How did Karzahni get to Mahri Nui?

[Toa of Italy]

 

The being known as Karzahni had journeyed far to reach the watery depths of the Pit. His travels had begun in his own isolated, forbidding realm. There he had encountered six wandering Matoran and attempted to imprison them as he had so many others over the millennia. But these Matoran escaped him, though not before he learned from them about beings much more powerful than he - the Great Spirit Mata Nui and the evil Makuta.

 

Mata Nui was asleep, he learned, and Makuta was presumed dead. That meant there was an opportunity for a brilliant, ruthless leader to seize power. He trailed the Matoran to an island named Voya Nui and watched them transform into more powerful figures called Toa. He witnessed their battles with thieves called Piraka over possession of the powerful Mask of Life. When the Toa journeyed down into the depths of the ocean, Karzahni followed, staying far enough behind that he was not noticed.

 

Reaching the Pit, he had become disoriented as the black waters mutated him. He lost track of the Toa and wandered for some time before chancing on this strange Toa speaking with a Matoran. He didn’t know who this “Lesovikk” was, or why he was here - perhaps searching for the Mask of Life as well? But he had learned enough about Toa in the last few days to know they could be powerful enemies.

 

This quote from Dreams of Destruction is basically all we know about Karzahni's journey from his realm to Mahri Nui. What is says seems pretty straightforward, but there are a number of important it completely fails to deal with.

 

1) Jaller & Co. were travelling in Toa Canisters, which could ghost through solid rock, leaving no trace. How did Karzahni track them and follow them?

 

2) Since Karzahni did not possess the power to teleport, the only ways he could have reached Voya Nui are either by ascending through the Pit or by sailing (or swimming) upon the sea of Aqua Magna from the island of Mata Nui to Voya Nui. The first option would mean that Karzahni passed through the Pit twice, something which the quote implies he did not do.

 

The second option would entail him knowing which island to look for and where to look for it. How did he know the Matoran were heading to Voya Nui? How did he find that island, considering that the Aqua Magna ocean is huge? How did he even know which route to take, since he knew nothing about the universe outside his realm? And how did he get to Voya Nui in time to see the Matoran transform into Toa and their battle with the Piraka? Both routes would be extremely long and dangerous, especially considering the other difficulties Karzahni would have had.

 

3) Karzahni brought his whole Manas army with him: we see it in Into the Darkness. How did he manage that? We've already seen the difficulties he would have had had he made the journey alone. The Manas would have slowed him down enormously and created a whole host of additional problems. Of course, the Manas army could have rendezvoused with him later, which might explain why we didn't see it in the first chapters of Dreams of Destruction. That still doesn't clarify how the crabs knew where to find Karzahni and how they reached it.

 

Any thoughts?

 

[LewaLew]

I believe Botar teleported him to the Pit.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

I always assumed he just had the guy who made the Toa Canisters make him one and then he would travel via that, but that doesn't explain how his makeshift army traveled with him to go get those matoran-turned-toa back. Artakha displayed powers of teleportation, so I wouldn't say it is too much of a stretch to say that Karzanhi has the same abilities.

 

 

I believe Botar teleported him to the Pit.

Why on Aqua Magna would he do that?

[The 1st Shadow]

As to how he tracked them, remember that the Matoran who built the canisters was still there. The canisters would have to have the destinatio programmed in, and since Jaller & Co. presumably had no idea how to do that, then their nameless friend had to have done it. Karzahni could have tortured the information out of him.

 

As for how he actually got there... No idea. (Kapura'd by Iaredios) He could have powers similar to his brother, Artakha, so teleportation might be an answer. We never saw him use it, though, so it's questionable.

 

 

 

I believe Botar teleported him to the Pit.

Why on Aqua Magna would he do that?

He did, but it was after Teridax beat him senseless. Botar came to collect the fallen psycho and drop him off in the Pit. So, correct action, wrong time frame.

[Sharnak the Bohrok Lord]

I always assumed he used the same tunnel that the Toa Metru used to travel to Mata Nui, or at least a similar one near him.

[Pohatu: Uniter of Stone]

This is Karzahni we are talking about. He lives in a land that makes no sense. I would assume he makes no sense either. I assume he just Karzahni'd his way there.

[aldero]

If you ask me, I'd say that Karzahni would have picked up a clue from Hahli that they were travelling to Voya Nui to save the Toa Nuva. Even if Karzahni is reclusive and never leaves his realm, he would, at the very least, have a basic understanding of the Matoran Universe. All he needed was the motivation and reasoning to go to the Southern Continent and he's on his way.

 

Another explanation of mine would be a snippet from a vision projected by Karzahni himself. I'm 97% sure that the defeat of the Toa Nuva and the treacherous journey ahead would be included in a vision of delirium and nightmares witnessed by the Matoran.

[Petewa]

How else do you get to an underwater city? He swam.

[Toa Imrukii]

The great beings. Thats what I say!

