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Why did Teridax need the mask of time?


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Is there a canonical explanation why Teridax required the Vahi for his plan? What/Who did he intend to use it on? I've read almost all books, all comics and all serials but I haven't seen it mentioned. Also, what would be your headcanon explanation as to why Teridax required the mask?

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It was confirmed that he wanted to use it to make the 1000-year sleep of the Matoran go much faster. Basically, he didn't want to sit around and wait for the MAtoran to wake up, and for Mata Nui to die so he could take over the robot. He would slow himself down and "wake up" as soon as everything was ready.

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It was confirmed that he wanted to use it to make the 1000-year sleep of the Matoran go much faster. Basically, he didn't want to sit around and wait for the MAtoran to wake up, and for Mata Nui to die so he could take over the robot. He would slow himself down and "wake up" as soon as everything was ready.

The Vahi's influence is somewhat limited in scope to the MU, correct? That's why he wouldn't be able to simply accelerate all of time forward, but instead had to influence his own? Or am I misunderstanding there?

 

Assuming that's true, he'd essentially be "out of phase" while using the mask and would simply seem to have disappeared to the passing world?

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It was confirmed that he wanted to use it to make the 1000-year sleep of the Matoran go much faster. Basically, he didn't want to sit around and wait for the MAtoran to wake up, and for Mata Nui to die so he could take over the robot. He would slow himself down and "wake up" as soon as everything was ready.

The Vahi's influence is somewhat limited in scope to the MU, correct? That's why he wouldn't be able to simply accelerate all of time forward, but instead had to influence his own? Or am I misunderstanding there?

 

Assuming that's true, he'd essentially be "out of phase" while using the mask and would simply seem to have disappeared to the passing world?

 

Correct. He would freeze himself, and technically be out of sync with everything else.

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It was just a way to skip the waiting process for the brainwashing of Matoran. Also, since he mentions in the second movie that it could be used to look into his destiny and the destiny of others, thus he could alter his plan to ensure its success. 

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I do agree that exactly why it's needed is never properly explained, and when I attempt to justify it to myself, it sounds like "Teridax didn't want to wait all that time." For a determined megalomaniac, he sure is impatient.

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I thought that is was because he thought he would be able to travel forward in time until mata nui was dead so that he could take over the MU.

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For a determined megalomaniac, he sure is impatient.

Wait, megalomaniacs are patient? This is news to me.

 

I meant in the sense that he's otherwise portrayed as being ambitious and willing to go every length to ensure his Plan will succeed. As I understood the Vahi's role, it seemed to be more of a convenience than an absolute necessity.
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This is Teridax we're talking about. The Plan probably had tons of optional objectives just so those who want to thwart him can't tell what to stop to undermine the Plan

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Correct. He would freeze himself, and technically be out of sync with everything else.

 

I thought he just wanted to speed up the Matoran spheres, not freeze himself until the Great Spirit died. I could easily see him waiting for Mata Nui to die naturally once he was ruling the Matoran. By slowing himself down, he'd run the risk of something else taking over Metru Nui while he was away.

 

If, say, the Dark Hunters moved in and had 1000 years to get established/brainwash the Matoran, there'd be no way to get them out short of full-scale war, which would be messy and result in Metru Nui being utterly trashed along with the deaths of a lot of the Matoran he wanted to rule.

 

 

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Correct. He would freeze himself, and technically be out of sync with everything else.

 

I thought he just wanted to speed up the Matoran spheres, not freeze himself until the Great Spirit died. I could easily see him waiting for Mata Nui to die naturally once he was ruling the Matoran. By slowing himself down, he'd run the risk of something else taking over Metru Nui while he was away.

 

If, say, the Dark Hunters moved in and had 1000 years to get established/brainwash the Matoran, there'd be no way to get them out short of full-scale war, which would be messy and result in Metru Nui being utterly trashed along with the deaths of a lot of the Matoran he wanted to rule.

 

 

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You say that like he didn't plan for that sort of thing. :P This is Teridax, you know. He had like 12 backups for every step of the Plan.

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Even Teridax isn't going to go for a less convenient option that requires a backup simply because it's stupid.

 

Speeding up the Matoran would speed up his plans for world conquest while allowing him to ensure that no enemies got in the way of his rule of Metru Nui. He would probably enjoy his 1000 years of amusement torturing Matoran while waiting for Mata Nui to kick the bucket.

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Even Teridax isn't going to go for a less convenient option that requires a backup simply because it's stupid.

