What if there'd only been 4 Toa?

[Blastcage]

Originally, Alan Swinnerton created 4 Toa...Lewa, Onua, Gali, and Tahu, completing the traditional 4 elements. Kopaka and Pohatu were created later. So what if Kopaka and Pohatu had never been created and LEGO had stuck with the 4 classic elements? Aside from the obvious, what sort of impacts would this have had? How would the series evolved differently? Would Gali be in control of water and ice? Would Onua be in control of earth and stone? Or would we have inevitably seen occasional Toa of stone and ice eventually anyways? There's a ton of questions running through my head, but that's too many to ask. I asked a few to get everyone's brain juices flowing. We're basically discussing alternate history here, so this can go down many paths. 

My thoughts are this...with only 4 Toa, each wave of sets would've been smaller, not only decreasing the cost for consumers, but also allowing LEGO to allot a bigger budget to each individual set. This would've allowed for more creativity and variety, and the progression of technology and figure design would've likely been slightly increased compared to our timeline. Certain in-story events would've likely carried out the same, but some would've been altered drastically. Certain characters would be vastly different, and a ton would not even exist at all. Brown sets - if any were made - would have better sales due to novelty and fans not getting tired of the color. Takanuva would be marketed as a 5th Toa instead of a 7th, and LEGO would've likely pushed Takanuva as well as the light element more in order to be able to get the occasional white set out. Characters such as members of the Makuta species or the Barraki that were not tied to a specific element would likely include a brown set and a white set to help differentiate from the previous, element-tied waves. The occasional 6 set wave would still possibly occur every so often for times when LEGO wanted the Toa outnumbered and to give a sense of desperation. This tactic would've most likely been utilized in the search for Takanuva. Each Toa would potentially be more powerful than in our timeline to compensate for the lower numbers. Of course, there's no definitive way to say how exactly it would've turned out, and this is just one potential. But that's the fun of alternate history, there's endless possibilities. Please share your thoughts on how sticking to the 4 traditional elements would've affected Bionicle!

[Bonkle]

Nearly everything would have gone from 6 to 4. Less Toa, less Bohrok, and perhaps Stone and Ice could have been assigned to odd characters like Brutaka or Axonn.

[Toa Imrukii]

I find it ironic that Tahu, Gali, Lewa, and Onua where the original four Toa and they all had four letters in their names, then they introduced Kopaka and Pohatu, with two rather redundant elements, and both ironically have six letters in their names.

[Lyichir]

Well, my brothers and I might not have been able to split our collections as effectively, for one thing. With six Toa (and six of most other canister sets), each of us could get two (titan sets also tended to helpfully come in groups of three). If there had been only four Toa, it'd be much harder to split the sets up evenly—one of us would basically be forced to have one more figure per wave than the rest of us.

[Blastcage]

Nearly everything would have gone from 6 to 4. Less Toa, less Bohrok, and perhaps Stone and Ice could have been assigned to odd characters like Brutaka or Axonn.

 

I was thinking perhaps Toa like Lhikan and Lesovikk would've ended up with different elements than they did...which honestly should've happened anyways, there were perfect opportunities for Toa of lightning or sound. 

 

Well, my brothers and I might not have been able to split our collections as effectively, for one thing. With six Toa (and six of most other canister sets), each of us could get two (titan sets also tended to helpfully come in groups of three). If there had been only four Toa, it'd be much harder to split the sets up evenly—one of us would basically be forced to have one more figure per wave than the rest of us.

 

Interesting. I never had to split a collection with my brother, so such problems wouldn't have plagued me. In fact, I would've had less problems due to less money being spent and more display space available...unless, of course, more, bigger boxed sets were produced.

[Irrie]

Tahu wouldn't have had any competition for Gali. 

[Bonkle]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: no Kopaka and Pohatu means no Bionicle OTP.

[Blastcage]

Tahu wouldn't have had any competition for Gali. 

 

You sir, have won this thread.

