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Mask of Undeath: Completely Useless?


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*snippety snip*

 

Look, i get that since you've sorta said by now these masks being included was your idea, you'd be pretty quick to defensd them. but honestly, sometiems an idea just isn't a good one, not all are.

 

it seems your logic behind undeath was a mask looked like a zombie face, and your logic behind biomechanics was "it's already a strong theme of bionicle", which, really aren't sound concepts for mask powers. especially such outlandish ones.

 

@shielding: i don't recall it ever not being a bubble-shield that the mask summons when you choose it to. not sure where the "when you see an attack, suddenly shield" thing is from. ?:

 

@conjuring: i've opened this can of worms before, you already know why i hate this particular worm-can mask. :t

 

@undeath: so lets say a piraka blasted you with his multi-cannon, your head's still on, okay. but lets say you come back up and you're, oopsie, still in front of the piraka's multi-canon, and now you're double dead. that's not too useful a mask power because A: you need to be dead to use it, B: you can only use it once for your one first death, and C: it can only achieve one task, which leaves your zombie pretty weak to anything that would usually get in the way of that task.

 

sorry for dragging on like this but i can't see much to your argument that isn't related to these being your ideas. :0

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it seems your logic behind undeath was a mask looked like a zombie face, and your logic behind biomechanics was "it's already a strong theme of bionicle", which, really aren't sound concepts for mask powers. especially such outlandish ones.

I don't think they're outlandish -- we have control over minds, over elemental powers, etc., and biomechanics being such a theme makes it an obvious connection to make to add to that list. Undeath had been featured before as well, and the theme made sense with Karzahni and the look of the mask. And unless you can prove they didn't have similar ways of inspiring the other masks (or show that this somehow matters), that's just speculation about "aren't sound concepts." Most authors I've heard talk about the sources of their inspiration agree it can come from anything, like the shape of a tree or two ideas they happened to have at the same time and combine them. Most fiction is apparently imagined this way, so far as I've heard writers say!

 

The powers are sound IMO, what's subjective is WHICH of the many possible sound powers happened to get picked, and as the shapes we saw are basically a random selection from the shapes that would exist, even totally random power assignments would be technically valid.

 

Except it seems to me that maskmakers would probably want the shapes to somehow evoke the meaning of the power. Speed looks streamlined, for example, Kaukau looks like scuba gear, Shielding has a "ring" shape for the mouth, etc. -- or the Mask of Aging looks like an old guy. :P

 

@shielding: i don't recall it ever not being a bubble-shield that the mask summons when you choose it to. not sure where the "when you see an attack, suddenly shield" thing is from. ?:

Again, did you not read my whole post? I mentioned the repulsive version was from MNOG (it also showed something clearly going through it when attacked from behind even though it was activated, which the MOL version doesn't look likely to do but wasn't shown so unclear; based on the original description, sounds like probably attacks would go through, but either theory could fit).

 

I don't understand the question in the second sentence here. Are you asking where the original description was? It was one of the original comics, but probably was also in set bios and the like.

 

@undeath: so lets say a piraka blasted you with his multi-cannon, your head's still on, okay. but lets say you come back up and you're, oopsie, still in front of the piraka's multi-canon, and now you're double dead.

Assuming it hits your head or maims you enough before you overtake him. But let's say somebody attacks a Hau user completely by surprise from the back. Of course all these powers have downsides, so there's always ways to defeat them. Say somebody sees Vakama's shadow, etc.

 

sorry for dragging on like this but i can't see much to your argument that isn't related to these being your ideas.

Again, most of them were not my ideas, or were only slightly modified from ideas that weren't. That's the whole point of choosing major themes from existing canon!

 

 

Edit: For what it's worth, there's no need to apologize. You often don't seem to realize it, but I and staff in general encourage criticism, as it often is constructive. I think much of your criticisms don't work, but when you actively think critically, you'll probably eventually find real problems like your good point about Mask of Fusion. That's why I always tried to keep criticism topics open whereas before I was staff they usually got closed due to flaming, etc. I just think you need to think critically more "in reverse" too -- criticize the criticisms, and again and again until the most reasonable idea emerges. :) With practice it will become almost automatic and you'll see things highly accurately, in my experience. ^_^

Edited by bonesiii
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i'm 200% confused now because you keep acting like in undeath you'd somehow be stronger (hence my comment/question about how it can "gary-stu" iteself to the goal) despite the initial and official description accepted being you are only, and soley revived for one specific task, not a bunch of smaller tasks like beating up piraka, it says, "one goal" like retrieving the holy mask of mcguffin. and hoping no piraka are in your way there.

