When does something go too far?

[Bonkle]

This is something I've been thinking about ever since I saw a review for the First Order Threepio figure. I was very impressed with the amount of detail put into the figure, but I started to think: is this too detailed? Is it less of a minifigure and more... something else? Looking through recent sets, I've seen the frequent use of smooth slope pieces to get better shapes. Now that's cool and all, but sometimes sets feel less like Lego and more like a scale replica. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everything needs to be 2x4s, but I do feel that there is a line Lego has started to wander on the wrong side of.

 

So what are your thoughts? Should things be a bit simpler? Should they continue to make things smoother and add more printing to figures? Or something else?

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

eh figure printing is jsut printing, and really only gets super detailed on Movie-based figures (like threepio)

 

tbh, i feel they've done fine so far, as most pieces that have been introduced so far have many uses and are only slightly less versitile than the old brick-brick.

 

and really, without all these slopes and curves, we'd all still be suck using the old brick-bricks for everything, which is, imo, really limithing for shapes n stuff.

 

as for the future, idk if they can get any sleeker than they're managing right now, Lego has some top-notch model designers, and they really know how to use creative angles to turn simple plates and beams into works of art. o:

[Bonkle]

eh figure printing is jsut printing, and really only gets super detailed on Movie-based figures (like threepio)

I understand that, but honestly I feel that some of the charm of this is lost in translation when updated to this.

 

 

As for your other points, I have no doubts about the versatility of the new pieces, but the more classic cheese slopes just feel more... Lego then today's super-smooth ones.

[Bfahome]

I don't get how it's any less of a minifigure than any other C-3PO minifigure.  The only thing separating any of them from the "classic" figure is a unique head mold.

 

I also don't see the problem with sets being accurate to the source.  Why can't a LEGO set be a "scale replica" of something?  It won't make it any less LEGO.  Compare, for instance, the 1999 Naboo Starfighter with this year's.  The 1999 one is frankly rather ugly compared to the current one, because it looked all blocky while the ship proper was very smooth.  The new one has a smooth look without sacrificing much in the way of build or piece versatility.

 

There's no real reason that LEGO "has to" look blocky outside of what biases people have, which usually take the form of "back in my day"-type complaining.

 

e: I don't think the old C-3PO really has any "charm" on its own.  Sure it reminds me of the "good old days" of being ten years old and in awe of every new LEGO thing, but it's also pretty bland.  Less facial definition, and the only other "C-3PO" thing being the torso print.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Bfahome

[Bonkle]

I don't get how it's any less of a minifigure than any other C-3PO minifigure.  The only thing separating any of them from the "classic" figure is a unique head mold.

 

I also don't see the problem with sets being accurate to the source.  Why can't a LEGO set be a "scale replica" of something?  It won't make it any less LEGO.  Compare, for instance, the 1999 Naboo Starfighter with this year's.  The 1999 one is frankly rather ugly compared to the current one, because it looked all blocky while the ship proper was very smooth.  The new one has a smooth look without sacrificing much in the way of build or piece versatility.

 

There's no real reason that LEGO "has to" look blocky outside of what biases people have, which usually take the form of "back in my day"-type complaining.

Oh, that original fighter is terrible!

 

Maybe I wasn't too clear. A lot of the past sets are extremely ugly. I'm certainly not defending them.

 

And this isn't a nostalgic rant or anything either, I'm just saying that if I want Lego stuff, I expect it to be sorta bricky. If I want a Naboo Starfigher, I'll buy from Hasbro. That's what I'm saying. I feel Lego is sort of leaving itself behind.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Bonkle

[Bfahome]

LEGO isn't just bricks, though.  The company's building toys started out that way, sure, but there's no reason they can't expand upon or past that.  Even minifigures didn't exist for quite a few years, especially not in their current state.  And LEGO wasn't even building toys when it began.  So unless something is so brazenly out-of-nowhere that it can't even begin to fit into what the company was or is doing, then saying that LEGO isn't "itself" anymore is just picking an arbitrary point on the timeline to compare to.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

Well said Bfahome. But I would like to add a mention to 'Constraction' figures. Bionicle doesn't look like the rest of Lego, and if it didn't have the logo everywhere I am certain others wouldn't blink twice to find that it wasn't part of Lego. But it is. Lego is a system of building bricks, that doesn't mean the bricks must by square and blocky but it still must have some assembly required be it square bricks, smooth curvy bricks, and limb 'bricks'.

