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TheSkeletonMan939

Bionicle at HFR

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Most films are designed to play back at about 24 frames per second (though are 25 frames per second if you live in a PAL region). Recently some intrepid filmmakers have been journeying into the world of high frame rates: Peter Jackson had select showings of his Hobbit trilogy played back at 48 fps, and apparently James Cameron wants his Avatar sequels to be seen in a high frame rate as well. The problem is that most people think that high frame rates are "weird" and "strange" and just don't look very good.

 

Recently I found a little AviSynth script that takes video files and combines frames to make "fake" ones, effectively giving off the impression that the video is true HFR video. Does it look good? I'll let you decide! I've taken several animation formats and performed the process on them. Let me know how they turned out and if you think high frame rate is truly the way of the future!

 

N.B.; YouTube only allows high frame rate videos in HD. So you'll need a good internet connection to view these. I don't know why the YouTube tags don't work for the last two videos, maybe it'll fix itself later. You have to watch these in HD for them to actually play back at the high frame rate.

 

Toa Mahri Animation

 

 

If you live in Germany that's too bad because this video is blocked there. Given that the 3D models for these Ghost animations are supposed to look just like the toys, the increased frame rate makes the movements of the characters seem even more lifelike; it all looks less deliberate and perhaps a bit more natural.

 

The Legend Reborn

 

 

(I think the audio is out of sync for this one. Sorryyyyy....) Here's why people don't like high frame rates: it looks too good. And that's just the problem here. It gets to a point where the action doesn't feel realistic or cinematic, just weird-looking. And that's how I think this turned out.

 

Prophecy of Heroes

 

 

I don't know about you, but I think these new animations look sort of cheap. Increasing the number of frames really doesn't do much except a couple of instances, and the smoothness of those sequences clashes with the Hanna-Barbara levels of simplicity that the rest of the shorts sport. The pendulum on the Temple of Time looks entrancing though.

 

Compilation Video

 

 

A video project I did a few months back that makes use of all sorts of Bionicle video media, so I thought this would be a good one to use to show off how the script makes them all look. Footage from the film trilogy looks about the same, which is no surprise as the animation to those was pretty good to start with. The Ghost stuff looks much more lifelike and engrossing, as we've already seen, but the most noticeable difference is with the Templar animations. It looks waaay too sped up to be even remotely believable.

 

So: did you like what you saw? Does Bionicle look better at high frame rates? Or does it look best in its native video format?

Edited by TheSkeletonMan939
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That looks really, really good. Great idea using that program. Being an Halo player, 60fps always looks beautiful to me. Gives it a more lifelike image, I feel.


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Not going to lie, I had trouble distinguishing the difference. 

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I'm not a big fan of high frame rates in movies. It makes the whole thing look too fluid and fake to me. I don't mind it as much in these CG videos, but I find it really odd when it's used in live-action movies.

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Honestly, I didn't note too much of a difference.  The only time I did notice though was with TLR trailer, which looked a little odd in some places, just a little too fast paced in the action sequences.  Other than that, not too much of a difference as far as I can tell... :shrugs:

 

Although, the Mahri animation looks spectacular in HD, much better than the one they got on BS01...

 

EDIT: Ah yes, I also was one of those people who didn't read the fine print and watched it 1st time round at 360, not 720/1080.  derp :gavel:
 

Edited by unknown456
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I must say, this is quite good!  :D The change is definitely there, and it works perfectly!

Not going to lie, I had trouble distinguishing the difference. 

 

This is really interesting.

 

Although, the Mahri animation looks spectacular in HD, much better than the one they got on BS01...

 

Don't use BS01 for your video needs. They use YouTube and YouTube compresses stuff horribly... arguably it's one of the worst video sites out there.

 

The HD copy I got from Ghost's Vimeo account. It's the only one they have in HD, but they have other Bionicle animations in very high-quality SD (the audio is dual mono though...  :()

 

I worked for several months on the 7th version of the video archive for the BMP and it includes everything in the highest quality available if you're interested in Bionicle animations.

_____________

 

To give you all an idea of what live-action video would look like at a high frame rate, here's the third trailer for Days of Future Past (remember to watch in HD). For some reason the whole film looks very impressive at HFR... I think that's an exception though.  (PM me for the link if interested... forgot that Wolverine has a potty mouth) here's the first trailer for the eighth Harry Potter movie. Looks kinda bad on everything except CGI monsters (like the dragon or the promotional text).

 

(I forgot how many times Voldemort screamed "NYARRGH!" in the trailer... did he do it even once in the final cut of the film? :lol:)

 

High frame rate can look good in moderation, but I feel that overall it can be a disorienting distraction. It can quickly become a gimmick and not an actual useful feature for filmmakers (like 3D is right now.)

 

One idea I have for how HFR can be useful for improving the quality of a film is in Interstellar. Everything on Earth would run at the normal 24 fps while everything through the wormhole would run at 60. Kind of like how everything becomes color once Dorothy and Toto aren't in Kansas anymore...

 

Anywayyyy... I also want to run a trailer for The LEGO Movie through the process to see how that turns out.

 

If there's a certain Bionicle scene you want to see at 60fps let me know.

Edited by TheSkeletonMan939

 

 

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You are a god. 

I am not worthy. 

Edited by The Irrational Rock

bZpOwEr

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I must say, this is quite good!  :D The change is definitely there, and it works perfectly!

Not going to lie, I had trouble distinguishing the difference. 

 

This is really interesting.

 

 

Well, I've got a photographic memory, for one. :P Anything that didn't match my memory was seen as an improvement in this case.

 

Second, as you said, when viewing the video, you have to turn it up to HD (720 or higher), otherwise the difference is hardly there.