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I don't see what's confusing about sword sticking out of Barbossa making him harder to kill?

 

Edit: Okay, it sounds like you're saying you're interpreting the "last objective" as ANY goal no matter how small, so defeating one bad guy in front of you would become your objective. I definitely didn't see it that way, but if your mission was to defeat Makuta, for example, obviously any challenges that come up along the way to doing that, it will do what it can (whatever would logically be possible) along the way, but you wouldn't take on new missions afterward. And if the brain was there, as mentioned earlier (which is likely), it would draw on any knowledge you had that would help along the way.

 

The idea of including the mission limitation was to help add to the balance as without the RS, if you charged it up for millenia, you might be undead for millenia (assuming nothing else disables you), which IMO would have been going too far. As it turns out, in most situations the RS will already handle this, but we didn't know that at the time, and it still would come into play outside the MU.

Edited by bonesiii
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The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

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MU inhabitants need to breathe, right? Here's a theoretical justification for the Mask of Undeath;

 

Say some Toa manages to get outside the MU knowingly. They'd take along a MoU so that they can return to the MU if they die out there. After which the RS can revive them properly.

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Assuming they happened to know the big secret about their world traveling through space. :P (Of course, if they knew a way out, they might have witnessed this, and went back to think about how to deal with it.) Edit: And assuming they focus on "getting back inside" as their main objective, which if you realize you're suffocating, it probably would become even if you did have an important mission out there. :shrugs: But that probably means whatever that other objective is would be abandoned rather than being a mere hurdle to getting inside.

Edited by bonesiii

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

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I just suggested it as an idea. I'm sure there are other situations where the MoU would be necessary.

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Hold up... Why are you guys talking like the RS doesn't work for beings outside the MU? I thought it was established that it takes them up from anywhere, so long as they're within the RS's range. Or was that retconned, too?

 

[Edited.] the great lord Greg retcons what he pleases, no matter the reprecussions or outcomes.

Edited by bonesiii
Edited out an insult, though it may have been meant in jest. -bones

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It only works in the MU, and apparently certain places in the RS itself (if memory serves). I don't offhand recall it ever being said otherwise, so not sure that was a retcon; I recall it being a major unknown for a while that was finally pinned down. Could be misrememberifying. :P

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

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It only works in the MU, and apparently certain places in the RS itself (if memory serves). I don't offhand recall it ever being said otherwise, so not sure that was a retcon; I recall it being a major unknown for a while that was finally pinned down. Could be misrememberifying. :P

I remember it being said that it works from the outside, thus affecting the beings and rahi on the island Mata Nui, as well as Voya Nui. After all, it took up the body of Hydraxon, who was outside the Pit when Takadox killed him. If it was said that it only works INSIDE the MU, then it must be new info that no one announced.

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Hydraxon died inside the Pit, not outside. Note: it's being inside the giant that counts; whether that's "Matoran Universe" is debated -- to be clear. The RS has its sensors attuned to the giant's interior (meaning inside the "skin"). Nobody was supposed to ever go outside.

 

Also note: this probably could be reprogrammed, and perhaps would have been in later story if it had continued.

 

And just so you know, this is all old news by now. :P I don't know what you have in mind as an announcement (anybody that kept up with the Greg topic would know it now :)), but like I said, a restart of the official RS topic would be a good idea as the info isn't all collected concisely anywhere as far as I know.

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

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Hydraxon died inside the Pit, not outside. Note: it's being inside the giant that counts; whether that's "Matoran Universe" is debated -- to be clear. The RS has its sensors attuned to the giant's interior (meaning inside the "skin"). Nobody was supposed to ever go outside.

 

Also note: this probably could be reprogrammed, and perhaps would have been in later story if it had continued.

 

Well, the Kestora seemed to know there were people on the surface.... Or, at least, the RS itself did. Otherwise it wouldn't have sent the lightning to hit the exact location of the Inika canisters.

 

Point is, I remember it being confirmed that the Matoran on Mata and Voya Nui would have been subject to resurrection by the Star, implying that it worked outside. That being the original verdict on the subject, anything else would have been one of Greg's "forgetful retcons after the fact," right?

