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First off, let me preface this by saying that I know this is not canon, nor will it ever be. This is just something fun I've been thinking about for a while now.

 

So, the Kakama increases the user's speed, while the Vahi speeds up or slows down time around the user. Everyone else moves at the same speed, unless you are sharing your Kakama Nuva with your friends.

 

BH_Orange_Kanohi_Vahi.png        Adapted_Kakama.png

 

 

Both the Kakama and the Adapted Kakama Nuva have a similar design to the Vahi, at least on their lower areas. Also note that Pohatu suddenly changed to orange for the appearance with the most Vahi-like mask.

 

 

 

So could they be the same mask? Is the Vahi just a Kakama variant, or vice versa?

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The Kakama doesn't speed up time relative to the user, just speeds you up. You experience time at the same speed (unless you count the effect of time dilation.) It's less a time-related effect and more about a really specific application of strength (making you go fast).

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They are not the same mask, no. But if we look at characters like the Flash from DC, we know that speedsters have the potential to tap into time-related abilities. So, it's certainly not the same effect, but I would say they do operate on a similar plane, yes. The design thing is just a happy accident.

 

 

The Kakama doesn't speed up time relative to the user, just speeds you up. You experience time at the same speed (unless you count the effect of time dilation.) It's less a time-related effect and more about a really specific application of strength (making you go fast).

That isn't entirely true. The regular Kakama, yes. The Nuva version, though, speeds up the mind's perceptive abilities, making it seem like the world is moving slower around the user. While it isn't specifically slowing down time, it would be perceived as a similar effect--again, like how the Flash can speed up his reactions and mental and vocal processing to be able to communicate with other speedsters in the heat of battle. Say Tahu were using the Vahi to slow down time. Pohatu simultaneously uses his Kakama. Because the mask speeds up Pohatu's perception, it might be enough to counter the effects of the Vahi for a short time.

 

So, while it's not actually a time-manipulator, it isn't entirely separate, if you see what I'm getting at.

Edited by T1Shadow: The Artisan
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Erm, Kakama only affects the user, though. The Vahi affects everyone's perception of time in an area, plus the slowing down feature, unlike the Kakama who only speeds up. 

 

The power sharing of the Nuva version might bring them closer together, but even then you can only share it with people you know about. The Vahi speeds up or slows time for the entire universe or a localized area, and can be used on objects to age them, etc.  It's a more detailed power with a wider applicability. 

Edited by fishers64

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Erm, Kakama only affects the user, though. The Vahi affects everyone's perception of time in an area, plus the slowing down feature, unlike the Kakama who only speeds up. 

 

The power sharing of the Nuva version might bring them closer together, but even then you can only share it with people you know about. The Vahi speeds up or slows time for the entire universe or a localized area, and can be used on objects to age them, etc.  It's a more detailed power with a wider applicability. 

The Vahi affects whoever the user chooses to affect (or is capable of affecting).

 

Power-sharing has nothing to do with this, though. We're talking about how the Nuva version speeds up the mind as well as the body, as seen when Gali used the mask in Chronicles #4. I'm saying that because of that feature, the Kakama Nuva could potentially counteract the Vahi's slowing down of time, even if only for the user.

 

So, not true time-manipulation, but still on the same playing field.

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I noticed that when I got the set in the January of 2008 from Shop@Home. They're completely different masks because that's been canon from the very start, though the designs I'm not quite sure of. I think the Adaptive-Kakama Nuva looking like the Vahi was just a coincidence. The idea of the Adaptive version having the windshield was probably done to make it more aerial-like, making it resemble the Vahi even more.

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One theory (a theory I like very much) stems from the Adaptive Hau. In set, the Hau Nuva is used as Trinuma's Mask of Charisma. The theory is that the Adaptive Kanohi take from a sort of "shape database" and adapt forms that fit the environment. In that case, the Hau took a shape similar to a Mask of Charisma, and the Kakama took on a form similar to the Vahi. That would explain the appearance thing.

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I'm personally convinced that Pohatu Phantoka was originally designed to be a Toa of Time to go with the Toa of Life we got the same year. IIRC, set design happens before story.

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I'm personally convinced that Pohatu Phantoka was originally designed to be a Toa of Time to go with the Toa of Life we got the same year. IIRC, set design happens before story.

You are correct, set design first, story later.


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The Kakama doesn't speed up time relative to the user, just speeds you up. You experience time at the same speed (unless you count the effect of time dilation.) It's less a time-related effect and more about a really specific application of strength (making you go fast).

That isn't entirely true. The regular Kakama, yes. The Nuva version, though, speeds up the mind's perceptive abilities, making it seem like the world is moving slower around the user. While it isn't specifically slowing down time, it would be perceived as a similar effect--again, like how the Flash can speed up his reactions and mental and vocal processing to be able to communicate with other speedsters in the heat of battle. Say Tahu were using the Vahi to slow down time. Pohatu simultaneously uses his Kakama. Because the mask speeds up Pohatu's perception, it might be enough to counter the effects of the Vahi for a short time.

 

So, while it's not actually a time-manipulator, it isn't entirely separate, if you see what I'm getting at.