Edited by T1Shadow: The Artisan

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I must say, this is quite good!  :D The change is definitely there, and it works perfectly!

Not going to lie, I had trouble distinguishing the difference. 

 

This is really interesting.

 

 

Well, I've got a photographic memory, for one. :P Anything that didn't match my memory was seen as an improvement in this case.

 

Second, as you said, when viewing the video, you have to turn it up to HD (720 or higher), otherwise the difference is hardly there.

 

Oh snap, I was watching it on 360 and I thought that was it. Now it's even better than before! 


bZpOwEr

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Oh snap, I was watching it on 360

 

912accb5_picard-facepalm.png?w=150 ;)

 

Yeah, anything below 720p for YouTube runs at only 24fps. :/

 

And that's why some people saw no difference. :) 

 

Lesson to you all: Read the fine print.

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Oh snap, I was watching it on 360

 

912accb5_picard-facepalm.png?w=150 ;)

 

Yeah, anything below 720p for YouTube runs at only 24fps. :/

 

And that's why some people saw no difference. :)

 

Lesson to you all: Read the fine print.

 

k b0ss

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Whoa! Oh please do this for all the videos/at least the Barraki one. This looks awesome man, great job! the fps really does the trick!



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Whoa! Oh please do this for all the videos/at least the Barraki one.

 

Here's the Barraki video; I couldn't upload it to YouTube since it wasn't HD. Man, YouTube sucks...

 

This one looks very good, I'm surprised at how well it turned out compared to some of the others...


 

 

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That Mahri video was actually amazing. I do agree about the Legend Reborn trailer being too fast, but the other videos aren't embedded for some reason. 


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Lordy, I hate HFR. It did absulotely nothing for these vids. Everything I've ever seen in HFR looks so unnaturally fluid that I can't even concentrate on anything else in the footage. (This isn't a criticism of your work, SkeletonMan; I think it's a neat idea.)

I will, however, agree with you in that HFR looks good in (extreme) moderation. There were split-second instances where HFR did improve certain scenes/effects. Something like that wouldn't bother me if it were handled by a skilled filmmaker (*cough*Abrams*cough*). But I sincerely hope that Hollywood doesn't start churning out nothing but HFR-heavy films like they have with CGI and 3D.

This gal won't take none o' y'all's newfangled film tricks. *waves cane*

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Don't worry, I love the feedback I'm getting, both positive and negative.

 

High frame rate is something a lot of people are pushing for and against, so it's fun to see where non-film geeks stand on it. So far some love it and some can't stand it.

 

But I sincerely hope that Hollywood doesn't start churning out nothing but HFR-heavy films like they have with CGI and 3D.

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly. 3D only exists to increase the ticket prices, very few filmmakers use it to actually improve the quality of the movie itself. High frame rate could easily become the next big gimmick, but I think reactions to the framerate of Jackson's Hobbit films were lukewarm at best. I hope that indicates Hollywood won't venture far into HFR film.

 

And with the fantastic praise for Fury Road - which I've read is 90% practical effects - I hope that Hollywood is soon swayed to spend less in the CGI department and more in the writing. (Speaking of Fury Road... if you're interested, there's a little tidbit about the frame rate of Max's recent adventure here.)

 

The only instance I can think of HFR would actually noticeably improve a film would be Interstellar, like I said earlier. All the Earth scenes would be 24fps, all the post-wormhole space scenes would be 60fps, and the part at the very end would be like 30-40fps... that would be a fun project.

 

 

I think the forum has a limit of two YouTube videos per post. 

 

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Edited by TheSkeletonMan939
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Yeah, HFR looked about as awkward in the Hobbit films as that Tauriel healing scene. :I

 

Awwww, I sorta liked that scene... :/

 

The music was beautiful.


 

 

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Woah, looks so smooth!
 

Unfortunately, while I love 60 fps in my video games, it looks a teeny bit too unnatural for film. Like it's sped up without really being sped up. Probably just used to 24 fps but dang this looks strange! Really cool work though!

 

-NotS


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The Mahri one benefitted immensely from the increased framerate. The Legend Reborn didn't look good with it and then I didn't notice a difference with the 2015 animation. And yes, I did have all 3 of those videos on HD


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While this is slightly off-topic, can anyone explain why high frame-rate is so good in video games, but (judging by your comments) fairly bad for film?

 

It's the same idea: displaying what is on the screen across more, shorter intervals. 


Steam Name: Toa Hahli Mahri. Xbox Live Gamertag: Makuta. Minecraft Username: ThePoohster.

Wants: 2003 Jaller (from Jaller and Gukko), Exo-Toa, Turaga Nuju, Turaga Vakama, Shadow Kraata, Axonn, Brutaka, Vezon & Fenrakk, Nocturn, ORANGE FIKOU.

I got rid of my picture, are you happy?

 

 

 

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While this is slightly off-topic, can anyone explain why high frame-rate is so good in video games, but (judging by your comments) fairly bad for film?

 

It's the same idea: displaying what is on the screen across more, shorter intervals. 

 

Video games are meant to be immersive in a way that films are not, and vice versa. Frame rate plays a part in that. People don't like their movies to be too real-looking, because they aren't necessarily a part of the story. They're looking through a window. People are comfortable with the frame rate they've been seeing films in all their lives, and changing that can warp their perception of how they interact with the images on their TV.

 

It's a different story in games: you're the main character, this is your story, and so it should look as lifelike as possible. Most video games are not meant to be cinematic. That's why real-time cutscenes are being utilized more and more often in them as opposed to having pre-rendered video files for everything (which probably run at some standard frame rate).

Edited by TheSkeletonMan939
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