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1) The Kestora didn't care. They dissected people at will, etc. -- because they didn't get the "full sapience" update everybody in the MU did. They also didn't seem to be worth much at engineering as they never did figure out how to fix the "Sendback" teleporter, even though they apparently wanted to (as that was part of their job).

 

2) Just FTR, we never did find out as far as I heard whether the RS itself or the Kestora ran the Toa-izer or the motions with respect to constellations.

 

3) I don't recall that (now?), but he may have gone back and forth on that too at first.

 

BTW, this is getting way too off-topic here. :P

Edited by bonesiii

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

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As far as I know, it was always "only people who die in the MU can be revived". This is the one I could find the fastest: 
 

 

 

3. Is Reysa revived?

 
3) Reysa died outside of the MU, so would not have gone to the red star

 

(Source)

 

 
Also: 
 

4. What about the island of Mata Nui? If a being died on it, would they also not get revived?
 
4) Correct

 
Source
 
And: 
 

4. Then, if someone died in the new Pit or Mahri Nui, would they not be revived?
 
4) Correct

 
Source

Edited by fishers64
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(speaking of, wasn't the title "most useless mask" before? or am i imagining things? o: )

It was something like that. But people were misinterpreting that as a question, so I had it changed to reflect what it was actually talking about.

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Well lookatthis. I was going through the Greg topic for RS quotes to actually try to make that new RS topic... and I stumbled on this, which I must have read once but it must not have sunk in:

 

What does the "undead" state currently enjoyed by Sentrakh entail? If he had been killed in the Matoran Universe, would he have been revived on the Red Star?
Thing is, if you are undead, you're not dead and you're not alive, which means you can't go to the red star.

So, apparently the Mask of Undeath would actually delay your body's teleportation up to the Red Star until the effect stopped. So that time delay isn't the only factor (and having the mission limitation proves to have been wise even in the MU).

 

(Whether the Tryna would or not, I'm unsure, but I'd think it would -- which, considering it would only work if somebody wearing that mask was around when you died, could make it a murder-encouraging mask power. Normally you wouldn't find non-Rahi corpses laying around that died a long time ago. Although just the Rahi use is probably enough to make it useful.)

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

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Well lookatthis. I was going through the Greg topic for RS quotes to actually try to make that new RS topic... and I stumbled on this, which I must have read once but it must not have sunk in:

 

What does the "undead" state currently enjoyed by Sentrakh entail? If he had been killed in the Matoran Universe, would he have been revived on the Red Star?

Thing is, if you are undead, you're not dead and you're not alive, which means you can't go to the red star.

So, apparently the Mask of Undeath would actually delay your body's teleportation up to the Red Star until the effect stopped. So that time delay isn't the only factor (and having the mission limitation proves to have been wise even in the MU).

 

Sentrakh was a unique case, however. His "undeadness" was a result of an experiment by TSO, rather than what is described by the MoU's power.

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No, no. Sentrakh was the existing power I meant when I said it wasn't new to the Bionicle universe. It's meant to be the same thing, just with specifics on how its timing works, and the mission thing to keep that relatively tamed in case somebody wears it for a massive amount of time. The type of undeath itself (depending on the injuries) would be like Sentrakh's; neither alive nor dead.

 

(Unless perhaps the brain really was obliterated but somehow the face and mask stay... but that's so unlikely it's almost not worth bothering to mention, heh.)

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

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Returning back to the original Topic Question for a moment, this is how I've been interpreting things so far:

 

Red Star - Currently programmed to only target Protodermis-based, biomechanical beings within the Matoran Universe if and when they die, though not if they were disintegrated, decapitated, or if their brain was otherwise destroyed. Formerly the primary method of revival until the teleporter lost its return function, possibly (potential theory ahead) due to a malfunction possibly caused by Velika making everybody sentient, which wore the device out exponentially faster as it wasn't designed to teleport sentient beings, though masks like the Kualsi or the Olmak remained generally unaffected by this for some reason (Gaardus being the last known functioning example of return process).

Kanohi Revival Imprints - A way to revive beings almost anywhere where they could feasibly survive, within a limited window of time (Jaller; possibly Takanuva, both in MoL).