 

Looking at the comparisons, I don't see what you have to complain about, these newer things are absolutely amazing in comparison to the ones that only came out when I was a kid. That wasn't that long of ago, it's nice to see some technological progress.

[Petewa]

Well said Bfahome. But I would like to add a mention to 'Constraction' figures. Bionicle doesn't look like the rest of Lego, and if it didn't have the logo everywhere I am certain others wouldn't blink twice to find that it wasn't part of Lego.

Bronze was actually surprised to find that BIonicle was Lego, seeing as his only prior knowledge of Bionicle came from the movies and my MOCs.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

 

Well said Bfahome. But I would like to add a mention to 'Constraction' figures. Bionicle doesn't look like the rest of Lego, and if it didn't have the logo everywhere I am certain others wouldn't blink twice to find that it wasn't part of Lego.

Bronze was actually surprised to find that BIonicle was Lego, seeing as his only prior knowledge of Bionicle came from the movies and my MOCs.

 

Bronze?

[Petewa]

 

 

Well said Bfahome. But I would like to add a mention to 'Constraction' figures. Bionicle doesn't look like the rest of Lego, and if it didn't have the logo everywhere I am certain others wouldn't blink twice to find that it wasn't part of Lego.

Bronze was actually surprised to find that BIonicle was Lego, seeing as his only prior knowledge of Bionicle came from the movies and my MOCs.

 

Bronze?

 

Bronze, my brother: http://www.bzpower.com/board/user/114754-bronzejet-kanohi-kakama/

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

 

 

 

Well said Bfahome. But I would like to add a mention to 'Constraction' figures. Bionicle doesn't look like the rest of Lego, and if it didn't have the logo everywhere I am certain others wouldn't blink twice to find that it wasn't part of Lego.

Bronze was actually surprised to find that BIonicle was Lego, seeing as his only prior knowledge of Bionicle came from the movies and my MOCs.

 

Bronze?

 

Bronze, my brother: http://www.bzpower.com/board/user/114754-bronzejet-kanohi-kakama/

 

Oh okay.

[Ford]

I remember seeing a Luke Skywalker minifig that had a head cluttered with details. Even looking at my Ep. III Anakin minifig there's just a little too much. I understand that they want to bring out the face lines, but I think it's just a bit too much at times.

[You just lost the game]

IMO, the more detail the better.

The only thing I'd ask to stay nearly the same, is face details.

They're fine the way they are. lol

[Kopekemaster]

 

 

Is it less of a minifigure and more... something else?

Ah, I know what you mean. Be careful how you follow that road, though; romance with LEGOs isn't something I've had much success with, I'm afraid.

 

Anyway, yeah, I know what you mean, in a couple of ways. I just got a Skull Scorpio set, and was amazed at just how many new molds there were. While I do really enjoy discovering new pieces and imagining ways I can use them, I do wish to some degree that LEGO would, instead, use existing pieces in different ways to do what they need. I realize, of course, that they really do need to make new molds, especially for masks and weapons and feet and stuff like that, but I think you get what I'm meaning.

In regards to minifigures and that kind of thing; I haven't really noticed it too much with minifigures, but one thing I have noticed it with are the battle droids (of various types) from LEGO Star Wars. They seem to continually be getting more and more complicated and detailed, which is fine in its own respect, but it kind of bugs me when a new version of the same "type" barely looks like the original.

