's constant need to make more and more near-identical species.

 

It's one thing to have variety like the Skakdi (brutish war-goblins) and the Makuta (Anti-Toa) but Bionicle had so many humanshape mask-wearing tall guys it'd be like if DnD introduced a new player race that had all the abilities and traits of elfs but called them "Alfs".

 

Personally, I feel the need for explicitly defined species itself was a major problem for the classic story. It always bugged me how the old story tended to make unique and distinctive characters like Krekka, Sidorak, and Roodaka into singular examples of highly-similar species. There's no reason why Skull Slicer needs to come from a race of four-armed warriors when he could just have been a character like the Toa, but with four arms instead of two.

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Undead Toa-species? I can get behind that. Actually...

 

Taken that the Toa arrived via some manipulation of Time, and that the Ancient City was obce inhabited by Toa-sized beings, would it not be too outrageous to assume that the Toa were called from Okoto's distant past, when their kind (bigger, stronger elemental warriors) was more common? The resurrection of Kulta and the Skulls is the bad guys trying to call their own 'Toa' to the field. Without the Temple of Time, however, they have to resurrect their Ancient Heroes in a different way; a way that robs them of their essential heroism...

I really like this idea; however, there is the fact that the Toa seem to "come from the stars." I think the constant planetary/stellar imagery in various places (boxes, animations, website, etc) seems to say that there is more to it than the Mask of Time. If time was the only factor, then wouldn't they just have randomly showed up in the basic geographic location where they had been standing in their previous time period? 

While I am with you on the Skull Villains being undead Toa, I think there is a more complex way that they ended up on Okoto. 

 

Also, if the Toa were summoned with the Mask of Time, how were the baddies summoned? The TV spot seems to imply the use of the Mask of Creation, however, I feel that there's something more interesting going on. Perhaps involving a certain Mask of Control? 

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Undead Toa-species? I can get behind that. Actually...

 

Taken that the Toa arrived via some manipulation of Time, and that the Ancient City was obce inhabited by Toa-sized beings, would it not be too outrageous to assume that the Toa were called from Okoto's distant past, when their kind (bigger, stronger elemental warriors) was more common? The resurrection of Kulta and the Skulls is the bad guys trying to call their own 'Toa' to the field. Without the Temple of Time, however, they have to resurrect their Ancient Heroes in a different way; a way that robs them of their essential heroism...

I really like this idea; however, there is the fact that the Toa seem to "come from the stars." I think the constant planetary/stellar imagery in various places (boxes, animations, website, etc) seems to say that there is more to it than the Mask of Time. If time was the only factor, then wouldn't they just have randomly showed up in the basic geographic location where they had been standing in their previous time period? 

While I am with you on the Skull Villains being undead Toa, I think there is a more complex way that they ended up on Okoto. 

 

Also, if the Toa were summoned with the Mask of Time, how were the baddies summoned? The TV spot seems to imply the use of the Mask of Creation, however, I feel that there's something more interesting going on. Perhaps involving a certain Mask of Control? 

 

The Mask of Creation applied to piles of bone and/or corpses. The Mask creates. What it creates out of what is more likely the user's decision. Give it to a undead (Kulta) and he can create more undead with it, since he's got a graveyard nearby. The Mask of Control might be what gave Kulta his drive: "Find the Mask of Creation and Destroy all who come for it" is a pretty efficient hypnotic suggestion.

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Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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I think the assumption that the Mask of Creation is used to "create" the Skull Creatures may be premature.

 

Firstly, Skull Warrior's product description says that it steals the energy from masks to "resurrect" other Skull Warriors. This makes no mention of the Mask of Creation being needed. It would seem simplest if the Skull Creatures resurrected by Kulta used the same process. Incidentally, "resurrection" isn't really a process synonymous with "creation".

Secondly, the Club Magazine description of Kulta says that his motivation is to destroy masks of power. So it seems that his goal would be to find and destroy the Mask of Creation, not use it. This is evidenced by how Kulta's box art seems to show him about to dunk the Mask into a forge, to "unmake" it.

Thirdly, Kulta is not wearing the Mask of Creation in the animation trailer, and that is after the Skull Creatures have been created. If he possessed it, why wouldn't he wear it at all times for the power boost?