 

Speeding up the Matoran would speed up his plans for world conquest while allowing him to ensure that no enemies got in the way of his rule of Metru Nui. He would probably enjoy his 1000 years of amusement torturing Matoran while waiting for Mata Nui to kick the bucket.

Who's to say the guy was incapable of speeding back up to deal with a threat?

 

Remember, the Matoran are critical to MN's health. If they were allowed to wake up sooner, repair the city, and go about their lives living under their new ruler, then there would have been a greater chance of MN not dying at all. The only other option was to speed up the entire robot, so that it died sooner. But that can't happen since we know the Vahi couldn't speed time up.

 

What does that leave us with?

1) Vahi can only slow things down

2) Matoran had to be asleep so MN's health would fail

3) Terry could easily have come out of his time-sleep to deal with anything if he'd set up safeguards to be able to sense it. 

 

You can take it from there. :)

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The matoran do not need to be asleep for Mata Nui's health to be compromised. Remember, the first (documented) time when there was the need for the Ignika was because of the Matoran Civil War. Teridax just needed to have the brainwashed matoran to no longer believe in the three virtues, meaning that they would no more attain to their chores and boom Mata Nui's dying.

 

Where is it said that the Vahi can only slow down? I just don't remember, I'll be glad if you could provide your source.

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The matoran do not need to be asleep for Mata Nui's health to be compromised. Remember, the first (documented) time when there was the need for the Ignika was because of the Matoran Civil War. Teridax just needed to have the brainwashed matoran to no longer believe in the three virtues, meaning that they would no more attain to their chores and boom Mata Nui's dying.

 

Where is it said that the Vahi can only slow down? I just don't remember, I'll be glad if you could provide your source.

1) During the war, they were not working--not doing what they were meant to do. Whether it's sleeping or fighting each other, if they aren't working, it deals a blow to MN's health. Since Teridax already had them snoozing, why change it? MN dies, and he wins.

 

2) We've never seen it do anything else, and Greg has said so multiple times. That's common knowledge, or so I thought.

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Why would Teridax want Mata Nui dead in the early stages of his plot? Didn't they say multiple times throughout the Ignition Saga that if Mata Nui dies everything inside the MCU eventually dies too? While Mata Nui's death was likely something Terry predicted and planned accordingly for, I don't think that it was essential or even part of the original plan. If Mata Nui died, he would basically have nothing left to rule.

As I've always understood it, The Plan evolved into something more after he was defeated by the Metru. I believe that at first he wanted to speed up the process of their brainwashing so that he could put them back to work under HIS guidance instead of Mata Nui's. Keeping the universe alive, but still asleep so that he could rule for all eternity. It was only when that plan was thwarted that he changed his motives, ensured Mata Nui's death, and decided to go-big-or-go-home in actually becoming the universe itself.

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Why would Teridax want Mata Nui dead in the early stages of his plot? Didn't they say multiple times throughout the Ignition Saga that if Mata Nui dies everything inside the MCU eventually dies too? While Mata Nui's death was likely something Terry predicted and planned accordingly for, I don't think that it was essential or even part of the original plan. If Mata Nui died, he would basically have nothing left to rule.

As I've always understood it, The Plan evolved into something more after he was defeated by the Metru. I believe that at first he wanted to speed up the process of their brainwashing so that he could put them back to work under HIS guidance instead of Mata Nui's. Keeping the universe alive, but still asleep so that he could rule for all eternity. It was only when that plan was thwarted that he changed his motives, ensured Mata Nui's death, and decided to go-big-or-go-home in actually becoming the universe itself.

His intention was to possess the GSR. But a body can't contain more than one mind/spirit. If MN was still there, Teridax wouldn't be able to truly rule. He needed MN to die so that the spirit would leave the body. He knew good and well that the Robot would be resurrected--no one would allow for it to die--and so he would have that gap between the resurrection and the spirit's return during which he could slip right in and take over. And that's exactly what happened. Teridax got MN out of the way so he could become the ultimate ruler.

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The matoran do not need to be asleep for Mata Nui's health to be compromised. Remember, the first (documented) time when there was the need for the Ignika was because of the Matoran Civil War. Teridax just needed to have the brainwashed matoran to no longer believe in the three virtues, meaning that they would no more attain to their chores and boom Mata Nui's dying.

 

Where is it said that the Vahi can only slow down? I just don't remember, I'll be glad if you could provide your source.

1) During the war, they were not working--not doing what they were meant to do. Whether it's sleeping or fighting each other, if they aren't working, it deals a blow to MN's health. Since Teridax already had them snoozing, why change it? MN dies, and he wins.

