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Poll: Consolidating a Few Species


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This is a poll concerning consolidating four species into two.

 

Before you decide your opinion on this proposal, I encourage you to read all the way through the idea. This sort of retconning is the sort that has been called for frequently. However, for those of you who think these sorts of retcons are silly anyway as Generation One ended five years ago, please be polite to those of us for whom Bionicle’s first generation lives on.

 

A short while back, I was scrolling through the “Simplifying the Species List” topic which got me thinking along those lines. (I’ve always been supportive of the idea of less species, especially when I look at BS01’s unnamed species list, but this made me more serious about the idea.) Not long afterwards, I came up with a theory of my own. Various parts of my idea were discussed in the “Simplifying the Species List (again)” topic later on, although none of them reached the full extent of my idea, yada-yada-yada. So without further ado…

 

Behold!!

 

Here’s my theory:

  1. Conjurer is part of the same species as The Shadowed One.
  2. Tyrant is part of the same species as Ancient.
  3. Both of these races are based on the same island.
  4. At some point during the war on Ancient’s home island (which I will refer to as the Ancient War), Tyrant gave up trying to make something of the war. He left the island, found another southern island that he conquered, and harbored plans to add to his kingdom and power.
  5. At some point during the Ancient War, Conjurer gave up trying to make something of the war. He left the island, found another southern island that he conquered, and harbored plans to add to his kingdom and power. (These, of course, were frustrated as Matoran make notoriously poor conquering armies.)

Points Four and Five are not in the order they happened; they are interchangeable.

 

Here’s the evidence:

  1.  TSO and Conjurer both have similar heads and builds. Their race is related to, but not necessarily the same as Krekka’s species.
  2. Ancient and Tyrant both have similar heads, tails, and claw hands (but not Claw Hands J).
  3. The fact that all of them might have been rivals on their island may provide additional reasons why Conjurer and Tyrant are so insolent to The Shadowed One and Ancient.
  4. The fact that powers (and to some extent, anatomy too) vary is of no consequence: anyone in the war may have been experimented on or modified, and that says nothing of the possible accidents that happen in Bionicle.
  5. Both TSO and Conjurer either claims to have or actually have powers of disintegration.
  6. Additionally, Tyrant is impervious to extreme cold and Ancient’s home island is one of “shadows and ice.” Just a thought.

Here are the benefits:

  1. It would consolidate four species into two.
  2. It would increase the significance of both races and also show multiple occurrences of them.
  3. As someone else said when I pitched the idea to Greg Farshtey, it would increase the significance of the war, not leaving it as little more than an insignificant conflict with no effects outside of the one island. Expanding on our knowledge of this war would add depth to the events that would result in the birth of the Dark Hunters. Even the Skakdi civil war had its effects on the rest of the universe—why wouldn’t this?

I’ve run this theory by Greg and he says he’d be fine with it if the community is.

 

Tell me if there’s anything you need clarified. I may edit this proposal to add new information and evidence. Please do not vote until you’re absolutely certain nothing can change your mind. I only recently became a member, but yesterday I was reading through one or two pages of the What’s up w/ the rampant canonization topic, so I’m well aware of the ideas of both sides. I obviously support canonization to a point, but I do see very good arguments against the LMB activity of late. I will try to make a good effort to sway you in support of this. If this actually does work, I have another theory to consolidate races further, but only if this works.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Okay, I'm sorry. Either only Premier members can make polls or something went wrong. Whatever. Consider this not a poll but a proposal.

 

How embarrassing...

Edited by 777stairs
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Well, Tyrant and Ancient were a part of my simplification theory too, but I felt pretty sure Conjurer was a Vortixx until I read this:

3. The fact that all of them might have been rivals on their island may provide additional reasons why Conjurer and Tyrant are so insolent to The Shadowed One and Ancient.

 

And I think it gives something to consider. I see what you mean about them having similar body types (though I think the Shadowed One has a tail...), and I think it could be possible.

 

But does this mean a retcon of the fact that Ancient and The Shadowed One were of the same species?

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Make them all the same species. This is the universe where six-foot tall elemental warriors are the same species as hobbit-sized armoured people and barely-mobile hunched staff holders.