Lastly, why would Kulta need such a large army for a relatively poorly defended island, unless the members were needed to search for the lost Mask of Creation?

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I have an idea, but this is just my interpretation of events. 

 

The Skull Warriors and other Skull creatures may have inhabited the ancient city alongside the villagers. They could have originally functioned as the defenders of the people and the city itself, but somehow, their "race" died out due to some sort of tragedy. 

Enter Makuta. As we know, the legend days that Makuta became jealous, and made a mask of ultimate power. When he used this and Ekimu knocked it off of his face, it sent a shockwave that destroyed most of the city. This would be said tragedy and would include the death of some of the inhabitants of the city, namely the Skull creatures and the villagers.

 

But that's just my theory.

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G1 had any number of species, and G2 shows both Ekimu and Makuta looking like tall beings that aren't Toa, so could be anything. There's no apparent implication that there are only villagers, protectors, and Toa in this world.

 

Somehow i feel the last thing this new Bionicle needs to take cues from is the old one's constant need to make more and more near-identical species.

 

It's one thing to have variety like the Skakdi (brutish war-goblins) and the Makuta (Anti-Toa) but Bionicle had so many humanshape mask-wearing tall guys it'd be like if DnD introduced a new player race that had all the abilities and traits of elfs but called them "Alfs".

Agreed, but the main problem with Gen 1 about species was the plausibility issue of there being so many defined species within the MU. Stories like Star Wars don't have that problem as "any number" is to be expected, and G2 seems to be portraying multiple habitable worlds from the start, albeit moons or some similar relationship to the one Okoto is on. (And we only know of one island on that world, so yeah.) But I was thinking more that they might not fall into defined species anyways, like Lychir said.

 

Having no requirement for species would have fit well with the biomechanical nature of G1 too. Not sure if that applies here; some theories go that they're organic here (and skeletons would by generic default evidence that, but the mechanical parts of biomechanical beings were called skeletons in G1). But it's a route they could go, especially if they go with the appearance of 2001 as robots.

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I find it noteworthy that Island of the Lost Masks describes Ekimu's set form as old and withered. He isn't your ordinary Okotan, it would seem. The Legend animation suggests that the inhabitants of the Ancient City were the forebears of the modern villagers. Seeing as the Skull villains come from the city, it seems reasonable to assume that the ancestors of the modern Okotans were more physically imposing than their current descendants. If reproduction is a thing, then so is evolution, in all likelihood.

 

As for Slicer, perhaps he was of a sub-species with four-arms. Alternately, if the islanders are biomechanical, perhaps he was augmented to be a better warrior.

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I find it noteworthy that Island of the Lost Masks describes Ekimu's set form as old and withered. He isn't your ordinary Okotan, it would seem. 

Well, look at how the Protector of Fire displayed himself at first. Kinda old and wrinkly, but then showed that he's still a capable fighter. Can the same not be said for Ekimu?

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I find it noteworthy that Island of the Lost Masks describes Ekimu's set form as old and withered. He isn't your ordinary Okotan, it would seem. 

Well, look at how the Protector of Fire displayed himself at first. Kinda old and wrinkly, but then showed that he's still a capable fighter. Can the same not be said for Ekimu?

 

To elaborate, Ekimu

knocks the Mask of Creation off Grinder's face with his hammer, then catches it and puts it on. This seems to trigger a transformation.

The light from the glowing hammer expanded over Ekimu and his armor, and he was transformed from a frail figure into a powerful warrior.

 

 

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I find it noteworthy that Island of the Lost Masks describes Ekimu's set form as old and withered. He isn't your ordinary Okotan, it would seem. 

Well, look at how the Protector of Fire displayed himself at first. Kinda old and wrinkly, but then showed that he's still a capable fighter. Can the same not be said for Ekimu?

 

To elaborate, Ekimu

knocks the Mask of Creation off Grinder's face with his hammer, then catches it and puts it on. This seems to trigger a transformation.

The light from the glowing hammer expanded over Ekimu and his armor, and he was transformed from a frail figure into a powerful warrior.

 

 

 

All I get out of that is the same thing that happened to the Toa Mata. After years of disuse, his form deteriorated. Once connected to his main source of power, he's revitalized. That doesn't mean his set form is the weak version. 