 

2) We've never seen it do anything else, and Greg has said so multiple times. That's common knowledge, or so I thought.

 

According to BS01, the mask can slow down or speed up time, but not perform time travel.
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Why would Teridax want Mata Nui dead in the early stages of his plot? Didn't they say multiple times throughout the Ignition Saga that if Mata Nui dies everything inside the MCU eventually dies too? While Mata Nui's death was likely something Terry predicted and planned accordingly for, I don't think that it was essential or even part of the original plan. If Mata Nui died, he would basically have nothing left to rule.

As I've always understood it, The Plan evolved into something more after he was defeated by the Metru. I believe that at first he wanted to speed up the process of their brainwashing so that he could put them back to work under HIS guidance instead of Mata Nui's. Keeping the universe alive, but still asleep so that he could rule for all eternity. It was only when that plan was thwarted that he changed his motives, ensured Mata Nui's death, and decided to go-big-or-go-home in actually becoming the universe itself.

His intention was to possess the GSR. But a body can't contain more than one mind/spirit. If MN was still there, Teridax wouldn't be able to truly rule. He needed MN to die so that the spirit would leave the body. He knew good and well that the Robot would be resurrected--no one would allow for it to die--and so he would have that gap between the resurrection and the spirit's return during which he could slip right in and take over. And that's exactly what happened. Teridax got MN out of the way so he could become the ultimate ruler.

 

I don't think he really wanted to possess the GSR himself initially. Remember, Terry's big beef was lack of Matoran recognition. So it would make sense to focus on them - brainwashing them into praising the Great Makuta Teridax and ruling over them from his Metru Nui throne. With Mata Nui asleep and nonetheless alive, he would have little threats to his power and brainwashing plan. 

 

And it is canon that he thought up the plan to possess the bot after this plan had been thwarted - because in reality becoming the universe's controller would not give him the admiration he craved. Instead, the robot takeover plan was cold hearted vengeance for that lack of recognition. 

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I think it's important to remember that his Plan evolved into what it ended up being, rather than something he intended from the very start. When Zaktan found his notes in Legacy of Evil, it was evident that it was more of a gradual logbook than anything, with certain notes scribbled out and whatnot. In the Makuta's Guide to the Universe book, there are a few "diaries" from his perspective, and it says in one of those that he admits that his plans during the 04 story were too small scale, in hindsight. I don't think he intended on taking over Mata Nui's body until sometime during the first three years' story. Besides, didn't Greg say at one point that he didn't even know that Mata Nui was the universe until relatively recently? Like maybe right before the Mask of Light plot?

 

Regardless, I think the accepted answer to the original question is that he just wanted to use the mask on the Matoran spheres to speed up the brainwashing process.

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I think it's important to remember that his Plan evolved into what it ended up being, rather than something he intended from the very start. When Zaktan found his notes in Legacy of Evil, it was evident that it was more of a gradual logbook than anything, with certain notes scribbled out and whatnot. In the Makuta's Guide to the Universe book, there are a few "diaries" from his perspective, and it says in one of those that he admits that his plans during the 04 story were too small scale, in hindsight. I don't think he intended on taking over Mata Nui's body until sometime during the first three years' story. Besides, didn't Greg say at one point that he didn't even know that Mata Nui was the universe until relatively recently? Like maybe right before the Mask of Light plot?

 

Regardless, I think the accepted answer to the original question is that he just wanted to use the mask on the Matoran spheres to speed up the brainwashing process.

Nah, I thought he came up with that plan while in a protodermis seal (tip my hat to you, Toa Metru). He finally figured out Tren Krom's revealings in full while he was stuck to his thought alone for years.

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I think it's important to remember that his Plan evolved into what it ended up being, rather than something he intended from the very start. When Zaktan found his notes in Legacy of Evil, it was evident that it was more of a gradual logbook than anything, with certain notes scribbled out and whatnot. In the Makuta's Guide to the Universe book, there are a few "diaries" from his perspective, and it says in one of those that he admits that his plans during the 04 story were too small scale, in hindsight. I don't think he intended on taking over Mata Nui's body until sometime during the first three years' story. Besides, didn't Greg say at one point that he didn't even know that Mata Nui was the universe until relatively recently? Like maybe right before the Mask of Light plot?

 

Regardless, I think the accepted answer to the original question is that he just wanted to use the mask on the Matoran spheres to speed up the brainwashing process.

Nah, I thought he came up with that plan while in a protodermis seal (tip my hat to you, Toa Metru). He finally figured out Tren Krom's revealings in full while he was stuck to his thought alone for years.

