So, The Great Beings Discovered Super-Intelligent Ai By Accident

[Toa of Nerds]

We learned that the Great Beings were apparently surprised that the matoran ended up intelligent and with emotions and such. But how could that have happened? How could the Great Beings have "accidentally" discovered super intelligent AI. Here on Earth, we've tried for decades to get something like that, and the closest we've come is a computer that can play Jeopardy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watson_(computer)). The idea that something so complex as a computer with actual emotions could be created by accident is just not logical.So if the Great Beings just wanted mindless machines, then why didn't they just create an army of vahki-like creatures that Mata-Nui could command at will? And if that's what they intended, then how could it have gone so wrong? The vahki didn't develop any emotion whatsoever. What are your thoughts?-don't touch my pocket protector

Edited November 27, 2011 by Toa of Nerds

[Lewa Krom]

Well, to be fair, the Great Beings are more technologically advanced than we are, having had a hand in the creation of cyborg wolves, biomechanical dinosaurs, a giant maze that can transform itself into things. So comparing their techology, with ours might not be fair.I think it might have something to do with the fact that it was built out of protodermis. A while back (looking through Planetperson's summaries of OGD), Greg said that protodermis had been derived from energized protodermis, or something to that effect. If protodermis is a "non-toxic" form of energized protodermis, it might still have some qualities that produce unexpected consequences. We know energized protodermis can create/alter life, so it might be safe to say that protodermis radiates some of the effects of energized protodermis at a much weaker rate, taking something that was almost lifelike and giving it a nudge in the direction of life.The Matoran already had minds that were mechanical (not sure if you would call it a mind if it has no emotions, etc. but whatever ), so think of the effects of the radiation of normal protodermis giving a couple extra protons (or is it neutrons... I suck at Chemistry ) to make it Carbon-14. The Matoran were biomechanical so it would make sense for them to have carbon in them to begin with... you know what... I think I'll stop there. I've already overthought this.So yeah, most of that can probably be disregarded as overcomplicating something, but I would believe that protodermis, or at least energized protodermis, had a hand in that.

[Peach 00]

You raise a good point. Then again, if the GBs had intended to do that, there's probably a conspiracy theory that one of them conspired against the rest and created a more intelligent and emotional form of being - why else would they be biomechanical? The Vahki were indeed mindless machines, but the Toa and Matoran are supposedly an organic and mechanical combination. The curious question would be which GB if that theory was true, but it's a bit far-fetched. Nonetheless, that is an interesting question.

[Lewa Krom]

Peach 00 - I wouldn't put it past the Great Being that was hiding in the Matoran Universe. He would have the means, motive, and opportunity to accomplish something like that, after all.

[Peach 00]

Well, that's what I was getting at - if there was one that turned against the rest, that GB would be the prime suspect. Whoever that GB is would be the culprit for creating the Matoran as biomechanical beings, not as robots. I do agree with you, though, I think it was a GB that created the Matoran as a half-organic half-mechanical species.I don't see any other way the Great Beings could have made that mistake without an actual intention carried by one of them to be against the creation of simpleton robots. For of course, in that GB's view, the actual beings who had minds and emotion could create robots themselves, therefore things like the Vahki evolving.

[Erebus]

The Vahki were just machines with no organic composition. They were created by a Matoran. Matoran most likely cannot cannot create a being with both mechanical and organic parts, at least without the use of EP.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Erebus

[Peach 00]

That's what I said - the GB would create the Matoran so the Matoran can make things like the Vahki themselves. I was using the Vahki as an example of a robotic being, as Toa of Nerds did when saying the GBs could have just made an army similar to that of Vahki for Mata-Nui to command.I know of course that they aren't organic beings, but I just using them as an example.

[Dorek]

It's just a theme of stories that has been going on for ages past. Take Jurassic Park. They thought that by making all of the dinosaurs female, they would prevent any new ones from hatching without their assistance. They were very, very wrong. Similar thing happens in Terminator, and the Matrix, or Asmimov's I, Robot; they try and create self-sustaining machines that end up gaining so much awareness that they decide to no longer rely on humans, and then turn upon them. It's the same here: the Great Beings wanted nanotech that could function for hundreds of thousands of years without anybody to help them; they designed these things so well that they eventually gained sapience.

[Lara White]

I suspect that the reason it was possible for them to accidentally create life is because they were so used to working with it and altering it before. They used what they were comfortable with (a mix of technological and biological parts) to create an optimal design, and their design just happened to have the capacity for intelligent thinking (deriving from the intelligence of the Glatorian/Agori basic designs that they used who were, what do you know, intelligent).That being said, deliberate sabotage is also a possibility.