 

In all seriousness, they could've had either Onua or Lewa be Tahu's competition...now that I think about it, there wouldn't have been the Hewkii and Macku relationship either. 

[Sir Kohran]

 

 

Would Gali be in control of water and ice? Would Onua be in control of earth and stone?

 

I'd say yes to both, though I feel that actual cases of Gali controlling ice would've been very few.

 

 

 

with only 4 Toa, each wave of sets would've been smaller, not only decreasing the cost for consumers, but also allowing LEGO to allot a bigger budget to each individual set. This would've allowed for more creativity and variety, and the progression of technology and figure design would've likely been slightly increased compared to our timeline.

 

On the negative side, reducing the number of sets by a third potentially reduces sales and income by a third as well.

[Toa Jaxus]

I don't think that the elements of stone and ice would have just popped into the setting if there had been only four toa, they where only introduced to add two extra characters and had very specific roots in the previous robo-riders and slizers, so as the series progressed, they may not have appeared. My major though is whether or not other elements would arise during the series or would they stick to the main 4?

[MrSciFiGuy]

Not sure about how each individual product would have been developed, but if there was 4 instead of 6, I feel like characterization and teamwork would be more widespread, and easier to naturally write (because let's face it, balancing 6 characters is tricky). The story would be very different and I believe more personal since we can focus on individual characters more.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Less Toa, less Bohrok...

 

And less money for Lego. I bet that's why the number was increased to six.

[Lyichir]

 

Nearly everything would have gone from 6 to 4. Less Toa, less Bohrok, and perhaps Stone and Ice could have been assigned to odd characters like Brutaka or Axonn.

 

I was thinking perhaps Toa like Lhikan and Lesovikk would've ended up with different elements than they did...which honestly should've happened anyways, there were perfect opportunities for Toa of lightning or sound.

 

Gosh, I hope not. If there had been only the four classical elements, that'd be all the more reason to stick with just those instead of introducing so many extraneous elements. They could easily do like Avatar: The Last Airbender and factor lightning powers into another element, or a combination of two, like when Gali and Lewa created a storm with their powers in 2002. Meanwhile, weird non-elemental elements like sonics, magnetism, and gravity would be better off avoided entirely, or at least only used as non-elemental powers for characters or weapons.

[fishers64]

The island of Mata Nui...would not look as cool. It would look like a square...or a Lego brick. 

 

It would be awful. 

[Blastcage]

 

Would Gali be in control of water and ice? Would Onua be in control of earth and stone?

 

I'd say yes to both, though I feel that actual cases of Gali controlling ice would've been very few.

 

 

 

with only 4 Toa, each wave of sets would've been smaller, not only decreasing the cost for consumers, but also allowing LEGO to allot a bigger budget to each individual set. This would've allowed for more creativity and variety, and the progression of technology and figure design would've likely been slightly increased compared to our timeline.

 

On the negative side, reducing the number of sets by a third potentially reduces sales and income by a third as well.

 

 

Not necessarily...more people could've potentially bought all 4 for the sake of completing the collection. They could've been more affordable, or LEGO could've produced more boxed sets. Plus, if less sets resulted in more budget to each set, they could've been more appealing and sold better. Hard to say.

 

I don't think that the elements of stone and ice would have just popped into the setting if there had been only four toa, they where only introduced to add two extra characters and had very specific roots in the previous robo-riders and slizers, so as the series progressed, they may not have appeared. My major though is whether or not other elements would arise during the series or would they stick to the main 4?

 

The elements could've been introduced later on somehow, similarly to how other elements were introduced in our timeline.

 

Not sure about how each individual product would have been developed, but if there was 4 instead of 6, I feel like characterization and teamwork would be more widespread, and easier to naturally write (because let's face it, balancing 6 characters is tricky). The story would be very different and I believe more personal since we can focus on individual characters more.

 

I agree. Characters probably would've been mostly the same, but with more depth, in my opinion.