 

 

That would make more sense, actually. But still, he didn't really come up with it and put it into motion until after his shenanigans in the 04 Metru Nui story, so far as I know.

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It was confirmed that he wanted to use it to make the 1000-year sleep of the Matoran go much faster. Basically, he didn't want to sit around and wait for the MAtoran to wake up, and for Mata Nui to die so he could take over the robot. He would slow himself down and "wake up" as soon as everything was ready.

Source please?

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It was confirmed that he wanted to use it to make the 1000-year sleep of the Matoran go much faster. Basically, he didn't want to sit around and wait for the MAtoran to wake up, and for Mata Nui to die so he could take over the robot. He would slow himself down and "wake up" as soon as everything was ready.

Source please?

 

Greg. :) And the progression of events in the whole of the '04-'05 story. :)

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It was confirmed that he wanted to use it to make the 1000-year sleep of the Matoran go much faster. Basically, he didn't want to sit around and wait for the MAtoran to wake up, and for Mata Nui to die so he could take over the robot. He would slow himself down and "wake up" as soon as everything was ready.

Source please?

 

Greg. :) And the progression of events in the whole of the '04-'05 story. :)

 

By saying, "Source please?", I think he wants some proof, such as a quote and maybe where the source of your information came from, like books and what-not.

 

 

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It was confirmed that he wanted to use it to make the 1000-year sleep of the Matoran go much faster. Basically, he didn't want to sit around and wait for the MAtoran to wake up, and for Mata Nui to die so he could take over the robot. He would slow himself down and "wake up" as soon as everything was ready.

Source please?

 

Greg. :) And the progression of events in the whole of the '04-'05 story. :)

 

By saying, "Source please?", I think he wants some proof, such as a quote and maybe where the source of your information came from, like books and what-not.

 

 

 

I'm not as fluent with the Greg quotes as Fishers is. As for books/comics/whatnot, there were no moments that explicitly state exactly what the Vahi is for. I told him what he needs to know--look at how Teridax handled the Vahi situation during that time period, and see how that matches up with what I said--which is more or less a paraphrase of how Greg put it multiple times over.

 

It's not rocket science.

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I don't think you should be surprised that I and many others here trust the word of BS01 more than your claims without legitimate proof to back them up. 

<_<

 

As do I, Surprise, surprise, but I get my information by doing research.

 

Teridax:

 

The Makuta was plotting to place all the Matoran in Matoran Spheres; over the course of a few years, their memories and strength would slowly be removed, but Teridax planned to use the Vahi to speed up the process. Once the Matoran awoke, he would claim himself as their rescuer and ruler.

 

I notice that this says he wanted to "speed up the process." We can take this one of two ways:

1) Speed up the process by slowing himself down

2) Speeding up time around the Matoran pods

 

Either way, it all boils down to Teridax ruling over Metru Nui in a very impatient manner, as I've said since the start. 

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But you yourself are claiming that his plan never changed.

 

 

I don't think you should be surprised that I and many others here trust the word of BS01 more than your claims without legitimate proof to back them up. 

<_<

 

As do I, Surprise, surprise, but I get my information by doing research.

 

Teridax:

 

 

Not very good research. Because literally on that page you linked me to it says

 

"These setbacks caused Teridax to widen the scope of his ambition, beyond rendering the Great Spirit comatose and ruling Metru Nui. Under his new plan, Teridax would replace Mata Nui as ruler of the universe."

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But you yourself are claiming that his plan never changed.

 

 

I don't think you should be surprised that I and many others here trust the word of BS01 more than your claims without legitimate proof to back them up. 

<_<

 

As do I, Surprise, surprise, but I get my information by doing research.

 

Teridax:

 

 

Not very good research. Because literally on that page you linked me to it says

 

"These setbacks caused Teridax to widen the scope of his ambition, beyond rendering the Great Spirit comatose and ruling Metru Nui. Under his new plan, Teridax would replace Mata Nui as ruler of the universe."

Oh, you meant THAT part. Please, use context in the future. It's very helpful for everyone else.

 

When did I ever say that his plan DIDN'T change? 

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But you yourself are claiming that his plan never changed.

 

 

I don't think you should be surprised that I and many others here trust the word of BS01 more than your claims without legitimate proof to back them up. 

<_<

 

As do I, Surprise, surprise, but I get my information by doing research.