[Simulacrum]

Wow, I never thought of that. First of, as stated before, the great beings are way beyond our intelligence. Thus, we shouldn't compare them to us.And second of all, what if that was their motive? Maybe the added something into the Matoran that allowed them to become different, and the great beings were just suprised that they gained Emotions instead of all the other possiblites.

[toa kopaka4372]

Well, I, for one, think the idea that the Great Beings never intended the Matoran to be intelligent and have emotions has little evidence supporting it. If anything, almost everything we know about the beginning of the Matoran Universe shows that the Great Beings were aware that their creations were capable of individual thought and intelligence. Let me elaborate:Artakha and Karzahni fought over the Mask of Creation, and each was given a land to rule. This shows that the Great Beings knew of their intelligence and capabilities. Also, the Great Beings must've been aware of the creation of the Hand of Artakha, since it was formed when they were still in the Matoran Universe, so they knew that people such as Helryx, Hydraxon, and Axonn were intelligent enough to plan and fight. Helryx was sent to lay down the foundations of Metru Nui a well. All this points to the fact the from the very beginning many in the Matoran Universe were intelligent and had emotions, so they must've been created like that.So, the Great Beings created many of their creations as intelligent and emotional from the very beginning. As for the Matoran, they seem to have had intelligence and emotion from the beginning. Remember the Matoran Civil War? By that time, 79,500 years ago, they were intelligent enough and had emotions passionate enough to drive them to war. Also, since the Makuta have been doing their job since the beginning, they were clearly created being capable of independent thought.Also, let's not forget Lessovikk! He was tormented with guilt for allowing his team to die, meaning he had strong emotions. So thatt's just what I think. Sorry if it was somewhat off-topic, since I didn't answer your question..

Edited November 27, 2011 by toa kopaka4372

[Dralcax]

It's like evolution (And Cleverbot). In case an error was made, the Great Beings programmed the Matoran with the capability to learn from their mistakes. This gradually gave them intelligence and finally sentience.

[Toa of Nerds]

I don't think there would be sabotage. The Great Beings created Mata-Nui to eventually reverse the damage done by The Shattering. I don't think there would be any Great Being that would not want to fix Spherus Magna.But as an extension of my question: why didn't the GB's just create a perfect robot. Mata-Nui had a very specific task. I don't think the matoran needed to think for themselves or anything. Heck, why didn't they just build a giant robot with the powers of Mata-Nui's robot, and just program it to fix Spherus Magna. The whole idea of creating even semi-intelligent robots seems to be a little bit overshooting the intended purpose of the robot.-don't touch my pocket protector

[Erebus]

Maybe creating a perfect robot would take more resources than necessary. The Great Beings could not do everything on their own, so there was some need of Matoran (and other species). The robot also needed to observe other life on other planets, so it was necessary to have Matoran to maintain the robot for however many years.

[Makuta_of_Oz]

I guess the MU inhabitants were intended to be learning robots, so they could become more efficient with time. Over time, they would've become smart enough to develop feelings and the like. Whether that was a glitch or just something the GBs overlooked, it's hard to say.

[Makuta Matata]

My theory is that they were once completely mechanical, but over time, they developed body tissue and stuff like that to help them survive. Either that, or Matoran were created the wrong way after Mata Nui left Spherus Magna, which gave them sentience. Because remember, there were sentient beings in the MU at the time of it's creation, the Matoran just weren't among them.

[Lara White]

Re: making a perfect robot. It's likely that they simply didn't have enough time to make a perfect robot, and instead threw together whatever they could make before the Shattering.

[fishers64]

Matoran Sentience is a pretty steep debate. However, the GBs wanted their creation to survive for 100,000 years, which meant it had to adapt to change. To allow that to happen, they would have to make their creations at least partly organic. This led to emotion (mostly anger at inefficiency, to start)

[Creep Of The Deep]

Why are you comparing the Great Beings to the Human life.I mean, they don't even exist. It's just a story dude, SOMEDAY we may find the way to create intelligent AI, but who knows.

[UltraHau]

That whole "Matoran intelligence was a glitch" thing causes me to shed tears each time I read it. Programming doesn't work that way!

Why are you comparing the Great Beings to the Human life.I mean, they don't even exist. It's just a story dude, SOMEDAY we may find the way to create intelligent AI, but who knows.