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For context

Ekimu defeats Kulta by knocking the MoC from his face. The transformation comes afterwards.

 

Now, sets don't always correspond to the story, but it seems odd for IoLM not to portray Ekimu fighting Grinder in the form in which he does so in "Mask Maker vs. Skull Grinder."

 

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As a genwunner who STILL can't handle the fact that this is a hard reboot, I can imagine the Skull Warriors as undead soldier-class Skrall, and Kulta (if he too is undead) an undead leader-class Skrall, leader of a legion that once invaded/conquered/inhabited Okoto.

Thankfully, this is far from the case.

 

There's no reason why Skull Slicer needs to come from a race of four-armed warriors when he could just have been a character like the Toa, but with four arms instead of two.

That's a good point. The Toa themselves already have quite diverse body shapes, so extra limbs is hardly out of the question. And it's a much more sane explanation than there being a million different sapient species like in the canon MU.

 

Seeing as the Skull villains come from the city, it seems reasonable to assume that the ancestors of the modern Okotans were more physically imposing than their current descendants. If reproduction is a thing, then so is evolution, in all likelihood.

Agreed! And this opens the door for far more rational explanations than in Gen 1, where a bunch of explanations devolved into "Gee, the Great Beings made these decisions in designing everything which made no sense unless you think about it all being disposable nanotech and turn your head sideways and stand on one foot, and then it's clear as day you see?"

 

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For context

Ekimu defeats Kulta by knocking the MoC from his face. The transformation comes afterwards.

 

Now, sets don't always correspond to the story, but it seems odd for IoLM not to portray Ekimu fighting Grinder in the form in which he does so in "Mask Maker vs. Skull Grinder."

 

Still not an effective argument. For one thing, they're wearing armor. The scene you describe could just as easily mean he's weak and frail within his armor, and then regains his strength and vitality once connected to the MoC.

 

On the set thing, did you expect them to give us TWO versions of Ekimu in the same set? No, they give us one form to depict him at full power, as he was seen in the first animation. Who would want to buy a set of a guy that could barely stay together? See my point? Not a valid argument.

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Still not an effective argument. For one thing, they're wearing armor. The scene you describe could just as easily mean he's weak and frail within his armor, and then regains his strength and vitality once connected to the MoC.

 

"Frail" usually refers to someone physically weak. If his armor were inhibiting him, he'd probably be described as "unwieldy," or "weighed down," or some such thing. If I put a suit of armor on that's so heavy that it inhibits my movement, I wouldn't be described as frail, because I'm a perfectly strong person who nonetheless isn't brawny enough to move the suit with ease.

 

 

On the set thing, did you expect them to give us TWO versions of Ekimu in the same set? No, they give us one form to depict him at full power, as he was seen in the first animation. Who would want to buy a set of a guy that could barely stay together? See my point? Not a valid argument.

I don't. But the story is grown up around the sets, to a large degree. If the book depicts Ekimu as getting stronger after the year's big bad has been defeated, there must be a reason for it beyond the whims of Ryder Windham. Why not have him transform during the battle?

 

I don't see what's so improbable about us getting an upgraded version of Ekimu next year. It's a grand Bionicle tradition, after all.

 

As for the appeal, or lack thereof, of Ekimu's weakness, I should note that he's still able to hold his own against Grinder, when

all the Toa are defeated by him. Granted, he might not have done so without their help, but he's pretty spry for an old fellow.

He's frail by the standards of his species, but not necessarily by those of the Protectors. Besides, when has frailty made Yoda unappealing?

 

The animation is going to portray him as he's shown this year, I should think, for the twin purposes of marketing and confusion prevention.

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Still not an effective argument. For one thing, they're wearing armor. The scene you describe could just as easily mean he's weak and frail within his armor, and then regains his strength and vitality once connected to the MoC.

 

"Frail" usually refers to someone physically weak. If his armor were inhibiting him, he'd probably be described as "unwieldy," or "weighed down," or some such thing. If I put a suit of armor on that's so heavy that it inhibits my movement, I wouldn't be described as frail, because I'm a perfectly strong person who nonetheless isn't brawny enough to move the suit with ease.