Kanohi Tryna - Exists because the Red Star completely rebuilds the body of a fallen being from scratch after death (partially explaining the time delay), and works by reconstructing (to the best of its ability anyway) said being's former corpse before the reanimation process (Matoro's usage of it to reanimate Alternate Tuyet at the request of Makuta Teridax).

Mask of Undeath - Exists because the Red Star only downloads a previously updated file containing said being's personality/former memories, which is regularly backed up over certain periods of time (lending credence to the idea that the term "being transported to the Red Star" is likely just another way of saying that someone died, and that the best way to convey that thought in visual media is Disappearing Bodies Syndrome). Since a time lapse occurs with Red Star revivals, and those revived are returned away from the location in which they had previously died, it's reasonable to conclude that a being could return not only too late to fulfill their objective because of said distance issues and passage of time, but without the memory of ever having that last particular objective in the first place. So in other words, just like how the Kanohi Revival Imprints were probably put into place in the event of a Red Star malfunction (the Great Beings did have a tendency to do that sort of thing with their creations, after all), the Mask of Undeath would've likely been originally made to somewhat ensure the accomplishment of relatively immediate goals in the event that they weren't backed up into its bearer's memory before they died.

 

In short, the canon Mask of Undeath itself probably wasn't originally intended for things such as cross-island travel, and since the bearer's last objective would actually likely be finding/building a suitable method of transportation first (since traversing across the ocean floor isn't exactly an option for most beings, not to mention quite possibly the longest method by far), the distance in which the mask's power remains in effect shortens considerably. As such, the effect would also likely deactivate before broader goals (finding the Mask of Life, for example) were even met anyway, since there's almost always multiple objectives building up to their completion and because they can't take on any new objectives under its effect, they would be left to wander arround apparently aimlessly until they eventually burned themselves out. Taking all of this into consideration, proper usage of the Mask of Undeath would only possibly be relegated to a simpler task, or at least one within the bearer's line of sight before death (such as attempting to stop the activation of an island-wide doomsday device or holding off a group of enemies so one's allies could escape), which I personally can see as a pretty useful power to have at one's disposal, even if the bearer in question has to die first in order for it to become active.

Edited by Timageness
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The Asylum, Bionifight Infinite, Year 60,000, Matoran und Panzer, HF RPG 2.0, Wasteland, Corpus Rahkshi, Skyrise

GM Résumé:

Matoran und Panzer (Formerly Appointed Co-GM), Corpus Rahkshi (Former Substitute Co-GM)

 

 

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In short, the canon Mask of Undeath itself probably wasn't originally intended for things such as cross-island travel, and since the bearer's last objective would actually likely be finding/building a suitable method of transportation first (since traversing across the ocean floor isn't exactly an option for most beings, not to mention quite possibly the longest method by far), the distance in which the mask's power remains in effect shortens considerably. As such, the effect would also likely deactivate before broader goals (finding the Mask of Life, for example) were even met anyway, since there's almost always multiple objectives building up to their completion and because they can't take on any new objectives under its effect, they would be left to wander arround apparently aimlessly until they eventually burned themselves out. Taking all of this into consideration, proper usage of the Mask of Undeath would only possibly be relegated to a simpler task, or at least one within the bearer's line of sight before death (such as attempting to stop the activation of an island-wide doomsday device or holding off a group of enemies so one's allies could escape), which I personally can see as a pretty useful power to have at one's disposal, even if the bearer in question has to die first in order for it to become active.

 

so, this mask is only useful if Toa gave a considerably high Exp. reward upon death, basically.

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so, this mask is only useful if Toa gave a considerably high Exp. reward upon death, basically.

 

 

D&D's resurrection spells take a level off the revived character, so I can see that happening.

:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Well, as previously stated above, the Mask of Undeath isn't a pure resurrection device, either. Basically, you only remain in said undead state for as long as you were previously wearing it, as it uses the life force it drains from your body while you're still alive to reanimate you into something probably a little more comparable to the traditional voodoo zombie or the undead a low-level Dragonborn in Skyrim could feasibly resurrect early on in the game instead of the ones seen in popular culture today, and the mask releases its hold on you anyway upon the completion of your last known objective.