[TERIDAX941]

As to how he tracked them, remember that the Matoran who built the canisters was still there. The canisters would have to have the destinatio programmed in, and since Jaller & Co. presumably had no idea how to do that, then their nameless friend had to have done it. Karzahni could have tortured the information out of him.

 

As for how he actually got there... No idea. (Kapura'd by Iaredios) He could have powers similar to his brother, Artakha, so teleportation might be an answer. We never saw him use it, though, so it's questionable.

Actually I'm pretty sure that Toa Canisters go where they're told to go, driven by their passenger's thoughts.

[aldero]

The great beings. Thats what I say!

 

I personally blame the patriarchy... err... the Great Beings!

[The 1st Shadow]

 

As to how he tracked them, remember that the Matoran who built the canisters was still there. The canisters would have to have the destinatio programmed in, and since Jaller & Co. presumably had no idea how to do that, then their nameless friend had to have done it. Karzahni could have tortured the information out of him.

 

As for how he actually got there... No idea. (Kapura'd by Iaredios) He could have powers similar to his brother, Artakha, so teleportation might be an answer. We never saw him use it, though, so it's questionable.

Actually I'm pretty sure that Toa Canisters go where they're told to go, driven by their passenger's thoughts.

 

How would that work? The only other example we've seen before were used by the Mata/Nuva.

 

1) The Mata were asleep in their canisters, not really doing much thinking at all. Still managed to land pretty close to their target.

 

2) Dume prepared the canisters the Nuva used to get to Voya Nui. They were already prepared to go, and the Nuva knew absolutely nothing about the MU, having been only on Daxia and immediately being taken to Karda Nui after their training was complete.

 

Neither of those instances implies that the things travel by thought.

 

Of course, there was the Piraka stealing the Mata's canisters... But Teridax imparted some of his knowledge to them via telepathy, so maybe he subconsciously taught them how to program the things.

 

Now that I think of it, I remember some mention of a control system that Jaller or one of the Piraka used while in their canister. Physical controls with buttons and switches implies that it doesn't run on thought.

[Irrie]

 

As to how he tracked them, remember that the Matoran who built the canisters was still there. The canisters would have to have the destinatio programmed in, and since Jaller & Co. presumably had no idea how to do that, then their nameless friend had to have done it. Karzahni could have tortured the information out of him.

 

As for how he actually got there... No idea. (Kapura'd by Iaredios) He could have powers similar to his brother, Artakha, so teleportation might be an answer. We never saw him use it, though, so it's questionable.

Actually I'm pretty sure that Toa Canisters go where they're told to go, driven by their passenger's thoughts.

 

I've heard this before. I'm not sure where, but I'm pretty sure that it's mentioned somewhere. T1S pretty much summed up all the reasons why it would contradict canon, but I can give you my word that I've read this somewhere.

[fishers64]

In Dark Destiny, Nuparu had to do a programming job to get the Toa canisters to work. Same for the Piraka in the Legacy of Evil. 

 

The Great Beings could've programmed the Mata's originally, and Dume could've programmed the set the Toa Nuva's trip to Voya Nui. 

[The 1st Shadow]

 

 

As to how he tracked them, remember that the Matoran who built the canisters was still there. The canisters would have to have the destinatio programmed in, and since Jaller & Co. presumably had no idea how to do that, then their nameless friend had to have done it. Karzahni could have tortured the information out of him.

 

As for how he actually got there... No idea. (Kapura'd by Iaredios) He could have powers similar to his brother, Artakha, so teleportation might be an answer. We never saw him use it, though, so it's questionable.

Actually I'm pretty sure that Toa Canisters go where they're told to go, driven by their passenger's thoughts.

 

I've heard this before. I'm not sure where, but I'm pretty sure that it's mentioned somewhere. T1S pretty much summed up all the reasons why it would contradict canon, but I can give you my word that I've read this somewhere.

 

If it contradicts canon, then it's not canon.

[LewaLew]

 

 

 

As to how he tracked them, remember that the Matoran who built the canisters was still there. The canisters would have to have the destinatio programmed in, and since Jaller & Co. presumably had no idea how to do that, then their nameless friend had to have done it. Karzahni could have tortured the information out of him.

 

As for how he actually got there... No idea. (Kapura'd by Iaredios) He could have powers similar to his brother, Artakha, so teleportation might be an answer. We never saw him use it, though, so it's questionable.

Actually I'm pretty sure that Toa Canisters go where they're told to go, driven by their passenger's thoughts.

 

I've heard this before. I'm not sure where, but I'm pretty sure that it's mentioned somewhere. T1S pretty much summed up all the reasons why it would contradict canon, but I can give you my word that I've read this somewhere.

 

If it contradicts canon, then it's not canon.

 

Unless GregF forgetcons it.

[Wazdakka]

I think one thing that we're forgetting is that Karzahni is immensely powerful. He's one of the most powerful and oldest beings in the Matoran Universe. He knows how to get around. Karzahni simply followed his prey, using his strength, cunning, and experience to hunt them and remain hidden.