 

 

On the set thing, did you expect them to give us TWO versions of Ekimu in the same set? No, they give us one form to depict him at full power, as he was seen in the first animation. Who would want to buy a set of a guy that could barely stay together? See my point? Not a valid argument.

I don't. But the story is grown up around the sets, to a large degree. If the book depicts Ekimu as getting stronger after the year's big bad has been defeated, there must be a reason for it beyond the whims of Ryder Windham. Why not have him transform during the battle?

 

I don't see what's so improbable about us getting an upgraded version of Ekimu next year. It's a grand Bionicle tradition, after all.

 

As for the appeal, or lack thereof, of Ekimu's weakness, I should note that he's still able to hold his own against Grinder, when

all the Toa are defeated by him. Granted, he might not have done so without their help, but he's pretty spry for an old fellow.

He's frail by the standards of his species, but not necessarily by those of the Protectors. Besides, when has frailty made Yoda unappealing?

 

The animation is going to portray him as he's shown this year, I should think, for the twin purposes of marketing and confusion prevention.

 

Look at it this way.

 

The animations this year depicted Ekimu wearing the Mask of Creation. Didn't he look EXACTLY like the set then? Between his being entombed for some-odd decades, he would have physically deteriorated, yes? Then, he wakes up, smacks Kulta in the face, and takes back his mask, rejuvenating him, which makes him look (surprise, surprise!) EXACTLY like he did when he was wearing the same mask at the beginning of the year!

 

Why would putting the same mask on AGAIN change him into a new form that he didn't have before?

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Look at it this way.

 

The animations this year depicted Ekimu wearing the Mask of Creation. Didn't he look EXACTLY like the set then? Between his being entombed for some-odd decades, he would have physically deteriorated, yes? Then, he wakes up, smacks Kulta in the face, and takes back his mask, rejuvenating him, which makes him look (surprise, surprise!) EXACTLY like he did when he was wearing the same mask at the beginning of the year!

 

Why would putting the same mask on AGAIN change him into a new form that he didn't have before?

 

This would work, if it didn't ignore the points I brought up. What you're saying makes sense, if we consider only the animations and the book. Once we factor in the fact that this is a LEGO toyline, things change.

 

Firstly, the animation is going to show Ekimu in his 2015 form, regardless of whether he should canonically be in a different form (our putative 2016 upgrade.)  The Legend Animation was released in September of 2014, at which point it's doubtful if the 2016 sets had even undergone playtesting. Even if they had, LEGO would want to promote Ekimu as he appears in "Mask Maker vs. Skull Grinder." Nor would it want to confuse or disappoint buyers by showing him in a larger form than his 2015 one.

 

Of course, none of this actually proves that he'll get a 2016 form. That's where the book comes in.

Now, Island of the Lost Masks does not describe its characters physical appearances in any great depth. It is assumed that the reader knows what an Okotan villager and a Skull Spider look like. Pohatu is described as "a tall, shadowy figure" wearing "a brown mask, the same color as the mask worn by Nilkuu" and carrying "a long dagger and a pair of curved throwing weapons that Nilkuu recognized as legendary stromerangs." The reader's mental image of the characters is going to be based on the sets.

 

So, given that "MMk vs. SG" depicts Ekimu fighting Kulta, the reader will imagine him in that form, when reading the appropriate section of the book, barring some notable discrepancy. Ekimu getting a more powerful form after defeating Skull Grinder does not line up with the set, if we assume that form to be his set form. Seeing as the book exists to promote the sets, such a difference seems at least a bit improbable. If, on the other hand, the transformation is to a hitherto unseen form (the sort of upgrade that is quite plausible in BIONICLE,) it makes sense.

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So, given that "MMk vs. SG" depicts Ekimu fighting Kulta, the reader will imagine him in that form, when reading the appropriate section of the book, barring some notable discrepancy. Ekimu getting a more powerful form after defeating Skull Grinder does not line up with the set, if we assume that form to be his set form. Seeing as the book exists to promote the sets, such a difference seems at least a bit improbable. If, on the other hand, the transformation is to a hitherto unseen form (the sort of upgrade that is quite plausible in BIONICLE,) it makes sense.

 

You were doing so well up to this point.