 

 

Less Toa, less Bohrok...

 

And less money for Lego. I bet that's why the number was increased to six.

 

 

Less characters doesn't always mean less money, but that is a good observation nonetheless .

 

 

 

Nearly everything would have gone from 6 to 4. Less Toa, less Bohrok, and perhaps Stone and Ice could have been assigned to odd characters like Brutaka or Axonn.

 

I was thinking perhaps Toa like Lhikan and Lesovikk would've ended up with different elements than they did...which honestly should've happened anyways, there were perfect opportunities for Toa of lightning or sound.

 

Gosh, I hope not. If there had been only the four classical elements, that'd be all the more reason to stick with just those instead of introducing so many extraneous elements. They could easily do like Avatar: The Last Airbender and factor lightning powers into another element, or a combination of two, like when Gali and Lewa created a storm with their powers in 2002. Meanwhile, weird non-elemental elements like sonics, magnetism, and gravity would be better off avoided entirely, or at least only used as non-elemental powers for characters or weapons.

 

 

True, Tahu with lightning powers would've been extremely interesting! ...If not slightly frightening, lol. So how would you feel about Takanuva and the Bohrok-Kal and Rahkshi if they'd stuck to the 4 classical elements? Better yet, do you think those story arcs would've still happened, as they did in our timeline, or perhaps not happened at all?

 

The island of Mata Nui...would not look as cool. It would look like a square...or a Lego brick. 

 

It would be awful. 

 

Lol, not necessarily...an icy mountainous region and a desert region could still exist, they just wouldn't have specific tribes, and perhaps not be as large.

 

I just thought about this...taking away ice and stone would've drastically changed the Mask of Life trilogy! No Matoro sacrifice or any of his story...no ridiculous Hewkii color scheme change! The Piraka wouldn't have had their inventor...dear lord, I feel like somebody - perhaps myself? - should re-write the G1 story with some of the information taken from this thread...loving you guys' input BTW! Seeing others' thoughts on this subject is very interesting to me.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

 

The island of Mata Nui...would not look as cool. It would look like a square...or a Lego brick. 

 

It would be awful.

 

Lol, not necessarily...an icy mountainous region and a desert region could still exist, they just wouldn't have specific tribes, and perhaps not be as large.

 

I just thought about this...taking away ice and stone would've drastically changed the Mask of Life trilogy! No Matoro sacrifice or any of his story...no ridiculous Hewkii color scheme change! The Piraka wouldn't have had their inventor...dear lord, I feel like somebody - perhaps myself? - should re-write the G1 story with some of the information taken from this thread...loving you guys' input BTW! Seeing others' thoughts on this subject is very interesting to me.

 

Why? Of an elemental nation of people (prescribed to the four classical elements), there could be a couple of tribes that make it up. Like, some Onu-Matoran living underground, while others lived atop with the arid plains and deserts. Same thing with water: some could live in aquatic environments, others lived in in arctic ones. One that lived in the mountains and could control ice could very well learn to control liquid water, but would rather stick to his or her culture's element. Also, instead of being gender exclusive, these tribes could have a gender majority but still have both.

[Sir Kohran]

 

 

Not necessarily...more people could've potentially bought all 4 for the sake of completing the collection.

 

If these people were also willing to buy all six Toa for the sake of collection completion, as I'm sure plenty did, then that's still a third of income that Lego would miss out on.

 

 

 

Lol, not necessarily...an icy mountainous region and a desert region could still exist,

 

Well, each of the six environments belonged to a specific Toa who spent most of their time there, so it wouldn't make sense to have 'empty' environments that belonged to no Toa, unless new Toa were introduced for them later.

 

 

 

I just thought about this...taking away ice and stone would've drastically changed the Mask of Life trilogy! No Matoro sacrifice or any of his story

 

Couldn't Matoro simply have belonged to a different element? A character's existence doesn't depend solely on their element.