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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Tyrant and Ancient are easily the the same species, the only difference between them is that Ancient is a lot bulkier (and we can assume that is natural variation).

 

However, the fact the Shadowed One has a tail and Conjurer doesn't is too much of a difference for me. Also noting the differences in neck, clawed feet, and torso, I feel they're too unique to merged into one race.

 

 

 

But does this mean a retcon of the fact that Ancient and The Shadowed One were of the same species?


Hey, even better. Make all four of them the same species. Gen 1 had way too many anyway.

 

 

Really??? I know it would be dead easy to make them all one species, but there are some very clear physical differences between them.

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Hey, even better. Make all four of them the same species. Gen 1 had way too many anyway.

 

Really??? I know it would be dead easy to make them all one species, but there are some very clear physical differences between them.

 

Many species are quite variable (humans and dogs are prime examples of that). Even within the mythos, take a look at all the different varieties of Matoran -- they're still all the same species with quite a lot of physical differences. Who's to say that these Dark Hunters haven't had modifications over the years or just that having an extremely variable body shape could just be one of their species's features?

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Hey, even better. Make all four of them the same species. Gen 1 had way too many anyway.

 

Really??? I know it would be dead easy to make them all one species, but there are some very clear physical differences between them.

 

Many species are quite variable (humans and dogs are prime examples of that). Even within the mythos, take a look at all the different varieties of Matoran -- they're still all the same species with quite a lot of physical differences. Who's to say that these Dark Hunters haven't had modifications over the years or just that having an extremely variable body shape could just be one of their species's features?

 

Yes, but with your argument we could say that most Dark Hunters are one species, but they were all mutated / shapeshifters / rebuilt differently by kestora.

I'd be happy to make them one species if it was known that they were mutated and that's why they look so different, but at the moment we know that TSO has a tail because his species does, and Conjurer doesn't because his species doesn't. There is no evidence that an event caused them to become more different if they were originally the same species.

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But does this mean a retcon of the fact that Ancient and The Shadowed One were of the same species?

Hey, even better. Make all four of them the same species. Gen 1 had way too many anyway.

 

But I saw this in some other topic and I looked through several books and ran through BS01. I've seen nothing that says Ancient and TSO are part of the same species. That was why I distiguished them in my post.

 

However, if they actually are part of the same species already, then yes, why not make all four the same.

 

 

Tyrant and Ancient are easily the the same species, the only difference between them is that Ancient is a lot bulkier (and we can assume that is natural variation).

 

However, the fact the Shadowed One has a tail and Conjurer doesn't is too much of a difference for me. Also noting the differences in neck, clawed feet, and torso, I feel they're too unique to merged into one race.

 

 

 

But does this mean a retcon of the fact that Ancient and The Shadowed One were of the same species?

Hey, even better. Make all four of them the same species. Gen 1 had way too many anyway.

 

 

Really??? I know it would be dead easy to make them all one species, but there are some very clear physical differences between them.

You forget, this is war and this is also Bionicle and dozens of mutations and transformations seem to happen whenever the two are in close proximity. :P

 

That is a good point, though. Perhaps TSO used his disintegration eyebeams to remove his tail for disobedience, or just cut it off (he does make a reference to how many arms he's cut off this year in Time Trap). Or maybe when Conjurer first found his staff of disintegration, he accidentally removed his own tail. Knowing him.

 

Now that I think about it, they both either claim to have or actually do have some power of disintegration. I'm going to add that above.

Edited by 777stairs
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Tyrant and Ancient is a no-brainer. The Shadowed one and Ancient are already the same species, and they're so different that we may as well just call it an exceptionally diverse species and include Conjurer. There are any number of reasons why he might have lost his tail, and like Matoran, there could be plenty of individuals or groups who were rebuilt or mutated or whatever else into different forms.

 

And if the species is diverse enough for them, who else might be the same species?
Vegeance, Lurker, Lariska, Jerbraz?

Edited by Takhamavahu
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Hang on a sec. I always thought that that thing on the back of The Shadowed One was a third leg, not a tail. (I mean, I prefer the tail idea, but it does look pretty darn leggy to me...)

Forever remember the Podu


R.I.P. Hahli, Lesovikk, and Ehlek. Died of Green Plastic Syndrome.