So you still eventually end up dead and on the Red Star anyway, it's just that the mask lets your body attempt to finish the last task you considered relatively important when you die the first time, only with lower cognitive functions, more sluggish movement, and probably no access to your other powers. I'm not saying that it's as potentially useful in most everyday situations like some of the other masks (if your last goal was to build yourself shelter before you froze to death, for example, you still wouldn't get to enjoy the temporary reprieve from the elements, as you'd die again just as soon as it was completed), but because Kanohi were originally designed for a non-sapient group of "nanomachines" inside of the GSR, and it was likely that their only objectives back then were work related (forcing beings to continue their tasks before they can get their deadly injuries repaired probably puts the Great Beings in the running for the the Universe's Worst Employer Award), beings that wear them in the Bionicle universe can still get a little extra mileage out of that specific mask, so its power still justifies its existence in the end.

That, and it's powers are almost perfectly suited for the mind-controlled/previously programmed minions of your not-so-friendly neighborhood necromancer. What kind of villain wouldn't want a group of controllable puppets that continued to serve them after their inevitable demise, especially ones that they could then raise from the dead yet again through the usage of a Tryna in the event that they get taken out of the fight?

Edited by Timageness

Epics: 

Hero Factory: Contagion

RPG Characters:

BZPRPG Characters

RPG History:

The Asylum, Bionifight Infinite, Year 60,000, Matoran und Panzer, HF RPG 2.0, Wasteland, Corpus Rahkshi, Skyrise

GM Résumé:

Matoran und Panzer (Formerly Appointed Co-GM), Corpus Rahkshi (Former Substitute Co-GM)

 

 

Feel free to shoot a PM my way if you're waiting for me to respond to something and I've been taking a while to do so.

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and probably no access to your other powers

Mask powers, correct (since you have to be wearing this mask to stay undead, although there is the overlapping possibility but that's probably not too smart), but elemental powers or Tool powers should work.

 

Otherwise your understanding looks pretty much right-on. :) Although with the above Greg quote, inter-island missions are apparently quite possible if they had spent enough time charging it up before, since it apparently holds off the RS teleportation until the mask releases its user into total death.

The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive)Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants

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The problem is actually location. The RS would not, according to Greg, bring you back to the same place you died, but rather to some other place in the MU to start a new life. The Mask of Undeath would keep you in the same spot, allowing you to finish your task before you died for real. That's it's point. 

 

 

Not the point. The RS is gonna scoop up your dead body and transport it up. The original "you" is still in the body, so if that last objective meant enough to you, you would just take a bit longer in getting around to it. But the point is, would you even have enough time to complete your last objective before the RS scoops up the body? Or does the MoU stall that system? With no explanations to the contrary, the mask is useless.

It depends on how the RS tells if someone is dead. A good way would be a lack of life energy - and the Mask of Undeath stores life energy in it and presumably uses it to reanimate the form of the person. This would delay being reported up, and thus removed. 

 

It's also been considered that the process doesn't happen immediately, like it takes a few days. If one or both of those is true, then it might help to alleviate the third problem.

 

But what of the other two points? Does the amount of life energy affect how long the mask works? And for a mask that is useless while the user is alive, why make them so slow and sluggish after reanimating them? Exactly what sort of things could you accomplish like that in the MU?

 

Because the wearer and other affected things are zombies, and zombies walk around slowly because their organic material is heavily damaged. Oh, and don't forget all the moaning, drooling, arms fixed forward and feet draggin' all Halloween-style. As my obnoxious little brother often says, "3spooky5me".

 

 

OH VANSON!  :superfunny:

 

 

Anyhow. The Mask of Undeath may be useless in retrospect. But it HAILS in comparison to the amount of Uselessness that is the Mask of Death (non-canon, but could exist in theory). It's a one time use mask that both kills your target, but also kills you. How's 'bout that for useless?

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That's actually plausible, since the Mask of Elemental Energy is one-use.

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That's actually plausible, since the Mask of Elemental Energy is one-use.

Except the MoEE has some reasonable use. It recharges the user's powers, whereas a Mask of Death just kills the user and another target. What purpose does that serve, except for someone with a career as a suicide bomber? Use the mask, kill others around you as well as yourself. How would anyone find that useful for maintaining a huge interplanetary robot?

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and probably no access to your other powers

Mask powers, correct (since you have to be wearing this mask to stay undead, although there is the overlapping possibility but that's probably not too smart), but elemental powers or Tool powers should work.