 

The quote you posted earlier directly said that his form was old and withered, did it not? If you were to be sleeping in a stone box for decades/centuries/whatever, would you not come out looking a little dead yourself? You say that the book's lack of descriptions enables the reader to use their imagination. Suddenly, you turn around and say that the readers CAN'T imagine a withered form being rejuvenated into the form we've seen in every other form of media. Being in a coma for so long, without food, water, or exercise, would naturally leave one looking a little worse for wear. Are you assuming that readers can't comprehend that?

 

Again, he wore the same mask for who knows how long before it was knocked from his face. Why did it not change him back then? What was different about this time? 

 

None of your argument makes any sense. 

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The quote you posted earlier directly said that his form was old and withered, did it not? If you were to be sleeping in a stone box for decades/centuries/whatever, would you not come out looking a little dead yourself? You say that the book's lack of descriptions enables the reader to use their imagination. Suddenly, you turn around and say that the readers CAN'T imagine a withered form being rejuvenated into the form we've seen in every other form of media. Being in a coma for so long, without food, water, or exercise, would naturally leave one looking a little worse for wear. Are you assuming that readers can't comprehend that?

 

You misunderstand me. I am not saying that readers cannot comprehend Ekimu transforming from a weaker form into his 2015 set form. I am saying that there is little reason for them to, given the set in which he appears.

 

Look at it from the perspective of the reader. Ekimu is awakened. He's described as elderly. There is nothing that contradicts his appearance in 70795. So you assume that this is more or less the way he appears in the book. He fights and defeats Kulta without any change in appearance. Then he transforms. Now, the idea that the form in which he confronted Grinder is not the one portrayed in "Mask Maker vs. Skull Grinder" is hardly the most intuitive, is it? Why would LEGO let Mr. Wyndham say "Psych! The set you bought is inaccurate, kids!" It's a bizarre choice, if it as you say it is.

 

Again, he wore the same mask for who knows how long before it was knocked from his face. Why did it not change him back then? What was different about this time?

What I'm trying to say is that his form at the end of the book is the form he had when he wore the mask previously. The Legend Animation is misleading in this regards.

 

Let's face it, one of the three depictions of Ekimu has to be inaccurate. They don't add up. I find the set the least likely to be wrong, for obvious reasons. The book comes next, given its comprehensive nature, its level of detail, and its contributions to BIONICLE lore. This leaves the Legend animation as the most likely candidate.

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The quote you posted earlier directly said that his form was old and withered, did it not? If you were to be sleeping in a stone box for decades/centuries/whatever, would you not come out looking a little dead yourself? You say that the book's lack of descriptions enables the reader to use their imagination. Suddenly, you turn around and say that the readers CAN'T imagine a withered form being rejuvenated into the form we've seen in every other form of media. Being in a coma for so long, without food, water, or exercise, would naturally leave one looking a little worse for wear. Are you assuming that readers can't comprehend that?

 

You misunderstand me. I am not saying that readers cannot comprehend Ekimu transforming from a weaker form into his 2015 set form. I am saying that there is little reason for them to, given the set in which he appears.

 

Look at it from the perspective of the reader. Ekimu is awakened. He's described as elderly. There is nothing that contradicts his appearance in 70795. So you assume that this is more or less the way he appears in the book. He fights and defeats Kulta without any change in appearance. Then he transforms. Now, the idea that the form in which he confronted Grinder is not the one portrayed in "Mask Maker vs. Skull Grinder" is hardly the most intuitive, is it? Why would LEGO let Mr. Wyndham say "Psych! The set you bought is inaccurate, kids!" It's a bizarre choice, if it as you say it is.

 

Again, he wore the same mask for who knows how long before it was knocked from his face. Why did it not change him back then? What was different about this time?

What I'm trying to say is that his form at the end of the book is the form he had when he wore the mask previously. The Legend Animation is misleading in this regards.

 

Let's face it, one of the three depictions of Ekimu has to be inaccurate. They don't add up. I find the set the least likely to be wrong, for obvious reasons. The book comes next, given its comprehensive nature, its level of detail, and its contributions to BIONICLE lore. This leaves the Legend animation as the most likely candidate.