 

Teridax:

 

 

Not very good research. Because literally on that page you linked me to it says

 

"These setbacks caused Teridax to widen the scope of his ambition, beyond rendering the Great Spirit comatose and ruling Metru Nui. Under his new plan, Teridax would replace Mata Nui as ruler of the universe."

Oh, you meant THAT part. Please, use context in the future. It's very helpful for everyone else.

 

When did I ever say that his plan DIDN'T change? 

 

What are you talking about? It's what everyone here has been talking about. :P

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What are you talking about? It's what everyone here has been talking about. :P

 

No, the original question was "Why did Terry need the Vahi?" not "Did Terry change his plan at any given point?" Since I've been discussing about 3 different aspects within this one topic, it didn't help for him to just assume I knew which one of those items he was wondering about.

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What are you talking about? It's what everyone here has been talking about. :P

 

No, the original question was "Why did Terry need the Vahi?" not "Did Terry change his plan at any given point?" Since I've been discussing about 3 different aspects within this one topic, it didn't help for him to just assume I knew which one of those items he was wondering about.

 

 I was able to see which one he was talking about, but It's alright, no one's perfect. Of the many curses of humanity I suppose...

 

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What are you talking about? It's what everyone here has been talking about.  :P

 

No, the original question was "Why did Terry need the Vahi?" not "Did Terry change his plan at any given point?" Since I've been discussing about 3 different aspects within this one topic, it didn't help for him to just assume I knew which one of those items he was wondering about.

 

 

Forgive me, but from my perspective we were all on the same page and you were the one potentially contradicting yourself. The reason I brought up BS01 at all was because you were saying the Mask could only slow down time, when there it clearly says the mask can do more there. I also find it ironic that you say I should use context when we all were using words like "Original," "At first," "After '04" etc. My context clues were even in BOLD for my first post. 

 

Maybe I'm also in the wrong from not quoting directly what I was referring to, but you don't have to be a patronizing about it. 

 

OH WELL. Nobody wins. We can all probably do a bit more to be clear. But we're all sort of on the right track now? Can we agree to that at least?

Edited by IXRollOutIX
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Maybe I'm also in the wrong from not quoting directly what I was referring to, but you don't have to be a patronizing about it. 

 

OH WELL. Nobody wins. We can all probably do a bit more to be clear. But we're all sort of on the right track now? Can we agree to that at least?

 

After I answered your first post, I went on to ignore it and discuss a related topic with Wazdakka. Immediately following that was your second comment, which lacked context, leading me to assume you were responding to my last post, not my earlier response to you.

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Maybe I'm also in the wrong from not quoting directly what I was referring to, but you don't have to be a patronizing about it. 

 

OH WELL. Nobody wins. We can all probably do a bit more to be clear. But we're all sort of on the right track now? Can we agree to that at least?

 

After I answered your first post, I went on to ignore it and discuss a related topic with Wazdakka. Immediately following that was your second comment, which lacked context, leading me to assume you were responding to my last post, not my earlier response to you.

 

EUGH. Okay. Maybe less multitasking next time, then? I feel it led to confusion for you; clearly it led to confusion for more than a couple of us, also. 

 

-Yes, I should have been more clear if I could have. 

-Yes, I should have quoted exactly what I was addressing.

-Yes, I could barely follow everything you were saying to so many different people.

 

You made mistakes. I made mistakes. Everyone is a little bit right. Everyone is a little bit wrong. All of this is irrelevant since I think that now we all understand. Squabbling back and forth and pretending that both of us were completely understandable from the start gets us nowhere.

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Maybe I'm also in the wrong from not quoting directly what I was referring to, but you don't have to be a patronizing about it. 

 

OH WELL. Nobody wins. We can all probably do a bit more to be clear. But we're all sort of on the right track now? Can we agree to that at least?

 

After I answered your first post, I went on to ignore it and discuss a related topic with Wazdakka. Immediately following that was your second comment, which lacked context, leading me to assume you were responding to my last post, not my earlier response to you.

 

EUGH. Okay. Maybe less multitasking next time, then? I feel it led to confusion for you; clearly it led to confusion for more than a couple of us, also. 

 

-Yes, I should have been more clear if I could have. 

-Yes, I should have quoted exactly what I was addressing.

-Yes, I could barely follow everything you were saying to so many different people.

 

You made mistakes. I made mistakes. Everyone is a little bit right. Everyone is a little bit wrong. All of this is irrelevant since I think that now we all understand. Squabbling back and forth and pretending that both of us were completely understandable from the start gets us nowhere.

 

Thanks for writing that out. I tried to say it myself, but I felt I was being rude so I reworded it and added a joke. Props to you.

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