 

Otherwise your understanding looks pretty much right-on. :) Although with the above Greg quote, inter-island missions are apparently quite possible if they had spent enough time charging it up before, since it apparently holds off the RS teleportation until the mask releases its user into total death.

 

Toa Tool powers I can see, as they belong to the weapon, not its user, but I'd reckon that a reduction in cognitive function would negatively impact the bearer's ability to concentrate in order to use powers of their own. Whether or not the effectiveness of said powers would be decreased instead of being entirely unavailable, however, would probably remain a point of debate for some time, as I don't recall the mask's ability ever actually being used in the story.

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The problem is actually location. The RS would not, according to Greg, bring you back to the same place you died, but rather to some other place in the MU to start a new life. The Mask of Undeath would keep you in the same spot, allowing you to finish your task before you died for real. That's it's point. 

 

 

Not the point. The RS is gonna scoop up your dead body and transport it up. The original "you" is still in the body, so if that last objective meant enough to you, you would just take a bit longer in getting around to it. But the point is, would you even have enough time to complete your last objective before the RS scoops up the body? Or does the MoU stall that system? With no explanations to the contrary, the mask is useless.

It depends on how the RS tells if someone is dead. A good way would be a lack of life energy - and the Mask of Undeath stores life energy in it and presumably uses it to reanimate the form of the person. This would delay being reported up, and thus removed. 

 

It's also been considered that the process doesn't happen immediately, like it takes a few days. If one or both of those is true, then it might help to alleviate the third problem.

 

But what of the other two points? Does the amount of life energy affect how long the mask works? And for a mask that is useless while the user is alive, why make them so slow and sluggish after reanimating them? Exactly what sort of things could you accomplish like that in the MU?

 

Because the wearer and other affected things are zombies, and zombies walk around slowly because their organic material is heavily damaged. Oh, and don't forget all the moaning, drooling, arms fixed forward and feet draggin' all Halloween-style. As my obnoxious little brother often says, "3spooky5me".

 

 

OH VANSON!  :superfunny:

 

 

Anyhow. The Mask of Undeath may be useless in retrospect. But it HAILS in comparison to the amount of Uselessness that is the Mask of Death (non-canon, but could exist in theory). It's a one time use mask that both kills your target, but also kills you. How's 'bout that for useless?

 

But pappy, my name is Iaredios, not Son of Van. :(

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Except the MoEE has some reasonable use. It recharges the user's powers, whereas a Mask of Death just kills the user and another target. What purpose does that serve, except for someone with a career as a suicide bomber?

I just said it's plausible, not that it would be highly useful. :P (But I'm guessing it would be used by suicide bomber types, as you said. :lookaround:)

 

How would anyone find that useful for maintaining a huge interplanetary robot?

Well, that's probably not the best argument considering this story had the Matoro sacrifice. A hero might conceivably want to sacrifice themselves to stop a really, really, really bad villain. But main answer would be, who says only good guys make masks?

 

(How did we get on this subject again lol? >_>)

 

Toa Tool powers I can see, as they belong to the weapon, not its user, but I'd reckon that a reduction in cognitive function would negatively impact the bearer's ability to concentrate in order to use powers of their own.

That could work, but it isn't what I had in mind, since that implies you need a brain holding focus on the mask while undead to keep it going, and I had in mind that if the brain WAS completely gone but the face somehow wasn't, the mask itself would still puppeteer the body. There was no scenario in my intention where the undead person could lose focus and the mask would stop working, just on that alone. So, whatever focus would be needed for innate powers, I would see as being available. :)

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Bad wording on my part. Let me try this again...

What I meant to say was that their ability to manifest the powers actually belonging to themselves (both of the elemental variety and otherwise, as Toa aren't the only beings that wear Kanohi), not those accessible via tools or other masks, might be slightly impaired (if they were still present at all upon reanimation) by the reduction of cognitive function. While the decrease in brain activity would normally impact the ability to use Kanohi as well, the Mask of Undeath (upon reading its BS01 description) sounded to me like it became one of those masks where the function is always on upon activation (until, in this case, it runs out of life force to power it, or the last known objective has been completed), rendering this specific point rather moot to an undead bearer as they wouldn't need to concentrate in order to keep the power active, and they'd essentially be killing themselves once again by switching to another Kanohi anyway if the mask itself was indeed the only thing keeping them in their current state.