[fishers64]

Why? Of an elemental nation of people (prescribed to the four classical elements), there could be a couple of tribes that make it up. Like, some Onu-Matoran living underground, while others lived atop with the arid plains and deserts. Same thing with water: some could live in aquatic environments, others lived in in arctic ones. One that lived in the mountains and could control ice could very well learn to control liquid water, but would rather stick to his or her culture's element. Also, instead of being gender exclusive, these tribes could have a gender majority but still have both.

It's possible. (Also a cheap excuse to make female ice fisherwomen canon, so hey. ) But if we're going to have that, why not differentiate them further and make elements of ice and stone? That will be easier for kids to remember. 

 

I liked that the tribes were tied to specific regions directly, because it made things easier to remember and reinforced how artificial/weird/unique the place was. Different from the real world where everything is all mixed up. 

[believe victims]

The island of Mata Nui...would not look as cool. It would look like a square...or a Lego brick. 

 

It would be awful. 

...no, I'm pretty sure it'd still look like a face.

[Blastcage]

 

Not necessarily...more people could've potentially bought all 4 for the sake of completing the collection.

 

If these people were also willing to buy all six Toa for the sake of collection completion, as I'm sure plenty did, then that's still a third of income that Lego would miss out on.

 

 

 

Lol, not necessarily...an icy mountainous region and a desert region could still exist,

 

Well, each of the six environments belonged to a specific Toa who spent most of their time there, so it wouldn't make sense to have 'empty' environments that belonged to no Toa, unless new Toa were introduced for them later.

 

 

 

I just thought about this...taking away ice and stone would've drastically changed the Mask of Life trilogy! No Matoro sacrifice or any of his story

 

Couldn't Matoro simply have belonged to a different element? A character's existence doesn't depend solely on their element.

 

 

Good points. Matoro's existence doesn't depend solely on his element, but I was really meaning to say that his story/character aspects possibly would've ended up on another character, I guess. As for empty environments, I could've worded that better...they'd be part of the other environments? Deserts and icy mountains are just natural, I guess. And on the income thing...that's hard to really say for certain.

[dotcom]

I'm not sure how true or at least relevant the "but they would have gotten less money!" angle is. I mean, by that logic, wouldn't it have then been better to have eight Toa? Or ten? Or whatever? I don't think it's that simple, honestly (I assume that the number of six is something Lego arrived at through careful thinking and testing, but this being the era of haphazard business practices for the company, who can really say). Things would have definitely been different from a marketing and sales perspective if they had stuck with four, but I don't think it'd be as simplistic as to say they would have just lost a third of the money they made.

 

Especially considering that brown never really sold that well.

 

Definitely would have been pretty interesting, though.

[Aanchir]

It is an interesting thing to think about, that's for sure. For instance, if there had been just four Toa, three-Toa fusions like the Toa Kaita would not have been possible. So what kind of combination models might there have been? A pair of two-Toa fusions? A single four-Toa fusion? Maybe even both (like the McToran sets that could form both a Matoran Kaita and a Matoran Nui)?

Better character development for the Toa might have been a possibility if they didn't have to compete so much for screen time. But at the same time, that depends not just on the amount of characters but the amount of media they have to split between them. And for all we know, if there had been fewer sets, LEGO might have also dedicated less media to promoting them. Other LEGO themes with four-character teams have been System themes, which means they generally do not have a 1:1 relationship between the number of characters and the number of sets. But since Bionicle is a constraction theme, fewer characters per wave would probably have meant fewer sets per wave.

 

Also, needless to say, as long as one of the tribes was still female, it would have probably meant better gender ratios for the theme as a whole. On the other hand, given that the reason for those poor gender ratios is toy industry concerns that female action figures won't sell as well as male ones, LEGO might have been more reluctant to include a female Toa in a team of just four heroes. Other themes that began with four-character teams (Knights Kingdom, Exo-Force, Ninjago) have only included girls or women as secondary characters, if at all. In Ninjago specifically, Nya didn't become an actual ninja until this year, at which point the ninja WERE a team of six.