 

It still seems separate to me. It may have similar results, but it's an entirely different method. The Vahi manipulates time, the Kakama manipulates body.

 

Let me attempt an analogy. Let's say two Toa use their masks to hit a target. One uses a Sanok, the other uses a Calix. Both Toa would be able to use their masks to hit the target, but via different methods; the Sanok guides the target to its mark, while the Calix makes the unlikely possibility of hitting the target possible. Just as you would not say the Sanok is a variant of the Calix, you would not say the Kakama is a variant of the Vahi.

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The Kakama doesn't speed up time relative to the user, just speeds you up. You experience time at the same speed (unless you count the effect of time dilation.) It's less a time-related effect and more about a really specific application of strength (making you go fast).

That isn't entirely true. The regular Kakama, yes. The Nuva version, though, speeds up the mind's perceptive abilities, making it seem like the world is moving slower around the user. While it isn't specifically slowing down time, it would be perceived as a similar effect--again, like how the Flash can speed up his reactions and mental and vocal processing to be able to communicate with other speedsters in the heat of battle. Say Tahu were using the Vahi to slow down time. Pohatu simultaneously uses his Kakama. Because the mask speeds up Pohatu's perception, it might be enough to counter the effects of the Vahi for a short time.

 

So, while it's not actually a time-manipulator, it isn't entirely separate, if you see what I'm getting at.

 

It still seems separate to me. It may have similar results, but it's an entirely different method. The Vahi manipulates time, the Kakama manipulates body.

 

Let me attempt an analogy. Let's say two Toa use their masks to hit a target. One uses a Sanok, the other uses a Calix. Both Toa would be able to use their masks to hit the target, but via different methods; the Sanok guides the target to its mark, while the Calix makes the unlikely possibility of hitting the target possible. Just as you would not say the Sanok is a variant of the Calix, you would not say the Kakama is a variant of the Vahi.

 

Makes sense, but you have to ask--by what means does the Kakama Nuva speed up the user? Since that mask pretty much mirrors many speedster abilities from DC and Marvel, I'm saying we can't rule out the possibility that the Kakama Nuva taps into (very limited) time-related powers to do what it does.


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I dunno, I think there's still a pretty fundamental difference. The Kakama altering the user's perception of time is more of a side effect of the mask's power, which is speed. But as far as I know, the Vahi isn't affecting perception, it literally IS manipulating time itself, which is why it's so dangerous and difficult to control.

 

Like, you could use the Vahi to speed up time around a person, and it will actually age them a hundred years in a matter of seconds. No perceptions, it's literally doing that, as far as I know.


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The Kakama doesn't speed up time relative to the user, just speeds you up. You experience time at the same speed (unless you count the effect of time dilation.) It's less a time-related effect and more about a really specific application of strength (making you go fast).

That isn't entirely true. The regular Kakama, yes. The Nuva version, though, speeds up the mind's perceptive abilities, making it seem like the world is moving slower around the user. While it isn't specifically slowing down time, it would be perceived as a similar effect--again, like how the Flash can speed up his reactions and mental and vocal processing to be able to communicate with other speedsters in the heat of battle. Say Tahu were using the Vahi to slow down time. Pohatu simultaneously uses his Kakama. Because the mask speeds up Pohatu's perception, it might be enough to counter the effects of the Vahi for a short time.

 

So, while it's not actually a time-manipulator, it isn't entirely separate, if you see what I'm getting at.

 

It still seems separate to me. It may have similar results, but it's an entirely different method. The Vahi manipulates time, the Kakama manipulates body.

 

Let me attempt an analogy. Let's say two Toa use their masks to hit a target. One uses a Sanok, the other uses a Calix. Both Toa would be able to use their masks to hit the target, but via different methods; the Sanok guides the target to its mark, while the Calix makes the unlikely possibility of hitting the target possible. Just as you would not say the Sanok is a variant of the Calix, you would not say the Kakama is a variant of the Vahi.

 

Makes sense, but you have to ask--by what means does the Kakama Nuva speed up the user? Since that mask pretty much mirrors many speedster abilities from DC and Marvel, I'm saying we can't rule out the possibility that the Kakama Nuva taps into (very limited) time-related powers to do what it does.

 

I'm pretty sure the means is just like I've always assumed speedsters like the Flash work: they're given the physical capabilities to operate at higher speeds. Their legs can move faster, they can react faster, etc. It's a physical adjustment, not a temporal one.

 

To put it differently: the speed effects of the Kakama cannot be time-related because the only time-related effect they have is that things the user does happen faster, which is the natural result of speed. If you used a Vahi to travel a journey that would take a year in one month, you would be 11 months older than everyone else. If you used a Kakama, you would not.

 

Similarly, in the example you used before, while a user of a Kakama Nuva could theoretically move and think at a normal speed when someone else uses a Vahi to slow down time, it does not affect the speed at which they are moving through time. They still experience time the same way, they just do things faster. The user of the Vahi is the only one who can separate themselves from that flow of time.

Edited by Dina Saruyama
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I just always joked it was the Vahi nuva



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