As a programmer, I can safely state the chances of humans creating self-sentient AI within the next 50 years is practically %0.

[Toa of Nerds]

Why are you comparing the Great Beings to the Human life.I mean, they don't even exist. It's just a story dude, SOMEDAY we may find the way to create intelligent AI, but who knows.

Yes, I know that real life science doesn't apply in Bionicle, but my point of bringing up our technological advances was to point out how complicated it would be to really program a sentient lifeform. For something so complex, mindblowingly complex really, to happen by accident doesn't seem possible to me. I think the best theory is that the GBs programmed the matoran to be adaptive, and the matoran gradually gained that emotion.-don't touch my pocket protector

[Just A Dot]

Why are you comparing the Great Beings to the Human life.I mean, they don't even exist. It's just a story dude, SOMEDAY we may find the way to create intelligent AI, but who knows.

Yes, I know that real life science doesn't apply in Bionicle, but my point of bringing up our technological advances was to point out how complicated it would be to really program a sentient lifeform. For something so complex, mindblowingly complex really, to happen by accident doesn't seem possible to me. I think the best theory is that the GBs programmed the matoran to be adaptive, and the matoran gradually gained that emotion.-don't touch my pocket protector

Every emotion except for love, apparently...

[toa kopaka4372]

Why are you comparing the Great Beings to the Human life.I mean, they don't even exist. It's just a story dude, SOMEDAY we may find the way to create intelligent AI, but who knows.

Yes, I know that real life science doesn't apply in Bionicle, but my point of bringing up our technological advances was to point out how complicated it would be to really program a sentient lifeform. For something so complex, mindblowingly complex really, to happen by accident doesn't seem possible to me. I think the best theory is that the GBs programmed the matoran to be adaptive, and the matoran gradually gained that emotion.-don't touch my pocket protector

Every emotion except for love, apparently...

No, they developed the emotion of love, just not romantic love.

[Zarohum]

The great beings did a lot of stuff by accident. And the Vahki were active for what, 5,000 years? The matoran were active for at least that long before they started to... oh I see your point.But still, we'd have no story.

[Toanoopie]

I think we also have to take into consideration that GB's view the universe differently. They don't create things with minimal costs and effort the way we do, but have an urge to create for the sake of creating and, I think, show how good they are at doing that. Looking at it that way, it doesn't seem so unlikely that it did indeed happen by accident, or could at least have been caused quite easily by a single individual without the others noticing.

[Guest]

Maybe the Great Beings didn't consciously intend to create sapient species, but what they did intend was something that practically amounts to the same. Their logic seemed to be "We don't want something that can actually think, but it should be able to work all kinds of jobs, plan, learn, solve problems, adapt to all kinds of situations etc. But it shouldn't actually think!" What they ended up with was something that initially was only one step away from sapience and then eventually they took that final step.

[bonesiii]

We learned that the Great Beings were apparently surprised that the matoran ended up intelligent and with emotions and such. But how could that have happened? How could the Great Beings have "accidentally" discovered super intelligent AI. Here on Earth, we've tried for decades to get something like that, and the closest we've come is a computer that can play Jeopardy (http://en.wikipedia....atson_(computer)). The idea that something so complex as a computer with actual emotions could be created by accident is just not logical.

I think right here you're making one key assumption that I believe is probably false -- that their brains are like Vahki brains, just computers. There is a ton of evidence that their brains are either biological like ours (though grown artificially) or something non or partly biological that regardless mimicks the system of biological brains.Secondly, I think we do need to appeal to Bionicle physics being different here.Keep in mind all of this is protodermic, and the artificial version of that is capable of infinite powers. Also, the natural version is alive, in an unknown way, and is involved in the working of the MU. Either or both of these factors may have caused an unexpected transformation into sapience.Also, there's a bit of a common misconception here. The GBs did intend their creations to be imaginative, resourceful, inventive, all traits that are only found in sapient beings. My understanding is that they did intend them to be sapient in most senses, but did not program them to use their own sentience to develop culture.In other words, they most likely DID intentionally (and successfully) create AI through difficult research. They simply did not tell that AI to develop its own societal system. They probably were simply being humble, and not daring to assume they'd been so successful as to achieve free-will AI. Possibly the desire to develop culture did not manifest until the GBs had stopped paying attention, after the bulk of the construction work and the sending off of the robot on its missions had been completed.This would make sense -- the AI would be busy focused on that work. But at that point, they would experience something they hadn't yet -- boredom. It makes total sense the GBs would not know what would happen after that.Also, keep in mind that the Earth history of the difficult road to making artificial life may not be applicable anyways; it's possible it was not as difficult for them, so they may not have needed to understand how it worked as much as we do in order to make it work. They were, after all, as I alluded to above, making an artificial version of a material that was naturally alive to begin with. Maybe something in the artificial structure was closer to the living original than they expected, without them ever actually understanding that structure.This may be especially true if some of the ideas in that current protodermis topic are true. I theorized in a post in there that artificial proto might be made by putting one molecule of existing proto (artificial or EP) into a vat of ingredients, activating an energy forcefield that triggers a self-replication effect, and then letting the proto grow on its own. If so, they wouldn't necessarily understand the molecular form of protodermis.Edit:

But as an extension of my question: why didn't the GB's just create a perfect robot. Mata-Nui had a very specific task. I don't think the matoran needed to think for themselves or anything.

This has actually been known for some time; I should have mentioned it above instead of assuming we all know, lol, sorry. Anyways, if you've had much experience repairing things, as I haven't much but enough to know this -- -- thinking for themselves is vital. Fixing machines can require extentive ability to innovate, when the proper supplies might not be available or unforeseen problems come up. This is why the GBs needed them to have imaginations and creativity. That part of it was not accidental.And IMO those are hallmarks of sapience, so this idea that they created AI accidently is a myth as far as I know. (Also, the term AI isn't really right here -- it means artificial intelligence, which can refer to even low levels of intelligence, and don't encompass emotion or creativity. Even the Vahki are AI.) Edited November 30, 2011 by bonesiii

[ALVIS]

You're missing one crucial point: nothing in BIONICLE is logical. It never has been.I do support two theories I've seen above, though.The first is that the Great Beings simply built the MUans too well. This fits with other silly ideas in BIONICLE. Oh those Great Beings, they never made an experiment that did what they expected it to. I mean, really. Look at all this:1. The baterra resisted their failsafe. Then, when the Great Beings got too creative with failsafes, it turned out the creation didn't need a failsafe at all. Too late -- it escaped onto the planet to kill them all. Well, shucks.2. The Skopio... well, of course they used mega blasters for ill purposes, they're only beasts. What were the Great Beings thinking?3. The prototype robot exploded all over Bara Magna (it must have killed hundreds, if not thousands).4. The Element Lords turned evil and ended up destroying the planet.5. Their krana experiments spawned the Zyglak. Which brings up the question of... how?6. The first Rahi just happened to be savage, evil killers. Why couldn't they make a sheep or something?7. Tren Krom, naturally, wished to continue ruling the MU. So they... stuck him on a rock, and shipped him off in the MU.8. Antidermis spawned the Makuta, who became absolutely evil. (By the way, if they somehow predicted antidermis might become so evil and rampant that they felt they had to make the Golden Armor, why didn't they get rid of it beforehand?)9. Whatever the Kestora have been doing up in the Red Star, it's almost surely not what they were supposed to do.10. And, of course, this whole debate sprang from the accidental creation of an artificial mind and personality. Millions of them.The second good theory is that protodermis, being synthesized out of energized protodermis, imbued the Matoran and other MUans with their very lifelike minds.

[Toa Zaz]

This may be far-fetched (at least by today's standards), but that's an extremely common, almost cliche plot in science fiction, so this isn't too crazy. As for why, maybe the GBs wanted them to have decision-making capabilities exceeding Vahki-level. Or, like someone above said, they've got someone on the inside messing with things...

Edited December 2, 2011 by Toa Zaz

[Dralcax]

You're missing one crucial point: nothing in BIONICLE is logical. It never has been.I do support two theories I've seen above, though.The first is that the Great Beings simply built the MUans too well. This fits with other silly ideas in BIONICLE. Oh those Great Beings, they never made an experiment that did what they expected it to. I mean, really. Look at all this:1. The baterra resisted their failsafe. Then, when the Great Beings got too creative with failsafes, it turned out the creation didn't need a failsafe at all. Too late -- it escaped onto the planet to kill them all. Well, shucks.2. The Skopio... well, of course they used mega blasters for ill purposes, they're only beasts. What were the Great Beings thinking?3. The prototype robot exploded all over Bara Magna (it must have killed hundreds, if not thousands).4. The Element Lords turned evil and ended up destroying the planet.5. Their krana experiments spawned the Zyglak. Which brings up the question of... how?6. The first Rahi just happened to be savage, evil killers. Why couldn't they make a sheep or something?7. Tren Krom, naturally, wished to continue ruling the MU. So they... stuck him on a rock, and shipped him off in the MU.8. Antidermis spawned the Makuta, who became absolutely evil. (By the way, if they somehow predicted antidermis might become so evil and rampant that they felt they had to make the Golden Armor, why didn't they get rid of it beforehand?)9. Whatever the Kestora have been doing up in the Red Star, it's almost surely not what they were supposed to do.10. And, of course, this whole debate sprang from the accidental creation of an artificial mind and personality. Millions of them.The second good theory is that protodermis, being synthesized out of energized protodermis, imbued the Matoran and other MUans with their very lifelike minds.