[Blastcage]

I'm not sure how true or at least relevant the "but they would have gotten less money!" angle is. I mean, by that logic, wouldn't it have then been better to have eight Toa? Or ten? Or whatever? I don't think it's that simple, honestly (I assume that the number of six is something Lego arrived at through careful thinking and testing, but this being the era of haphazard business practices for the company, who can really say). Things would have definitely been different from a marketing and sales perspective if they had stuck with four, but I don't think it'd be as simplistic as to say they would have just lost a third of the money they made.

 

Especially considering that brown never really sold that well.

 

Definitely would have been pretty interesting, though.

 

The lack of mainline brown sets were perhaps make brown sets be more of a novelty if they were produced on occasion. I also wonder if LEGO would experiment with different color combos more or less than they did/do in our timeline.

 

It is an interesting thing to think about, that's for sure. For instance, if there had been just four Toa, three-Toa fusions like the Toa Kaita would not have been possible. So what kind of combination models might there have been? A pair of two-Toa fusions? A single four-Toa fusion? Maybe even both (like the McToran sets that could form both a Matoran Kaita and a Matoran Nui)?

 

Better character development for the Toa might have been a possibility if they didn't have to compete so much for screen time. But at the same time, that depends not just on the amount of characters but the amount of media they have to split between them. And for all we know, if there had been fewer sets, LEGO might have also dedicated less media to promoting them. Other LEGO themes with four-character teams have been System themes, which means they generally do not have a 1:1 relationship between the number of characters and the number of sets. But since Bionicle is a constraction theme, fewer characters per wave would probably have meant fewer sets per wave.

 

Also, needless to say, as long as one of the tribes was still female, it would have probably meant better gender ratios for the theme as a whole. On the other hand, given that the reason for those poor gender ratios is toy industry concerns that female action figures won't sell as well as male ones, LEGO might have been more reluctant to include a female Toa in a team of just four heroes. Other themes that began with four-character teams (Knights Kingdom, Exo-Force, Ninjago) have only included girls or women as secondary characters, if at all. In Ninjago specifically, Nya didn't become an actual ninja until this year, at which point the ninja WERE a team of six.

 

I feel as though Gali would've still been female since water is generally associated with women in media like this. The point on character development and amount of media is an interesting one I hadn't thought of much. Kaita had slipped my mind completely though! Perhaps they wouldn't have been included at all, which would result in some sections of the story being entirely different.

 

Another thing that has occurred to me is, would having less Toa mean the Turaga would potentially have had larger roles? As is, we never saw them use their elemental powers...perhaps with 4 Toa, the 4 Turaga would have? I'm thinking perhaps they would have.

[Petewa]

It's best not to think about those kinds of things.

[Guardian Legend]

I was unaware of this. But in practical terms, as already mentioned, it would have equaled less money for Lego. As for the story, I assume Earth would end up controlling stone as well, and Water encompassing ice. I'm glad they added Kopaka and Pohatu though. Kopaka adds a much need rivalry and competition forTahu, and Pohatu comradery for all. 

[Blastcage]

It's best not to think about those kinds of things.

 

Any reason? Aside from the headaches that alternate history can cause, of course.

 

I was unaware of this. But in practical terms, as already mentioned, it would have equaled less money for Lego. As for the story, I assume Earth would end up controlling stone as well, and Water encompassing ice. I'm glad they added Kopaka and Pohatu though. Kopaka adds a much need rivalry and competition forTahu, and Pohatu comradery for all. 

 

Interesting point. Those character traits could've been put onto other characters, but it's important nonetheless. If Onua and Gali had expanded powers, chances are Tahu and Lewa would've as well, being able to control lightning and jungle, respectively. Although perhaps those could be powers they would've gained after their Nuva transformations? Hmm...