[Bonkle]

 

Is it less of a minifigure and more... something else?

Ah, I know what you mean. Be careful how you follow that road, though; romance with LEGOs isn't something I've had much success with, I'm afraid.

 

Anyway, yeah, I know what you mean, in a couple of ways. I just got a Skull Scorpio set, and was amazed at just how many new molds there were. While I do really enjoy discovering new pieces and imagining ways I can use them, I do wish to some degree that LEGO would, instead, use existing pieces in different ways to do what they need. I realize, of course, that they really do need to make new molds, especially for masks and weapons and feet and stuff like that, but I think you get what I'm meaning.

In regards to minifigures and that kind of thing; I haven't really noticed it too much with minifigures, but one thing I have noticed it with are the battle droids (of various types) from LEGO Star Wars. They seem to continually be getting more and more complicated and detailed, which is fine in its own respect, but it kind of bugs me when a new version of the same "type" barely looks like the original.

 

Yeah, for me it's mostly the minifigures. What I love about LEGO is that it's sort of an accessible, easy alternative to the "real" deal. I grew up with Star Wars and loved staging huge battles with tons of LEGO clones and droids, even if they didn't look just like the show. The actual action figures always seemed alien to me, because how could you manage a battle with figures like that? And now we're getting these super-detailed minifigs, and it just seems ridiculous to have so much detailing, but still keep it on this little square dude. And as LEGO starts to look more like the "real" stuff, I wonder why I'm not just buying from regular action figure brands......

Edited October 24, 2015 by Bonkle

[Bfahome]

I still don't understand how the printing on a minifigure could affect your ability to play with it.  Or how the screen-accuracy or detail of a set somehow undermines its value as a LEGO product.

 

(I mean, these seem like really weird points to bring up on a BIONICLE forum.  Especially the one about action figures, given that BIONICLE is literally just LEGO action figures.  Very detailed ones, at that.)

[Aanchir]

Anyway, yeah, I know what you mean, in a couple of ways. I just got a Skull Scorpio set, and was amazed at just how many new molds there were. While I do really enjoy discovering new pieces and imagining ways I can use them, I do wish to some degree that LEGO would, instead, use existing pieces in different ways to do what they need. I realize, of course, that they really do need to make new molds, especially for masks and weapons and feet and stuff like that, but I think you get what I'm meaning.

Kind of an odd set to use as an example. A lot of the criticisms I've seen of this year's Bionicle reboot are from people who feel like there are not enough new parts compared to G1. Skull Scorpio has only four new molds: the mask and blades, shared with Skull Basher, and the torso shell and bones, shared with all the skull villains. They make up eight pieces total, or about 7.5% of the set's inventory. The other 92.5% of the inventory is parts reused or recolored from earlier Technic, Bionicle, Hero Factory, and Legends of Chima sets. The 2015 Bionicle range as a whole introduces 27 new molds across 18 sets, so about 1.5 new molds per set.

 

By comparison, a single Bohrok or Rahkshi included twelve entirely new molds and only eight pre-existing molds. Those new molds made up 22 parts of each Bohrok (54% of their inventory) and 16 parts of each Rahkshi (36% of their inventory). Overall, the 2001l, 2002, and 2003 Bionicle ranges each introduced about 36 new molds across about 24 sets. So again, about 1.5 new molds per set. Note: there were more individual new part designs in these years than there were molds, because one Krana mold produced all eight Krana designs and one Kraata mold produced all six Kraata designs. This is why the shape of a Krana or Kraata was always randomized, while the shape of a Kanohi was only randomized in blind-packaged accessory packs.

 

And in the later years of Bionicle, Barraki Carapar introduced eight new molds that made up 15 parts, or 30% of its inventory. The 2007 Bionicle range as a whole introduced 52 new molds across 20 sets. That's 2.6 new molds per set! And that's not counting the three playsets which introduced nine new molds of their own. The number of new molds getting out of control like that took a huge bite out of the theme's profits in the later years of G1, when sales were already down from their peak in 2002. Obviously, the G2 Bionicle range strives to be a lot more frugal.