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You know where this Mask would actually be pragmatic? Bionicle G2. 

 

After all, the Skull Spiders can't take over your undead corpse that way, and you would actually serve your home village for awhile. Could make the difference in a battle of the living versus the undead. 

Well, that's a silly idea. Why use a Mask of Undeath when we know maskless zombies are already a thing? :P

 

 

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honestly. you'd be better off, i dunno, bringing a mask power that would prevent you dying in the first place? like, shielding?

They aren't mutually exclusive. Undeath is only supposed to be worn occasionally when you're pretty sure you're safe. Hau or the like would be the normal mask for somebody who worried about dying. But if that failed, Undeath could mean the difference, if they had a mission they saw as more important than their life (or if they were just really spiteful due to being bad guys etc.).

 

Why would you wear it if you were sure you were safe? Then there would be no point of wearing the mask anyway...

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honestly. you'd be better off, i dunno, bringing a mask power that would prevent you dying in the first place? like, shielding?

They aren't mutually exclusive. Undeath is only supposed to be worn occasionally when you're pretty sure you're safe. Hau or the like would be the normal mask for somebody who worried about dying. But if that failed, Undeath could mean the difference, if they had a mission they saw as more important than their life (or if they were just really spiteful due to being bad guys etc.).

 

Why would you wear it if you were sure you were safe? Then there would be no point of wearing the mask anyway...

 

He means you'd wear it so that it could suck energy out of you, like when you're sleeping. Then, when a battle or something occurs, you make sure you wear the mask so that you might be able to survive for a few extra hours past your death. Which makes no sense at all. Why have a mask that just reanimates you for a while when you could simply wear a Hau to shield yourself from the killing strike or a Kualsi to teleport away from the immediate danger? Dozens of other more useful masks could ensure that you continue to live normally for centuries, rather than just come back as a zombie for a couple days.

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Why would you wear it if you were sure you were safe?

The amount of time you're kept undead is the amount of time you spent wearing it while alive to charge it up. :) (Unless you accomplish your mission first.)

 

So, you charge it up when you're pretty sure you're safe. :)

 

Assuming it's not your only mask. And since Toa see it as immoral, they would almost certainly have a different mask already, and seek this out later if they get a mission they deem more important than their lives or their reputation. They would either keep it in a backpack or use a Suva.

 

Why have a mask that just reanimates you for a while when you could simply wear a Hau to shield yourself from the killing strike

I already pointed out why this doesn't work -- they're not mutually exclusive. (This was part of the quote chain in your post... perhaps you skimmed? :)) You wear the Hau in battle to shield yourself from killing strikes, but since you have to see the danger coming to block it (or teleport away with Kualsi, etc.), you might die anyways if taken by surprise. Then the Mask of Undeath comes in.

 

Edit: Also, we already had tons of masks like that. Variety, man. :D

 

Main reason for edit, though -- I had forgotten whether we said you do have to be wearing the mask when you die. I looked up the original quote, and at least in what we asked Greg, yes, you do. But the idea was you would switch to it as soon as you realized you were dying. It was intended for typical Bionicle battles, where something like an instant sniper shot to the brain would be highly unlikely. Now, if that happened, all your time charging it up would be for nothing... but then the Hau or Kualsi, at least, also wouldn't have helped. Not for the typical sniper headshot, anyways -- there would be other situations where those would work.

 

The original question as I'd asked it also mentioned it would be considered bad luck to wear. So, clearly they would not be waltzing into a battle with that mask already on their face, as we wrote that question. Again it comes back to that they wear it while they're sure they're safe. (And some superstitious types might refuse to ever wear it on that point alone even if they didn't care about the morality of it, like if they were OoMN. Although I kind of doubt Order members would be that superstitious.)

 

Interestingly, there's nothing in the question as we asked it to Greg that actually specified "main mission". That may have come from the EM version of the bio, unsure (we didn't write the BS01 wordings, but they were probably written with the EM bios in mind). All Greg approved was "whatever you would have wanted to do if still alive". And I'm out of time to check right now...

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Seriously though, the only time it would be used would be by someone who doesn't see any value in their own life. Any sane warrior would instead carry items that can ensure their survival in the first place, instead of focusing on their zombie life after death. That's why the mask is somewhat redundant. Its uses are very specific, and wouldn't be used in a majority of situations.

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