 

1) Is it so impossible to imagine a skinnier version of the set? You know LEGO isn't going to make old-and-wrinkly parts just to "accurately" portray a character as he appears in a small handful of scenes in a book. Why do that? 

 

2) Which do you think came first? The animation, or the book? Given how early the animation got to us, and the fact that they said at the big reveal last November that they'd been working on the designs for months beforehand, we have to assume that both the set and animation came long before the book was ever written.

 

 

Answer me this: Where is your evidence for Ekimu being transformed into something new? 

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T1S, Quisoves, can you agree that Ekimu's set form (Mask Maker) is the most likely form people, and children, will picture him in this year when reading the book?

Now let's step back. We take Mask maker as being either Ekimu fresh out of the box (Old, wrinkled, weakened) or Ekimu after having been rejuvenated by the MoCr/his magic banhammer. The former is unlikely, considering the dynamic pose he's shown in on the box. So we can then guess that the mask maker is supposed to be rejuvenated Ekimu. This rejuvenated Ekimu is the one which the animations show in episode 00, smacking Makuta's face with a hammer. Does this mean the Mask Maker is how Ekimu the character is supposed to look, and the weakening is the effect of being in the coffin for so long like G1's Toa Mata? I'd say so. That then means that Mask Maker is Ekimu as he's supposed to be, and it's very unlikely we'd be getting an 'upgrade' next year of him that isn't an actual upgrade or armouring up. Ekimu is Mask Maker. Mask maker is Ekimu in his natural, non-mummified state.

 

Now, I'm not saying there isn't a possibility of Ekimu upgrading, or that TLG is using the Mask Maker to represent Ekimu during the animations when they really picture him as Toa-sized, but what I am saying is that it's an awful lot of effort for no gain. Let's let that debate rest now, OK?

 

Back to the OP:

The Skulls could be multiple Protector-sized skeletons rebuilt into Toa-sized creatures. Like they (Makuta, Kulta, the Okotoan Skeleton-Rearrangement Committee) took the shin 'bones' of two City Protectors and used that amount to create a shin 'bone' twice as big.

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Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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T1S, Quisoves, can you agree that Ekimu's set form (Mask Maker) is the most likely form people, and children, will picture him in this year when reading the book?

Thank you! Finally, someone else talking sense.

 

Anyway, back to the topic. While I agree that some of the Skull army could be pieced together from numerous villagers rather than being deceased large beings from the past, I don't think that works for all of them.

 

Scorpio might very well be a scorpion creature combined with a villager skeleton. That works.

 

Warrior, could work as a myriad of skeletons pieced together. Same for Basher, but the horns kinda make me hesitate.

 

Slicer is the only one who I don't think it works for. For him, at least, we know he existed in the past. His description doesn't suggest that he was modified, so I'm gonna assume that he was always like that, just with more meat on him.

 

Kulta, I'm not too sure on. The story implies that he woke all these skeletons up, so that means either he was resurrected by someone else, or he's been around for a long time and this is just him showing signs of a lifespan extended far past its expiration date.

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1) That's not the problem. The problem is the lack of evidence that the set form isn't the older Ekimu.

 

2) I've no idea which came first, but I don't see that it matters. As I explained before, it's unlikely LEGO would want to show Ekimu in anything but his 2015 form in 2014. Besides, it's not as if being later makes what the book says any less valid.

 

 


Answer me this: Where is your evidence for Ekimu being transformed into something new?

 

 

The light from the glowing hammer expanded over Ekimu and his figure, and he was transformed from a frail figure into a powerful warrior.

 

It is important that the scene takes place after Kulta has been defeated.

The former is unlikely, considering the dynamic pose he's shown in on the box.

The dynamic pose

is portrayed in the IoLM, where Ekimu leaps into the air and knocks the Mask of Creation off of Grinder's face. The transformation comes afterwards.

 

 

 

 

but what I am saying is that it's an awful lot of effort for no gain. Let's let that debate rest now, OK?

I don't see how where the effort is. It's quite simple. The Legend animation portrays Ekimu as he is in 2015, for reasons explained above. All this requires is for the artist to draw him that way. Then the book portrays him as older until he defeats Grinder, at which point he gains a stronger body. All this requires is for Ryder Wyndham to describe him as such.

That's my last word (I hope) on the matter.

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