Pridaddy will always be with us

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Anotomically, I'm pretty sure it's a tail, but he's always leaning on it in pictures. I always pictured him walking on it like a cane, especialy after he gets aged in Time Trap.

 

I'd beleive the Shadowed One is the kind of person who would give himself a tail just 'cuse, but Tyrant and Ancient both have tails too, so it'd be simpler if it was Conjurer who lost one, rather than the other way around.

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To the original post, you can count my vote in. Four types baaaad, two types gooood!

 

I have never heard of The Shadowed One or Ancient being the same race/species, just them being from the same island. Why do they have to be of the same people? Why can't there have been two races living on the same island/really close archipelago, like Stelt? Or better yet, who says they are both native to the island? Maybe one was born elsewhere, moved to the unnamed island, and lived there for a really long time, while the other was born and raised there.

 

Since this island is unnamed, I shall name it myself! I, Iaredios Paerkenon of Neala, hereby christen this island as Yngaro [een-gah-roh], slightly adjusted from the Maori word for Lost since it was never stated where it is on the map.

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A RUDE AWAKENING - A Spherus Magna redo | Tzais-Kuluu  |  Pushing Back The Tide  |  Last Words  |  Black Coronation  | Blue Man Bound | Visions of Thasos   ن

We are all but grey specks in a dark complex before a single white light

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A few things I think I need to say…

 

The Shadowed One is no stranger to cutting off limbs/extremities/general body parts. In Time Trap on page 24 he said “I believe enough hands have been removed this year.” Given Conjurer’s characteristics, it would make sense that TSO cut off his tail as punishment, so the whole tail thing is not an issue. Had it been TSO who had his tail gone, it would require more hurtles, but as it is, it's not a problem.

 

Nothing canon says Ancient and TSO are the same species. They definitely were from the same island, but I have found says they’re the same species. I’ve looked through the guides, read the books, and examined Biosector01 and nothing specifies they belong to the same race. And while I’m all for consolidating races, I don’t see Ancient and TSO as the same species.

 

That said, if the fandom outweighs me, I won’t object. There are way too many species, and one race is better than four. I just think we can’t make decisions that aren’t logical. :P

 

I do think that the whole notion that TSO is the same race as Ancient is a misunderstanding solidified by the agreement of others. That is said, I will respect and gladly listen to opinions why Ancient is the same race as TSO and I will let myself be swayed if there are solid arguments.

 

Can someone please set up a poll for this? As one can tell by the title of this topic, I was trying to make a poll, but wasn’t able to. Since there seems to be some consensus, I think there could be a poll set up. It doesn’t have to be now, but I think it should happen once this topics gone as far as it will go. If someone does that, please reference this topic.

 

 

I’m sorry if I seem a little pushy in this post; this week has been pretty long. :confused:

 

As always, I support constructive criticism because it allows me to strengthen my idea.

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I'll have to dig to find it but I have absolutely heard Greg say that the Shadowed one and Ancient wre the same species. The person asking was like, "really? they dont look the same." and he said not all species have to look exactly the same, some are very diverse.

While I look, enjoy this post of someone saying the same thing back in 2012. it's the second post from the bottom.
http://www.bzpower.com/board/topic/6349-the-shadowed-ones-and-ancients-homeland/

Edited by Takhamavahu
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On the BS01 page 'Sapient Species/Unnamed Species' it specifically lists Ancient as one of The Shadowed One's race. But admittedly, it doesn't list any sources for that, so   :shrugs:

Forever remember the Podu


R.I.P. Hahli, Lesovikk, and Ehlek. Died of Green Plastic Syndrome.


Pridaddy will always be with us

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Can someone please set up a poll for this? As one can tell by the title of this topic, I was trying to make a poll, but wasn’t able to. Since there seems to be some consensus, I think there could be a poll set up. It doesn’t have to be now, but I think it should happen once this topics gone as far as it will go. If someone does that, please reference this topic.

 

Here you go, bro.

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yeah, BS01 only started citing new information as of like two years ago, so anything from before that you have to dig to find. It was back when Greg used to answer questions directly by PM on BZPower that he said they were the same species, so it must be in one of the old "Official Greg Discussion" topics. BS01 updated the info, but wouldn't have cited it.

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