You forgot Marendar's escape. And that's kind of disturbing, since it would obviously be designed for Toa to be unable to defeat it.

[ZTG]

"Pfffttt, screw logic!"Yea Great Being's might say that. But enough joking, Great Beings are advanced organic life. The Agori, Glatorian, Matoran all their bio-mechanical creations had a glitch, self-awareness, emotion, and self-conciousness. Take the movie WALL-E for example, WALL-E came up with a glitch, his personality, emotion, and self-control, ergo the MU inhabbitants could do the same!

[Space: Ocean of Awe]

First, let me say I'm really quite uneducated, but here goes...Perhaps they programmed the Matoran to adapt, that would certainly make them more efficient. Perhaps their adapting led them down the path of evolution. They start out as robots that learn from their mistakes and experience, and they end up evolving into mechanical beings with emotions, thoughts etc.=)

[bonesiii]

You're missing one crucial point: nothing in BIONICLE is logical. It never has been.

I'm probably nitpicking, being a logician, but as far as I know this is not true. It has always been logical. It's simply partly in the fantasy genre, so it obviously isn't limited by the real world.

[fishers64]

Okay, I am being nitpicky, but this just bugs me...

6. The first Rahi just happened to be savage, evil killers. Why couldn't they make a sheep or something?

Um... the Rahi were made by the Makuta, not by the Great Beings.

7. Tren Krom, naturally, wished to continue ruling the MU. So they... stuck him on a rock, and shipped him off in the MU.

Better than leaving a giant red, blubbery, mind-reading and possibly trouble-causing being on Spherus Magna. It wasn't like he could escape the rock, and even if he did, he couldn't take over the MU. In fact, he turned out to help Mata Nui in the end, and I think was one of the GB's better decisions. You can argue that it was a gamble, but the unexpected consequence turned out good for everyone but Carapar.

8. Antidermis spawned the Makuta, who became absolutely evil. (By the way, if they somehow predicted antidermis might become so evil and rampant that they felt they had to make the Golden Armor, why didn't they get rid of it beforehand?)

The Makuta were created by Mata Nui, not the Great Beings. The Great Beings probably didn't know what effects antidermis would have, and built the Golden Armor as a failsafe in case it went wrong. Unless the Great Beings were entirely unintelligent, they probably thought that the antidermis could serve some positive purpose, or at least there was a possibility of it doing so (remember, when the antidermis talked though Brutaka it said that the Makuta had deviated from what their true purpose was). It was a calculated risk, like Tren Krom.And I really dislike quoting myself, but this is what I think about this whole issue:

The Great Beings, at the beginning, created three beings with sentience at the beginning in at least some form: Artahka, Karzanhi, and Mata Nui. The sentience (at least partially) of Artahka and Karzanhi is evidenced by their competition for the Mask of Creation – both would have to have at least a primitive desire for the Mask. But Artahka and Karzanhi live in isolated realms, influencing select Matoran – Artahka with contentment and creativity, Karzanhi with a sense of hopelessness.But, aside from these isolated realms, the Great Beings left one more X-factor: The Great Spirit Mata Nui.Unlike the complex nanotech that made up the robot body, he would have to be capable of solving Spherus Magna's problems, which would require a high level of intelligence, not to mention keep the body alive (keep in away from imploding planets and exploding stars and out of volcanic baths, for instance).This highly sentient being, not the Great Beings, created the Makuta, a species highly sentient from the beginning. (note the origin of the Makuta was from a highly sentient source, that substance that talks through Brutaka) They were designed to oversee the clockwork mechanisms of Mata Nui so he wouldn't have to, along with the good old Order of Mata Nui.They created Rahi, disorderly beasts, which disrupted the Matoran's work, causing malfunctions. Elimination of the problem by Toa (or others?) allowed work to continue without interruption. This evolved into primitive emotion (Work being done vs. disruption) Innovation to stop this inconvenience followed. Facts associated with efficiency or inefficiency became associated with emotion – emotion with doubt. Toa, holders of power, began to think of new ways to defeat worse challenges. Slowly, these individuals would remove Matoran into justice, away from "laboring in darkness".The only exceptions to this rule would be the Toa Mata/Nuva, who got their sentience from Artahka and the Order of Mata Nui.The Order of Mata Nui may have been given a limited amount of sentience at the beginning (Hand of Artahka) However, their chief responsibility to protect the universe – and to stay secret – probably forced them to adapt to new conditions.