[Petewa]

 

It's best not to think about those kinds of things.

 

Any reason? Aside from the headaches that alternate history can cause, of course.

 

The main two reasons are that, A: I wouldn't've gotten back into Bionicle if not for Pohatu, and B: The OC I named this account after is a Po-Toa. And I'd rather not imagine what my personal relations to the internet would've been had I not joined BZPower.

[Sir Kohran]

 

 

As for empty environments, I could've worded that better...they'd be part of the other environments? Deserts and icy mountains are just natural, I guess.

 

Connecting a desert to the earth element is easy enough, but a snowy mountain really doesn't fit with water at all. 

 

I'm not sure how true or at least relevant the "but they would have gotten less money!" angle is. I mean, by that logic, wouldn't it have then been better to have eight Toa? Or ten? Or whatever? I don't think it's that simple, honestly (I assume that the number of six is something Lego arrived at through careful thinking and testing, but this being the era of haphazard business practices for the company, who can really say). Things would have definitely been different from a marketing and sales perspective if they had stuck with four, but I don't think it'd be as simplistic as to say they would have just lost a third of the money they made.

 

Especially considering that brown never really sold that well.

 

It wouldn't have been better to have a huge number of Toa sets, because most people don't have infinite money to spend on them all. Too many sets might cause Lego to lose money from spending so much making them all then not making enough back to cover all the cost. I think this sort of happened in the first year; the Rahi sets weren't bought not just because they were expensive but because most people had already spent a lot getting the six Toa.

 

It's a balancing act between having enough sets to make a lot of money but not having so many that a lot aren't bought.

[Blastcage]

 

As for empty environments, I could've worded that better...they'd be part of the other environments? Deserts and icy mountains are just natural, I guess.

 

Connecting a desert to the earth element is easy enough, but a snowy mountain really doesn't fit with water at all. 

 

I'm not sure how true or at least relevant the "but they would have gotten less money!" angle is. I mean, by that logic, wouldn't it have then been better to have eight Toa? Or ten? Or whatever? I don't think it's that simple, honestly (I assume that the number of six is something Lego arrived at through careful thinking and testing, but this being the era of haphazard business practices for the company, who can really say). Things would have definitely been different from a marketing and sales perspective if they had stuck with four, but I don't think it'd be as simplistic as to say they would have just lost a third of the money they made.

 

Especially considering that brown never really sold that well.

 

It wouldn't have been better to have a huge number of Toa sets, because most people don't have infinite money to spend on them all. Too many sets might cause Lego to lose money from spending so much making them all then not making enough back to cover all the cost. I think this sort of happened in the first year; the Rahi sets weren't bought not just because they were expensive but because most people had already spent a lot getting the six Toa.

 

It's a balancing act between having enough sets to make a lot of money but not having so many that a lot aren't bought.

 

 

Snowy mountain doesn't fit water well enough? True, not many snowy mountain ranges are close to the coast...some volcanoes have snow on their tops, but we'd wanna avoid a clashing of fire and ice, I guess. What about an environment resembling that of Alaska, Greenland, or Antarctica? Or perhaps a village much like the water villages in Avatar: The Last Airbender? Something like that could work, in theory. Glad you brought that up.

 

We've pretty much covered how having only 4 elements would make the Toa different...let's talk villains! If we'd only gotten 4 elements, how would our villain teams be affected, or would they be? I'd say we'd have only gotten 4 Bohrok and Bohrok-Kal, but perhaps 6 Rahkshi to up the stakes in the search for Takanuva. Vahki and Visorak would've likely stuck to 4 as well, and the Piraka, Barraki, and Makuta could've potentially had 6 to make the Mask of Life trilogy more intense. Only having 4 Piraka would be very interesting though, as it would make their need to work in tandem that much more important...perhaps they'd also have been slightly less dysfunctional. Out of the 3 Ignika trilogy villain waves, the Piraka wave is the one that most likely would've stayed at 4, in my opinion.