 

As for the question in the first posts: in general, no, I don't think the level of detail of minifigures and sets is going too far. Some individual minifigures do get more detailed than usual, but LEGO has settled on some pretty comfortable standards for minifigures over time, and most figs stay about on par with those standards. And when things do get too detailed, they quickly bounce back — last year's Luke Skywalker started to get a little bit too detailed for its own good, but this year his face has been simplified back to about how it was previously.

 

I think some minifigures, even from the licensed themes, could actually stand to be MORE detailed. Original Trilogy Han Solo is still using the classic "male" hair, which is an exceptionally poor fit for his "scruffy-looking" appearance in the actual movies. The Episode 7 version, at least, opts for something that better suits the character.

 

With sets, I think LEGO is defined more by the number and versatility of the parts rather than by some specific look. And even if you do believe there is such a thing as a specific LEGO "look", sets in general are still much more obviously "LEGO" than many AFOL MOCs that go out of their way to hide every exposed stud. There's no denying the new Millennium Falcon looks like a LEGO set, arguably more so than the classic version that used giant quarter-circle elements to create its main shape and a bizarre, chunky windscreen element for its cockpit.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Aanchir

[Kopekemaster]

 

Anyway, yeah, I know what you mean, in a couple of ways. I just got a Skull Scorpio set, and was amazed at just how many new molds there were. While I do really enjoy discovering new pieces and imagining ways I can use them, I do wish to some degree that LEGO would, instead, use existing pieces in different ways to do what they need. I realize, of course, that they really do need to make new molds, especially for masks and weapons and feet and stuff like that, but I think you get what I'm meaning.

Kind of an odd set to use as an example. A lot of the criticisms I've seen of this year's Bionicle reboot are from people who feel like there are not enough new parts compared to G1. Skull Scorpio has only four new molds: the mask and blades, shared with Skull Basher, and the torso shell and bones, shared with all the skull villains.

-trimmed-

I'm not talking specifically about pieces that are new only to that set, I'm just looking at all of the pieces in it that I haven't seen before. I realize some of those may not be "new" as in that they were molded specifically for that set or even that wave, but they're new to me. For example, the 5-long version of this, with an extra hole in the middle. I hadn't seen that piece until I got this set. (Honestly, though, that is a piece I'm glad they made, it will be quite useful.)

The point is, though, it seems that every time I buy a new set, I'm flooded with new pieces. (Not necessarily a bad thing, but still.) I don't remember that happening near as much a few years ago, when I could buy a bunch of different sets and there wouldn't be as many new molds.

 

All this said, though, don't take it as that I don't like new molds. There are a lot of different reasons as to why they're handy. It just seems that sometimes, they're... I dunno. A little over the top, or sometimes even just a way of making the set simpler, which I'm not a huge fan of.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Kopekemaster

[Aanchir]

 

 

Anyway, yeah, I know what you mean, in a couple of ways. I just got a Skull Scorpio set, and was amazed at just how many new molds there were. While I do really enjoy discovering new pieces and imagining ways I can use them, I do wish to some degree that LEGO would, instead, use existing pieces in different ways to do what they need. I realize, of course, that they really do need to make new molds, especially for masks and weapons and feet and stuff like that, but I think you get what I'm meaning.

Kind of an odd set to use as an example. A lot of the criticisms I've seen of this year's Bionicle reboot are from people who feel like there are not enough new parts compared to G1. Skull Scorpio has only four new molds: the mask and blades, shared with Skull Basher, and the torso shell and bones, shared with all the skull villains.