Edited December 14, 2011 by fishers64

[ALVIS]

Okay, I am being nitpicky, but this just bugs me...

6. The first Rahi just happened to be savage, evil killers. Why couldn't they make a sheep or something?

Um... the Rahi were made by the Makuta, not by the Great Beings.

However, the first Rahi - the ones Mavrah "befriended" - the gigantic, size-of-Po-Metru ones were actually created by the Great Beings, before the Makuta existed. I wish I had BS01 handy to cite it, but unfortunately I don't. I am an obsessed enough fan to have read this over many times, though.

7. Tren Krom, naturally, wished to continue ruling the MU. So they... stuck him on a rock, and shipped him off in the MU.

Better than leaving a giant red, blubbery, mind-reading and possibly trouble-causing being on Spherus Magna. It wasn't like he could escape the rock, and even if he did, he couldn't take over the MU. In fact, he turned out to help Mata Nui in the end, and I think was one of the GB's better decisions. You can argue that it was a gamble, but the unexpected consequence turned out good for everyone but Carapar.

Fair enough. I'll concede that one.

8. Antidermis spawned the Makuta, who became absolutely evil. (By the way, if they somehow predicted antidermis might become so evil and rampant that they felt they had to make the Golden Armor, why didn't they get rid of it beforehand?)

The Makuta were created by Mata Nui, not the Great Beings. The Great Beings probably didn't know what effects antidermis would have, and built the Golden Armor as a failsafe in case it went wrong. Unless the Great Beings were entirely unintelligent, they probably thought that the antidermis could serve some positive purpose, or at least there was a possibility of it doing so (remember, when the antidermis talked though Brutaka it said that the Makuta had deviated from what their true purpose was). It was a calculated risk, like Tren Krom.

I'm aware that Mata Nui created the Makuta, but the whole Golden Armor subplot just plain drives me insane. If the GBs were so wise that they could plan out a doomsday weapon as a failsafe for something they hadn't even created, just assumed Mata Nui might, how did they screw up so many other times? (My reasoning is that there's little sense in the GBs not creating the Makuta themselves, but instead programming the instructions into Mata Nui. If they were going to make them, why not make them then and there?)@ Bones: Okay, I was making a bitter hyperbole. True, many elements of BIONICLE made enough sense, but many of them required you to really wrap your head around them like a pretzel in order to understand. The bad apples always stand out more, so that's why I exaggerated.

[bonesiii]

If the GBs were so wise that they could plan out a doomsday weapon as a failsafe for something they hadn't even created, just assumed Mata Nui might, how did they screw up so many other times? (My reasoning is that there's little sense in the GBs not creating the Makuta themselves, but instead programming the instructions into Mata Nui. If they were going to make them, why not make them then and there?)@ Bones: Okay, I was making a bitter hyperbole. True, many elements of BIONICLE made enough sense, but many of them required you to really wrap your head around them like a pretzel in order to understand. The bad apples always stand out more, so that's why I exaggerated.

Mmmm. Well, is the above statement another example of that? Because what would you list as GB screwups? Much of what fans tend to assume were mistakes were subtle destiny strategies. It seems GBs designed a highly adaptive destiny system into the MU/giant robot / perhaps protodermis itself.It's quite possible they designed this destiny system, and also gave themselves a readout of it, similar to the scenario in Person of Interest, where they could get very simplified answers from it, without seeing all the reasoning that went into it. They could learn that the Golden Armor was necessary, but not necessarily know why.Also, most advanced science fiction and science fantasy (the latter being Bionicle's genre, basically) intentionally sets out to create pretzel logic, so that you can have a universe as complex as the real one. Real-life physics and other stuff are often just as complex if not more so, and seemingly convoluted until really understood well. That helps make it an interesting universe where there are always mysteries to investigate and stimulating discussions about it to be had, versus something so easy to understand it's boring.

[Stryker055]

I always chalk stuff like this up to the Great Beings being not totally right in the head and half the stuff they did was for the science lulz.