-trimmed-

I'm not talking specifically about pieces that are new only to that set, I'm just looking at all of the pieces in it that I haven't seen before. I realize some of those may not be "new" as in that they were molded specifically for that set or even that wave, but they're new to me. For example, the 5-long version of this, with an extra hole in the middle. I hadn't seen that piece until I got this set. (Honestly, though, that is a piece I'm glad they made, it will be quite useful.)

The point is, though, it seems that every time I buy a new set, I'm flooded with new pieces. (Not necessarily a bad thing, but still.) I don't remember that happening near as much a few years ago, when I could buy a bunch of different sets and there wouldn't be as many new molds.

 

I think you just hinted at a possible reason why you see more "new" molds than you used to. If you're not buying as many sets as you used to, you're probably a lot less familiar with the parts that already exist. The part you mentioned, 11478, actually came out two years ago, and had already been in about 30 different sets from 8 different themes by the time Skull Scorpio came out, but unless you were buying or reading reviews of those themes (especially Technic) it'd be easy not to realize it exists.

 

That's nothing to be ashamed of! Keeping tabs on every single LEGO release is nobody's obligation. I can't tell you how many times as a kid I was excited for a set to include a "new part" or a "new color", only for me to discover later that it had actually been around for quite a while by that point. And to be honest, often a part being new to you is enough to make it feel exciting. Just so long as you don't make the mistake of thinking that seeing a lot of unfamiliar parts means LEGO is going crazy with new molds.

[Kopekemaster]

 

 

 

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I think you just hinted at a possible reason why you see more "new" molds than you used to. If you're not buying as many sets as you used to, you're probably a lot less familiar with the parts that already exist. The part you mentioned, 11478, actually came out two years ago, and had already been in about 30 different sets from 8 different themes by the time Skull Scorpio came out, but unless you were buying or reading reviews of those themes (especially Technic) it'd be easy not to realize it exists.

 

That's nothing to be ashamed of! Keeping tabs on every single LEGO release is nobody's obligation. I can't tell you how many times as a kid I was excited for a set to include a "new part" or a "new color", only for me to discover later that it had actually been around for quite a while by that point. And to be honest, often a part being new to you is enough to make it feel exciting. Just so long as you don't make the mistake of thinking that seeing a lot of unfamiliar parts means LEGO is going crazy with new molds.

Good point, that's probably it. And I must admit, having new pieces (especially Technic/structural ones) is pretty handy and cool sometimes.

[Master Inika]

 

 

 

 

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I think you just hinted at a possible reason why you see more "new" molds than you used to. If you're not buying as many sets as you used to, you're probably a lot less familiar with the parts that already exist. The part you mentioned, 11478, actually came out two years ago, and had already been in about 30 different sets from 8 different themes by the time Skull Scorpio came out, but unless you were buying or reading reviews of those themes (especially Technic) it'd be easy not to realize it exists.

 

That's nothing to be ashamed of! Keeping tabs on every single LEGO release is nobody's obligation. I can't tell you how many times as a kid I was excited for a set to include a "new part" or a "new color", only for me to discover later that it had actually been around for quite a while by that point. And to be honest, often a part being new to you is enough to make it feel exciting. Just so long as you don't make the mistake of thinking that seeing a lot of unfamiliar parts means LEGO is going crazy with new molds.

 

Good point, that's probably it. And I must admit, having new pieces (especially Technic/structural ones) is pretty handy and cool sometimes.

 

I can sympathize with this feeling. For a long time, I thought that the black Rahkshi arms from Kraatu (that unreleased proo set from 2004) were exclusive to it until Krika came out. When I learned about Slizer, I thought it was taken from that. It was fairly recently I learned it was used in the Exo-Toa.

 

A lot of it, I think, is when BIONICLE introduces "new" parts that were actually seen in other themes. The Glatorian life counter is another example for me personally.

[Sumiki]

I honestly love the new C-3PO. The old one always seemed kind of bland to me, and bringing it back unaltered when the rest of what LEGO is doing has been increasingly detailed would have just looked flat-out strange.